Re: Sixth sense

[Guest guest]

Newland wrote:

> Bill:

>

> In what way?

>

> Just curious?

" In what way? " ...Good question. I have an/the answer.

But after years of noodling over it I've *still* not got an adequate

way to express it. That's why the " my cognition " page on my web-site

isn't finished: The " metaphor " description, while somewhat adequate,

just isn't the whole story. By definition even, it's inexact.

I " see things " that other people don't. Not fuzzy, distant, or

" dreamy " ; but whole and entire, ...concrete! And always actually " in

the moment " even when others think I'm not.

It's like I live in two worlds at once. My " work-a-day " world; and *the

other* ...where I'm " living in my head " and protected. The other world

where I was as a child, and the teacher would say: " ! Stop your

day-dreaming Right! Now! "

Those two worlds, with two *very different* perceptions of " things " ,

easily connect with each other. Everything in one is fully accessible

to me from the other.

I believe this is something most young children can do pretty easily.

But over time the facility either is lost, or it's *trained* out of

them. As my teacher(s) had tried to do, but failed.

I believe it's something that I just never grew out of, ...never lost.

Check out " Lucid Dream " and " Pre-lucid dream " on Wikipedia.

_I don't claim anything_ about the validity of those concepts. But

the *descriptions* are awfully damn' *close* to what I experience on a

daily basis. Over all my life.

Make of them what you will; I'd like to hear your thoughts.

- Bill, dx AS; ...NOT a crazy-eyed New-Ager. Really.

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

This is an interesting topic. I have always had vivid dreams both awake and

not awake. I have had dreams at night in which I have no control but then

have had them happen later in life and was able to change the outcome

because I remembered what had happen in the dream at the crucial moment and

changed what I did. The older I get the more I have what I guess are called

lucid dreams where I am in control of what goes on. I often discard dreams

that are not interesting to me, think about something else or dream about

something specific, particularly if I am trying to solve an internal

question.

I have also had dreams that I do not have control over that directly pertain

to my everyday life. At first they appear to be not true but I started to

find they were definitely pointing at telling me something about how I was

living my life. Because of this I have learned to really think about the

dreams I have, particularly the dreams that happen where I am not lucid.

Most of you probably know I have been having problems in my marriage.

Previous to recognizing the issues and seeing that there was a problem I had

repeated dreams in which I would get so angry at my husband I was smashing

my head on the walls. I couldn't understand why I would have those dreams

because I was never an angry person & we had a 'good' marriage. (I would get

annoyed or frustrated but not smoke pouring out of my ears angry.) I later

realized that my subconscience was trying to express what I was simply not

aware was going on inside me. It wasn't until I stepped back and saw the

reality of how my husband was living in this marriage that I was able to see

that I was very angry at being treated like garbage. It was shortly after

that recognition and when I began to take steps to deal with the problem in

real life when those particular dreams disappeared. I have also had dreams

happen in which every piece of the dream happened exactly the same in real

life. Oddly enough, most of the time those are just mundane unimportant

dreams so I really would not attribute them to a higher power as it doesn't

seem like there would be any point. I am more inclined to think that humans

have more abilities in their brains than are generally used. Once as teen I

dreamed I was herding my sheep (I could recognize them by name) but they

were in a strange pen and there was a strange barn I had never seen. A few

months later I found myself herding those very sheep in that very pen by

that barn. In the intervening time we sold the sheep to my boss (in the

dream I had not met him yet nor gotten a job yet.). Very weird feeling,

almost felt like I was in some sort of floaty disconnect with the rest of

the world in that time when the dream became reality. Like time stopped for

a moment.

I also live in I guess you could call it two worlds. The world in my head in

many ways seems more real than the 'real' world. I always know the

difference between the two though there were times as a teen where I had

moments of blurriness where I wasn't sure which was real. At this point in

life my brain works so quickly it is easy to process between the two worlds.

Heavy daydreaming as a child has turned into more of a ongoing conversation

with God in which I attempt to solve problems, contemplate philisophical

subjects, etc. I'm not really explaining to well what it's like.... But then

I haven't had breakfast yet... ;-)

