Re: OT - Hormones and orthodontics -

July 22, 2006

Laurel wrote: My ortho said she couldn't work with a women on Fosamax. Hey Laurel, Women who are on Fosamax or other bisphosphonates should not have any major dental work done. There is evidence that they will get jaw bone necrosis! That is interesting because bisphosphonates are supposed to build bone not destruct it! I warn my cancer clients who are on Fosamax or Zometa about

this issue. I have a link to those studies somewhere. Want it? M _________________________________ [influences of applying force during the different stages of estrous cycle on orthodontic tooth movement of rats] [Article in Chinese] * Zhao Q, * Tan Z, * Guo J, * Chen YX. Dept of Orthodontics, West China College of Stomatology, Sichuan University, Chengdu. OBJECTIVE: To explore the effects of applying force during the different stages of estrous cycle on orthodontic tooth movement of rats, so as

to offer an experimental princinple for women's orthodontic treatment. METHODS: 80 female 3-month-old Wistar rats, which had a stable and five-day estrous cycle, were used. They were randomly divided into control groups and loading-force groups. Each group was divided again into 4 sub-groups according to the different stages of the estrous cycle. The loading-force groups received repeated intermittent orthodontic force for four times seperately during the same stage of the estrous cycle. The distance between upper incisor and the first molar on the left was measured. The data were analyzed by One-way ANOVA, S-N-K. RESULTS: There were significant variations in the amount of tooth movement among the groups which received the mechanical force during the different stages of the estrous cycle (P <0.01). There were significant variations in the amount of tooth movement between the groups received force during pre-estrus and estrus (P <0.05). There were not significant

variations between the groups received force during metestrus and diestrus (P > 0.05). The largest amount of tooth movement was in estrus group and smallest in pre-estrus one. CONCLUSION: The effect of tooth movement depended on which stage of estrous cycle was chosen to be the time of applying orthodontic force. NSAID impairment of orthodontic tooth movement. * JB, * Buring SM. Pharmacy Practice Department, College of Pharmacy, Nova Southeastern University, 3200 S. University Dr., Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33328-2018, USA. jwalker@... OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the impairment of orthodontic tooth movement caused

by nonsteroidal antiinflammatory drugs (NSAIDs). DATA SOURCES: Biomedical literature accessed through MEDLINE (1966-January 2000), EMBASE (1980-January 2000), and International Pharmaceutical Abstracts (1970-January 2000). Key search terms included NSAIDs, orthodontics, and tooth movement. DATA SYNTHESIS: Orthodontic dentistry applies mechanical force to generate tooth movement. Since prostaglandins are mediators of tooth movement, it is reasonable to expect that prostaglandin inhibitors, such as NSAIDs, inhibit or delay tooth movement. An evaluation of studies measuring the extent of NSAID impairment on tooth movement was undertaken. CONCLUSIONS: Results from animal studies have shown that NSAIDs can impair the tooth movement process. Until long-term human data are obtained, acetaminophen remains an appropriate alternative to NSAIDs for treating orthodontic-associated pain. PMID: 11197570 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Estrogen and Gums http://www.angle.org/anglonline/?request=get-document & issn=0003-3219 & volume=070 & issue=01 & page=0002 Estrogen reduces attachment loss in postmenopausal women. Many women aged 65 years suffer from osteoporosis. This problem is directly related to the lack of estrogen production in these women. Theoretically, if estrogen were given supplementally, it should reduce the amount of bone loss. But would this reduction in osteoporosis have a positive effect on periodontal attachment in these late middle-aged women? The answers to these questions were published in the Journal of Periodontology (1999;70:823–828). The sample for this study consisted of 59 women with moderate to advanced periodontitis. A sample of 16 control subjects with no periodontal

defects was chosen for comparison. The authors compared the periodontal health of those women taking estrogen with those who were not taking any supplements. The results of this study showed conclusively that the periodontal health of those individuals taking estrogen was better than those who did not have estrogen supplements. This study has shown that estrogen supplements have a positive beneficial effect on reducing periodontitis from osteoporosis.

