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Hi everyone,

Well, about the P and ME. We DO NOT like each other.

I think I mentioned that I went to a dr that was not afraid of E and was willing to prescribe it. So he put me on the Femring and Vivelle dot. Well, I did my blood and came back with my E at 48. :( My body just isn't getting it or converting it properly. So back to the drawing board. Unfortunately, this dr. also prescribes the WP and I just got a message from him that he thinks I should go back on and give it another try. ACCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK. I haven't called him back yet to say no way.

So somehow I ended with a little consult with Plourde and she told me about pellet therapy. She has been on it for years (She had a hyst) and is doing great she says. Anyways, this guy Dr. Tutera uses the pellets. http://sottopelletherapy.com/ I just read his little book and boy it sounds great!!!! (But so did Susie Wiley). He explained how the different forms of E converted. He explains how the fake E's (premarin, etc) convert the normal Estridiol to Estrone from 2:1 -to 1:2 and the patches convert to 1:1. I have always complained while on the patches, that my breasts get sore, I get headaches, swollen hands, stomaches, but my Estridiol level are always low. The creams he says are at least safe but to be effective you need big amounts of 5-10mg (or more as J and others along with me know) which equates to 150-300 mgs a month. He admits this is necessary for some women to feel better. But they still create a roller coaster effect. (We KNOW this one). Supposedly the pellets (he uses Estridiol and Testosterone depending if you need it) release a steady normal dose 24 hours a day. If you have stresses, exercise, etc, then the proper amount releases to keep a steady dose. They are supposed to last 4-6 months. He mentions that women who have had hysts do NOT need P. And women who have not need just a bit 10 days a month. He has a chapter on the Myths of P. I thought it was worth the $13 to read the book. It's very small and only 98 pages. It's a bit technical for me but J will love it ! :) He does not mention any side effects but I suspect it's like anything else. I'm going to call his office on Monday and see how much info I can get out of them :)

Just adding more to the pot!!!! And always open to feedback, discussion or a big fat NO LIZ DON"T DO THAT!!! :) Ha!

Liz

From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ] On Behalf Of LaurelSent: Friday, July 21, 2006 6:35 PMTo: rhythmicliving Subject: P and me

asked about me and P.I may well have a lifetime supply of P in my body. No telling if it is actually getting to my uterus. And there is no telling what is happening unless I get some whole blood analysis. Serum and saliva seem to be a waste of time and money (at least they have been in regard to progesterone since I got on the WP). I'm on day 18 of my cycle and I have the loose pelvis and tendons that I notice with P. Oh, and edema too. I suppose I need more E. For me - the edema goes away with enough E as well as any other problem. Enough E and I don't have spotting either. That was the case when I was on the protocol.I tried P again in the winter and it dried up my cycles again. Every time I get scared I do something stupid like put on P which makes me get depressed, put on weight, dry my hair out. I start cutting it because I can't think clearly enough to realize "oh, it's the P induced dry ugly hair that will get better when I stop the P".I finally got a bleed so I'm counting this as day 18. I'm not using any additional P. I strongly suspect I'm packin' all the P I need on my hips and legs (and organs?).My mom (who did the protocol too) senses that the P comes out of her tissues in relation to the old moon calendar cycling she was on. She has noticed that her worst days are on what would be day 21. Can our bodies find the P lodged in our tissues and release it like we are cycling? Maybe the body doesn't just get all the P from the corpus luteum? Or this is some kind of adaptation to the organs and fat being stuffed with P? I'm just brainstorming...I also do better when I let go of that fear ---"what about protecting your endometrium??" I listen to my body. My body loves, like, delights in estrogen. My skin loves it, my guts love it - my immune system loves it. I already took a turn away from listening to my body when I put on so much progesterone because I was letting fear over-run my thinking. "Use enough progesterone or you could get cancer" wooohhhh hoooo scarrrrryyyyy Meanwhile my friggen hair was falling out and I was banging my kidneys to bits. Screw it.I'll get an ultra sound at some point and figure from there. In the mean time I'm keeping myself happy and healthy with E and thyroid, good nutrition, etc. Fear - shmeer. Listen to my body - duh! (-;Laurel

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What's the name of the book and author?

Lynne

He has a chapter on the Myths of P. I thought it was worth the $13 to read the book. It's very small and only 98 pages.

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Hi-

This doctor you mention actually offices 5 blocks from my home and

he's treating several of my girlfriends and one of their husband

too....all are thrilled w/him but one who is having a really bad

reaction to the testosterone in his pellet and is having alot of site

pain from the incision where the pellet is placed. The office has

quarterly " meetings " where they describe their program so I' m on

board to check them out next meeting and will report back their

data if anyone is interested.

