Guest guest Posted December 24, 2005 Report Share Posted December 24, 2005 I'm not aware of specific problems with either scenario. The following are strictly my educated opinions, for what they're worth. I recently read on the web an article referencing a 1989 study about dioxins leaching into milk from paper containers. The claim was the quantity was well below federal maximums. Dioxins could be pulled from plastic or paper containers by the fat in milk, but I personally question the liklihood of it or even the presence of significant quantities of dioxins without the addition of heat. There are other fat soluble nasties in plastics, though. I haven't yet researched the notion of dioxins leaching into water at freezer temperatures. Generally, the rate of a chemical reaction, including the creation of solutions, as in these cases, doubles with each increase of 10-20 degrees Celsius. Of course, there are exceptions to every rule, but, generally, chemical changes happen more readily with increasing heat. Carbon dioxide, carbonation, dissolved in water is carbonic acid. Soda is quite acidic, some more than others. Acidity will increase the rate of some reactions, though alkalinity is preferred by others. This *could* cause the plastic bottles to more quickly disslove. I personally use plastic milk and soda containers with no more than miniscule concern as long as they are not and have not been hot. I'm more hesitant about drinking water from a PETE (soda, # 1 in recycling terms) bottle on a hot summer day if it's been in the sun. If you smell the inside of an empty soda bottle (after rinsing), it has a distinct odor, negligible when cold, but more noticeable when hot. Chemistry aside, I prefer not to drink that smell. Polypropylene, # 5, is more inert and is my preferred choice for a (cheap) water bottle while hiking, boating, etc. It is also used for storing acidic chemicals in labs. For some acids, it works better than glass. It's no good for alkaline substances, though, but we humans drink little that's alkaline. Stainless steel is best for a water bottle but expensive and hard to find for sale. I'm diverging much now, but PVC baby teethers are very scary to me. They're heavily laden with plasticizers to get unadulterated, very hard, PVC soft enough for babies to chew and saliva is an excellent solvent. Following is a good link describing the basics and it's seemingly unbiased by the plastics industry. I like the quote from an American Plastics Council ad calling plastics " an important part of your healthy diet " . I don't mean to offend anyone who works in the industry, but I think it's important to remember it has produced prolific propaganda. Big Plastic knows it produces a double edged sword. Plastics do wonderful things for us, but have some nasty side effects under the wrong conditions. http://www.checnet.org/healthehouse/education/quicklist-detail.asp?main_id=353 wensu baki wrote: >This is interesting information. What is your thought >of Milk in plastic containers? Or even Sodas and >their carbonation in plastic bottles? Personally, I >find I get more bladder spasms when I drink milk out >of pastic cartons instead of cardboard. > > >--- Wesley <inspirfe@...> wrote: > > > >>About 15 years ago, my girl friend (now ex-) worked >>in a salon. She had >>a customer whose husband was a chemistry professor >>at the state >>university in town. He was doing research into the >>toxic effects of >>plastics and foods, specifically microwave oven use. >> He was receiving >>death threats against himself and family, presumably >>originated by the >>plastics industry. They relocated not longer after. >> Being a chemistry >>buff, myself, the 3rd hand information made sense >>and I haven't used >>plastic with food and heat in any situation ever >>since. Dioxins are fat >>soluble, including in foods containing fat. One of >>the predominant >>effects of dioxin poisoning in humans is on the >>immune system, >>especially important to those on this group. >> >>Another concern is diethylhexyl adipate (DEHA), a >> " plasticizer " , added >>to plastics in varying amounts to make them " more >>plastic " , less rigid. >> >>The FDA is doing studies to " put these rumors to >>rest " , claiming there >>is no threat in using plastics in the microwave, >> " according to >>manufacturers directions " . I personally think the >>credibility of the >>FDA in recent years (at least) is suspect at best. >>I don't read much >>anymore about the FDA finding anything that isn't in >>the best interests >>of big business. Re-tooling to manufacture all the >> " microwave safe " >>plastic containers differently would be BIG money if >> and Jane Q. >>Public really believed this plastic danger stuff. >> >>Something else to consider is that chlorine is used >>to bleach paper. >>Dioxins are a by-product of the combustion, and to a >>lesser extent the >>heating, of chlorine containing compounds. I >>personally don't use paper >>towels in the microwave either, but instead heat >>twice as long at half >>power to reduce splatter. >> >>I still haven't figured out a good alternative to >>microwave popcorn . >> >>tom bayuk wrote: >> >> >> >>>> Cancer News from s Hopkins >>>> >>>> this was received from a nursing supervisor at >>>>Greenville Memorial >>>> Hospital. >>>> It was sent to their