Guest guest Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Hi , does your mother have instructions to Doctors as to what should, or should not, take place in the event she came to this stage? That would take first place. Has your mother ever verbally expressed a desire to be kept alive artificially? Or is she opposed to it? Would you be keeping her alive to satisfy your own need to keep your mother around as long as possible, because you just can't let go? Or, What is the best for her in the long run? Do you think the longer she endures end stage by being kept alive that she will be totally comfortable? Is she responsive to you? Does she know you? How lucid was she before the pneumonia? Ask your Doctor how long she is expected to live, and also, for another Doctor's opinion. He may very well say no one can answer that. Then, ask him if he would have this done on his own mother if she was in the same condition? Yet, in the end it is up to you girls. My heart goes out to you. I am so sorry. This is all I could think of off the top of my head, but it's a starter. Love a bunch, Imogene Caregiver for my True Texas Gentleman husband of 36 years. He has LBD with Parkinsonism. In a message dated 12/8/2006 9:35:20 PM Central Standard Time, skrabek@... writes: Hi all This will be a difficult e-mail to write. My sisters and I have reached a crossroad with our Mum. One that we had hoped we would not have to deal with yet. Mum was sent to the hospital last week when the NH felt she had aspirated on something (food or saliva) and she required deep suctioning. Mum's white blood cell count was found to be slightly elevated so they admitted her to check for a possible infection. Everything seemed to be checking out and they would be returning her to the NH when her respiration suddenly dropped to 37 (it's supposed to be in the 90's). They put her on oxygen and re-checked for infection and they diagnosed her with pnemonia. She was put on IV fluids and antibiotic and she began to improve. On Tuesday the Dr felt we should have the speech pathologist, Occupational therapist & Physiotherapist come in and evaluate all the things they evaluate. On Wednesday Mum was so sleepy none of the therapists could rouse her enough to do their jobs. The " team " felt that the lack of food had zapped Mum of all her energy so they inserted a temporary feeding tube to get something into her system. The main worry was testing her swallowing reflex. Aspiration in her sleepy state is high risk. With more hand/eye coordination than Mum has shown in months, Mum removed her feeding tube. My sisters and my first thought was that the doctor would just put the tube back in but he is having us re-think everything. He has told us we are faced with 4 choices 1) Put the feeding tube back in, hope she doesn't pull it out (is she trying to tell us something?) 2) Do nothing (not sure what this means) 3) Start feeding her by mouth and take our chances that she will aspirate 4) Have a permanent feeding tube put in (again not sure of what this means) We believe the doctor feels that Mum will not be getting better, that this is the stage of her life with LBD that she has reached. Friends, experts, those who have been through this .... my sisters and I are meeting to discuss our options and come up with our list of questions for the medical staff. If you have any advise, questions we should be asking or just your prayers for Mum and for us as we meet to make decisions they will be greatly appreciated. from Cresswell ON Canada Long distance CG to Margaret (Mum) aged 76 Lives at The Briton House, Memory Floor, Toronto DX Early Onset AD & PD approx. 2002 DX LBD 01/2005 Current Meds: Aricept, LD ASA, Levothyroxin, Calcium Suppl. Was on: Sinemet, Excelon, Seroquel Was given Risperdal in NH for a few weeks (Feb '05) Haldol several times in Hospital Jan 05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Hi all This will be a difficult e-mail to write. My sisters and I have reached a crossroad with our Mum. One that we had hoped we would not have to deal with yet. Mum was sent to the hospital last week when the NH felt she had aspirated on something (food or saliva) and she required deep suctioning. Mum's white blood cell count was found to be slightly elevated so they admitted her to check for a possible infection. Everything seemed to be checking out and they would be returning her to the NH when her respiration suddenly dropped to 37 (it's supposed to be in the 90's). They put her on oxygen and re-checked for infection and they diagnosed her with pnemonia. She was put on IV fluids and antibiotic and she began to improve. On Tuesday the Dr felt we should have the speech pathologist, Occupational therapist & Physiotherapist come in and evaluate all the things they evaluate. On Wednesday Mum was so sleepy none of the therapists could rouse her enough to do their jobs. The " team " felt that the lack of food had zapped Mum of all her energy so they inserted a temporary feeding tube to get something into her system. The main worry was testing her swallowing reflex. Aspiration in her sleepy state is high risk. With more hand/eye coordination than Mum has shown in months, Mum removed her feeding tube. My sisters and my first thought was that the doctor would just put the tube back in but he is having us re-think everything. He has told us we are faced with 4 choices 1) Put the feeding tube back in, hope she doesn't pull it out (is she trying to tell us something?) 