Libby

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> Well, about the P and ME. We DO NOT like each other.

>

> I think I mentioned that I went to a dr that was not afraid of E

and was

> willing to prescribe it. So he put me on the Femring and Vivelle

dot. Well,

> I did my blood and came back with my E at 48. :( My body just isn't

getting

> it or converting it properly. So back to the drawing board.

Unfortunately,

> this dr. also prescribes the WP and I just got a message from him

that he

> thinks I should go back on and give it another try.

> ACCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK. I haven't called him

back yet

> to say no way.

>

> So somehow I ended with a little consult with Plourde and

she told

> me about pellet therapy. She has been on it for years (She had a

hyst) and

> is doing great she says. Anyways, this guy Dr. Tutera uses the

pellets.

> http://sottopelletherapy.com/ I just read his little book and boy

it sounds

> great!!!! (But so did Susie Wiley). He explained how the different

forms of

> E converted. He explains how the fake E's (premarin, etc) convert

the normal

> Estridiol to Estrone from 2:1 -to 1:2 and the patches convert to

1:1. I have

> always complained while on the patches, that my breasts get sore, I

get

> headaches, swollen hands, stomaches, but my Estridiol level are

always low.

> The creams he says are at least safe but to be effective you need

big

> amounts of 5-10mg (or more as J and others along with me

know) which

> equates to 150-300 mgs a month. He admits this is necessary for

some women

> to feel better. But they still create a roller coaster effect. (We

KNOW this

> one). Supposedly the pellets (he uses Estridiol and Testosterone

depending

> if you need it) release a steady normal dose 24 hours a day. If you

have

> stresses, exercise, etc, then the proper amount releases to keep a

steady

> dose. They are supposed to last 4-6 months. He mentions that women

who have

> had hysts do NOT need P. And women who have not need just a bit 10

days a

> month. He has a chapter on the Myths of P. I thought it was worth

the $13

> to read the book. It's very small and only 98 pages. It's a bit

technical

> for me but J will love it ! :) He does not mention any side

effects

> but I suspect it's like anything else. I'm going to call his office

on

> Monday and see how much info I can get out of them :)

>

> Just adding more to the pot!!!! And always open to feedback,

discussion or a

> big fat NO LIZ DON " T DO THAT!!! :) Ha!

>

>

> Liz

>

> _____

>

> From: rhythmicliving

[mailto:rhythmicliving ]

> On Behalf Of Laurel

> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 6:35 PM

> To: rhythmicliving

> Subject: P and me

>

>

>

> asked about me and P.

>

> I may well have a lifetime supply of P in my body. No telling if it

> is actually getting to my uterus. And there is no telling what is

> happening unless I get some whole blood analysis. Serum and saliva

> seem to be a waste of time and money (at least they have been in

> regard to progesterone since I got on the WP). I'm on day 18 of my

> cycle and I have the loose pelvis and tendons that I notice with P.

> Oh, and edema too. I suppose I need more E. For me - the edema goes

> away with enough E as well as any other problem. Enough E and I

> don't have spotting either. That was the case when I was on the

> protocol.

>

> I tried P again in the winter and it dried up my cycles again.

Every

> time I get scared I do something stupid like put on P which makes

me

> get depressed, put on weight, dry my hair out. I start cutting it

> because I can't think clearly enough to realize " oh, it's the P

> induced dry ugly hair that will get better when I stop the P " .

>

> I finally got a bleed so I'm counting this as day 18. I'm not using

> any additional P. I strongly suspect I'm packin' all the P I need

on

> my hips and legs (and organs?).

>

> My mom (who did the protocol too) senses that the P comes out of

her

> tissues in relation to the old moon calendar cycling she was on.

She

> has noticed that her worst days are on what would be day 21. Can

> our bodies find the P lodged in our tissues and release it like we

> are cycling? Maybe the body doesn't just get all the P from the

> corpus luteum? Or this is some kind of adaptation to the organs and

> fat being stuffed with P? I'm just brainstorming...

>

> I also do better when I let go of that fear --- " what about

protecting

> your endometrium?? " I listen to my body. My body loves, like,

> delights in estrogen. My skin loves it, my guts love it - my immune

> system loves it. I already took a turn away from listening to my

> body when I put on so much progesterone because I was letting fear

> over-run my thinking. " Use enough progesterone or you could get

> cancer " wooohhhh hoooo scarrrrryyyyy Meanwhile my friggen hair was

> falling out and I was banging my kidneys to bits. Screw it.

