Re: OT ALS does represent with Scarring/plaques/sclerosis

[Guest guest]

I agree with everything except parts of your first paragraph but am

prepared to admit I am wrong (first time for everything LOL) if you can

find me someone with a confirmed ALS diagnosis (without MS or other

disease with plaques) who has plaques. Nerves dying which is what

happens in ALS/PLS does not result in plaques or scarring.

When ALS was first identified as a specific disease it was by the guy

who had done the same for MS a year or two earlier and my guess is that

he gave it a similar name to MS with the sclerosis bit in the name based

purely on similar symptoms. Nobody I know of with ALS/PLS who has had

an MRI has had plaques, in fact from what I know (and I have been

reading up on ALS and PLS for 13 years) if any evidence of plaques

existed the diagnosis would not ALS/PLS, but probably MS. I am one of

the very few people I know of with ALS/PLS whose MRI showed anything

abnormal at all - an area of unusual brain signalling, but not a plaque.

The only way to definitively diagnose ALS/PLS is postmortem and nobody I

know of is that keen to find out. :-)

[Guest guest]

Hi great article ,but also there is Primary Lateral

Sclerosis . It is also a Motor Neuron Disease . I can say first hand

that the the Electro Diagnostics and Lab work show absolutely

Nothing abnormal . Im a PLS patient 6 yrs. No Muscle atrophy only

ridgity and i can say for myself absolutely no pain ,others talk of

spasms and pain ,I had some cramps at the beginning but in the last

2 yrs. none . To test your self to see if your Motor Neurons fire

right try to knock on a door really fast,or sit with your hands in

our lap and try and flip your hands over and over real fast ,This

will show how fast the signal from the Brain gets there .I had a

spinal tap also with a clean outcome . I should be a healthy guy

GEO

>

> ALS does have lesions. Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis. Sclerosis =

> scarring or hardening. Multiple sclerosis = more than one area of

> scarring. ALS is also one of the diseases that is mistaken for

ms.

> It has similar symptoms and the scarring. Many ALS patients are

> initially diagnosed or thought to have ms.

>

>

> And Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), often referred to as " Lou

> Gehrig's disease, " is a progressive neurodegenerative disease that

> affects nerve cells in the brain and the spinal cord. Motor

neurons

> reach from the brain to the spinal cord and from the spinal cord

to

> the muscles throughout the body. The progressive degeneration of

the

> motor neurons in ALS eventually lead to their death. When the

motor

> neurons die, the ability of the brain to initiate and control

muscle

> movement is lost. With voluntary muscle action progressively

> affected, patients in the later stages of the disease may become

> totally paralyzed. Yet, through it all, for the vast majority of

> people, their minds remain unaffected.

>

> A-myo-trophic comes from the Greek language. " A " means no or

> negative. " Myo " refers to muscle, and " Trophic " means nourishment--

-

> " No muscle nourishment. " When a muscle has no nourishment,

> it " atrophies " or wastes away. " Lateral " identifies the areas in a

> person's spinal cord where portions of the nerve cells that signal

> and control the muscles are located. As this area degenerates it

> leads to scarring or hardening ( " sclerosis " ) in the region.

>

> As motor neurons degenerate, they can no longer send impulses to

the

> muscle fibers that normally result in muscle movement. Early

symptoms

> of ALS often include increasing muscle weakness, especially

involving

> the arms and legs, speech, swallowing or breathing. When muscles

no

> longer receive the messages from the motor neurons that they

require

> to function, the muscles begin to atrophy (become smaller). Limbs

> begin to look " thinner " as muscle tissue atrophies.

>

>

>

>

>

> What Types of Nerves Make Your Body Work Properly?

> (from Living with ALS, Manual 1: What's It All About?)

>

>

> The body has many kinds of nerves. There are those involved

in

> the process of thinking, memory, and of detecting sensations (such

as

> hot/cold, sharp/dull), and others for vision, hearing, and other

> bodily functions. The nerves that are affected when you have ALS

are

> the motor neurons that provide voluntary movements and muscle

power.

