Guest guest Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 between mindfulness based cbt and act? I have got myself yet another book, I am raring to go full of optomism as with previous books and yet like other books,(GOOYM, HAP TRAP) will probaly never finish it. Hope u r all well Dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 It's a good question Dawn. I don't know..there is overlap, and there is a difference..I detected it right away in the Mindfulness for Depression book I read by Kabat-Zinn...great book with fantastic examples and a nice CD...and yet..I felt underneath this nagging feeling like he was trying hard to have the person 'get happy' and be non-judgmental' with this new tried and true method called mindfulness. He was still trying to 'reason out of' sadness, fear, etc.--albeit much more gently than traditional CBT... I think mindfulness CBT is still CBT with mindfulness..whereas ACT is a holistic model that comes from the CBT tradition and yet is not CBT per se..ACT as I understand it aims to expand itself with use of a contextual approach to human suffering..moving away from trying to directly change uncomfortable thoughts, feelings memories directly and more emphasis on viewing these things from a wider and different lens that allows us to (ideally) have a more curious and accepting relationship to what we are experiencing (vis a vi radical acceptance and defusion and values work)-- which supposedly creates more room for everything--ACT attempts to teach dancing with the pain while you note your pain and yet...the point is to keep dancing and keep singing...no matter how clumsy or off key you are. The point is who gives a damn, because it's your life, so don't objectify yourself by choosing to live a life that some history tells you to live, or some guru or some author tells you if it doesn't resonate...ACT is about liberation from all that..but you do need to live it for it to work--you need to slip and fall and slip and fall and then learn from all the slipping and falling as compassionately as possible. So there is a huge behavioral component to ACT that I don't see in mindfulness CBT--all kinds of fun stuff to try on and pattern smashing when you are willing and taking those risks to behave in ways that matter.. It's a whole less about directly fixing, changing, being different or better and a whole lot more like being exactly where you are with eyes and ears wide open and breathing into that as you honor and celebrate the same. And holding it all ever so lightly, aware how the mind so wants to turn everything into a rule..even looking for 'tried and true' ways to lead a valued life can become more fusion as we continue to want to figure it all out, tie it all up so neatly, look for the magic way to get it right. (Look out for that one--that is a tricky one--kind of like trying to look to others who seem to have done it right and then make a formula/rule out of that--even role models have to be held lightly). I really have never tried to answer that..that's just some off the cuff thoughts..maybe others can offer more clarity.. Thanks for asking--it kind of made me wonder! (?) Carla > > between mindfulness based cbt and act? > > I have got myself yet another book, I am raring to go full of optomism as with previous books and yet like other books,(GOOYM, HAP TRAP) will probaly never finish it. > Hope u r all well > > Dawn > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Hi Carla, I wish my " off the cuff " writing was as informative and lyrical. Bravo on your distinctions...your mind must work awfully fast! All the best, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2009 Report Share Posted October 9, 2009 Joe, Thanks.. Well,'Off the Cuff' is not entirely accurate--Dawn's question has lingered within me for some time...and so I think it was just good timing and I simply found a flood of words emerge in ultimately writing out my thoughts (a favored venue) at long last. Truly still living in the question.. Carla > > Hi Carla, > > I wish my " off the cuff " writing was as informative and lyrical. Bravo on your distinctions...your mind must work awfully fast! > > All the best, > Joe > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Again, I can relate to so many things you say here, Bruce.. Yeah, we sure do want to figure out the future..that post Steve made about the mind wanting to get it all sorted out and assurances made ahead of time (before we step out and behave in ways that matter) really hit home with me.. You know, I really think a lot of people arise with fear more than admit it. There are days I do, days I don't. With ACT, I guess the aim is you will move away from using words like " But I arose " v. " And I arose " (as Steve noted the other day), as I guess the thing is this can cue the mind to think the fear (or whatever you attach 'bad' to) is a bad thing and it also cues us to imagine it's the only thing we're experiencing..guess the idea is using the term 'but' v. 