Re: : You are not on the Wiley Protocol

[Guest guest]

I have been offline for about a week, sorry I am so slow to respond

to this, just now saw it.

Lynn, I think you misread my post. I was stating something my doctor

told me, and it is important BECAUSE OF all the controversy around

this issue, that my posts make it clear when I myself am talking, and

when I am telling you all what others have told me.

Last fall, she told me she recommends the Schwarzbein lifestyle

program in all of its aspects except her female hormone

recommendations, and for those she said she recommends Wiley. That

was my appointment in Nov. when she told me to read the Wiley book,

which I never had heard of before that day, and THEN get back to her

if I felt I wanted to do the program. First time a doctor ever has

assigned me an entire book to read before giving me a prescription!

LOL But she is a facilitator, not a dictator. And she emphasized she

is on the program too, AND she emphasized it CANNOT be done the way

it is described in the book, it isn't that simple, she said. Boy, did

she get that one right! LOL

After you all and the people on the other list told me I wasn't doing

Wiley, I asked the nurse at Isis Medicine, with whom I do all

my communicating about my symptoms, test results, etc., until I have

an actual appointment with Dr. Morton in person, and she said I AM

doing Wiley, that there is an anti-Wiley and a pro-Wiley discussion

list/website. I told her both are telling me I am not doing it. She

said, 'you are.' And she went on to say they get calls from time to

time from women on these lists who are upset about some aspect of

what they are doing and she said, we tell them just to ignore those

people. I asked her if she minded if I quote her information on the

lists, and she ENCOURAGED me to write about my process, she said so

that women can see it can work with the right doctor who knows what

they are doing, that too many women have been damaged badly by

ignorant doctors.

I had said all of the above before on this list, and the moderators

have asked me twice not to repeat things I have said before. I have

felt between a rock and a hard place before on this list when it is

obvious people haven't read what I wrote before -- do I repeat my

earlier post, as I did above, or do I ignore them when it is obvious

they didn't read my earlier posts or what? Please don't kick me off

the list for repeating all of this for at least the second, maybe

third time....

I don't plan to be online much this summer, trying to work on my

novel and spend more time outdoors in the mountains where I live.

But I will give regular reports as I get new information.

>

>

> ,

>

> The RL listers as well as the Wiley people have repeatedly told

you: your

> cyclical bioidentical hormone replacement regimen is not anywhere

near the

> Wiley Protocol. Please stop referring to what you are doing as the

Wiley Protocol

> because:

>

> (1) This is factually inaccurate,

> (2) because it confuses new RL subscribers and

> (3) because it is important in medicine to have consistent

terminology and

> to ignore using the correct terms is irresponsible.

>

> Thank you, Lynne

>

> writes:

> <<My doc says use Wiley (and now we know she uses variations of

Wiley)>>

>

[Guest guest]

writes:

-- you need to tell then that she is misinformed. You are not doing Wiley - you are doing the E part of Wiley but that is it. This is why women are getting confused and are calling your doctor's office.

I agree. It is irresponsible to for a physician or physician's office tell people that what you are doing is Wiley. If this is, in fact, what the office personnel said, it puts their reputation for reliability at risk.

Maybe, one of the RLers can phone the office and interview them and straighten this matter out?

L.

[Guest guest]

-- you need to tell then that she is misinformed.

You are not doing Wiley - you are doing the E part of Wiley but that

is it. This is why women are getting confused and are calling your

doctor's office.

In effect, you are doing a MODIFIED version of the Wiley Protocol.

The high E is Wiley - since no other doctor will prescribe such a

high dose of E. But your doctor and her staff are incorrectly

advising people to do the " Wiley Protocol " . That is dangerous. A

woman can go out and buy the book and do it not consulting with your

doctor. Please realize what the issue is. It has nothing to do

with pro or anti-Wiley lists.

This list is a group of women who participated in the DEFINITIVE

Wiley Protocol and were very harmed by it. It can be very dangerous

to misinform people.

>

And she emphasized she is on the program too, AND she emphasized it

CANNOT be done the way

> it is described in the book, it isn't that simple, she said. Boy,

did

> she get that one right! LOL

>

> After you all and the people on the other list told me I wasn't

doing

> Wiley, I asked the nurse at Isis Medicine, with whom I do

all

> my communicating about my symptoms, test results, etc., until I

have

> an actual appointment with Dr. Morton in person, and she said I AM

> doing Wiley, that there is an anti-Wiley and a pro-Wiley

discussion

> list/website. I told her both are telling me I am not doing it.