> Examples of voluntary movements are your making the effort to

reach

> for the phone or step off a curb; these actions are controlled by

the

> muscles in the arms and legs.

>

>

> The heart and the digestive system are also made of muscle

but

> a different kind, and their movements are not under voluntary

> control. When your heart beats or a meal is digested, it all

happens

> automatically. Therefore, the heart and digestive system are not

> involved in ALS. Breathing also may seem to be involuntary.

Remember,

> though, while you cannot stop your heart, you can hold your

breath -

> so be aware that ALS may eventually have an impact on breathing.

>

>

>

>

> Although the cause of ALS is not completely understood, the recent

> years have brought a wealth of new scientific understanding

regarding

> the physiology of this disease.

>

> While there is not a cure or treatment today that halts or

reverses

> ALS, there is one FDA approved drug, Rilutek®, that modestly slows

> the progression of ALS as well as several other drugs in clinical

> trials that hold promise.

>

>

>

>

>

> Causes

>

> ALS is not a disease with a single

> cause. Many factors appear to play

> important roles in its ultimate

> development:

>

> - familial/genetic: SOD-I and NEFH

>

> - excess glutamate

>

> - environmental risk factors

>

> - immune system abnormalities

>

> - nerve growth factors:

> IGF-I (Myotrophin),

> BDNF, GDNF

>

>

>

> >

> > > Yes I realize other diseases show lesions. ALS is one.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Go to http://www.neuro.wustl.edu/neuromuscular/spinal/als.htm#alsmri

Scroll down to bottom of page. You will see mri's of the medulla,

pons, midbrain and Internal capsule area's of the brain in an als

patient. Not all show positive mri's but some do.

A very good friend of mine has ALS and told me about the scarring. I

wanted to learn more so have looked some things up. If there were no

plaques or scarring with ALS how do you explain the word sclerosis in

its name? I tried to explain best I could before that sclerosis

means scarring. Plaques also mean scarring. Multiple sclerosis

means multiple scarring. ALS means Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis.

Which means: A-myo-trophic comes from the Greek language. " A " means

no or negative. " Myo " refers to muscle, and " Trophic " means

nourishment--- " No muscle nourishment. " When a muscle has no

nourishment, it " atrophies " or wastes away. " Lateral " identifies the

areas in a person's spinal cord where portions of the nerve cells

that signal and control the muscles are located. As this area

degenerates it leads to scarring or hardening ( " sclerosis " ) in the

region.

When these motor neurons degenerate, they can no longer send impulses

to the muscle fibers that normally result in muscle movement.

The diagnoses has been ms for alot of people with ALS.

There is also a new form of mri imaging out called mrs. It provides

a clearer snapshot of brain chemistry in ALS patients. Thus

providing a better diagnostic tool. Also ALS has been confused with

Lymes disease like ms has. People with ALS can also have a postive

spinal tap showing high glutamate levels.

What guy that did the same for ms years ago? ALS was named after a

baseball player called Lou Gehrig who came down with the disease.

..

>

> I agree with everything except parts of your first paragraph but am

> prepared to admit I am wrong (first time for everything LOL) if you

can

> find me someone with a confirmed ALS diagnosis (without MS or other

> disease with plaques) who has plaques. Nerves dying which is what

> happens in ALS/PLS does not result in plaques or scarring.

>

> When ALS was first identified as a specific disease it was by the

guy

> who had done the same for MS a year or two earlier and my guess is

that

> he gave it a similar name to MS with the sclerosis bit in the name

based

> purely on similar symptoms. Nobody I know of with ALS/PLS who has

had

> an MRI has had plaques, in fact from what I know (and I have been

> reading up on ALS and PLS for 13 years) if any evidence of plaques

> existed the diagnosis would not ALS/PLS, but probably MS. I am one

of

> the very few people I know of with ALS/PLS whose MRI showed

anything

> abnormal at all - an area of unusual brain signalling, but not a

plaque.

>

> The only way to definitively diagnose ALS/PLS is postmortem and

nobody I

> know of is that keen to find out. :-)

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Geo,

I am glad you liked the article. I have read abit about primary

lateral. It will be awhile before I can learn the differences

between the motor neuron diseases. Sadly there are so many of them

:0(

I wish my ms brain would remember all I read.