I also have what I guess is called a sixth sense where I just know things

spontaneously. This made life rather difficult as a child/teen/young adult

because I could not distinguish between what I just got from my sixth sense

and what is totally fact based. Thus I would talk about those things,

thinking everyone knew about them. As you can imagine I had a lot of

different reactions to that! Mostly anger as often my sixth sense is about

people and why they do things or about who they are. For a time I shut the

whole thing down and ignored it because I had such negative reactions so

often I assume I must have been wrong and am just crazy. After a time I

started noticing that things I had said were actually correct so I started

observing people over longer periods of time and comparing that to the sixth

sense I had about them. And found that mostly my sixth sense is about things

that people are hiding even from themselves. Thus the angry reaction most of

the time. Occasionally I ran into a person who totally accepted what I said

and instantly made the internal connection. Perhaps they were at a point in

life where they were ready to hear it so it was not offensive to hear it

said by someone else. At this point in life I have been trying to figure out

when should I say this stuff and when should I keep my mouth shut. How do I

know when a person is ready to hear, thus I would be helpful to them or not

ready to hear so I'm only going to get an angry reaction. Still I have seen

it happen where they got mad at me but then accepted the idea from someone

else later, as if I had simply planted the seed of an idea which helped them

move forward in life instead of staying stuck. I don't know, I still am

struggling to know what is the point in having an ability like this if it's

not used to help others but at the same time if people don't want to know,

don't want to hear what right do I have to shove it down their throat? Maybe

as time goes on I will get a better understanding of when to talk....?? I

think I'm starting to learn that, maybe.

Jennie AS dreamer but not New Age either.

Re: Sixth sense

> " In what way? " ...Good question. I have an/the answer.

> But after years of noodling over it I've *still* not got an adequate

> way to express it. That's why the " my cognition " page on my web-site

> isn't finished: The " metaphor " description, while somewhat adequate,

> just isn't the whole story. By definition even, it's inexact.

>

> I " see things " that other people don't. Not fuzzy, distant, or

> " dreamy " ; but whole and entire, ...concrete! And always actually " in

> the moment " even when others think I'm not.

>

> It's like I live in two worlds at once. My " work-a-day " world; and *the

> other* ...where I'm " living in my head " and protected. The other world

> where I was as a child, and the teacher would say: " ! Stop your

> day-dreaming Right! Now! "

>

> Those two worlds, with two *very different* perceptions of " things " ,

> easily connect with each other. Everything in one is fully accessible

> to me from the other.

>

> I believe this is something most young children can do pretty easily.

> But over time the facility either is lost, or it's *trained* out of

> them. As my teacher(s) had tried to do, but failed.

>

> I believe it's something that I just never grew out of, ...never lost.

>

> Check out " Lucid Dream " and " Pre-lucid dream " on Wikipedia.

> _I don't claim anything_ about the validity of those concepts. But

> the *descriptions* are awfully damn' *close* to what I experience on a

> daily basis. Over all my life.

>

> Make of them what you will; I'd like to hear your thoughts.

>

> - Bill, dx AS; ...NOT a crazy-eyed New-Ager. Really.

[Guest guest]

I do hope " sixth sense " doesn't stick as a label.

IMO it's just regular/normal senses, broadened and heightened and

*vastly* better incorporated into our (AS) internal world-view. Some

NTs do it too I believe.

Jennie Unknown wrote:

> This is an interesting topic. I have always had vivid dreams both awake and

> not awake. I have had dreams at night in which I have no control but then

> have had them happen later in life and was able to change the outcome

> because I remembered what had happen in the dream at the crucial moment and

> changed what I did. The older I get the more I have what I guess are called

> lucid dreams where I am in control of what goes on. I often discard dreams

> that are not interesting to me, think about something else or dream about

> something specific, particularly if I am trying to solve an internal

> question.

>

> I have also had dreams that I do not have control over that directly pertain

> to my everyday life. At first they appear to be not true but I started to

> find they were definitely pointing at telling me something about how I was

> living my life. Because of this I have learned to really think about the

> dreams I have, particularly the dreams that happen where I am not lucid.

[ snip ]

Bingo, Jennie -- BINGO! Goes for all the rest too!

One difference though, me from you:

I *very* rarely ever dream in the classical sense. I did as a child

and pre-teen. But they all were *horrible* and frightening nightmares

" all the time " . Then I trained myself out of them. *Consciously*

altered their outcomes. Lucid dreaming? Eliminated the " Fear Factor "

and actually began to enjoy them.

Then they simply stopped. Stopped *cold*; never recurred. But so

did all my other dreams. Go figure...

>

> Jennie AS dreamer but not New Age either.

>

> Re: Sixth sense

>

>> " In what way? " ...Good question. I have an/the answer.

>> But after years of noodling over it I've *still* not got an adequate

>> way to express it.

[ snip ]

>>

>> - Bill, dx AS; ...NOT a crazy-eyed New-Ager. Really.

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

Re: Sixth sense

> I do hope " sixth sense " doesn't stick as a label.

> IMO it's just regular/normal senses, broadened and heightened and

> *vastly* better incorporated into our (AS) internal world-view. Some

> NTs do it too I believe.