She

> said, 'you are.'

And she went on to say they get calls from time to

> time from women on these lists who are upset about some aspect of

> what they are doing and she said, we tell them just to ignore

those

> people. I asked her if she minded if I quote her information on

the

> lists, and she ENCOURAGED me to write about my process, she said

so

> that women can see it can work with the right doctor who knows

what

> they are doing, that too many women have been damaged badly by

> ignorant doctors.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> lists, and she ENCOURAGED me to write about my process, she said so

> that women can see it can work with the right doctor who knows what

> they are doing, that too many women have been damaged badly by

> ignorant doctors.

-----> ,

This is exactly what we're trying to get you to see. Calling what

you're doing " Wiley " is dangerous for women with this ignorant

doctors. Very few women can find a doctor that will adjust thier

hormones like you're getting.

Calling what you're doing " Wiley protocol " is irresponsible and I

can't imagine why Isis medical doesn't see that!

Lynn

[Guest guest]

That is why I am trying to be SO careful in communicating the facts

of MY experience as it is happening through my doctor's office, just

as when I communicate with that office what you all are saying. I

should hear from today about my blood test and if she isn't too

rushed, will try to bring this issue up with her again.

I am just the messenger here, and am trying to be VERY clear about

that to both you all and Isis Medicine.

>

It can be very dangerous

> to misinform people.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Quoting what Isis Medicine staff says is NOT irresponsible on my part,

in fact is is VERY responsible of me to report that information

accurately. Thus we can have this discussion that can move the

information forward for all of us. If you don't have the facts, you

can't understand if there is a problem, so I stand by my stance in that

I am just a messenger in this situation. I myself am not calling the

program Wiley, but when I call my doctor's office, I have to identify

myself as being on the Wiley program, for that immediately identifies

me to them in terms of my needs, etc. The front office, the nurses, the

NP and both MDs all differentiate the Wiley program, which they say I

am on, from other hormone programs women patients of that clinic may be

doing. So I can't call and call my program something that doesn't mean

anything to them, I have to call it what they call it.

But that doesn't mean you all on this list are wrong, not at all. But

whenever I call to have them order blood tests, hormones or to report

my symptoms and/or to ask for a call back -- and quickly, I tell them

my name and that I am doing Wiley. When I say I am doing Wiley with Dr.

Morton, they obviously immediately KNOW what 'group'of patients I

belong to, and get my message to the right person and quickly. That

clinic has hundreds, possibly thousands of patients, with the two MDs

and the NP, and it has been there several decades.

But like I said in a previous post, when I talk to today, I will

try to bring this issue up again.

I have seen Dr. Morton change her stance on things over the years, so

if she changes her original stance about Wiley's program, it wouldn't

surprise me at all. She listens to and learns from her patients, which

is wonderful. I just haven't spoken to her myself since November, am

supposed to have an appointment with her this summer. We postponed my

last appointment until I had some more blood tests.

>

> > lists, and she ENCOURAGED me to write about my process, she said so

> > that women can see it can work with the right doctor who knows what

> > they are doing, that too many women have been damaged badly by

> > ignorant doctors.

>

> -----> ,

> This is exactly what we're trying to get you to see. Calling what

> you're doing " Wiley " is dangerous for women with this ignorant

> doctors. Very few women can find a doctor that will adjust thier

> hormones like you're getting.

>

> Calling what you're doing " Wiley protocol " is irresponsible and I

> can't imagine why Isis medical doesn't see that!

>

> Lynn

>

[Guest guest]

Quoting what Isis Medicine staff says is NOT irresponsible on my part,

in fact is is VERY responsible of me to report that information

accurately. Thus we can have this discussion that can move the

information forward for all of us. If you don't have the facts, you

can't understand if there is a problem, so I stand by my stance in that

I am just a messenger in this situation. I myself am not calling the

program Wiley, but when I call my doctor's office, I have to identify

myself as being on the Wiley program, for that immediately identifies

me to them in terms of my needs, etc. The front office, the nurses, the

NP and both MDs all differentiate the Wiley program, which they say I

am on, from other hormone programs women patients of that clinic may be

doing. So I can't call and call my program something that doesn't mean

anything to them, I have to call it what they call it.