2) Do nothing (not sure what this means) 3) Start feeding her by mouth and take our chances that she will aspirate 4) Have a permanent feeding tube put in (again not sure of what this means) We believe the doctor feels that Mum will not be getting better, that this is the stage of her life with LBD that she has reached. Friends, experts, those who have been through this .... my sisters and I are meeting to discuss our options and come up with our list of questions for the medical staff. If you have any advise, questions we should be asking or just your prayers for Mum and for us as we meet to make decisions they will be greatly appreciated. from Cresswell ON Canada Long distance CG to Margaret (Mum) aged 76 Lives at The Briton House, Memory Floor, Toronto DX Early Onset AD & PD approx. 2002 DX LBD 01/2005 Current Meds: Aricept, LD ASA, Levothyroxin, Calcium Suppl. Was on: Sinemet, Excelon, Seroquel Was given Risperdal in NH for a few weeks (Feb '05) Haldol several times in Hospital Jan 05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 /Ed: I think by " do nothing, " they mean not to give food or water, which was the decision I had to make a month ago regarding my husband, which I reluctantly did. It was on the advice of the medical profession and Hospice, who believed that continuing to treat him for the UTIs, aspiration pneumonia, the fact that he could no longer do anyting nor respond to much of anything but pain, and did not know anyone, even me. It was a horrible decision to make, one that I don't think I would ever make for someone again, but I know it was best in the long run, as he was miserable, sick, and had absolutely no quality of life. I assume the feeding tube they put in that she took out was through the nose, and I know why she would pull that out, as I had one after surgery, and they are miserable. The permanent one would go directly into the stomach, I believe. From what I have heard, that just buys them some time, and I have heard that if it has to be removed, or when the time comes, it is worse than it would have been had they not had it. The other option, to try to feed her and have her aspirate again, would probably be the easiest decision to make (but, I'm not advocating any one of these, please understand). If the disease follows its usual course, she probably won't want to eat or drink much, as that is the body's shutting down process of the disease. Her food can be pureed and her liquids thickened to help the swallowing. I feel for you and your sisters to have to make this decision and wish you well in what you do decide. --- /Ed wrote: > Hi all > > This will be a difficult e-mail to write. My > sisters and I have > reached a crossroad with our Mum. One that we had > hoped we would not > have to deal with yet. > > Mum was sent to the hospital last week when the NH > felt she had > aspirated on something (food or saliva) and she > required deep > suctioning. Mum's white blood cell count was found > to be slightly > elevated so they admitted her to check for a > possible infection. > Everything seemed to be checking out and they would > be returning her > to the NH when her respiration suddenly dropped to > 37 (it's supposed > to be in the 90's). They put her on oxygen and > re-checked for > infection and they diagnosed her with pnemonia. She > was put on IV > fluids and antibiotic and she began to improve. On > Tuesday the Dr > felt we should have the speech pathologist, > Occupational therapist & > Physiotherapist come in and evaluate all the things > they evaluate. On > Wednesday Mum was so sleepy none of the therapists > could rouse her > enough to do their jobs. The " team " felt that the > lack of food had > zapped Mum of all her energy so they inserted a > temporary feeding tube > to get something into her system. The main worry > was testing her > swallowing reflex. Aspiration in her sleepy state > is high risk. > > With more hand/eye coordination than Mum has shown > in months, Mum > removed her feeding tube. My sisters and my first > thought was that > the doctor would just put the tube back in but he is > having us > re-think everything. He has told us we are faced > with 4 choices > > 1) Put the feeding tube back in, hope she doesn't > pull it out (is she > trying to tell us something?) > 2) Do nothing (not sure what this means) > 3) Start feeding her by mouth and take our chances > that she will aspirate > 4) Have a permanent feeding tube put in (again not > sure of what this > means) > > We believe the doctor feels that Mum will not be > getting better, that > this is the stage of her life with LBD that she has > reached. > > Friends, experts, those who have been through this > .... my sisters > and I are meeting to discuss our options and come up > with our list of > questions for the medical staff. If you have any > advise, questions we > should be asking or just your prayers for Mum and > for us as we meet to > make decisions they will be greatly appreciated. > > from Cresswell ON Canada > Long distance CG to Margaret (Mum) aged 76 > Lives at The Briton House, Memory Floor, Toronto > DX Early Onset AD & PD approx. 