'and' tends to corner or box our experience in..in other words, in the am, you may arise also feeling excitement, anticipation, perhaps hearing things like birds chirping or cars starting or smelling the aroma of coffee brewing (one of my favorites in the am!) or.. well, you get it. Next thing is nothing wrong with wanting happiness and relief. Again, very natural desires...It's just sort of holding these lightly as values, not goals..I'm very open to present moment experiences of joy and sense of calm/relief...and yet, well..they come in all shapes and sizes..and I think we are again boxing ourselves in when we seek these out as things as objects or goals to attain and maintain (we really can't is the truth), rather than holding these experiences as part of a larger value to remain open to having reveal themselves in your life..if and when they do.. Re: Your 'Relief=Happy' thought: I think the ACT take is this sort of link is very likely and universal really-- not a bad thing inherently, no thoughts, desires, beliefs are in and of themselves are the problem-- in their raw form, that is. Most of it just sort of comes with the territory. We don't choose our automatic thoughts and internal reactions experiences.. We do however choose what we engage and indulge--as Steve said in that great post earlier about impulses (the two posts he responded to in detail about pornography, I believe--which IMO were fantastic as what he spoke to there applies broadly to many other issues). So in that regard, I think ACT aims for us to loosen the grip on that some (vis a vi the processes)--it's the fusion with the thought or belief that gets me into a bind. That sense that " I must not think Relief=Happiness, this is bad and wrong and has to go away before I can live life--that's the kind of thing that can really slow me down. Hope some of that resonates for you. Carla > > > > > > between mindfulness based cbt and act? > > > > > > I have got myself yet another book, I am raring to go full of > > optomism as with previous books and yet like other books,(GOOYM, HAP > > TRAP) will probaly never finish it. > > > Hope u r all well > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 oops--that's supposed to read whatever you attach 'but'(not bad) to. > > > > > > > > between mindfulness based cbt and act? > > > > > > > > I have got myself yet another book, I am raring to go full of > > > optomism as with previous books and yet like other books,(GOOYM, HAP > > > TRAP) will probaly never finish it. > > > > Hope u r all well > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 re: this last paragraph I wrote, it feels like it needs a bit more: Yes, it's O.K. for your mind to have the belief that relief=happiness, but are you also fusing with this as a truism? If so, than it's really time for some more defusion work, because if you are attaching to that belief as though it is so, you could be doing yourself a big dis-service.. Because as you well know, relief sometimes serves and sometimes clearly doesn't..sometimes it brings much pain... so that's where all your ACT work on defusion and values and present moment comes in.. Ideally, the aim in ACT as I read it is for you to have a felt experience of seeing honestly in the moment as here/now chooser whether the 'relief' is truly empowering/feeding your values or not. Some really useful stuff you've written here to unpack (maybe with your therapist or just on your own)..I'd caution to be careful with your words..hard not to do, but try not to paint yourself in a corner with a narrow narrative regarding things like your 'two arising emotions' and so forth, if you know what I mean. Noting is one thing; attaching to all of this as though this is who you are is quite another. Last thing I want to say: this part at the end of your post here, (which I nearly missed!)--where you declared your willingness to try something different today..I'd say that's fantastic, and where it's at..if you are willing to do that, you are on a good path.. I've found even one hour of trying something new can bring many rich rewards. Pace yourself and keep going..best to you! Carla > > > > > > > > between mindfulness based cbt and act? > > > > > > > > I have got myself yet another book, I am raring to go full of > > > optomism as with previous books and yet like other books,(GOOYM, HAP > > > TRAP) will probaly never finish it. > > > > Hope u r all well > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Ivor, just to backtrack a bit--I wonder if you're referring to the animated clip that includes the banana that says " I'm a banana " . Our son, the animator, has a whole bunch of off-the-wall favourite 'toons and I've heard this more than once. 