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July 22, 2006

Oh - I'm not touching the stuff! Thanks for the info, but I'll pass. The one good thing about getting Mom on the WP was that she got off Fosomax! Then the E got those bones very strong. She did the Dr. Lee progesterone protocol years ago and her bone mass went down (and she developed a growth on her thyroid - an all P no E environment). The E (and whatever P is left over) has been great. She no longer has oestio anything. With orthodontics the bone needs to absorb movement. Flexibility! As I understand it, the Fosomax interferes with the process of absorption and building so what is left is not good bone. Apparently it looks ok on the scans. I'll bet someone around here can rattle off the info? Sebring said he wouldn't put women on Fosomax because it ages them. LaurelMy ortho said she couldn't work with a women on Fosamax. Hey Laurel,Women who are on Fosamax or other bisphosphonates should not have any major dental work done. There is evidence that they will get jaw bone necrosis!That is interesting because bisphosphonates are supposed to build bone not destruct it! I warn my cancer clients who are on Fosamax or Zometa about this issue. I have a link to those studies somewhere. Want it? M

July 24, 2006

GOOD LORD!!! What NEXT?? My mom takes this crap!! Can I give her

a substitute? She is 85 and this is what her doctors have given her

for years. Since then, she's had esophagitus which she never had

before. Doctors!

>

> My ortho said she couldn't work with a women on Fosamax.

>

> Hey Laurel,

> Women who are on Fosamax or other bisphosphonates should not

have any major dental work done. There is evidence that they will

get jaw bone necrosis!

> That is interesting because bisphosphonates are supposed to

build bone not destruct it! I warn my cancer clients who are on

Fosamax or Zometa about this issue. I have a link to those studies

somewhere. Want it?

>

> M

>

> _________________________________

>

> [influences of applying force during the different stages of

estrous cycle on orthodontic tooth movement of rats]

> [Article in Chinese]

>

> * Zhao Q,

> * Tan Z,

> * Guo J,

> * Chen YX.

>

> Dept of Orthodontics, West China College of Stomatology, Sichuan

University, Chengdu.

>

> OBJECTIVE: To explore the effects of applying force during the

different stages of estrous cycle on orthodontic tooth movement of

rats, so as to offer an experimental princinple for women's

orthodontic treatment. METHODS: 80 female 3-month-old Wistar rats,

which had a stable and five-day estrous cycle, were used. They were

randomly divided into control groups and loading-force groups. Each

group was divided again into 4 sub-groups according to the different

stages of the estrous cycle. The loading-force groups received

repeated intermittent orthodontic force for four times seperately

during the same stage of the estrous cycle. The distance between

upper incisor and the first molar on the left was measured. The data

were analyzed by One-way ANOVA, S-N-K. RESULTS: There were

significant variations in the amount of tooth movement among the

groups which received the mechanical force during the different

stages of the estrous cycle (P <0.01). There were significant

variations

> in the amount of tooth movement between the groups received force

during pre-estrus and estrus (P <0.05). There were not significant

variations between the groups received force during metestrus and

diestrus (P > 0.05). The largest amount of tooth movement was in

estrus group and smallest in pre-estrus one. CONCLUSION: The effect

of tooth movement depended on which stage of estrous cycle was

chosen to be the time of applying orthodontic force.

>

> NSAID impairment of orthodontic tooth movement.

>

> * JB,

> * Buring SM.

>

> Pharmacy Practice Department, College of Pharmacy, Nova

Southeastern University, 3200 S. University Dr., Ft. Lauderdale, FL

33328-2018, USA. jwalker@...

>

> OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the impairment of orthodontic tooth

movement caused by nonsteroidal antiinflammatory drugs (NSAIDs).

DATA SOURCES: Biomedical literature accessed through MEDLINE (1966-

January 2000), EMBASE (1980-January 2000), and International

Pharmaceutical Abstracts (1970-January 2000). Key search terms

included NSAIDs, orthodontics, and tooth movement. DATA SYNTHESIS:

Orthodontic dentistry applies mechanical force to generate tooth

movement. Since prostaglandins are mediators of tooth movement, it

is reasonable to expect that prostaglandin inhibitors, such as

NSAIDs, inhibit or delay tooth movement. An evaluation of studies

measuring the extent of NSAID impairment on tooth movement was

undertaken. CONCLUSIONS: Results from animal studies have shown that

NSAIDs can impair the tooth movement process. Until long-term human

data are obtained, acetaminophen remains an appropriate alternative

to NSAIDs for treating orthodontic-associated pain.