2002 > DX LBD 01/2005 > Current Meds: Aricept, LD ASA, Levothyroxin, Calcium > Suppl. > Was on: Sinemet, Excelon, Seroquel > Was given Risperdal in NH for a few weeks (Feb '05) > Haldol several times in Hospital Jan 05 > > ________________________________________________________________________________\ ____ Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Hi , My heart goes out to you. This is a very difficult time for your family and a difficult situation that you face. I think we all hope that we will not be in the situation of having to make these types of decisions, but we have had to make many decisions along the way. I pray for you to have peace of mind, an inner strength, support from those around you and comfort in your love. When my father was accepted into Hospice, they gave me a booklet which was helpful to read, as it gave me an additional perspective. has it in our links, but you can reach it below. It discusses many of the issues you face. http://www.hospicenet.org/html/choices.html Also, get the input from the doctors and discuss it. The longer I go through this journey, the more I learn. Take your time. My thoughts are with you. Daughter of Bill, 91 > > Hi all > > This will be a difficult e-mail to write. My sisters and I have > reached a crossroad with our Mum. One that we had hoped we would not > have to deal with yet. > > Mum was sent to the hospital last week when the NH felt she had > aspirated on something (food or saliva) and she required deep > suctioning. Mum's white blood cell count was found to be slightly > elevated so they admitted her to check for a possible infection. > Everything seemed to be checking out and they would be returning her > to the NH when her respiration suddenly dropped to 37 (it's supposed > to be in the 90's). They put her on oxygen and re-checked for > infection and they diagnosed her with pnemonia. She was put on IV > fluids and antibiotic and she began to improve. On Tuesday the Dr > felt we should have the speech pathologist, Occupational therapist & > Physiotherapist come in and evaluate all the things they evaluate. On > Wednesday Mum was so sleepy none of the therapists could rouse her > enough to do their jobs. The " team " felt that the lack of food had > zapped Mum of all her energy so they inserted a temporary feeding tube > to get something into her system. The main worry was testing her > swallowing reflex. Aspiration in her sleepy state is high risk. > > With more hand/eye coordination than Mum has shown in months, Mum > removed her feeding tube. My sisters and my first thought was that > the doctor would just put the tube back in but he is having us > re-think everything. He has told us we are faced with 4 choices > > 1) Put the feeding tube back in, hope she doesn't pull it out (is she > trying to tell us something?) > 2) Do nothing (not sure what this means) > 3) Start feeding her by mouth and take our chances that she will aspirate > 4) Have a permanent feeding tube put in (again not sure of what this > means) > > We believe the doctor feels that Mum will not be getting better, that > this is the stage of her life with LBD that she has reached. > > Friends, experts, those who have been through this .... my sisters > and I are meeting to discuss our options and come up with our list of > questions for the medical staff. If you have any advise, questions we > should be asking or just your prayers for Mum and for us as we meet to > make decisions they will be greatly appreciated. > > from Cresswell ON Canada > Long distance CG to Margaret (Mum) aged 76 > Lives at The Briton House, Memory Floor, Toronto > DX Early Onset AD & PD approx. 2002 > DX LBD 01/2005 > Current Meds: Aricept, LD ASA, Levothyroxin, Calcium Suppl. > Was on: Sinemet, Excelon, Seroquel > Was given Risperdal in NH for a few weeks (Feb '05) > Haldol several times in Hospital Jan 05 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 (((((HUGS))))) and prayers headed your way! I am terribly sad you are faced with this. Follow your heart. Diane > > Hi all > > This will be a difficult e-mail to write. My sisters and I have > reached a crossroad with our Mum. One that we had hoped we would not > have to deal with yet. > > Mum was sent to the hospital last week when the NH felt she had > aspirated on something (food or saliva) and she required deep > suctioning. Mum's white blood cell count was found to be slightly > elevated so they admitted her to check for a possible infection. > Everything seemed to be checking out and they would be returning her > to the NH when her respiration suddenly dropped to 37 (it's supposed > to be in the 90's). They put her on oxygen and re-checked for > infection and they diagnosed her with pnemonia. She was put on IV > fluids and antibiotic and she began to improve. On Tuesday the Dr > felt we should have the speech pathologist, Occupational therapist & > Physiotherapist come in and evaluate all the things they evaluate. On > Wednesday Mum was so sleepy none of the therapists could rouse her > enough to do their jobs. The " team " felt that the lack of food had > zapped Mum of all her energy so they inserted a temporary feeding tube > to get something into her system. The main worry was testing her > swallowing reflex. Aspiration in her sleepy state is high risk. > > With more hand/eye coordination than Mum has shown in months, Mum > removed her feeding tube. My sisters and my first thought was that > the doctor would just put the tube back in but he is having us > re-think everything. He has told us we are faced with 4 choices > > 1) Put the feeding tube back in, hope she doesn't pull it out (is she > trying to tell us something?) > 2) Do nothing (not sure what this means) > 3) Start feeding her by mouth and take our chances that she will aspirate > 4) Have a permanent feeding tube put in (again not sure of what this > means) > > We believe the doctor feels that Mum will not be getting better, that > this is the stage of her life with LBD that she has reached. > > Friends, experts, those who have been through this .... my sisters > and I are meeting to discuss our options and come up with our list of > questions for the medical staff. If you have any advise, questions we > should be asking or just your prayers for Mum and for us as we meet to > make decisions they will be greatly appreciated. > > from Cresswell ON Canada > Long distance CG to Margaret (Mum) aged 76 > Lives at The Briton House, Memory Floor, Toronto > DX Early Onset AD & PD approx. 2002 > DX LBD 01/2005 > Current Meds: Aricept, LD ASA, Levothyroxin, Calcium Suppl. > Was on: Sinemet, Excelon, Seroquel > Was given Risperdal in NH for a few weeks (Feb '05) > Haldol several times in Hospital Jan 05 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Hi , I am very sorry for the difficult position you now find yourself in. Thankfully you are going into this time armed with knowledge and the support of family, what sounds like a caring doctor and hospital team. Know that whatever you decide will be done with love and your mother's best interest at heart. Don't second guess yourselves. Please keep in touch. > > Hi all > > This will be a difficult e-mail to write. My sisters and I have > reached a crossroad with our Mum. One that we had hoped we would not > have to deal with yet. > > Mum was sent to the hospital last week when the NH felt she had > aspirated on something (food or saliva) and she required deep > suctioning. Mum's white blood cell count was found to be slightly > elevated so they admitted her to check for a possible infection. > Everything seemed to be checking out and they would be returning her > to the NH when her respiration suddenly dropped to 37 (it's supposed > to be in the 90's). They put her on oxygen and re-checked for > infection and they diagnosed her with pnemonia. She was put on IV > fluids and antibiotic and she began to improve. On Tuesday the Dr > felt we should have the speech pathologist, Occupational therapist & > Physiotherapist come in and evaluate all the things they evaluate. On > Wednesday Mum was so sleepy none of the therapists could rouse her > enough to do their jobs. The " team " felt that the lack of food had > zapped Mum of all her energy so they inserted a temporary feeding tube > to get something into her system. The main worry was testing her > swallowing reflex. Aspiration in her sleepy state is high risk. > > With more hand/eye coordination than Mum has shown in months, Mum > removed her feeding tube. My sisters and my first thought was that > the doctor would just put the tube back in but he is having us > re-think everything. He has told us we are faced with 4 choices > > 1) Put the feeding tube back in, hope she doesn't pull it out (is she > trying to tell us something?) > 2) Do nothing (not sure what this means) > 3) Start feeding her by mouth and take our chances that she will aspirate > 4) Have a permanent feeding tube put in (again not sure of what this > means) > > We believe the doctor feels that Mum will not be getting better, that > this is the stage of her life with LBD that she has reached. > > Friends, experts, those who have been through this .... my sisters > and I are meeting to discuss our options and come up with our list of > questions for the medical staff. If you have any advise, questions we > should be asking or just your prayers for Mum and for us as we meet to > make decisions they will be greatly appreciated. > > from Cresswell ON Canada > Long distance CG to Margaret (Mum) aged 76 > Lives at The Briton House, Memory Floor, Toronto > DX Early Onset AD & PD approx. 