But that doesn't mean you all on this list are wrong, not at all. But

whenever I call to have them order blood tests, hormones or to report

my symptoms and/or to ask for a call back -- and quickly, I tell them

my name and that I am doing Wiley. When I say I am doing Wiley with Dr.

Morton, they obviously immediately KNOW what 'group'of patients I

belong to, and get my message to the right person and quickly. That

clinic has hundreds, possibly thousands of patients, with the two MDs

and the NP, and it has been there several decades.

But like I said in a previous post, when I talk to today, I will

try to bring this issue up again.

I have seen Dr. Morton change her stance on things over the years, so

if she changes her original stance about Wiley's program, it wouldn't

surprise me at all. She listens to and learns from her patients, which

is wonderful. I just haven't spoken to her myself since November, am

supposed to have an appointment with her this summer. We postponed my

last appointment until I had some more blood tests.

>

> > lists, and she ENCOURAGED me to write about my process, she said so

> > that women can see it can work with the right doctor who knows what

> > they are doing, that too many women have been damaged badly by

> > ignorant doctors.

>

> -----> ,

> This is exactly what we're trying to get you to see. Calling what

> you're doing " Wiley " is dangerous for women with this ignorant

> doctors. Very few women can find a doctor that will adjust thier

> hormones like you're getting.

>

> Calling what you're doing " Wiley protocol " is irresponsible and I

> can't imagine why Isis medical doesn't see that!

>

> Lynn

>

[Guest guest]

I see your dilemma . So perhaps you should just call it

the Wiley Protocol when you call her office. And then when you deal

with this group, just refer to it as your present hormone protocol.

> >

> > > lists, and she ENCOURAGED me to write about my process, she

said so

> > > that women can see it can work with the right doctor who knows

what

> > > they are doing, that too many women have been damaged badly by

> > > ignorant doctors.

> >

> > -----> ,

> > This is exactly what we're trying to get you to see. Calling what

> > you're doing " Wiley " is dangerous for women with this ignorant

> > doctors. Very few women can find a doctor that will adjust thier

> > hormones like you're getting.

> >

> > Calling what you're doing " Wiley protocol " is irresponsible and I

> > can't imagine why Isis medical doesn't see that!

> >

> > Lynn

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I see your dilemma . So perhaps you should just call it

the Wiley Protocol when you call her office. And then when you deal

with this group, just refer to it as your present hormone protocol.

> >

> > > lists, and she ENCOURAGED me to write about my process, she

said so

> > > that women can see it can work with the right doctor who knows

what

> > > they are doing, that too many women have been damaged badly by

> > > ignorant doctors.

> >

> > -----> ,

> > This is exactly what we're trying to get you to see. Calling what

> > you're doing " Wiley " is dangerous for women with this ignorant

> > doctors. Very few women can find a doctor that will adjust thier

> > hormones like you're getting.

> >

> > Calling what you're doing " Wiley protocol " is irresponsible and I

> > can't imagine why Isis medical doesn't see that!

> >

> > Lynn

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Over the weekend, I realized I should clarify another point in this

discussion about whether or not I am doing Wiley.

I was started on the full Wiley program, since I was told by my

doctor and staff that I had no health issues that would cause them to

modify my program. So the INTENT was for me to do Wiley.

My body could not handle it, beginning the first month as soon as I

began the P, as I have documented fully in previous posts on this

list, so I am not doing the Wiley program as written in the book

because MY BODY couldn't handle it, not because my doctor didn't

intend for me to do it in the first place.

In my opinion, it would be irresponsible of her to force me to

continue with the standard program when I couldn't handle it. If she

had, I would have stopped the program that first month, I felt so

badly!

I deal with MDs and medications so little in my life, I honestly

don't know much about that world, but in Chinese medicine and in the

world of holistic nutrition and supplements, including herbs, it is

all about adjusting to what the body needs. I feel so fortunate to

have an MD who practices medicine this way, instead of trying to

force me to fit some 'standard program.' In the world I live in,

there rarely is a one-size fits all, fortunately. I am sad that Wiley

herself has turned out to be more rigid than the worst MDs in this

respect! She really expects people to do her program as she dictates

even if they are too ill to function and getting worse if adjustments

are not allowed? She sounds totally nutso, sadistic actually.

> >

> > > lists, and she ENCOURAGED me to write about my process, she

said so

> > > that women can see it can work with the right doctor who knows

what

> > > they are doing, that too many women have been damaged badly by

> > > ignorant doctors.

> >

> > -----> ,

> > This is exactly what we're trying to get you to see. Calling what

> > you're doing " Wiley " is dangerous for women with this ignorant

> > doctors. Very few women can find a doctor that will adjust thier

> > hormones like you're getting.

> >

> > Calling what you're doing " Wiley protocol " is irresponsible and I

> > can't imagine why Isis medical doesn't see that!

> >

> > Lynn

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Over the weekend, I realized I should clarify another point in this

discussion about whether or not I am doing Wiley.

I was started on the full Wiley program, since I was told by my

doctor and staff that I had no health issues that would cause them to

modify my program. So the INTENT was for me to do Wiley.

My body could not handle it, beginning the first month as soon as I

began the P, as I have documented fully in previous posts on this

list, so I am not doing the Wiley program as written in the book

because MY BODY couldn't handle it, not because my doctor didn't

intend for me to do it in the first place.

In my opinion, it would be irresponsible of her to force me to

continue with the standard program when I couldn't handle it. If she

had, I would have stopped the program that first month, I felt so

badly!

I deal with MDs and medications so little in my life, I honestly

don't know much about that world, but in Chinese medicine and in the

world of holistic nutrition and supplements, including herbs, it is

all about adjusting to what the body needs. I feel so fortunate to

have an MD who practices medicine this way, instead of trying to

force me to fit some 'standard program.' In the world I live in,

there rarely is a one-size fits all, fortunately. I am sad that Wiley

herself has turned out to be more rigid than the worst MDs in this

respect! She really expects people to do her program as she dictates

even if they are too ill to function and getting worse if adjustments

are not allowed? She sounds totally nutso, sadistic actually.

> >

> > > lists, and she ENCOURAGED me to write about my process, she

said so

> > > that women can see it can work with the right doctor who knows

what

> > > they are doing, that too many women have been damaged badly by

> > > ignorant doctors.

> >

> > -----> ,

> > This is exactly what we're trying to get you to see. Calling what

> > you're doing " Wiley " is dangerous for women with this ignorant

> > doctors. Very few women can find a doctor that will adjust thier

> > hormones like you're getting.

> >

> > Calling what you're doing " Wiley protocol " is irresponsible and I

> > can't imagine why Isis medical doesn't see that!

> >

> > Lynn

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I have been doing that for some time, but that is all the more reason

it is important I quote my doctor and staff correctly when

appropriate in this respect, to separate MY statements from theirs.

> > >

> > > > lists, and she ENCOURAGED me to write about my process, she

> said so

> > > > that women can see it can work with the right doctor who

knows

> what

> > > > they are doing, that too many women have been damaged badly

by

> > > > ignorant doctors.

> > >

> > > -----> ,

> > > This is exactly what we're trying to get you to see. Calling

what

> > > you're doing " Wiley " is dangerous for women with this ignorant

> > > doctors. Very few women can find a doctor that will adjust thier

> > > hormones like you're getting.

> > >

> > > Calling what you're doing " Wiley protocol " is irresponsible and

I

> > > can't imagine why Isis medical doesn't see that!

> > >

> > > Lynn

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You said it !! So you actually DID do the full Wiley program for

one month (like me) and you see what it did to you? Then when we

went back to Wiley with complaints, she told us to STICK TO IT!

Yes I'd say she is sadistic and nutso. The thing I can't figure

though, is how are women DOING the actual protocol and feeling

GOOD?? Thank God for your doctor who was smart enough to realize

this.

>

>

She really expects people to do her program as she dictates

> even if they are too ill to function and getting worse if

adjustments

> are not allowed? She sounds totally nutso, sadistic actually.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You said it !! So you actually DID do the full Wiley program for

one month (like me) and you see what it did to you? Then when we

went back to Wiley with complaints, she told us to STICK TO IT!

Yes I'd say she is sadistic and nutso. The thing I can't figure

though, is how are women DOING the actual protocol and feeling

GOOD?? Thank God for your doctor who was smart enough to realize

this.

>

>

She really expects people to do her program as she dictates

> even if they are too ill to function and getting worse if

adjustments

> are not allowed? She sounds totally nutso, sadistic actually.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

, I know 2 ladies who are doing the full protocol for over a year now and are doing fine. Go figure.