'Course, it could've been Russ or or . . . Best wishes, Christie B copperniki@... > > > > between mindfulness based cbt and act? > > > > I have got myself yet another book, I am raring to go full of optomism as with previous books and yet like other books,(GOOYM, HAP TRAP) will probaly never finish it. > > Hope u r all well > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.9/2426 - Release Date: 10/09/09 18:43:00 > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.13/2432 - Release Date: 10/13/09 06:35:00 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Hi Ivor, I think you’re referring to this section in HapTrap: Not Taking A Thought Seriously Bring to mind a thought that normally upsets you; that takes the form ‘I am X’ (for example, ‘I am inadequate’). Hold that thought in your mind and notice how it affects you. Now bring to mind the thought, ‘I am a banana!’ Hold it in your mind and notice how it affects you. What did you notice? Most people find that the first thought bothers them but the second thought makes them grin. Why? Because you don’t take the second thought seriously. But if the words following ‘I am…’ are ‘a loser’, ‘a failure’, ‘a fat pig’ or ‘a boring person’, instead of ‘a banana’, we tend to attach far more importance to them. And yet, they are all nothing more or less than words. All the best, Cheers, Russ www.act-with-love.com www.thehappinesstrap.com www.actmindfully.com.au From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of Christie Sent: Thursday, 15 October 2009 12:28 AM To: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Re: what is the difference Ivor, just to backtrack a bit--I wonder if you're referring to the animated clip that includes the banana that says " I'm a banana " . Our son, the animator, has a whole bunch of off-the-wall favourite 'toons and I've heard this more than once. 'Course, it could've been Russ or or . . . Best wishes, Christie B copperniki@... > > > > between mindfulness based cbt and act? > > > > I have got myself yet another book, I am raring to go full of optomism as with previous books and yet like other books,(GOOYM, HAP TRAP) will probaly never finish it. > > Hope u r all well > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.9/2426 - Release Date: 10/09/09 18:43:00 > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.13/2432 - Release Date: 10/13/09 06:35:00 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Hi Russ & all, ACT is sure easy to misunderstand and while I hear both you and Carla on the 'just words' aspect--and agree that it is easy to misinterpret--I would also like to support the idea that, despite the historical and painful context of some words, it can be useful to discount them, to mock them, to do the 'milk, milk, milk' exercise with them. Despite all of their terrible baggage. I don't feel this is discounting as much as giving my brain a different perspective on all of those pejoratives of my youth. It is also a way to face those words instead of running away from them. Best wishes, Christie > > > > > > between mindfulness based cbt and act? > > > > > > I have got myself yet another book, I am raring to go full of optomism > as with previous books and yet like other books,(GOOYM, HAP TRAP) will > probaly never finish it. > > > Hope u r all well > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.9/2426 - Release Date: 10/09/09 > 18:43:00 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.13/2432 - Release Date: 10/13/09 > 06:35:00 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 I don't know the difference, but I can relate to getting lots of SH books and not finishing... I'm able to look at my efforts as an extended attempt that has provided me with practice enough to use what I've learned in my daily life... Sometimes we have the idea that there's a " right " way through this practice, even me; yet maybe the only " right " way is the practice itself??? > > between mindfulness based cbt and act? > > I have got myself yet another book, I am raring to go full of optomism as with previous books and yet like other books,(GOOYM, HAP TRAP) will probaly never finish it. > Hope u r all well > > Dawn > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Russ, You need to relax and not be so defensive and learn to not take things so personally. You clearly are uncomfortable with my cautionary remarks and that's just something you will need to learn to live with. Please stick to the content of the debate/disagreement and leave your unprofessional personal attacks and drudging up old resentments off the site. Thank You, Carla > > > > > > between mindfulness based cbt and act? > > > > > > I have got myself yet another book, I am raring to go full of optomism > as with previous books and yet like other books,(GOOYM, HAP TRAP) will > probaly never finish it. > > > Hope u r all well > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.9/2426 - Release Date: 10/09/09 > 18:43:00 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.13/2432 - Release Date: 10/13/09 > 06:35:00 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Yes, it's not real technically-- and yet without acceptance and defusion and really sitting with the thought and allowing it to show itself, it can actually feel very real...so real that we fuse with it, act on it..like Russ seemed to get very upset with the word 'glib'--see it's just a word...so what's the big deal? Because it's not just a word to him...he grew very defensive about my cautionary post emphasizing " I'm a banana " is not the same as " I'm a loser " , so hurt that he drudged up old history... So no, words are not JUST words--not so long as we are human--they will have meaning that we owe it to ourselves to look at and own and note and honor and learn from... that's why acceptance is important and I like to emphasize it in posts where it seems missing...forgive me if I sounds redundant..it's just I know in my own life, I have skipped steps like acceptance and breathing into the feeling (which is a way to honor it), and when I skip that step, it boomerangs...I feel thusly compelled to spell out the need for acceptance and present moment work so folks don't try to hard to intellectualize or talk themselves out of where they are out.. > > > > > > between mindfulness based cbt and act? > > > > > > I have got myself yet another book, I am raring to go full of optomism as with previous books and yet like other books,(GOOYM, HAP TRAP) will probaly never finish it. > > > Hope u r all well > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.9/2426 - Release Date: 10/09/09 18:43:00 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.13/2432 - Release Date: 10/13/09 06:35:00 > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.18/2437 - Release Date: 10/15/09 03:57:00 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 This may be an oversimplification at best: If I buy a SH book and leave it unread, then I've only " practiced " making a purchase. If my aim is more than just purchasing, then maybe I ought to read it; more than reading it, maybe practicing what it suggests; more than practicing, maybe living it...the best SH book that I've read is still being written...and (to my mind's dismay) life is still asking me to live. Sometimes when my mind is telling me there is a formula for " _____, " and that I need to find it...I have fun imagining that there will be no more theories, no more information etc. regarding my " self " improvement/personal growth...and then I ask: " Now what? " And then, here comes life again, waiting for my answer, still better yet my next move. > > > > between mindfulness based cbt and act? > > > > I have got myself yet another book, I am raring to go full of optomism as > with previous books and yet like other books,(GOOYM, HAP TRAP) will probaly > never finish it. > > Hope u r all well > > > > Dawn > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Yes, Carla...I, too thought your comments were out of line. I reread the post to which you were responding, and I'll be darned if I can find anything " defensive " about Dr. ' response. I think this whole discussion gets to the issue of why people (like myself, for instance) occasionally fail to grasp the whole import of ACT. I sometimes get the feeling that some practitioners of ACT believe that if they seemingly " invalidate " the thoughts around a particularly negative episode (by defusion, for example), they are somehow invalidating their suffering...negating their lives; the human experience in all its depth and breadth. Most thoughts are defuse-worthy (with apologies to Jerry and Elaine), but some are sacrosanct...they represent our " real " suffering and are therefore more important than say, bananas... In fact, ACT is demanding just the opposite...to sit with our thoughts and feelings and experience them in all their ferocious vibrancy...but still to realize they are just thoughts and feelings. They're not necessarily (or very often, for that matter) an accurate reflection of reality. Most of them do us much more harm to good if we attend to them simply out of a mental habit. When all is said and done...it's still just milk, milk, milk... If it's profundity your after, sit with the question, " Who is watching this parade? Can you find him or her? And if so, describe her to me... " All the best, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Hi Kate and All, I'm glad this kind of teasing out can be helpful for some here... and if it's not helpful, than that's O.K. too. I'm so grateful for sites like this that are geared to create an opening for serious follow through dialog..of real life experiences and applications. There is no right or wrong way to feel about this--this is just about