2002 > DX LBD 01/2005 > Current Meds: Aricept, LD ASA, Levothyroxin, Calcium Suppl. > Was on: Sinemet, Excelon, Seroquel > Was given Risperdal in NH for a few weeks (Feb '05) > Haldol several times in Hospital Jan 05 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Imogene: Mum's instructions in her living will are that there are to be no heroic efforts made to keep her alive. Somehow we had envisioned the " television hospital scene " where the heart stops and the family declines defibrilation. This somehow seems different. Up until the pnemonia Mum's verbal skills were limited but I believe she has always known her 3 daughters. And she still does. Some of our circumstances seem to have been forgotten, children, husbands, etc. On Thursday night she was quite agitated with both the nurse and myself and seemed to think she had to go somewhere. She kept attempting to get up. I finally managed to get out of her that she believed she had just had a baby. Rather than disagree with her, I told her that she had to get strong and better in order to be able to take care of the baby. This seemed to calm her. On Friday when the music therapist was she still knew the words to Bye Bye Blackbird and she mouthed the words. Over the past few months Mum's physical self has deteriorated. In fact her mobility had gotten so bad we had her fitted for a wheelchair a few weeks back. (it arrived 6 hours before she was taken to hospital) Most of Mum's life she struggled with weight problems, as of yesterday her weight is 105 lbs. We are trying to take all of this into consideration when we discuss our options. Is there any quality of life still here? It is , as you have said, so hard to let go. Especially when we occasionally see glimpses. For 7 hours on Thursday I sat with her. For most of the time she slept fitfully. When she was awake and tried to speak to me it was garbled and frustrating. When I kissed her goodnight and said " I love you Mummy " , without opening her eyes she said back to me " Love you too " . > > > Hi , does your mother have instructions to Doctors as to what should, > or should not, take place in the event she came to this stage? That would take > first place. Has your mother ever verbally expressed a desire to be kept > alive artificially? Or is she opposed to it? > > Would you be keeping her alive to satisfy your own need to keep your mother > around as long as possible, because you just can't let go? Or, What is the > best for her in the long run? Do you think the longer she endures end stage by > being kept alive that she will be totally comfortable? Is she responsive to > you? Does she know you? How lucid was she before the pneumonia? > > Ask your Doctor how long she is expected to live, and also, for another > Doctor's opinion. He may very well say no one can answer that. Then, ask him if > he would have this done on his own mother if she was in the same condition? > > Yet, in the end it is up to you girls. My heart goes out to you. I am so > sorry. This is all I could think of off the top of my head, but it's a starter. > Love a bunch, > > Imogene > Caregiver for my True Texas Gentleman husband of 36 years. He has LBD with > Parkinsonism. > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/8/2006 9:35:20 PM Central Standard Time, > skrabek@... writes: > > Hi all > > This will be a difficult e-mail to write. My sisters and I have > reached a crossroad with our Mum. One that we had hoped we would not > have to deal with yet. > > Mum was sent to the hospital last week when the NH felt she had > aspirated on something (food or saliva) and she required deep > suctioning. Mum's white blood cell count was found to be slightly > elevated so they admitted her to check for a possible infection. > Everything seemed to be checking out and they would be returning her > to the NH when her respiration suddenly dropped to 37 (it's supposed > to be in the 90's). They put her on oxygen and re-checked for > infection and they diagnosed her with pnemonia. She was put on IV > fluids and antibiotic and she began to improve. On Tuesday the Dr > felt we should have the speech pathologist, Occupational therapist & > Physiotherapist come in and evaluate all the things they evaluate. On > Wednesday Mum was so sleepy none of the therapists could rouse her > enough to do their jobs. The " team " felt that the lack of food had > zapped Mum of all her energy so they inserted a temporary feeding tube > to get something into her system. The main worry was testing her > swallowing reflex. Aspiration in her sleepy state is high risk. > > With more hand/eye coordination than Mum has shown in months, Mum > removed her feeding tube. My sisters and my first thought was that > the doctor would just put the tube back in but he is having us > re-think everything. He has told us we are faced with 4 choices > > 1) Put the feeding tube back in, hope she doesn't pull it out (is she > trying to tell us something?) > 2) Do nothing (not sure what this means) > 3) Start feeding her by mouth and take our chances that she will aspirate > 4) Have a permanent feeding tube put in (again not sure of what this > means) > > We believe the doctor feels that Mum will not be getting better, that > this is the stage of her life with LBD that she has reached. > > Friends, experts, those who have been through this .... my sisters > and I are meeting to discuss our options and come up with our list of > questions for the medical staff. If you have any advise, questions we > should be asking or just your prayers for Mum and for us as we meet to > make decisions they will be greatly appreciated. > > from Cresswell ON Canada > Long distance CG to Margaret (Mum) aged 76 > Lives at The Briton House, Memory Floor, Toronto > DX Early Onset AD & PD approx. 