>

> PMID: 11197570 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

>

> Estrogen and Gums

>

> http://www.angle.org/anglonline/?request=get-document & issn=0003-

3219 & volume=070 & issue=01 & page=0002

> Estrogen reduces attachment loss in postmenopausal women. Many

women aged 65 years suffer from osteoporosis. This problem is

directly related to the lack of estrogen production in these women.

Theoretically, if estrogen were given supplementally, it should

reduce the amount of bone loss. But would this reduction in

osteoporosis have a positive effect on periodontal attachment in

these late middle-aged women? The answers to these questions were

published in the Journal of Periodontology (1999;70:823–828). The

sample for this study consisted of 59 women with moderate to

advanced periodontitis. A sample of 16 control subjects with no

periodontal defects was chosen for comparison. The authors compared

the periodontal health of those women taking estrogen with those who

were not taking any supplements. The results of this study showed

conclusively that the periodontal health of those individuals taking

estrogen was better than those who did not have estrogen

supplements. This

> study has shown that estrogen supplements have a positive

beneficial effect on reducing periodontitis from osteoporosis.

>

> ---------------------------------

> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and

30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

>

July 25, 2006

Laurel - I am 49 and started using " Invisalign " about 5 months ago.

I'm almost finished. And BOY did they hurt!! And I never thought

about the fact that I might have to worry about bones and how teeth

move! However, I may need to get braced up with REAL braces for a

month if he doesn't like the way my teeth look at the end. Those

invisaligns hurt like hell when you first put them in! But I never

thought about hormones having anything to do with pain. Now they

don't bother me at all but perhaps that is because I'm using enough

E. But I didn't know that NSAIDS can screw up movement. I should

ask my ortho about this stuff.

>

> This is for those of you that have a nerdy streak for hormone

trivia

> and questions. (-:

>

> At the age of 45 I'm back in braces. Of course I'm going to

> wonder... how do hormones influence orthodontic teeth movement?

>

> How does menstrual cycle timing of orthodontic adjustments

effects

> things. I got my spacers in my teeth on day three of my cycle.

It

> HURT like %^#%^$%. The full on braces were put on my teeth with

a

> wire on day 17. And they put some more spacers in at the very

back

> which means there is a lot of junk in my mouth. The ortho said

it

> would be really painful 12 hours later and they sent me home with

> some painkillers. 12 hours later - No pain. NADA Breezy. And

there

> has been rapid movement! Is this my imagination? My tendons in

my

> pelvis are too loose. I have edema, but my mouth is happy.

>

> I asked the ortho if she noticed that pregnancy made for fast

> movement. She said she found that there was very fast movement

in

> one of her pregnant patients - except for the last week. (the

last

> week the hormones drop)

>

> I did some searches. It seems that adequate thyroid hormone is

> important for good movement. Any corticoid steroid like things

goof

> up movement some. NASIDS (anti- inflamatories) can interfere.

The

> studies on cycling rats are a bit confusing when it comes to

estrogen

> and progesterone. I need to print that out and read closely.

It

> looked like high E time was good for the rats to get tooth

movement,

> but I'm confused right now. There hasn't been that much study

with

> human subjects.

>

> My ortho said she couldn't work with a women on Fosamax.

>

> Anyway, I copied the published summaries below.

>

> I'm always curious about timing for procedures based on cycling

> characteristics. Is it better to have a breast biopsy in

follicular

> or luteal phase? etc., etc.