I'm glad you don't have pain. How long have you been taking the

LDN? I could try knocking on the door really fast but the dogs would

bark and wake up the other half ;op I have done the hand flipping

numerous times at my neuro's. So thats to test how fast the brain

signals are? I use to have a link to a site that explained what all

the tests were suppose to indicate. I'm sure the office tests are

similiar for ms and pls.

Good luck with the LDN!

Take Care

>

> Hi great article ,but also there is Primary Lateral

> Sclerosis . It is also a Motor Neuron Disease . I can say first

hand

> that the the Electro Diagnostics and Lab work show absolutely

> Nothing abnormal . Im a PLS patient 6 yrs.

[Guest guest]

,

Geez, Louise! I should have been reading the posts more often

lately! , the information you posted regarding ALS was very

informative and appreciated...and correct, based on my extensive

reading of ALS literature.

In fact I have been diagnosed with ALS (MND diagnosis 11/04, ALS

diagnosis 04/05. In the process of diagnosing me, of course MS had

to be ruled out due to the similarity of symptoms in the earlier

stages. My MRI did in fact show plaques, however, my neurologist

said they would be unrelated to a diagnosis of MS. So, due to my

progression etc., I have been diagnosed with ALS by an extremely

competent neurologist who specializes in MS. The findings were

reviewed and concurred with by the leading neuro specializing in ALS

in my area. I have not asked the members of my ALS support group

whether or not they also had plaques, but I can be sure to do so at

our next meeting.

Incidentally, I pick up my prescription for ldn tomorrow, so my

first dose will be tomorrow night. My neuro felt that ldn may be

helpful, and certainly wouldn't hurt. He is pro ldn for MS and will

not prescribe the CRAB's to his MS patients due to his feelings

regarding their toxicity. I have been started on a dose of 3.0.

You are both welcome to agree to disagree, however in fact I do have

plaques (non-MS related) and ALS. I do hope this clears it up...and

didn't have to go find anyone--I've been a member here for a

few months.

>

> OK, we will have to agree to disagree. As I said, I don't know

anyone

> with ALS who has plaques and my understanding is that if they had

> PLAQUES the diagnosis would not be ALS, but probably MS. Your

challenge

> still exists - find me someone with actual plaques or scarring who

has a

> confirmed ALS diagnosis and I will eat my words.

>

[Guest guest]

Oh Geez Cath! I had kinda hoped that you wouldn't be reading! You

don't need the added stress! I think it was mentioned that stress is a

no no for LDN. We need you stressfree to start!

You go girl!!!!!!! I know the LDN is going to do great things for you!

Big hugs

>

> ,

>

> Geez, Louise! I should have been reading the posts more often

> lately! , the information you posted regarding ALS was very

> informative and appreciated...and correct, based on my extensive

> reading of ALS literature.

>

> In fact I have been diagnosed with ALS (MND diagnosis 11/04, ALS

> diagnosis 04/05.

[Guest guest]

,

He did not mentioned the plaques being due to hypersignaling.

However, I do recall him saying they were in an area that one would

not generally find lesions indicating MS. (Also, he mentioned

something about the shape?) I do not recall what area of the brain

he told me they were in, but I will definitely ask at my next visit--

when he told me they weren't MS related, I didn't manage to retain

in my memory where the lesions were located.

I'll post after my next visit to let you know!

ps--apparently a long time...I don't even know why that expression

came to mind but when it did, it just felt right. lol

>

> ,

>

> OK, thanks. You are the first person I remember knowing of to

have had

> plaques with a diagnosis of ALS. Nobody else I can remember in

almost

> 13 years with ALS/PLS has had anything show on their MRIs except

for a

> few like me who had specific areas (corticospinal tract) of

> hypersignalling as shown in the link that Louise gave. I would be

> interested to know however if your plaques were actually areas of

> hypersignalling as distinct from MS type plaques.

>

> Cheers,

>

> PS How long have you been waiting to be able to say " Geez,

Louise! " ? :-)