Liz

You said it !! So you actually DID do the full Wiley program for one month (like me) and you see what it did to you? Then when we went back to Wiley with complaints, she told us to STICK TO IT! Yes I'd say she is sadistic and nutso. The thing I can't figure though, is how are women DOING the actual protocol and feeling GOOD?? Thank God for your doctor who was smart enough to realize this.

[Guest guest]

, I know 2 ladies who are doing the full protocol for over a year now and are doing fine. Go figure.

Liz

You said it !! So you actually DID do the full Wiley program for one month (like me) and you see what it did to you? Then when we went back to Wiley with complaints, she told us to STICK TO IT! Yes I'd say she is sadistic and nutso. The thing I can't figure though, is how are women DOING the actual protocol and feeling GOOD?? Thank God for your doctor who was smart enough to realize this.

[Guest guest]

They must be androids!!

>

> , I know 2 ladies who are doing the full protocol for over a year

now

> and are doing fine. Go figure.

>

> Liz

>

> _____

[Guest guest]

What amazes me is that adjusting our dosages to suit our individual

needs is what the Wiley books SAYS we are supposed to do, with our

blood tests and our doctor's guidance. You all have told me that

Wiley later changed her mind about that and became very rigid. It is

too bad she had the right idea in the first place and then changed

it.

> >

> >

> She really expects people to do her program as she dictates

> > even if they are too ill to function and getting worse if

> adjustments

> > are not allowed? She sounds totally nutso, sadistic actually.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I have gotten the idea from my doctor and staff that they have

women doing what they call the Wiley program just fine, while others,

like me, have had to have adjustments. Also, as I have said several

times, my doctor and staff take into consideration past usage of

progesterone and what forms, a lot of test results, not just E and P

tests, etc., before determining whether a woman can even begin any

version of the Wiley program. It all comes down to good doctoring, it

seems to me. I think of my doctor were rididly following what someone

like Wiley said to do, since Wiley doesn't even have a college

degree, I would wonder about my doctor, not about Wiley! Wiley is a

good writer, but as you all have taught me, T. and Bruce F. did

the actual research, and they aren't saying the same thing Wiley is

saying.

It is sad so many women have been hurt by doctors too ignorant to

even KNOW they are ignorant in this realm of compounded hormones,

that they would take someone like Wiley seriously when she says to do

the program a certain way, NO MATTER WHAT IT DOES TO THE PATIENT! I

can see why most doctors would just drop the whole thing. They don't

need lawsuits! And Wiley would be immune, of course, if the doctor

WAS sued!

>

> , I know 2 ladies who are doing the full protocol for over a

year now

> and are doing fine. Go figure.

>

> Liz

>

> _____

>

> You said it !! So you actually DID do the full Wiley program for

> one month (like me) and you see what it did to you? Then when we

> went back to Wiley with complaints, she told us to STICK TO IT!

> Yes I'd say she is sadistic and nutso. The thing I can't figure

> though, is how are women DOING the actual protocol and feeling

> GOOD?? Thank God for your doctor who was smart enough to realize

> this.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes too bad is right. But as she said to the girls in one support

meeting, she MEANT to say that the protocol changes that she meant

were to go UP in dosage -- not DOWN. She was sorry she didn't put

that in her book. Insane!! How are you feeling? You have good

numbers. I just got a very bad reaction to taking 200 mg P

suppositories for 3 nights in a row to stop my bleeding. I was out

sick from work yesterday. All my joints spasmed. I'm telling you I

cannot use this P in these high doses. I don't think I can ever do

it again and the way these doctors talk, they are telling us

standard doses are 100 mg a day of P! Forget it!

>

> What amazes me is that adjusting our dosages to suit our

individual

> needs is what the Wiley books SAYS we are supposed to do, with our

> blood tests and our doctor's guidance. You all have told me that

> Wiley later changed her mind about that and became very rigid. It

is

> too bad she had the right idea in the first place and then changed

> it.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

writes:

Vitamin E (natural and mixed tocopherols, not synthetic) will stop and regular abnormal bleeding.

, please don't make such sweeping medical claims on the Internet. See the RL Guidelines about this. Please quote an authoritative source or your own experience.

Lynne

[Guest guest]

Vitamin E (natural and mixed tocopherols, not synthetic) will stop

and regular abnormal bleeding. Look again at Diane Petoskey's

transcribed tape, I think you printed that out from the LiveRight

list, she tells how to do that on there, the one about women's

hormones, it is in the middle or after of that long post. Given all

of your problems, though, I would really encourage you to consult

privately with Diane, but you may learn a lot when Dixie on the

LIveRight list has her consultation, since she is dealing with some

similar issues. We should be hearing any day now about what program

Diane gives her. Even said she sounds like she is toxic P

buildup, since I have been a go between with D and Isis Medicine,

given D lives in Dallas. But at this point, she is going to see what

Diane says before trying Isis, especially since Dr. Morton is not

taking new patients right now. said to get rid of excess P, you

have to quit using any form of it for several months. So D has done

that while waiting for Diane's program that is based on tests. Diane

uses saliva, not blood tests, by the way. I was going to go to Diane

when I learned about Wiley from Dr. Morton and decided to try that

instead. But I still want to consult with Diane at some point myself.

She is not expensive and I really think she could help balance your

problems, since I have heard her talk for years on her lecture tapes

about all the symptoms you describe.

> >

> > What amazes me is that adjusting our dosages to suit our

> individual

> > needs is what the Wiley books SAYS we are supposed to do, with

our

> > blood tests and our doctor's guidance. You all have told me that

> > Wiley later changed her mind about that and became very rigid. It

> is

> > too bad she had the right idea in the first place and then

changed

> > it.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Vitamin E? Funny I just started taking it again. But it's an old

bottle I found in my closet. I had bought some Twin Labs or Solgar

Vitamin E for my scar after my surgery. I can't seem to use any

progesterone. I can use 45 to 90 mg of vaginal P without any ill

effects. But the minute I go up on dose, this happens to me. I

can't function. So at this point , I feel who really needs a saliva

test! I'm going by what my BODY is telling me! It's happened

enough for me to know that it's the P and that I have overloaded on

it. I have that Petrosky tape on hormones at home. I'll check it

again. Can't wait to see what Dixie will be told to do. Thanks.

>

>

> Vitamin E (natural and mixed tocopherols, not synthetic) will stop

> and regular abnormal bleeding. Look again at Diane Petoskey's

> transcribed tape, I think you printed that out from the LiveRight

> list, she tells how to do that on there, the one about women's

> hormones, it is in the middle or after of that long post. Given

all

> of your problems, though, I would really encourage you to consult

> privately with Diane, but you may learn a lot when Dixie on the

> LIveRight list has her consultation, since she is dealing with

some

> similar issues. We should be hearing any day now about what

program

> Diane gives her. Even said she sounds like she is toxic P

> buildup, since I have been a go between with D and Isis Medicine,

> given D lives in Dallas. But at this point, she is going to see

what

> Diane says before trying Isis, especially since Dr. Morton is not

> taking new patients right now. said to get rid of excess P,

you

> have to quit using any form of it for several months. So D has

done

> that while waiting for Diane's program that is based on tests.

Diane

> uses saliva, not blood tests, by the way. I was going to go to

Diane

> when I learned about Wiley from Dr. Morton and decided to try that

> instead. But I still want to consult with Diane at some point

myself.

> She is not expensive and I really think she could help balance

your

> problems, since I have heard her talk for years on her lecture

tapes

> about all the symptoms you describe.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

But , keep in mind that when I say vitamin E will stop bleeding,

that is common knowledge in natural health circles worldwide, I am

talking about people using it who are NOT using birth control pills

or other forms of hormonal birth control, and/or are not using any

form of E or P. I have no idea if vitamin E will help you as long as

you also are using any form of E, and then the whole issue of needing

to detox from P is also something that I for one know nothing about.

My supplement info is from and for people who avoid hormone therapy

of all kinds generally.

I plan to talk to Dr. Morton about this more when I see her in July,

but I have a hunch this whole field of supplements in relation to the

natural hormones like I am using now is an open field and we all are

guinea pigs. I wonder what my large doses of vitamin E are doing in

relation to my E and P. I am getting my varicose veins back, I

noticed recently, so need to up my E considerably, since in huge

amounts it gets rid of them, and I proved that works for me once I

learned about it from others who used it that way. But taking 2400 iu

of E every day surely will have an effect on my P and E! But I have

no idea what effect, so need to talk to Dr. Morton before doubling

what I presently take. I was taking 1200 iu a day long before I

started the P and E, so just continued what I was doing. But I am not

going to raise the vitamin E until I get more info.

The reason I do wish you, , would consult with Diane is because

she is one of the few people who is VERY VERY knowledgeable about

literally curing so many hormone problems through natural

supplements, but also will understand your hormone therapy background

too, and given your problems, that is SO important!