2002 > DX LBD 01/2005 > Current Meds: Aricept, LD ASA, Levothyroxin, Calcium Suppl. > Was on: Sinemet, Excelon, Seroquel > Was given Risperdal in NH for a few weeks (Feb '05) > Haldol several times in Hospital Jan 05 > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 , Do read some of the end of life stuff in the links at the bottom is this that VIctoria has put in. I wished I had because it does try and help you understand what kinds of things might help you understand where she is at. As I understand it, if the body is shutting down, and I am not saying it is, but if it is, the feeding tube will not help her but cause her body to be trying to stop and go at the same time and it be more painful than to just let her go naturally. This certainly is not the time of year you should have to make this kind of decision. Hope you get all the answers to make the decision so you are all comfortable. Lots of special hugs, Donna R Caregave for Mom (after I brought her from WI to MI) for 3 years and 4th year in a nh. She was almost 89 when she died in '02. No dx other than mine. Re: Decisions Imogene: Mum's instructions in her living will are that there are to be no heroic efforts made to keep her alive. Somehow we had envisioned the " television hospital scene " where the heart stops and the family declines defibrilation. This somehow seems different. Up until the pnemonia Mum's verbal skills were limited but I believe she has always known her 3 daughters. And she still does. Some of our circumstances seem to have been forgotten, children, husbands, etc. On Thursday night she was quite agitated with both the nurse and myself and seemed to think she had to go somewhere. She kept attempting to get up. I finally managed to get out of her that she believed she had just had a baby. Rather than disagree with her, I told her that she had to get strong and better in order to be able to take care of the baby. This seemed to calm her. On Friday when the music therapist was she still knew the words to Bye Bye Blackbird and she mouthed the words. Over the past few months Mum's physical self has deteriorated. In fact her mobility had gotten so bad we had her fitted for a wheelchair a few weeks back. (it arrived 6 hours before she was taken to hospital) Most of Mum's life she struggled with weight problems, as of yesterday her weight is 105 lbs. We are trying to take all of this into consideration when we discuss our options. Is there any quality of life still here? It is , as you have said, so hard to let go. Especially when we occasionally see glimpses. For 7 hours on Thursday I sat with her. For most of the time she slept fitfully. When she was awake and tried to speak to me it was garbled and frustrating. When I kissed her goodnight and said " I love you Mummy " , without opening her eyes she said back to me " Love you too " . > > > Hi , does your mother have instructions to Doctors as to what should, > or should not, take place in the event she came to this stage? That would take > first place. Has your mother ever verbally expressed a desire to be kept > alive artificially? Or is she opposed to it? > > Would you be keeping her alive to satisfy your own need to keep your mother > around as long as possible, because you just can't let go? Or, What is the > best for her in the long run? Do you think the longer she endures end stage by > being kept alive that she will be totally comfortable? Is she responsive to > you? Does she know you? How lucid was she before the pneumonia? > > Ask your Doctor how long she is expected to live, and also, for another > Doctor's opinion. He may very well say no one can answer that. Then, ask him if > he would have this done on his own mother if she was in the same condition? > > Yet, in the end it is up to you girls. My heart goes out to you. I am so > sorry. This is all I could think of off the top of my head, but it's a starter. > Love a bunch, > > Imogene > Caregiver for my True Texas Gentleman husband of 36 years. He has LBD with > Parkinsonism. > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/8/2006 9:35:20 PM Central Standard Time, > skrabek@... writes: > > Hi all > > This will be a difficult e-mail to write. My sisters and I have > reached a crossroad with our Mum. One that we had hoped we would not > have to deal with yet. > > Mum was sent to the hospital last week when the NH felt she had > aspirated on something (food or saliva) and she