>

> One difference though, me from you:

> I *very* rarely ever dream in the classical sense. I did as a child

> and pre-teen. But they all were *horrible* and frightening nightmares

> " all the time " . Then I trained myself out of them. *Consciously*

> altered their outcomes. Lucid dreaming? Eliminated the " Fear Factor "

> and actually began to enjoy them.

> Then they simply stopped. Stopped *cold*; never recurred. But so

> did all my other dreams. Go figure...

Sixth sense has so much baggage, it would be a shame if it really stuck.

I also had severe nightmares as a child, teen, and even young adult. Even

then I would often gain control of some of the dreams. For example I had a

reoccurring dream of our car driving off a bridge into a deep gully. Rather

than land and dying or waking up on the way down we always landed the car,

bounced and drove off down the dried river bed. Go figure. LOL I didn't even

dream normal. ;-)

I did have frequent nightmares though and one in particular I always had

when I was sick and had a high fever. It was the same dream for years and

was terrifying. Most of my nightmares as a child included me feeling or

being put in a totally helpless position, being totally out of control.

Those dreams stopped when I left home and became independent. I have found

since that nightmares are usually telling me something about my life that I

am in totally and complete denial about. Though there is one that I just

flat out can't make out any correlation (which could mean I am totally and

completely in denial more than usual) and some that I believe were some kind

of a demonic attack. (demonic meaning an attack by some sort of evil

presence call it whatever you like) I think dreams are to a certain extent

the brain wandering in areas that we have avoided in waking hours. Our brain

solving problems that we couldn't solve while awake, or dealing with

emotions we have been unable to process while awake. I have found for

example my dreams of helplessness as a child directly correlates to my

mother being a complete control freak. I was totally under her control while

I lived in her house. I think as a small child it was very overwhelming and

to me (very independent in nature) very horrible. Yet a child can't really

figure all that out, thus nightmares about being out of control. I think

that once we take control totally of our dreams they would by necessity stop

since they have their roots in the unfettered wandering of our brains.

Perhaps... just my conjecture.

Jennie

[Guest guest]

Jennie Unknown wrote:

> Re: Sixth sense

>

>> I do hope " sixth sense " doesn't stick as a label.

>> IMO it's just regular/normal senses, broadened and heightened and

>> *vastly* better incorporated into our (AS) internal world-view. Some

>> NTs do it too I believe.

>>

>> One difference though, me from you:

>> I *very* rarely ever dream in the classical sense. I did as a child

>> and pre-teen. But they all were *horrible* and frightening nightmares

>> " all the time " . Then I trained myself out of them. *Consciously*

>> altered their outcomes. Lucid dreaming? Eliminated the " Fear Factor "

>> and actually began to enjoy them.

>> Then they simply stopped. Stopped *cold*; never recurred. But so

>> did all my other dreams. Go figure...

>

> Sixth sense has so much baggage, it would be a shame if it really stuck.

>

> I also had severe nightmares as a child, teen, and even young adult. Even

> then I would often gain control of some of the dreams. For example I had a

> reoccurring dream of our car driving off a bridge into a deep gully. Rather

> than land and dying or waking up on the way down we always landed the car,

> bounced and drove off down the dried river bed. Go figure. LOL I didn't even

> dream normal. ;-)

Amazing! My nightmares often as not involved being chased (very fast)

by a Bad Man = my father? While I (slow motion) never could run fast

enough to get away.

Eventually I came to the edge of a very steep cliff. *Terrified* of

my pursuer, I'd jump and hit ...something. Wake up suddenly with the

bed shaking like an earthquake had struck. Like the aftermath of a

seizure, really.

But one time, eyes tight shut (in my dream), I found I'd *bounced*

and didn't hit anything. Woke up *without* the bed ashake. Ever

thereafter I *knew* I could bounce, and planned on it. *Guided* my fall

to hit the best bushes.

Then I'd going sproinging away from bush to bush like Br'er Rabbit,

having a *ball*! After awhile there wasn't any Bad Man. No reason to

run; no reason to jump. And my dreams stopped.

>

> I did have frequent nightmares though and one in particular I always had

> when I was sick and had a high fever. It was the same dream for years and

> was terrifying.

My fever dreams were a whole different thing!

Never nightmares at all, and only while at least semi-conscious or

even *awake* (in the sense of day-dreaming).

Always like what have been called " out of body " experiences, they

were lucid dreams without any doubt. But of a sort wherein I learned

to control them fully (like 'bouncing'). I've not been *that* ill in

many decades.

Yet I have those *experiences* still today; while healthy, wide

awake, and even in the company of others.

> Most of my nightmares as a child included me feeling or

> being put in a totally helpless position, being totally out of control.