sharing our experiences with the wording and the exercises.. Yes, I was absolutely aiming to tease this out a bit more, to augment and share important nuances, cautionary footnotes and stumbling blocks I've experienced along the way with words and phrases like this..if it doesn't apply to you, that's fine too. As I said initially (in part): " '.I'm a banana " and other defusion exercises can be a fantastic way to help one simply see thoughts are thoughts..AND it's not to be used to rationalize away the pain...or diminish the tremendous " grab " and thud in the belly that comes with the thought " I'm inadequate " ..one that may never go away...it's just a helpful way to see how a thought really is just that..and that the mind generates hundreds of automatic thoughts all day long..it's what it does...and so it's just about awareness and choice...and giving you a bit of wiggle room when you can begin to appreciate that part of it.... " I'm inadequate " goes way back and comes with all sorts of memories and associations and feelings in our gut attached to it..So staying with that some lightly, with acceptance, present moment work is important so you may fully note and honor the painful thought your mind is having...without necessarily acting on it, and instead looking to your values.. " So as you can see, I actually acknowledged the value of such an exercise (I've used them and they can be very helpful). The point was not to ridicule or take something out of context.. that's a distortion and gross mis-characterization of what I forwarded here. And while we're on the topic of credibility, goodness--I've frankly never heard such a bold claim from a single author...that there is 'NEVER any missing of points for all who read my book'--too bad he couldn't just sit with any sense of momentary hurt he may be feeling and instead acted on his fused hurt by engaging in asserting petty (and patently untrue) gossip as though it were fact.... even with the most 'compassionate' and well-written of books, points get missed and misconstrued quite often..subsequent real life applications of content found in self-help books can get mighty tricky....and it's why we have sites such as this to help with the same. And the thing is, most authors I know are grateful for this active engagement--it tells them folks are really digging into it and trying it on and wanting to learn...assuming that's the over-riding value. Carla ========================================================= > > > > > > It's not 'just words' > > > It is 'just a thought' and that is all it is; it's not real > > > ivor > > > Re: [ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: what is the difference > > > > > > > > > > Recent Activity > > > > - 10 > > New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJnZm\ 90azc5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1NjE5Mjg3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MTI0OARzZWMDdnRsBH\ NsawN2bWJycwRzdGltZQMxMjU1NzI3NDE3> > > > > Visit Your Group > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ACT_for_the_Public;_ylc=X3oDMTJmOG9nYmE5BF9TAzk3M\ zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzE1NjE5Mjg3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTA2MTI0OARzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0a\ W1lAzEyNTU3Mjc0MTc-> > > Give Back > > > > Yahoo! for Good<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJuZ3JmZHVpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BF9wAzEEZ3JwSW\ QDMTU2MTkyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYxMjQ4BHNlYwNuY21vZARzbGsDYnJhbmQEc3RpbWUDMTI1NT\ cyNzQxNw--;_ylg=1/SIG=11314uv3k/**http%3A//brand.yahoo.com/forgood> > > > > Get inspired > > > > by a good cause. > > Y! Toolbar > > > > Get it Free!<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJwYTA0aTlkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BF9wAzIEZ3JwS\ WQDMTU2MTkyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYxMjQ4BHNlYwNuY21vZARzbGsDdG9vbGJhcgRzdGltZQMxM\ jU1NzI3NDE3;_ylg=1/SIG=11c6dvmk9/**http%3A//toolbar.yahoo.com/%3F.cpdl=ygrps> > > > > easy 1-click access > > > > to your groups. > > Yahoo! Groups > > > > Start a group<http://groups.yahoo.com/start;_ylc=X3oDMTJwaXVrZGVkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BF9wAzM\ EZ3JwSWQDMTU2MTkyODcEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDYxMjQ4BHNlYwNuY21vZARzbGsDZ3JvdXBzMgRzdGl\ tZQMxMjU1NzI3NDE3> > > > > in 3 easy steps. > > > > Connect with others. > > . > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry Re: what is the difference   Russ, You need to relax and not be so defensive and learn to not take things so personally. You clearly are uncomfortable with my cautionary remarks and that's just something you will need to learn to live with. Please stick to the content of the debate/disagreement and leave your unprofessional personal attacks and drudging