required deep > suctioning. Mum's white blood cell count was found to be slightly > elevated so they admitted her to check for a possible infection. > Everything seemed to be checking out and they would be returning her > to the NH when her respiration suddenly dropped to 37 (it's supposed > to be in the 90's). They put her on oxygen and re-checked for > infection and they diagnosed her with pnemonia. She was put on IV > fluids and antibiotic and she began to improve. On Tuesday the Dr > felt we should have the speech pathologist, Occupational therapist & > Physiotherapist come in and evaluate all the things they evaluate. On > Wednesday Mum was so sleepy none of the therapists could rouse her > enough to do their jobs. The " team " felt that the lack of food had > zapped Mum of all her energy so they inserted a temporary feeding tube > to get something into her system. The main worry was testing her > swallowing reflex. Aspiration in her sleepy state is high risk. > > With more hand/eye coordination than Mum has shown in months, Mum > removed her feeding tube. My sisters and my first thought was that > the doctor would just put the tube back in but he is having us > re-think everything. He has told us we are faced with 4 choices > > 1) Put the feeding tube back in, hope she doesn't pull it out (is she > trying to tell us something?) > 2) Do nothing (not sure what this means) > 3) Start feeding her by mouth and take our chances that she will aspirate > 4) Have a permanent feeding tube put in (again not sure of what this > means) > > We believe the doctor feels that Mum will not be getting better, that > this is the stage of her life with LBD that she has reached. > > Friends, experts, those who have been through this .... my sisters > and I are meeting to discuss our options and come up with our list of > questions for the medical staff. If you have any advise, questions we > should be asking or just your prayers for Mum and for us as we meet to > make decisions they will be greatly appreciated. > > from Cresswell ON Canada > Long distance CG to Margaret (Mum) aged 76 > Lives at The Briton House, Memory Floor, Toronto > DX Early Onset AD & PD approx. 2002 > DX LBD 01/2005 > Current Meds: Aricept, LD ASA, Levothyroxin, Calcium Suppl. > Was on: Sinemet, Excelon, Seroquel > Was given Risperdal in NH for a few weeks (Feb '05) > Haldol several times in Hospital Jan 05 > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Oh Mercy! I see more clearly why your struggle to make a dicision is so difficult. Heroic measures do include any form of sustaining life. I am so glad we have talked this over many times, and we have our paper work in order. What a horrible time you are going through. I am sending you strength and love, that you would feel if I were there. Imogene In a message dated 12/9/2006 8:47:04 AM Central Standard Time, skrabek@... writes: Imogene: Mum's instructions in her living will are that there are to be no heroic efforts made to keep her alive. Somehow we had envisioned the " television hospital scene " where the heart stops and the family declines defibrilation. This somehow seems different. Up until the pnemonia Mum's verbal skills were limited but I believe she has always known her 3 daughters. And she still does. Some of our circumstances seem to have been forgotten, children, husbands, etc. On Thursday night she was quite agitated with both the nurse and myself and seemed to think she had to go somewhere. She kept attempting to get up. I finally managed to get out of her that she believed she had just had a baby. Rather than disagree with her, I told her that she had to get strong and better in order to be able to take care of the baby. This seemed to calm her. On Friday when the music therapist was she still knew the words to Bye Bye Blackbird and she mouthed the words. Over the past few months Mum's physical self has deteriorated. In fact her mobility had gotten so bad we had her fitted for a wheelchair a few weeks back. (it arrived 6 hours before she was taken to hospital) Most of Mum's life she struggled with weight problems, as of yesterday her weight is 105 lbs. We are trying to take all of this into consideration when we discuss our options. Is there any quality of life still here? It is , as you have said, so hard to let go. Especially when we occasionally see glimpses. For 7 hours on Thursday I sat with her. For most of the time she slept fitfully. When she was awake and tried to speak to me it was garbled and frustrating. When I kissed her goodnight and said " I love you Mummy " , without opening her eyes she said back to me " Love you too " . > > > Hi , does your mother have instructions to Doctors as to what should, > or should not, take place in the event she came to this stage? That would take > first place. Has your mother ever verbally expressed a desire to be kept > alive artificially? Or is she opposed to it? > > Would you be keeping her alive to satisfy your own need to keep your mother > around as long as possible, because you just can't let go? Or, What is the > best