>

> Laurel

>

July 25, 2006

I'm working on a write up about hormones, NSAIDs, protaglandins, and teeth movement. It is really interesting and I have a novel hypothesis, but I need to write it up. LOL I've got too many balls in the air. (-:I'm working on the software for the website so I can load Dr. Formby's article. I moved to a macbook so my library of old software is useless. I'm fumbling around, but getting there. It is quite astounding to me how much movement I had in only 4 days. I got the whole deal put in with wires on day 17 while I was flying on P. It hasn't hurt at all except for the irritation on the insides of my cheeks. When I had the spacers put in on day 3, I was in agony. Took 222's which are aspirin and codeine. The aspirin would have acted like and NSAID, from what I understand. I've seen some contradiction about that. I asked the ortho about tooth movement in pregnancy and she said the end of pregnancy was amazing for movement except the last week. The last trimester gets to be more high P and not so E dominant as we see in the second trimester (when women usually feel pretty good - Vliet was talking about this). Dr. Formby said the P is at it's hieght a week before delivery and then it starts falling. As I understand it E steps forward to contract the uterus. So if E steps forward then it is interesting that my ortho said the last week isn't good for movement. Also a menopausal women from another list who wasn't on hormones told me that her teeth moved astoundingly fast. It was a big deal with her ortho's It would appear the years without E got those gums softer. More interesting stuff about hormones, menopause and bones; Fosomax is super bad for the jaw bone. From the woman who wrote me and gave me permission to pass along...About Fosamax: I don't know what role it plays in ortho, if any. But Iknow that it can cause huge problems for oral surgeons who work on thejaws. Apparently there's something about it that can cause necrotic(dying) jawbone after surgery. For reasons I do not understand, thisapparently happens only with the jaw, in women who've taken Fosamax for osteoporosis. Other joints don't seem to be affected. (Aggressive lawyers hereabouts are running pretty flashy ads seeking patients who've had "rottinig bone" in the jaw after having taken F. and had surgery.)So maybe the best time to move teeth is in the P phase of the WP? arrrr arrr arrrr At least something good would be happening while you are depressed and getting fat fat fat. LaurelLaurel - I am 49 and started using "Invisalign" about 5 months ago. I'm almost finished. And BOY did they hurt!! And I never thought about the fact that I might have to worry about bones and how teeth move! However, I may need to get braced up with REAL braces for a month if he doesn't like the way my teeth look at the end. Those invisaligns hurt like hell when you first put them in! But I never thought about hormones having anything to do with pain. Now they don't bother me at all but perhaps that is because I'm using enough E. But I didn't know that NSAIDS can screw up movement. I should ask my ortho about this stuff. ---

July 25, 2006

I'm working on a write up about hormones, NSAIDs, protaglandins, and teeth movement. It is really interesting and I have a novel hypothesis, but I need to write it up. LOL I've got too many balls in the air. (-:I'm working on the software for the website so I can load Dr. Formby's article. I moved to a macbook so my library of old software is useless. I'm fumbling around, but getting there. It is quite astounding to me how much movement I had in only 4 days. I got the whole deal put in with wires on day 17 while I was flying on P. It hasn't hurt at all except for the irritation on the insides of my cheeks. When I had the spacers put in on day 3, I was in agony. Took 222's which are aspirin and codeine. The aspirin would have acted like and NSAID, from what I understand. I've seen some contradiction about that. I asked the ortho about tooth movement in pregnancy and she said the end of pregnancy was amazing for movement except the last week. The last trimester gets to be more high P and not so E dominant as we see in the second trimester (when women usually feel pretty good - Vliet was talking about this). Dr. Formby said the P is at it's hieght a week before delivery and then it starts falling. As I understand it E steps forward to contract the uterus. So if E steps forward then it is interesting that my ortho said the last week isn't good for movement. Also a menopausal women from another list who wasn't on hormones told me that her teeth moved astoundingly fast. It was a big deal with her ortho's It would appear the years without E got those gums softer. More interesting stuff about hormones, menopause and bones; Fosomax is super bad for the jaw bone. From the woman who wrote me and gave me permission to pass along...About Fosamax: I don't know what role it plays in ortho, if any. But Iknow that it can cause huge problems for oral surgeons who work on thejaws. Apparently there's something about it that can cause necrotic(dying) jawbone after surgery. For reasons I do not understand, thisapparently happens only with the jaw, in women who've taken Fosamax for osteoporosis. Other joints don't seem to be affected. (Aggressive lawyers hereabouts are running pretty flashy ads seeking patients who've had "rottinig bone" in the jaw after having taken F. and had surgery.)So maybe the best time to move teeth is in the P phase of the WP? arrrr arrr arrrr At least something good would be happening while you are depressed and getting fat fat fat. LaurelLaurel - I am 49 and started using "Invisalign" about 5 months ago. I'm almost finished. And BOY did they hurt!! And I never thought about the fact that I might have to worry about bones and how teeth move! However, I may need to get braced up with REAL braces for a month if he doesn't like the way my teeth look at the end. Those invisaligns hurt like hell when you first put them in! But I never thought about hormones having anything to do with pain. Now they don't bother me at all but perhaps that is because I'm using enough E. But I didn't know that NSAIDS can screw up movement. I should ask my ortho about this stuff. ---

July 25, 2006

Yes my teeth moved pretty fast too. But it seems that they aren't

getting as straight as they should be. I think they even moved

BACK! But I don't wear these things 24 hours a day. In any event,

it will be interesting to see how hormones play a role in this.

