Zoo -- was--Why a firm wants staff with autism

[Guest guest]

"Boundaries" between the labels are artificial; ...for the convenience of non-autistic people trying to understand what autism is.- Bill, dx AS;; ...opinionated

Bill: What are these labels in your opinion?

, trying to learn more

[Guest guest]

To: aspires-relationships Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 11:47:07 PMSubject: Re: Zoo -- was--Why a firm wants staff with autism

,I am not Bill, but I can understand. That is why we need to learn to forgive, I think. (I don't mean ignore, or say that wrong things are OK, by this.)

I think both sides need to learn this. I was listening to Dr Phil one day (I know, I know) but he said something I could relate to. 99.9% of couples divorce at the wrong time when they are angry. That was true for Larry and me and most couples I have know that have been through the process. I agree completely that lots of couples break up 2 fast, & that pride is no good here.

You are so angry that U will use any ammunition to get your way regardless of what side you are on because you really BELIEVE you are the injured party regardless of what any one says. It is part of life and growing up and being caught up in the moment.I think this is true for a lot of people, and that we have 2 learn not 2 do this, even to win 1 argument. I like 2 feel where the other person is coming from- a recent perseveration of mine- and it is new and awesome, in the midst of feeling the sting of being accused, even wrongly accused- and then, I have to react to these feelings of insight- and the other person is affected- and everything changes--- sometimes, the other person does this to me, and then I am delighted and scared lest I do not learn their POV as well, and kill something b4 I learn what it is. What you have written used to be part of life for me, but I have changed in these 2 years, and am continuing to grow- i know we all are, here @ ASPIRES

I don't have any answers other than it has been 3 years since my divorce and Larry, I and our kids just spent 2 great days together. From my perspective? Who can ask for anything more?That's wonderful! U must feel so good about it- I feel it back, right through the email.

Just me.

PS: Saw the Harry Potter movie today with Cass and Britt and felt this must feel like it to have AS? My kids read all the books and have all the DVD's, but I had no frame of reference even though my ASPIE kids tried to fill me in before the movie. I was totally lost till the end when I figured it out and the movie ended. lol Cass said, I have all the DVD's for you. lol I had no frame of reference which this series is based on. I felt AS in an NT world with the roles reversed. I loved the special effects but had problems following the story line. lol Need to do some Harry Potter research!

Welcome to the "Real world"-- as we view it- U are very correct about this. Can I share your story about Harry Potter off-list, names removed?When I see movies, I frequently feel this, so I read the book first when I can, or see it twice. I think it's great that U figured it out @ the end.

[Guest guest]

Hi Bill, I feel that way 2- & 2 make matters worse, there is no partial ordering here- ie it is inconsistent- something very aggravating to the AS mathematician that I am. guess I am opinionated, 2.PS: {OK,. if you really must know, by the Distributive Law, the difference between HFA and AS is HFA - AS = A(HF - S) } = o }From: WD Loughman

To: aspires-relationships Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 12:03:24 AMSubject: Re: Zoo -- was--Why a firm wants staff with autism

Princess wrote:

> Hi Bill,

>

> When you reach what you feel are your limits, just wear a badge

[ snip ]

I understand the rules, ...the mechanisms.

> It is really different there- you would not feel overwhelmed and be

> thought ill of if you did- we would be OK with that. It feels very safe.

*My* safety hasn't ever concerned me.

[ snip ]

> I think that the difference between HFA and AS is in the eye of the

> beholder- do you have an opinion about this?

Yes. IMO, There's no *fundamental* difference among and between any of

the labels along the autism-spectrum. "Boundaries" between the labels

are artificial; ...for the convenience of non-autistic people trying to

understand what autism is.

- Bill, dx AS;; ...opinionated

--

WD "Bill" Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home. earthlink. net/~wdloughman/ wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

Ok Bill you got me thinking... Here's my wanderings though not set in stone

thoughts....(i.e. I'm not yet opinionated on the subject! <g>)

Aren't the labels also for autistic people? Many of us went out and got

diagnosed so as to label ourselves. Maybe I'm alone on this but my

motivation was to find a 'group' that I actually belonged in and/or to find

out why I don't fit in with the people as a whole group. Seems like that's

pretty basic to humans, always wanting to group together with similar people

and giving it a name.