> Those dreams stopped when I left home and became independent.

Interesting!

Retrospectively, *as* I write this, I wonder if me learning to bounce

away from danger (my fears?) *was* my independence-point.

> I have found

> since that nightmares are usually telling me something about my life that I

> am in totally and complete denial about. Though there is one that I just

> flat out can't make out any correlation (which could mean I am totally and

> completely in denial more than usual) and some that I believe were some kind

> of a demonic attack. (demonic meaning an attack by some sort of evil

> presence call it whatever you like) I think dreams are to a certain extent

> the brain wandering in areas that we have avoided in waking hours. Our brain

> solving problems that we couldn't solve while awake,

Yup! And sometimes even *without* dreaming...

I may go to sleep thinking of some problem unsolved during the day.

Then I'm oblivious (or something). Then I'm wide awake; it's *normal

morning* and up-and-at-em. But my problem is solved.

Now though I have a clear *memory* of how I did it! No dreams, no

pictures; scarcely any sense of transition or of time passing or passed.

But now, conscious again, I can re-construct everything.

Which is another oddity(?): My " sense of time " is more a sense of

" warped time " , as in science-fiction. Sometimes very precise; at other

times more like ...absent! Sometimes *both*, if you can imagine that;

as if I really did live in two worlds. That's the " warped " part.

Drives my wife *right* up the wall.

> or dealing with

> emotions we have been unable to process while awake. I have found for

> example my dreams of helplessness as a child directly correlates to my

> mother being a complete control freak. I was totally under her control while

> I lived in her house. I think as a small child it was very overwhelming and

> to me (very independent in nature) very horrible.

Are you sure you're not my sister?? OK, a joke; but...

> Yet a child can't really

> figure all that out, thus nightmares about being out of control. I think

> that once we take control totally of our dreams they would by necessity stop

> since they have their roots in the unfettered wandering of our brains.

> Perhaps... just my conjecture.

" Unfettered wandering... " Oooo, I *love* it! Though I'd guess for most

AS at least, not *completely* unfettered (as in 'aimless').

- Bill, dx AS

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

> Are you sure you're not my sister?? OK, a joke; but...

> - Bill, dx AS

>

> WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

> http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

Well actually we could potentially be related. (I have a strong belief in

genetic similarities being far more than just externals and medical issues

in families) I have a whole branch of my family genealogy which I have been

unable to trace. There was a gggrandfather who disappeared. The family was

told and passed down the story that he died but an uncle of mine found a

divorce record for the time when he was supposed to have died. The reason

given for divorce was adultery, the mom (gggrandmother) remarried within 3

weeks of the divorce which leads one to wonder if she was the one who

committed adultery and perhaps the boy was only hers and not her first

husbands as is written on the birth certificate since they were still

married at the time. The boy was 1 at the time. The first husband (presumed

the dad) disappears from all records that we have been able to search. (Not

having poured a lot of money into it.) He was last known to live in northern

CA. I have always wondered who was the dad of the child and what happened to

either of the potential dads. The ggg who disappeared... one wonders if he

married again and had a family somewhere else? Or was he not actually the

dad...Anyway... interest area of mine. Do you have mysterious untraceable

relatives with no past or missing years? ;-) Originally from Missouri.

Surname Rhoades

Jennie -sister in spirit anyway

[Guest guest]

Jennie Unknown wrote:

>> Are you sure you're not my sister?? OK, a joke; but...

>> - Bill, dx AS

[ snip ]

> Well actually we could potentially be related. (I have a strong belief in

> genetic similarities being far more than just externals and medical issues

> in families) I have a whole branch of my family genealogy which I have been

> unable to trace.

[ snip ]

>Anyway... interest area of mine. Do you have mysterious untraceable

> relatives with no past or missing years? ;-) Originally from Missouri.

Do I have? Yup; my " father " : D. Noland (Senior).

My birth certificate names me D. Noland, Jr. That was changed

legally to D. Loughman when I was a teen. Loughman was my

mother's 2nd (or 3rd??) husband.

Noland pere is related in some way to Ethel Noland, a well-known

cousin of Pres. Harry S Truman. Beyond that more-or-less certain

knowledge (from my mother), I can't find mention of *any* other paternal

relatives.

WD Noland Sr. is a ghost.

My mother is not: Her family is well documented in two family-published

genealogies reaching back to 1717 (Gibbel) and 1845 (Bucher).

> Surname Rhoades

Seven Rhoades on my mother's side, but only three by birth. All in the

1960s, ...if I read the begats right.

>

> Jennie -sister in spirit anyway

Fershur. But probably forever *only*. <Sigh>

- Bill, dx AS

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm