Guest guest Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Dear Limin and others, This question is regarding Dr Amy yasko's theories. There are too many posts that show up if I search under creatinine in yasko's forum and it didn't answer my qn, so I am posting here. According to yasko, as creatinine increases in urine, it reflects viral excretion. She says this is followed by clear urine which is reflective of heavy metal excretion generally. So my q is: 1. Is the color of the urine reflective of creatinine? In other words, is it safe to say more yellow urine = more creatinine in that sample? Or is it not related and yellow color just reflects just how dilute the urine sample is. 2. When she says increase in creatinine followed by heavy metal excretion occurs, what timeframe does she mean? Is it over days, the urine becomes darker and then may be after weeks or so, you see it clear? It's confusing as I observed my son's urine and it appears to have major changes in color (dark yellow to almost transparent) within a same day. I wonder if urine creatinine shows circadian changes, assuming color reflects creatinine? 3. Also, when she says increase in creatinine during viral excretion, does it mean overall creatinine amounts excreted over a 24 hr period will change? So does it mean we need to take 24 hr urine, rather than take spot samples, since the creatinine concentration in the random sample sent to DDI would actually be affected by the volume of the urine excreted during the random collection. Thanks very much. If you think this post is off limits for this forum, kindly please write to me privately. I really want to understand this better. Rohini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Rohini, In my experience, the color of urine does not really correlate to high or low creatinine levels. However, there are several factors affecting chreatinine levels. Optimal levels of methylation support will increase creatinine levels in the urine, as AY PhD explains. If your child is dehydrated, he will also have high creatinine in urine; in this case, the urine will tend to be of dark yellow color. In short, urine color does not reflect creatinine levels. You need to do UTM to understand creatinine levels. When the methylation support is in place, the levels of creatinine will climb, and then viral detox occurs. This is reflected by a darker color of urine. When the urine is back to clearer color, this is a sign of metal flow. To observe this, you need to pick a time of the day to observe and keep a record of your child's urine color and the trend of color change over time. Because individuals detox differently, we all have different timeframe for these phrases to occur. In her presentation a few years ago, she showed the UTM results of some older children, who were in the virual detox phase (with high creatinine around 200) for months with a little metals in urine. After about 6 months, they started to pour out metals like crazy, several metals were off-chart on UTMs. In my son's case, once I gave him B12, SAMe, and Methionine. He started to pour out off-chart arsenic for months. I didn't observe any dark urine that suggests viral detox. Our viral detox came much latter, when high dose vitamin A, vitamin C, and Lysine were added. My son's creatinine levels really climbed, when we introduced NDF, Liverlife, and LED protocol. At this time, his viral detox phase and metal flowing phases overlapped. We got high metal volume and high creatinine level and dark urine all at once. What I try to demonstrate is this: In my opinion, observing dark/clear urine is tedious, and information from the observation does not provide confirmation. I think that you will be better off just to run UTMs frequently and consistently. However, practicing your urine color observation skill can save money from testing UTMs. If you do choose to observe and keep records of your child's urine colors, do not do this throughout the day. Creatinine levels fluctuate throughout the day with a general trend of going from high to low. It is meaningless to keep hourly records. Choose a time of the day to observe and keep records of the same time very day. Keep a daily record instead. When I collect urine sample for UTM, I always collect the first morning urine on the 3rd day of our chelation round. This is just my habit. 24-hour urine collection for the purpose of UTMs is just too painful for me. If you always collect urine samples on the same time of the day, overtime the pattern of metal flow reflected by UTMs will start to tell a good story of your son's detox pattern that makes sense to you. Hope this helps. Limin From: rohi_03 Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 06:23 AM To: BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism Subject: yasko - creatinine qn Dear Limin and others,This question is regarding Dr Amy yasko's theories. There are too many posts that show up if I search under creatinine in yasko's forum and it didn't answer my qn, so I am posting here. According to yasko, as creatinine increases in urine, it reflects viral excretion. She says this is followed by clear urine which is reflective of heavy metal excretion generally. So my q is:1. Is the color of the urine reflective of creatinine? In other words, is it safe to say more yellow urine = more creatinine in that sample? Or is it not related and yellow color just reflects just how dilute the urine sample is.2. When she says increase in creatinine followed by heavy metal excretion occurs, what timeframe does she mean? Is it over days, the urine becomes darker and then may be after weeks or so, you see it clear? It's