staff. >>>> >>>> Cancer News from s Hopkins: >>>> 1. No plastic containers in micro. >>>> 2. No water bottles in freezer. >>>> 3. No plastic wrap in microwave. >>>> >>>> s Hopkins has recently sent this out in >>>> >>>> >>its >> >> >>>>newsletters. This >>>> information is being circulated at Walter >>>>Army Medical Center. >>>> Dioxin >>>> chemicals causes cancer, especially breast >>>> >>>> >>cancer. >> >> >>>> Dioxins are highly poisonous to the cells of >>>> >>>> >>our >> >> >>>>bodies. Don't freeze >>>> your >>>> plastic bottles with water in them as this >>>>releases dioxins from the >>>> plastic >>>> >>>> >>>> Recently, Dr. Fujimoto, Wellness >>>> >>>> >>Program >> >> >>>>Manager at Castle >>>> Hospital, was on a TV program to explain this >>>>health hazard. He talked >>>> about dioxins and how bad they are for us. >>>> >>>> He said that we should not be heating our food >>>> >>>> >>in >> >> >>>>the microwave using >>>> plastic containers. This applies to foods that >>>>contain fat. >>>> He said that the combination of fat, high >>>> >>>> >>heat, >> >> >>>>and plastics releases >>>> dioxin >>>> into the food and ultimately into the cells of >>>> >>>> >>the >> >> >>>>body. Instead, he >>>> recommends using glass, Corning Ware or >>>> >>>> >>ceramic >> >> >>>>containers for heating >>>> food. You get the same results, only without >>>> >>>> >>the >> >> >>>>dioxin. >>>> >>>> So such things as TV dinners, instant ramen >>>> >>>> >>and >> >> >>>>soups, etc., should be >>>> removed from t he container and heated in >>>>something else. Paper isn't >>>> bad >>>> but you don't know what is in the paper. It's >>>> >>>> >>just >> >> >>>>safer to use tempered >>>> glass, Corning Ware, etc. >>>> >>>> He reminded us that a while ago some of the >>>> >>>> >>fast >> >> >>>>food restaurants moved >>>> away from the foam containers to paper. The >>>> >>>> >>dioxin >> >> >>>>problem is one of the >>>> reasons. >>>> >>>> Also, he pointed out that Saran wrap is just >>>> >>>> >>as >> >> >>>>dangerous when placed >>>> over foods to be cooked in the microwave. As >>>> >>>> >>the >> >> >>>>food is nuked, the >>>> high heat causes poisonous toxins to actually! >>>>melt out of the plastic >>>> wrap >>>> and drip into the food. >>>> >>>> Cover food with a paper towel instead. >>>> >>>> This is an article I believe you should >>>> >>>> >>forward to >> >> >>>> your family and friends -- anyone who is >>>> >>>> >>important >> >> >>>>in your >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > >>>! GROUPS LINKS >>> >>> * Visit your group " low dose naltrexone >>> >>> >>> >><low dose naltrexone> " >>on the web. >> >> >>> >>> * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2005 Report Share Posted December 24, 2005 Wesley your comments on all this are fascinating and make sense! Nola Re: [low dose naltrexone] plastics--OT I'm not aware of specific problems with either scenario. The following are strictly my educated opinions, for what they're worth. I recently read on the web an article referencing a 1989 study about dioxins leaching into milk from paper containers. The claim was the quantity was well below federal maximums. Dioxins could be pulled from plastic or paper containers by the fat in milk, but I personally question the liklihood of it or even the presence of significant quantities of dioxins without the addition of heat. There are other fat soluble nasties in plastics, though. I haven't yet researched the notion of dioxins leaching into water at freezer temperatures. Generally, the rate of a chemical reaction, including the creation of solutions, as in these cases, doubles with each increase of 10-20 degrees Celsius. Of course, there are exceptions to every rule, but, generally, chemical changes happen more readily with increasing heat.Carbon dioxide, carbonation, dissolved in water is carbonic acid. Soda is quite acidic, some more than others. Acidity will increase the rate of some reactions, though alkalinity is preferred by others. This *could* cause the plastic bottles to more quickly disslove.I personally use plastic milk and soda containers with no more than miniscule concern as long as they are not and have not been hot. I'm more hesitant about drinking water from a PETE (soda, # 1 in recycling terms) bottle on a hot summer day if it's been in the sun. If you smell the inside of an empty soda bottle (after rinsing), it has a distinct odor, negligible when cold, but more noticeable when hot. Chemistry aside, I prefer not to drink that smell. Polypropylene, # 5, is more inert and is my preferred choice for a (cheap) water bottle while hiking, boating, etc. It is also used for storing acidic chemicals in labs. For some acids, it works better than glass. It's no good for alkaline substances, though, but we humans drink little that's alkaline. Stainless steel is best for a water bottle but expensive and hard to find for sale.I'm diverging much now, but PVC baby teethers are very scary to me. They're heavily laden with plasticizers to get unadulterated, very hard, PVC soft enough for babies to chew and saliva is an excellent solvent.Following is a good link describing the basics and it's seemingly unbiased by the plastics industry. I like the quote from an American Plastics Council ad calling plastics "an important part of your healthy diet". I don't mean to offend anyone who works in the industry, but I think it's important to remember it has produced prolific propaganda. Big Plastic knows it produces a double edged sword. Plastics do wonderful things for us, but have some nasty side effects under the wrong conditions.http://www.checnet.org/healthehouse/education/quicklist-detail.asp?main_id=353wensu baki wrote:>This is interesting information. What is your thought>of Milk in plastic containers? Or even Sodas and>their carbonation in plastic bottles? Personally, I>find I get more bladder spasms when I drink milk out>of pastic cartons instead of cardboard.