Can't wait to see what Doc. Formby has to say.

>

> I'm working on a write up about hormones, NSAIDs, protaglandins,

and

> teeth movement. It is really interesting and I have a novel

> hypothesis, but I need to write it up.

>

> LOL I've got too many balls in the air. (-:

>

> I'm working on the software for the website so I can load Dr.

> Formby's article. I moved to a macbook so my library of old

software

> is useless. I'm fumbling around, but getting there.

>

> It is quite astounding to me how much movement I had in only 4

days.

> I got the whole deal put in with wires on day 17 while I was

flying

> on P. It hasn't hurt at all except for the irritation on the

> insides of my cheeks. When I had the spacers put in on day 3, I

was

> in agony. Took 222's which are aspirin and codeine. The aspirin

> would have acted like and NSAID, from what I understand. I've

seen

> some contradiction about that. I asked the ortho about tooth

> movement in pregnancy and she said the end of pregnancy was

amazing

> for movement except the last week. The last trimester gets to be

> more high P and not so E dominant as we see in the second

trimester

> (when women usually feel pretty good - Vliet was talking about

> this). Dr. Formby said the P is at it's hieght a week before

> delivery and then it starts falling. As I understand it E steps

> forward to contract the uterus. So if E steps forward then it is

> interesting that my ortho said the last week isn't good for

movement.

>

> Also a menopausal women from another list who wasn't on hormones

told

> me that her teeth moved astoundingly fast. It was a big deal

with

> her ortho's It would appear the years without E got those gums

softer.

>

> More interesting stuff about hormones, menopause and bones;

Fosomax

> is super bad for the jaw bone. From the woman who wrote me and

gave

> me permission to pass along...

>

> About Fosamax: I don't know what role it plays in ortho, if any.

But I

> know that it can cause huge problems for oral surgeons who work on

the

> jaws. Apparently there's something about it that can cause necrotic

> (dying) jawbone after surgery. For reasons I do not understand,

this

> apparently happens only with the jaw, in women who've taken

Fosamax

> for osteoporosis. Other joints don't seem to be affected.

(Aggressive

> lawyers hereabouts are running pretty flashy ads seeking patients

> who've had " rottinig bone " in the jaw after having taken F. and

had

> surgery.)

>

> So maybe the best time to move teeth is in the P phase of the

WP?

> arrrr arrr arrrr At least something good would be happening

while

> you are depressed and getting fat fat fat.

>

> Laurel

>

July 25, 2006

Yes my teeth moved pretty fast too. But it seems that they aren't

getting as straight as they should be. I think they even moved

BACK! But I don't wear these things 24 hours a day. In any event,

it will be interesting to see how hormones play a role in this.

Can't wait to see what Doc. Formby has to say.

>

> I'm working on a write up about hormones, NSAIDs, protaglandins,

and

> teeth movement. It is really interesting and I have a novel

> hypothesis, but I need to write it up.

>

> LOL I've got too many balls in the air. (-:

>

> I'm working on the software for the website so I can load Dr.

> Formby's article. I moved to a macbook so my library of old

software

> is useless. I'm fumbling around, but getting there.

>

> It is quite astounding to me how much movement I had in only 4

days.

> I got the whole deal put in with wires on day 17 while I was

flying

> on P. It hasn't hurt at all except for the irritation on the

> insides of my cheeks. When I had the spacers put in on day 3, I

was

> in agony. Took 222's which are aspirin and codeine. The aspirin

> would have acted like and NSAID, from what I understand. I've

seen

> some contradiction about that. I asked the ortho about tooth

> movement in pregnancy and she said the end of pregnancy was

amazing

> for movement except the last week. The last trimester gets to be

> more high P and not so E dominant as we see in the second

trimester

> (when women usually feel pretty good - Vliet was talking about

> this). Dr. Formby said the P is at it's hieght a week before

> delivery and then it starts falling. As I understand it E steps

> forward to contract the uterus. So if E steps forward then it is

> interesting that my ortho said the last week isn't good for

movement.