confusing as I observed my son's urine and it appears to have major changes in color (dark yellow to almost transparent) within a same day. I wonder if urine creatinine shows circadian changes, assuming color reflects creatinine?3. Also, when she says increase in creatinine during viral excretion, does it mean overall creatinine amounts excreted over a 24 hr period will change? So does it mean we need to take 24 hr urine, rather than take spot samples, since the creatinine concentration in the random sample sent to DDI would actually be affected by the volume of the urine excreted during the random collection.Thanks very much. If you think this post is off limits for this forum, kindly please write to me privately. I really want to understand this better.Rohini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Rohini, I tracked the color of my son's urine (with a color book no less!) along with creatinine (every morning with test strips at home) and weekly UTM's for a long time. Perhaps other people find patterns which match to excretion of metals, but I didn't. His creatinine was always on the high side though and there wasn't a lot of fluctuation. The color seemed more dependent on hydration and vitamin C supplement timing. If the theory that high creatinine shows viral excretion, then my son was in that mode every day for a year. But at the same time he was dumping plenty of metals... It was an interesting experiment, but I didn't gain any insight from it. One theory that was somewhat correct with my son was the order of metals showing up during long term tracking of excretion. I can't remember the exact order (it was a while ago) but I remember there was a pretty good correlation. I'm not pro or anti yasko. I learned a lot of interesting things before I moved on. > > Dear Limin and others, > > This question is regarding Dr Amy yasko's theories. There are too many posts that show up if I search under creatinine in yasko's forum and it didn't answer my qn, so I am posting here. > > According to yasko, as creatinine increases in urine, it reflects viral excretion. She says this is followed by clear urine which is reflective of heavy metal excretion generally. So my q is: > > 1. Is the color of the urine reflective of creatinine? In other words, is it safe to say more yellow urine = more creatinine in that sample? Or is it not related and yellow color just reflects just how dilute the urine sample is. > > 2. When she says increase in creatinine followed by heavy metal excretion occurs, what timeframe does she mean? Is it over days, the urine becomes darker and then may be after weeks or so, you see it clear? > It's confusing as I observed my son's urine and it appears to have major changes in color (dark yellow to almost transparent) within a same day. I wonder if urine creatinine shows circadian changes, assuming color reflects creatinine? > > 3. Also, when she says increase in creatinine during viral excretion, does it mean overall creatinine amounts excreted over a 24 hr period will change? So does it mean we need to take 24 hr urine, rather than take spot samples, since the creatinine concentration in the random sample sent to DDI would actually be affected by the volume of the urine excreted during the random collection. > > Thanks very much. If you think this post is off limits for this forum, kindly please write to me privately. I really want to understand this better. > > Rohini > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Dear Limin and , Thanks so much for your insights. I will probably just go by the UTMs for toxic metal excretions and not worry so much about creatinine, although will just keep track to see if there are any patterns! In one article, I actually read that for children, urinary creatinine levels showed significant seasonal variation, with levels in the fall being close to half of those in spring. 200 seems like a really high number!!! My son's are between 10 and 20! Well, he is an extremely skinny kid (38 lb) with low muscle mass though, so probably can't expect higher values. Thanks again... Rohini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Not in our case, Rohini. My son has high creatinine in summer (around 100 - 140) and low creatinine in winter (around 50 - 80). Creatinine between 10 - 20 might be too low. Supporting methylation cycle can increase urine creatinine, especially supplementing with methionine. Limin From: rohi_03 Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:14 AM To: BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism Subject: Re: yasko - creatinine qn Dear Limin and ,Thanks so much for your insights. I will probably just go by the UTMs for toxic metal excretions and not worry so much about creatinine, although will just keep track to see if there are any patterns!In one article, I actually read that for children, urinary creatinine levels showed significant seasonal variation, with levels in the fall being close to half of those in spring.200 seems like a really high number!!! My son's are between 10 and 20! Well, he is an extremely skinny kid (38 lb) with low muscle mass though, so probably can't expect higher values.Thanks again...Rohini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 My son was usually around 100, whether he was excreting metals or not (he was 4 years old at the time and well under 40lbs). Once his creatinine dropped under 50, but there wasn't the expected big dump of metals in that test or subsequent ones. Just the same consistent flow of junk out - sometimes high amounts of a few, other times low amounts of many. Over the years he's excreted everything but platinum in the doc data