Aren't also the labels necessary for clear communication between people as

to what they are talking about? I mean you wouldn't want professional A to

send an autistic person to professional B only to have the second

professional treating the person for mental illness when what they are is

autistic? (Which come to think of it happens even with labels!) Seems like

you kind of have to have labels for things or there would be complete chaos

in communication between professionals, between patients, between parents,

and all three together? Maybe the point would be that while all agree to

call it something they should understand its just a name for lack of knowing

more?

Also I'm wondering about varying levels of autism. Clearly it would seem

some people have a more severe version of autism... that's not an artificial

boundary?

Jennie - just wondering if I'm missing your point altogether or if I'm

expanding on it... would love to read some more of your thoughts on this

topic

Re: Zoo -- was--Why a firm wants staff with

autism

> Newland wrote:

>>

>> " Boundaries " between the labels are artificial; ...for the convenience

>> of non-autistic people trying to understand what autism is.

>>

>> - Bill, dx AS;; ...opinionated

>>

>> Bill: What are these labels in your opinion?

>

> When you've got a critter before you which *mostly* looks like all the

> other critters around, but which *has* a few interesting differences,

> you begin to assemble all of them into groups.

> Critters in one group seem to you to have characteristics which

> *might* reliably distinguish them from members of another group.

> *For your convenience* in tabulating differences you assign names to

> all the groups. You publish your findings.

> Over time others think your work is important, and they join in your

> efforts. Together, after a bit of arguing, you *all, ...together*

> publish your findings. This becomes a *guide* to further work.

>

> Only a guide; it's NOT the Last Word.

>

> At root, that's what the DSM and ICD are: Lists of agreed-upon groups,

> with agreed-upon names and agreed-upon " characteristics " .

> Agreed-upon, but *artificial* - for the convenience of people in the

> field who need to speak a common (scientific/medical) language.

>

> They can be changed; they have *been* changed several times. They're

> *going* to be changed yet again within a year or so.

>

> All in pursuit of knowledge we *don't yet have*.

>

> As I've said here dozens of times: There are *no objective criteria*

> for *anything* on the autism-spectrum. It's all subjective; merely (for

> now) a convenience.

> There is *no objective reality* (yet) to any of the agreed-upon

> autism groupings. They are artificial; their names only disguise our

> lack of genuine understanding - the lack of objective reality.

>

> Does that help?

[Guest guest]

funny this....."labels"..

im involved now at the moment, in a court case...

a dog which has been classififed as a pit bull type.

over here a pit bull type is an illegal breed.

problem is..there is no objective opinion as to what a pit bull type is....

there is just opinion... but beyond that....

and heres the crux for me.....there is intepretation ..

the good thing about interpretation is......it is open to interpretation....

unless you have an objective test, people are gunna think what they wanna.

calling something,labelling something or analysing something.....is irrelevant.

how you intepret the name, label or analysis is the important thing...

37 m diagnosed AS analysed and interpreted.........then make a conclusion.

>>>> "Boundaries" between the labels are artificial; ...for the convenience>> of non-autistic people trying to understand what autism is.>>>> - Bill, dx AS;; ...opinionated>>>> Bill: What are these labels in your opinion?>> When you've got a critter before you which *mostly* looks like all the> other critters around, but which *has* a few interesting differences,> you begin to assemble all of them into groups.> Critters in one group seem to you to have characteristics which> *might* reliably distinguish them from members of another group.> *For your convenience* in tabulating differences you assign names to> all the groups. You publish your findings.> Over time others think your work is important, and they join in your> efforts. Together, after a bit

of arguing, you *all, ...together*> publish your findings. This becomes a *guide* to further work.>> Only a guide; it's NOT the Last Word.>> At root, that's what the DSM and ICD are: Lists of agreed-upon groups,> with agreed-upon names and agreed-upon "characteristics" .> Agreed-upon, but *artificial* - for the convenience of people in the> field who need to speak a common (scientific/ medical) language.>> They can be changed; they have *been* changed several times. They're> *going* to be changed yet again within a year or so.>> All in pursuit of knowledge we *don't yet have*.>> As I've said here dozens of times: There are *no objective criteria*> for *anything* on the autism-spectrum. It's all subjective; merely (for> now) a convenience.> There is *no objective reality* (yet) to any of the agreed-upon> autism groupings.

They are artificial; their names only disguise our> lack of genuine understanding - the lack of objective reality.>> Does that help?