>>>--- Wesley <inspirfe@...> wrote:>> >>>About 15 years ago, my girl friend (now ex-) worked>>in a salon. She had >>a customer whose husband was a chemistry professor>>at the state >>university in town. He was doing research into the>>toxic effects of >>plastics and foods, specifically microwave oven use.>> He was receiving >>death threats against himself and family, presumably>>originated by the >>plastics industry. They relocated not longer after.>> Being a chemistry >>buff, myself, the 3rd hand information made sense>>and I haven't used >>plastic with food and heat in any situation ever>>since. Dioxins are fat >>soluble, including in foods containing fat. One of>>the predominant >>effects of dioxin poisoning in humans is on the>>immune system, >>especially important to those on this group.>>>>Another concern is diethylhexyl adipate (DEHA), a>>"plasticizer", added >>to plastics in varying amounts to make them "more>>plastic", less rigid.>>>>The FDA is doing studies to "put these rumors to>>rest", claiming there >>is no threat in using plastics in the microwave,>>"according to >>manufacturers directions". I personally think the>>credibility of the >>FDA in recent years (at least) is suspect at best. >>I don't read much >>anymore about the FDA finding anything that isn't in>>the best interests >>of big business. Re-tooling to manufacture all the>>"microwave safe" >>plastic containers differently would be BIG money if>> and Jane Q. >>Public really believed this plastic danger stuff.>>>>Something else to consider is that chlorine is used>>to bleach paper. >>Dioxins are a by-product of the combustion, and to a>>lesser extent the >>heating, of chlorine containing compounds. I>>personally don't use paper >>towels in the microwave either, but instead heat>>twice as long at half >>power to reduce splatter. >>>>I still haven't figured out a good alternative to>>microwave popcorn .>>>>tom bayuk wrote:>>>> >>>>>> Cancer News from s Hopkins>>>>>>>> this was received from a nursing supervisor at>>>>Greenville Memorial>>>> Hospital.>>>> It was sent to their staff.>>>>>>>> Cancer News from s Hopkins:>>>> 1. No plastic containers in micro.>>>> 2. No water bottles in freezer.>>>> 3. No plastic wrap in microwave.>>>>>>>> s Hopkins has recently sent this out in>>>> >>>>>>its>> >>>>>>newsletters. This>>>> information is being circulated at Walter >>>>Army Medical Center.>>>> Dioxin>>>> chemicals causes cancer, especially breast>>>> >>>>>>cancer.>> >>>>>> Dioxins are highly poisonous to the cells of>>>> >>>>>>our>> >>>>>>bodies. Don't freeze>>>> your>>>> plastic bottles with water in them as this>>>>releases dioxins from the>>>> plastic>>>>>>>>>>>> Recently, Dr. Fujimoto, Wellness>>>> >>>>>>Program>> >>>>>>Manager at Castle>>>> Hospital, was on a TV program to explain this>>>>health hazard. He talked>>>> about dioxins and how bad they are for us.>>>>>>>> He said that we should not be heating our food>>>> >>>>>>in>> >>>>>>the microwave using>>>> plastic containers. This applies to foods that>>>>contain fat.>>>> He said that the combination of fat, high>>>> >>>>>>heat,>> >>>>>>and plastics releases>>>> dioxin>>>> into the food and ultimately into the cells of>>>> >>>>>>the>> >>>>>>body. Instead, he>>>> recommends using glass, Corning Ware or>>>> >>>>>>ceramic>> >>>>>>containers for heating>>>> food. You get the same results, only without>>>> >>>>>>the>> >>>>>>dioxin.>>>>>>>> So such things as TV dinners, instant ramen>>>> >>>>>>and>> >>>>>>soups, etc., should be>>>> removed from t he container and heated in>>>>something else. Paper isn't>>>> bad>>>> but you don't know what is in the paper. It's>>>> >>>>>>just>> >>>>>>safer to use tempered>>>> glass, Corning Ware, etc.>>>>>>>> He reminded us that a while ago some of the>>>> >>>>>>fast>> >>>>>>food restaurants moved>>>> away from the foam containers to paper. The>>>> >>>>>>dioxin>> >>>>>>problem is one of the>>>> reasons.>>>>>>>> Also, he pointed out that Saran wrap is just>>>> >>>>>>as>> >>>>>>dangerous when placed>>>> over foods to be cooked in the microwave. As>>>> >>>>>>the>> >>>>>>food is nuked, the>>>> high heat causes poisonous toxins to actually!>>>>melt out of the plastic>>>> wrap>>>> and drip into the food.>>>>>>>> Cover food with a paper towel instead.>>>>>>>> This is an article I believe you should>>>> >>>>>>forward to>> >>>>>> your family and friends -- anyone who is>>>> >>>>>>important>> >>>>>>in your>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------> >>>>! GROUPS LINKS>>>>>> * Visit your group "low dose naltrexone>>> >>> >>>>><low dose naltrexone>">>on the web.>> >>>>> >>> * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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