>

> Also a menopausal women from another list who wasn't on hormones

told

> me that her teeth moved astoundingly fast. It was a big deal

with

> her ortho's It would appear the years without E got those gums

softer.

>

> More interesting stuff about hormones, menopause and bones;

Fosomax

> is super bad for the jaw bone. From the woman who wrote me and

gave

> me permission to pass along...

>

> About Fosamax: I don't know what role it plays in ortho, if any.

But I

> know that it can cause huge problems for oral surgeons who work on

the

> jaws. Apparently there's something about it that can cause necrotic

> (dying) jawbone after surgery. For reasons I do not understand,

this

> apparently happens only with the jaw, in women who've taken

Fosamax

> for osteoporosis. Other joints don't seem to be affected.

(Aggressive

> lawyers hereabouts are running pretty flashy ads seeking patients

> who've had " rottinig bone " in the jaw after having taken F. and

had

> surgery.)

>

> So maybe the best time to move teeth is in the P phase of the

WP?

> arrrr arrr arrrr At least something good would be happening

while

> you are depressed and getting fat fat fat.

>

> Laurel

>

July 25, 2006

I remember Dr. Formby saying that we could look for the P footprint if the blood work wasn't showing the P. For example, for me, high P affects blood glucose, gives me whiskers, hurts my kidneys, loosens my pelvis leg and foot bones, can give me zits, makes my hair dry, makes me depressed and loopy brained... And now we could possibly add --- makes the teeth loose. Add this. Before babies my feet were 6.5 or 7 .Now they are 8. Before babies my bottom teeth were straight. I have an teeth study mold from prior to the last baby. My bottom teeth are straight. But after that child a later mouth appliance shows really uneven lower teeth. It appears there was so much progesterone during that pregnancy that my teeth really moved. So there you are saying - the P is overwhelming me. You got big numbers on the saliva and your teeth won't stay in place. hummmmmmm On the old literature reviews and studies Dr. Formby posted to www.rhythmicliving.com he said the studies used 20mg or less of P a day for two weeks. He also points to that again in the article he has written. I hope to get things tidied up to introduce it ASAP. LaurelYes my teeth moved pretty fast too. But it seems that they aren't getting as straight as they should be. I think they even moved BACK! But I don't wear these things 24 hours a day. In any event, it will be interesting to see how hormones play a role in this. Can't wait to see what Doc. Formby has to say.

July 25, 2006

I remember Dr. Formby saying that we could look for the P footprint if the blood work wasn't showing the P. For example, for me, high P affects blood glucose, gives me whiskers, hurts my kidneys, loosens my pelvis leg and foot bones, can give me zits, makes my hair dry, makes me depressed and loopy brained... And now we could possibly add --- makes the teeth loose. Add this. Before babies my feet were 6.5 or 7 .Now they are 8. Before babies my bottom teeth were straight. I have an teeth study mold from prior to the last baby. My bottom teeth are straight. But after that child a later mouth appliance shows really uneven lower teeth. It appears there was so much progesterone during that pregnancy that my teeth really moved. So there you are saying - the P is overwhelming me. You got big numbers on the saliva and your teeth won't stay in place. hummmmmmm On the old literature reviews and studies Dr. Formby posted to www.rhythmicliving.com he said the studies used 20mg or less of P a day for two weeks. He also points to that again in the article he has written. I hope to get things tidied up to introduce it ASAP. LaurelYes my teeth moved pretty fast too. But it seems that they aren't getting as straight as they should be. I think they even moved BACK! But I don't wear these things 24 hours a day. In any event, it will be interesting to see how hormones play a role in this. Can't wait to see what Doc. Formby has to say.

July 25, 2006

Top Posting…

HI Laurel and ,

I wore braces for

the second time at age 48-50. They moved very fast and were quite painful

mostly due to on going cheek discomfort (lack of E?) My bite was totally changed,

this time for the worst, and I will probably have to go thru it again. I don’t

think my problems were due to hormones, but who knows? I do take hydrocortisone,

as well as E, T P and Armour.

This is interesting

to me especially if I am headed there again. Please let us know what you learn.