for her in the long run? Do you think the longer she endures end stage by > being kept alive that she will be totally comfortable? Is she responsive to > you? Does she know you? How lucid was she before the pneumonia? > > Ask your Doctor how long she is expected to live, and also, for another > Doctor's opinion. He may very well say no one can answer that. Then, ask him if > he would have this done on his own mother if she was in the same condition? > > Yet, in the end it is up to you girls. My heart goes out to you. I am so > sorry. This is all I could think of off the top of my head, but it's a starter. > Love a bunch, > > Imogene > Caregiver for my True Texas Gentleman husband of 36 years. He has LBD with > Parkinsonism. > > > > > > > > In a message dated 12/8/2006 9:35:20 PM Central Standard Time, > skrabek@... writes: > > Hi all > > This will be a difficult e-mail to write. My sisters and I have > reached a crossroad with our Mum. One that we had hoped we would not > have to deal with yet. > > Mum was sent to the hospital last week when the NH felt she had > aspirated on something (food or saliva) and she required deep > suctioning. Mum's white blood cell count was found to be slightly > elevated so they admitted her to check for a possible infection. > Everything seemed to be checking out and they would be returning her > to the NH when her respiration suddenly dropped to 37 (it's supposed > to be in the 90's). They put her on oxygen and re-checked for > infection and they diagnosed her with pnemonia. She was put on IV > fluids and antibiotic and she began to improve. On Tuesday the Dr > felt we should have the speech pathologist, Occupational therapist & > Physiotherapist come in and evaluate all the things they evaluate. On > Wednesday Mum was so sleepy none of the therapists could rouse her > enough to do their jobs. The " team " felt that the lack of food had > zapped Mum of all her energy so they inserted a temporary feeding tube > to get something into her system. The main worry was testing her > swallowing reflex. Aspiration in her sleepy state is high risk. > > With more hand/eye coordination than Mum has shown in months, Mum > removed her feeding tube. My sisters and my first thought was that > the doctor would just put the tube back in but he is having us > re-think everything. He has told us we are faced with 4 choices > > 1) Put the feeding tube back in, hope she doesn't pull it out (is she > trying to tell us something?) > 2) Do nothing (not sure what this means) > 3) Start feeding her by mouth and take our chances that she will aspirate > 4) Have a permanent feeding tube put in (again not sure of what this > means) > > We believe the doctor feels that Mum will not be getting better, that > this is the stage of her life with LBD that she has reached. > > Friends, experts, those who have been through this .... my sisters > and I are meeting to discuss our options and come up with our list of > questions for the medical staff. If you have any advise, questions we > should be asking or just your prayers for Mum and for us as we meet to > make decisions they will be greatly appreciated. > > from Cresswell ON Canada > Long distance CG to Margaret (Mum) aged 76 > Lives at The Briton House, Memory Floor, Toronto > DX Early Onset AD & PD approx. 2002 > DX LBD 01/2005 > Current Meds: Aricept, LD ASA, Levothyroxin, Calcium Suppl. > Was on: Sinemet, Excelon, Seroquel > Was given Risperdal in NH for a few weeks (Feb '05) > Haldol several times in Hospital Jan 05 > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Hi , My heart goes out to you and your sisters. This is such a tough step in the LBD journey and one I hope I don't have to face. I don't really have any advice but wanted to send you my support. Courage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 -- I'm truly sorry you have to make this type of decision. It's never easy, especially for someone we love deeply & unconditionally... With that said I hope the following links would help you make your decision: http://www.hardchoices.com/ http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/333/7580/1214 I, too, had to make the tough decision with regards to my mom and if we wanted to insert a breathing tube. It was devastating for us to say 'No' but we already decided as mom's team " no heroic measures " and our thoughts were that her quality of life would not be better had we decided to have a tube inserted, if anything it would decrease her quality of life. Please know that I send positive thoughts your way to help you make this difficult decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Thanks ...this is the complete " Hard Choices " that I also found helpful. > > -- I'm truly sorry you have to make this type of decision. It's > never easy, especially for someone we love deeply & unconditionally... > With that said I hope the following links would help you make your > decision: > > http://www.hardchoices.com/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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