>

> I'll get an ultra sound at some point and figure from there. In the

> mean time I'm keeping myself happy and healthy with E and thyroid,

> good nutrition, etc. Fear - shmeer. Listen to my body - duh! (-;

>

> Laurel

>

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The author is the dr. - Dr. Gino Tutera, and the book is called - "You Don't Have To Live With It! " I got it from his website. I looked on Amazon and it seems he only sells it through his website. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

Liz

What's the name of the book and author?

Lynne

He has a chapter on the Myths of P. I thought it was worth the $13 to read the book. It's very small and only 98 pages.

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Libby,

I would LOVE to hear what you think. I feel like my options are zippo and this might be one that will help. I think I might have to give it a try.

Liz

Hi-This doctor you mention actually offices 5 blocks from my home and he's treating several of my girlfriends and one of their husband too....all are thrilled w/him but one who is having a really bad reaction to the testosterone in his pellet and is having alot of site pain from the incision where the pellet is placed. The office has quarterly "meetings" where they describe their program so I' m on board to check them out next meeting and will report back theirdata if anyone is interested.Libby

..

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Laurel- I certainly know what you are going through. It does seem

logical to me to do things that make you feel good! I only took

that Wiley P dose for 2 months and I'm STILL not right with it.

STILL getting bad reactions to using the smallest amount. I just

can't believe it. Obviously, if you are not bleeding, you are not

having problems with E. I wish that there was someone out there who

could tell us just what damage we have done to our bodies and how

long it really takes P to come out of our tissues!

>

> asked about me and P.

>

> I may well have a lifetime supply of P in my body. No telling if

it

> is actually getting to my uterus. And there is no telling what

is

> happening unless I get some whole blood analysis. Serum and

saliva

> seem to be a waste of time and money (at least they have been in

> regard to progesterone since I got on the WP). I'm on day 18 of

my

> cycle and I have the loose pelvis and tendons that I notice with

P.

> Oh, and edema too. I suppose I need more E. For me - the edema

goes

> away with enough E as well as any other problem. Enough E and I

> don't have spotting either. That was the case when I was on the

> protocol.

>

> I tried P again in the winter and it dried up my cycles again.

Every

> time I get scared I do something stupid like put on P which makes

me

> get depressed, put on weight, dry my hair out. I start cutting

it

> because I can't think clearly enough to realize " oh, it's the P

> induced dry ugly hair that will get better when I stop the P " .

>

> I finally got a bleed so I'm counting this as day 18. I'm not

using

> any additional P. I strongly suspect I'm packin' all the P I need

on

> my hips and legs (and organs?).

>

> My mom (who did the protocol too) senses that the P comes out of

her

> tissues in relation to the old moon calendar cycling she was on.

She

> has noticed that her worst days are on what would be day 21.

Can

> our bodies find the P lodged in our tissues and release it like

we

> are cycling? Maybe the body doesn't just get all the P from the

> corpus luteum? Or this is some kind of adaptation to the organs

and

> fat being stuffed with P? I'm just brainstorming...

>

> I also do better when I let go of that fear --- " what about

protecting

> your endometrium?? " I listen to my body. My body loves, like,

> delights in estrogen. My skin loves it, my guts love it - my

immune

> system loves it. I already took a turn away from listening to my

> body when I put on so much progesterone because I was letting

fear

> over-run my thinking. " Use enough progesterone or you could get

> cancer " wooohhhh hoooo scarrrrryyyyy Meanwhile my friggen hair

was

> falling out and I was banging my kidneys to bits. Screw it.

>

> I'll get an ultra sound at some point and figure from there. In

the

> mean time I'm keeping myself happy and healthy with E and

thyroid,

> good nutrition, etc. Fear - shmeer. Listen to my body - duh! (-;

>

> Laurel

>

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Boy oh boy. Why don't any of MY doctors tell me P for only 10 days a

month! Thanks Liz.

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> Well, about the P and ME. We DO NOT like each other.

>

> I think I mentioned that I went to a dr that was not afraid of E

and was

> willing to prescribe it. So he put me on the Femring and Vivelle

dot. Well,

> I did my blood and came back with my E at 48. :( My body just

isn't getting

> it or converting it properly. So back to the drawing board.

Unfortunately,

> this dr. also prescribes the WP and I just got a message from him

that he

> thinks I should go back on and give it another try.

> ACCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK. I haven't called him

back yet

> to say no way.

>

> So somehow I ended with a little consult with Plourde

and she told

> me about pellet therapy. She has been on it for years (She had a

hyst) and

> is doing great she says. Anyways, this guy Dr. Tutera uses the

pellets.