I would have never thought to ask the ortho about hormones. Good for you!

nne

Yes my teeth moved pretty fast too. But it seems that

they aren't

getting as straight as they should be. I think they even moved

BACK! But I don't wear these things 24 hours a day. In any event,

it will be interesting to see how hormones play a role in this.

Can't wait to see what Doc. Formby has to say.

>

> I'm working on a write up about hormones, NSAIDs, protaglandins,

and

> teeth movement. It is really interesting and I have a novel

> hypothesis, but I need to write it up.

>

> LOL I've got too many balls in the air. (-:

>

> I'm working on the software for the website so I can load Dr.

> Formby's article. I moved to a macbook so my library of old

software

> is useless. I'm fumbling around, but getting there.

>

> It is quite astounding to me how much movement I had in only 4

days.

> I got the whole deal put in with wires on day 17 while I was

flying

> on P. It hasn't hurt at all except for the irritation on the

> insides of my cheeks. When I had the spacers put in on day 3, I

was

> in agony. Took 222's which are aspirin and codeine. The aspirin

> would have acted like and NSAID, from what I understand. I've

seen

> some contradiction about that. I asked the ortho about tooth

> movement in pregnancy and she said the end of pregnancy was

amazing

> for movement except the last week. The last trimester gets to be

> more high P and not so E dominant as we see in the second

trimester

> (when women usually feel pretty good - Vliet was talking about

> this). Dr. Formby said the P is at it's hieght a week before

> delivery and then it starts falling. As I understand it E steps

> forward to contract the uterus. So if E steps forward then it is

> interesting that my ortho said the last week isn't good for

movement.

>

> Also a menopausal women from another list who wasn't on hormones

told

> me that her teeth moved astoundingly fast. It was a big deal

with

> her ortho's It would appear the years without E got those gums

softer.

>

> More interesting stuff about hormones, menopause and bones;

Fosomax

> is super bad for the jaw bone. From the woman who wrote me and

gave

> me permission to pass along...

>

> About Fosamax: I don't know what role it plays in ortho, if any.

But I

> know that it can cause huge problems for oral surgeons who work on

the

> jaws. Apparently there's something about it that can cause necrotic

> (dying) jawbone after surgery. For reasons I do not understand,

this

> apparently happens only with the jaw, in women who've taken

Fosamax

> for osteoporosis. Other joints don't seem to be affected.

(Aggressive

> lawyers hereabouts are running pretty flashy ads seeking patients

> who've had " rottinig bone " in the jaw after having taken F. and

had

> surgery.)

>

> So maybe the best time to move teeth is in the P phase of the

WP?

> arrrr arrr arrrr At least something good would be happening

while

> you are depressed and getting fat fat fat.

>

> Laurel

July 26, 2006

nne - I tried to find this out about bite changes but my ortho

didn't say anything bad would happen. I don't know what hormones

have to do with this, but lots of older people are wearing braces

now. This should have been done when we were children!

> >

> > I'm working on a write up about hormones, NSAIDs, protaglandins,

> and

> > teeth movement. It is really interesting and I have a novel

> > hypothesis, but I need to write it up.

> >

> > LOL I've got too many balls in the air. (-:

> >

> > I'm working on the software for the website so I can load Dr.

> > Formby's article. I moved to a macbook so my library of old

> software

> > is useless. I'm fumbling around, but getting there.

> >

> > It is quite astounding to me how much movement I had in only 4

> days.

> > I got the whole deal put in with wires on day 17 while I was

> flying

> > on P. It hasn't hurt at all except for the irritation on the

> > insides of my cheeks. When I had the spacers put in on day 3, I

> was

> > in agony. Took 222's which are aspirin and codeine. The aspirin

> > would have acted like and NSAID, from what I understand. I've

> seen

> > some contradiction about that. I asked the ortho about tooth

> > movement in pregnancy and she said the end of pregnancy was

> amazing

> > for movement except the last week. The last trimester gets to be

> > more high P and not so E dominant as we see in the second

> trimester

> > (when women usually feel pretty good - Vliet was talking about

> > this). Dr. Formby said the P is at it's hieght a week before

> > delivery and then it starts falling. As I understand it E steps

> > forward to contract the uterus. So if E steps forward then it is

> > interesting that my ortho said the last week isn't good for

> movement.