tests. And who knows what else that they don't test for.... Eventually I realized that FM's were a better indicator of metal detox in my son. I'd do a UTM and a FM in the same toilet visit and see a bug dump (pun intended!) of mercury, antimony and beryllium in the FM but hardly anything in the UTM. Every kid is different though - not sure if others have found FM's to have bigger numbers or not. It would make sense if the liver was working well, since that's the preferred exit route for mercury rather than the kidneys. Or so I'm told. Now I only occasionally do a UTM, usually because I want a UEE so it's an add on. I like to do hair once or twice per year because it shows a longer time frame of excretion rather than a snapshot. > > Dear Limin and , > > Thanks so much for your insights. > > I will probably just go by the UTMs for toxic metal excretions and not worry so much about creatinine, although will just keep track to see if there are any patterns! > In one article, I actually read that for children, urinary creatinine levels showed significant seasonal variation, with levels in the fall being close to half of those in spring. > > 200 seems like a really high number!!! My son's are between 10 and 20! Well, he is an extremely skinny kid (38 lb) with low muscle mass though, so probably can't expect higher values. > > Thanks again... > Rohini > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 My son also excretes metals more with stools and less with urine. I test UTM and FM alternatively, in hope of catching some aluminum excretion reflected by UTM, since FM does not track aluminum excretion. Alas, over the course of 4 years, we still have not had much luck with aluminum! Limin From: amandasathome Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:49 AM To: BorreliaMultipleInfectionsAndAutism Subject: Re: yasko - creatinine qn My son was usually around 100, whether he was excreting metals or not (he was 4 years old at the time and well under 40lbs). Once his creatinine dropped under 50, but there wasn't the expected big dump of metals in that test or subsequent ones. Just the same consistent flow of junk out - sometimes high amounts of a few, other times low amounts of many. Over the years he's excreted everything but platinum in the doc data tests. And who knows what else that they don't test for.... Eventually I realized that FM's were a better indicator of metal detox in my son. I'd do a UTM and a FM in the same toilet visit and see a bug dump (pun intended!) of mercury, antimony and beryllium in the FM but hardly anything in the UTM. Every kid is different though - not sure if others have found FM's to have bigger numbers or not. It would make sense if the liver was working well, since that's the preferred exit route for mercury rather than the kidneys. Or so I'm told.Now I only occasionally do a UTM, usually because I want a UEE so it's an add on. I like to do hair once or twice per year because it shows a longer time frame of excretion rather than a snapshot.>> Dear Limin and ,> > Thanks so much for your insights. > > I will probably just go by the UTMs for toxic metal excretions and not worry so much about creatinine, although will just keep track to see if there are any patterns!> In one article, I actually read that for children, urinary creatinine levels showed significant seasonal variation, with levels in the fall being close to half of those in spring.> > 200 seems like a really high number!!! My son's are between 10 and 20! Well, he is an extremely skinny kid (38 lb) with low muscle mass though, so probably can't expect higher values.> > Thanks again...> Rohini> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 I somewhat agree with . I have also found out this trend of Yellow urine with a particular vitamin. I was curious and started taking the vitamin myself and my urine was also yellow:) Sasmita > > > > Dear Limin and others, > > > > This question is regarding Dr Amy yasko's theories. There are too many posts that show up if I search under creatinine in yasko's forum and it didn't answer my qn, so I am posting here. > > > > According to yasko, as creatinine increases in urine, it reflects viral excretion. She says this is followed by clear urine which is reflective of heavy metal excretion generally. So my q is: > > > > 1. Is the color of the urine reflective of creatinine? In other words, is it safe to say more yellow urine = more creatinine in that sample? Or is it not related and yellow color just reflects just how dilute the urine sample is. > > > > 2. When she says increase in creatinine followed by heavy metal excretion occurs, what timeframe does she mean? Is it over days, the urine becomes darker and then may be after weeks or so, you see it clear? > > It's confusing as I observed my son's urine and it appears to have major changes in color (dark yellow to almost transparent) within a same day. I wonder if urine creatinine shows circadian changes, assuming color reflects creatinine? > > > > 3. Also, when she says increase in creatinine during viral excretion, does it mean overall creatinine amounts excreted over a 24 hr period will change? So does it mean we need to take 24 hr urine, rather than take spot samples, since the creatinine concentration in the random sample sent to DDI would actually be affected by the volume of the urine excreted during the random collection. > > > > Thanks very much. If you think this post is off limits for this forum, kindly please write to me privately. I really want to understand this better. > > > > Rohini > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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