> http://sottopelletherapy.com/ I just read his little book and boy

it sounds

> great!!!! (But so did Susie Wiley). He explained how the different

forms of

> E converted. He explains how the fake E's (premarin, etc) convert

the normal

> Estridiol to Estrone from 2:1 -to 1:2 and the patches convert to

1:1. I have

> always complained while on the patches, that my breasts get sore,

I get

> headaches, swollen hands, stomaches, but my Estridiol level are

always low.

> The creams he says are at least safe but to be effective you need

big

> amounts of 5-10mg (or more as J and others along with me

know) which

> equates to 150-300 mgs a month. He admits this is necessary for

some women

> to feel better. But they still create a roller coaster effect. (We

KNOW this

> one). Supposedly the pellets (he uses Estridiol and Testosterone

depending

> if you need it) release a steady normal dose 24 hours a day. If

you have

> stresses, exercise, etc, then the proper amount releases to keep a

steady

> dose. They are supposed to last 4-6 months. He mentions that women

who have

> had hysts do NOT need P. And women who have not need just a bit 10

days a

> month. He has a chapter on the Myths of P. I thought it was worth

the $13

> to read the book. It's very small and only 98 pages. It's a bit

technical

> for me but J will love it ! :) He does not mention any side

effects

> but I suspect it's like anything else. I'm going to call his

office on

> Monday and see how much info I can get out of them :)

>

> Just adding more to the pot!!!! And always open to feedback,

discussion or a

> big fat NO LIZ DON " T DO THAT!!! :) Ha!

>

>

> Liz

>

> _____

>

> From: rhythmicliving

[mailto:rhythmicliving ]

> On Behalf Of Laurel

> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 6:35 PM

> To: rhythmicliving

> Subject: P and me

>

>

>

> asked about me and P.

>

> I may well have a lifetime supply of P in my body. No telling if

it

> is actually getting to my uterus. And there is no telling what is

> happening unless I get some whole blood analysis. Serum and saliva

> seem to be a waste of time and money (at least they have been in

> regard to progesterone since I got on the WP). I'm on day 18 of my

> cycle and I have the loose pelvis and tendons that I notice with

P.

> Oh, and edema too. I suppose I need more E. For me - the edema

goes

> away with enough E as well as any other problem. Enough E and I

> don't have spotting either. That was the case when I was on the

> protocol.

>

> I tried P again in the winter and it dried up my cycles again.

Every

> time I get scared I do something stupid like put on P which makes

me

> get depressed, put on weight, dry my hair out. I start cutting it

> because I can't think clearly enough to realize " oh, it's the P

> induced dry ugly hair that will get better when I stop the P " .

>

> I finally got a bleed so I'm counting this as day 18. I'm not

using

> any additional P. I strongly suspect I'm packin' all the P I need

on

> my hips and legs (and organs?).

>

> My mom (who did the protocol too) senses that the P comes out of

her

> tissues in relation to the old moon calendar cycling she was on.

She

> has noticed that her worst days are on what would be day 21. Can

> our bodies find the P lodged in our tissues and release it like we

> are cycling? Maybe the body doesn't just get all the P from the

> corpus luteum? Or this is some kind of adaptation to the organs

and

> fat being stuffed with P? I'm just brainstorming...

>

> I also do better when I let go of that fear --- " what about

protecting

> your endometrium?? " I listen to my body. My body loves, like,

> delights in estrogen. My skin loves it, my guts love it - my

immune

> system loves it. I already took a turn away from listening to my

> body when I put on so much progesterone because I was letting fear

> over-run my thinking. " Use enough progesterone or you could get

> cancer " wooohhhh hoooo scarrrrryyyyy Meanwhile my friggen hair was

> falling out and I was banging my kidneys to bits. Screw it.

>

> I'll get an ultra sound at some point and figure from there. In

the

> mean time I'm keeping myself happy and healthy with E and thyroid,

> good nutrition, etc. Fear - shmeer. Listen to my body - duh! (-;

>

> Laurel

>

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,

When it comes down to it, I don't think there is one answer. We are all different and it's just trial and error. If you are still bleeding, and you have tried all the female hormone combos that you can think of, if it were me, I would be looking either at a hysterectomy or other avenues. Or other drs. I am not pro hysterectomy at all, but if it comes down to a better quality of life. (Not that a hyst is a guarantee) I would maybe consider it. I know you are so frustrated and unhappy with the way your body is working. Trust me I know what you are going through, mine is just a different version.