If I don't get the answers from Dr. Morton I am seeking about

supplements, I too will be consulting with Diane! I just have a hunch

she is going to be totally against the hormone program I am doing,

and she may not even work with me as long as I insist on using it,

but I don't know that yet, will find out at some point, I have no

doubt.

> >

> >

> > Vitamin E (natural and mixed tocopherols, not synthetic) will

stop

> > and regular abnormal bleeding. Look again at Diane Petoskey's

> > transcribed tape, I think you printed that out from the LiveRight

> > list, she tells how to do that on there, the one about women's

> > hormones, it is in the middle or after of that long post. Given

> all

> > of your problems, though, I would really encourage you to consult

> > privately with Diane, but you may learn a lot when Dixie on the

> > LIveRight list has her consultation, since she is dealing with

> some

> > similar issues. We should be hearing any day now about what

> program

> > Diane gives her. Even said she sounds like she is toxic P

> > buildup, since I have been a go between with D and Isis Medicine,

> > given D lives in Dallas. But at this point, she is going to see

> what

> > Diane says before trying Isis, especially since Dr. Morton is not

> > taking new patients right now. said to get rid of excess P,

> you

> > have to quit using any form of it for several months. So D has

> done

> > that while waiting for Diane's program that is based on tests.

> Diane

> > uses saliva, not blood tests, by the way. I was going to go to

> Diane

> > when I learned about Wiley from Dr. Morton and decided to try

that

> > instead. But I still want to consult with Diane at some point

> myself.

> > She is not expensive and I really think she could help balance

> your

> > problems, since I have heard her talk for years on her lecture

> tapes

> > about all the symptoms you describe.

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

First of all, let me correct my type from below. I meant to say

regulate bleeding, not 'regular' bleeding. One of my sources if Diane

Petoskey, an international nutrional consultant with a masters in

nutrition, but I have read that information in so many books,

magazines and health publications over the years, I honestly cannot

remember all my sources. I have been studying nutrition seriously

(just about every day I read something to teach me more) since 1970,

so it is hard to remember all the sources for something that is

common knowledge in the natural health world. The studies on vitamin

A began in the 1960s and there is a HUGE body of knowledge on it, and

recently the Wall Street Journal, which has wonderful health research

and articles that the lay person can easily undersand, had a

wonderful article explaining the importance of the natural mixed

tocopherols and the ineffectiveness of even natural kinds that do not

use the full spectrum of tocopherols, and it goes without saying that

synthetic vitamin E is virtually useless. I have taken the mixed

tocopheral version since I began using vitamin E supplements in 1970,

and have no doubt that is why I did NOT experience the abnormal

bleeding problems so many in my family have had who didn't take that

supplement. My one sister who also took that supplement also didn't

have problems, although she started when she was about 28 or 29,

while I began when I was about 19 or 20. She got me to start reading

Adelle , which literally changed my life, when I was in college.

Our older sister had turned her onto , but that older sister did

have bleeding problems and fibroids, for despite what the

books and other things she touted in those days advised, she never

took the supplements the way my other sister and I did. Our mother

also had the bleeding and fibroids. Vitamin E and I learned this week

by reading a book by Sally Fallon of the WEston Price Foundation,

that vitamin A also, will shrink fibroids completely. I knew for

years that vitamin E would do that, but until I read 'Eat Fat, Lose

Fat " this past weekend, by Dr. Eng and Fallon, I never had heard

about the vitamin A. But they said it took up to 90,000 iu of vitamin

A! And it takes huge amounts of vitamin E too, although with both

supplements, different women will need different amounts for the same

results. That is why working with someone like Diane Petoskey, who

knows how to help women calibrate the high doses to fit their needs

AND TO GET THE RESULTS safely, is a good idea for anyone wanting to

try these methods.

The " Eat Fat " book is a fabulous book, I learned so much! I assume

you have read it, Lynn? I found the paperback at the library, but the

hardback came out last year, as I am sure you know. I will be

discussing a lot from it on the LIve Right list in the near future,

for it taught me so much as well as confirmed much of what I already

knew.

> writes:

>

> Vitamin E (natural and mixed tocopherols, not synthetic) will stop

> and regular abnormal bleeding.

>

>

> , please don't make such sweeping medical claims on the

Internet.

> See the RL Guidelines about this. Please quote an authoritative

source or your

> own experience.

>

> Lynne

>