up old resentments off the site. Thank You, Carla > > > > > > between mindfulness based cbt and act? > > > > > > I have got myself yet another book, I am raring to go full of optomism > as with previous books and yet like other books,(GOOYM, HAP TRAP) will > probaly never finish it. > > > Hope u r all well > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.9/2426 - Release Date: 10/09/09 > 18:43:00 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.13/2432 - Release Date: 10/13/09 > 06:35:00 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Thanks, Helena. Words and their meanings have always meant a great deal to me so it's been quite a revelation in ACT to understand that it is we, me and you, who have assigned a great deal of the meaning, whether intentionally or not. And that we can play with this to give ourselves more freedom. The harder thing for me to learn was that, first and foremost, our brain is the best tool we have for solving problems and communicating and ACT is not be used as an excuse to abdicate that role. Whatever reality is, it's been a hard thing for me to face and I have to admit I've looked for a lot of exits. I don't want ACT to be another one. :-) Take care, Christie > > > > > > > > between mindfulness based cbt and act? > > > > > > > > I have got myself yet another book, I am raring to go full of optomism > > as with previous books and yet like other books,(GOOYM, HAP TRAP) will > > probaly never finish it. > > > > Hope u r all well > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.9/2426 - Release Date: > 10/09/09 > > 18:43:00 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.13/2432 - Release Date: > 10/13/09 > > 06:35:00 > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Is there a moderator in the house? I would have thought that this sort of posting is totally unacceptable especially on a list like this. We're not here to play " World of Warcraft " are we? People here are here for whatever, personal or professional reasons, but no one should have to be subjected to crap like this. Kate > > > > > > > > between mindfulness based cbt and act? > > > > > > > > I have got myself yet another book, I am raring to go full of optomism > > as with previous books and yet like other books,(GOOYM, HAP TRAP) will > > probaly never finish it. > > > > Hope u r all well > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.9/2426 - Release Date: 10/09/09 > > 18:43:00 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.13/2432 - Release Date: 10/13/09 > > 06:35:00 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.25/2450 - Release Date: 10/21/09 16:44:00 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 And what has all this taught us, Helena? I have found this thread anxiety-provoking, unnecessary, discouraging, and, yes, mean. We are supposed to be learning about ACT here, about actions driven by values, not by emotion. This list is called ACT for the Public, not CRAP for the Public--I can get that any day and I don't have to bother with a list to get it. Christie > > > > > > > > > > between mindfulness based cbt and act? > > > > > > > > > > I have got myself yet another book, I am raring to go full of optomism > > > as with previous books and yet like other books,(GOOYM, HAP TRAP) will > > > probaly never finish it. > > > > > Hope u r all well > > > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.9/2426 - Release Date: 10/09/09 > > > 18:43:00 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.13/2432 - Release Date: 10/13/09 > > > 06:35:00 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.25/2450 - Release Date: 10/21/09 16:44:00 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry Re: what is the difference   And what has all this taught us, Helena? I have found this thread anxiety-provoking, unnecessary, discouraging, and, yes, mean. We are supposed to be learning about ACT here, about actions driven by values, not by emotion. This list is called ACT for the Public, not CRAP for the Public--I can get that any day and I don't have to bother with a list to get it. Christie > > > > > > > > > > between mindfulness based cbt and act? > > > > > > > > > > I have got myself yet another book, I am raring to go full of optomism > > > as with previous books and yet like other books,(GOOYM, HAP TRAP) will > > > probaly never finish it. > > > > > Hope u r all well > > > > > > > > > > Dawn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.9/2426 - Release Date: 10/09/09 > > > 18:43:00 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > > Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.13/2432 - Release Date: 10/13/09 > > > 06:35:00 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.25/2450 - Release Date: 10/21/09 16:44:00 > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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