Hugs,

Liz

Boy oh boy. Why don't any of MY doctors tell me P for only 10 days a month! Thanks Liz.

..

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Why are you waiting for a doctor to tell you that? All you have to do us read the prescribing information for Prometrium.

Val

-----Original Message-----From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of

Boy oh boy. Why don't any of MY doctors tell me P for only 10 days a month! Thanks Liz.

..

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You know -- I would love it if doctors would get on BOARD

with this already. I'm so tired of hearing them tell me to take

this crap every day of the month! That's all.

>

> Why are you waiting for a doctor to tell you that? All you have

to do us

> read the prescribing information for Prometrium.

>

> Val

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: rhythmicliving

> [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of

>

>

> Boy oh boy. Why don't any of MY doctors tell me P for only 10

days a

> month! Thanks Liz.

>

>

>

> .

>

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My bleeding is getting better actually. I'm keeping my fingers

crossed that my present regime is okay.

>

> ,

>

> When it comes down to it, I don't think there is one answer. We

are all

> different and it's just trial and error. If you are still

bleeding, and you

> have tried all the female hormone combos that you can think of, if

it were

> me, I would be looking either at a hysterectomy or other avenues.

Or other

> drs. I am not pro hysterectomy at all, but if it comes down to a

better

> quality of life. (Not that a hyst is a guarantee) I would maybe

consider it.

> I know you are so frustrated and unhappy with the way your body is

working.

> Trust me I know what you are going through, mine is just a

different

> version.

>

> Hugs,

>

> Liz

>

> _____

>

>

> Boy oh boy. Why don't any of MY doctors tell me P for only 10 days

a

> month! Thanks Liz.

>

>

>

>

> New Message Search

>

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Lee was never published in a peer-review article nor were his "research findings" ever been able to be duplicated.

, if you are taking 45mg of vaginal P per day, that is a HUGE dose. No wonder you're bleeding to death.

Val

-----Original Message-----From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of Liz Vernand

, what gets me is that ALL the different drs I see, acupuncturists, nutritionists, reg dr. naturopaths, ALL say I MUST use P for the anxiety or just because. And they all spout Dr. Lee. But I don't listen to them. When I do try the P, it's because I keep thinking maybe it will work but I have to keep learning the lesson that it doesn't work for me.

Liz

You know -- I would love it if doctors would get on BOARD with this already. I'm so tired of hearing them tell me to take this crap every day of the month! That's all.

..

..

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Honey - don't I know it!! This is because doctors are going by what

they READ and those stupid studies, not by what we are FEELING!! I'd

love to take P and have it calm my anxiety. It doesn't!! It just

makes me want to kill myself from pain! And I'm STILL a wreck! I

certainly don't calm down. Yes, I like the " just because " theory.

My saliva test for P came back at greater than 1000 last month. My

doctor tells me: " continue with the 75 mg of P every day " . I took

18 mgs and had spasms from hell all up and down my spine. Forget

it!

>

> , what gets me is that ALL the different drs I see,

acupuncturists,

> nutritionists, reg dr. naturopaths, ALL say I MUST use P for the

anxiety or

> just because.

> And they all spout Dr. Lee. But I don't listen to them. When I do

try the P,

> it's because I keep thinking maybe it will work but I have to keep

learning

> the lesson that it doesn't work for me.

>

> Liz

>

> _____

>

>

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75 mg - transdermal, vaginal or oral??? There is a huge difference.

Val

-----Original Message-----From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of

My doctor tells me: "continue with the 75 mg of P every day".

..

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75 mg - transdermal, vaginal or oral??? There is a huge difference.

Val

-----Original Message-----From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of

My doctor tells me: "continue with the 75 mg of P every day".

..

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Sublingual. I can't use ANY method!

>

> 75 mg - transdermal, vaginal or oral??? There is a huge difference.

>

> Val

> -----Original Message-----

> From: rhythmicliving

> [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of

>

>

> My doctor tells me: " continue with the 75 mg of P every day " .

> .

>

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What is 75mg sublingual equivalent to for oral? for transdermal?

Val

-----Original Message-----From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of

Sublingual. I can't use ANY method! >> 75 mg - transdermal, vaginal or oral??? There is a huge difference.> > Val> -----Original Message-----> From: rhythmicliving > [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of > > > My doctor tells me: "continue with the 75 mg of P every day".> .>

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I have no idea!

> >

> > 75 mg - transdermal, vaginal or oral??? There is a huge

difference.

> >

> > Val

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: rhythmicliving

> > [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of

> >

> >

> > My doctor tells me: " continue with the 75 mg of P every day " .

> > .

> >

>

>

> .

>

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