> >

> > Also a menopausal women from another list who wasn't on hormones

> told

> > me that her teeth moved astoundingly fast. It was a big deal

> with

> > her ortho's It would appear the years without E got those gums

> softer.

> >

> > More interesting stuff about hormones, menopause and bones;

> Fosomax

> > is super bad for the jaw bone. From the woman who wrote me and

> gave

> > me permission to pass along...

> >

> > About Fosamax: I don't know what role it plays in ortho, if any.

> But I

> > know that it can cause huge problems for oral surgeons who work

on

> the

> > jaws. Apparently there's something about it that can cause

necrotic

> > (dying) jawbone after surgery. For reasons I do not understand,

> this

> > apparently happens only with the jaw, in women who've taken

> Fosamax

> > for osteoporosis. Other joints don't seem to be affected.

> (Aggressive

> > lawyers hereabouts are running pretty flashy ads seeking

patients

> > who've had " rottinig bone " in the jaw after having taken F. and

> had

> > surgery.)

> >

> > So maybe the best time to move teeth is in the P phase of the

> WP?

> > arrrr arrr arrrr At least something good would be happening

> while

> > you are depressed and getting fat fat fat.

> >

> > Laurel

>

July 26, 2006

nne - I tried to find this out about bite changes but my ortho

didn't say anything bad would happen. I don't know what hormones

have to do with this, but lots of older people are wearing braces

now. This should have been done when we were children!

> >

> > I'm working on a write up about hormones, NSAIDs, protaglandins,

> and

> > teeth movement. It is really interesting and I have a novel

> > hypothesis, but I need to write it up.

> >

> > LOL I've got too many balls in the air. (-:

> >

> > I'm working on the software for the website so I can load Dr.

> > Formby's article. I moved to a macbook so my library of old

> software

> > is useless. I'm fumbling around, but getting there.

> >

> > It is quite astounding to me how much movement I had in only 4

> days.

> > I got the whole deal put in with wires on day 17 while I was

> flying

> > on P. It hasn't hurt at all except for the irritation on the

> > insides of my cheeks. When I had the spacers put in on day 3, I

> was

> > in agony. Took 222's which are aspirin and codeine. The aspirin

> > would have acted like and NSAID, from what I understand. I've

> seen

> > some contradiction about that. I asked the ortho about tooth

> > movement in pregnancy and she said the end of pregnancy was

> amazing

> > for movement except the last week. The last trimester gets to be

> > more high P and not so E dominant as we see in the second

> trimester

> > (when women usually feel pretty good - Vliet was talking about

> > this). Dr. Formby said the P is at it's hieght a week before

> > delivery and then it starts falling. As I understand it E steps

> > forward to contract the uterus. So if E steps forward then it is

> > interesting that my ortho said the last week isn't good for

> movement.

> >

> > Also a menopausal women from another list who wasn't on hormones

> told

> > me that her teeth moved astoundingly fast. It was a big deal

> with

> > her ortho's It would appear the years without E got those gums

> softer.

> >

> > More interesting stuff about hormones, menopause and bones;

> Fosomax

> > is super bad for the jaw bone. From the woman who wrote me and

> gave

> > me permission to pass along...

> >

> > About Fosamax: I don't know what role it plays in ortho, if any.

> But I

> > know that it can cause huge problems for oral surgeons who work

on

> the

> > jaws. Apparently there's something about it that can cause

necrotic

> > (dying) jawbone after surgery. For reasons I do not understand,

> this

> > apparently happens only with the jaw, in women who've taken

> Fosamax

> > for osteoporosis. Other joints don't seem to be affected.

> (Aggressive

> > lawyers hereabouts are running pretty flashy ads seeking

patients

> > who've had " rottinig bone " in the jaw after having taken F. and

> had

> > surgery.)

> >

> > So maybe the best time to move teeth is in the P phase of the

> WP?

> > arrrr arrr arrrr At least something good would be happening

> while

> > you are depressed and getting fat fat fat.

> >

> > Laurel

>

July 26, 2006

Wow. This is amazing Laurel. Never dawned on me this could be the

reason for my teeth moving. Damn - what else???????????? And then

you'll get the usual smirk from the conventional doctor about " well

what do you expect? You are getting older and things happen " story

when you try to tell them about hormone imbalance and what it does

to you. I'm getting mad all over again. Now I've got to find a

totally holistic doctor. They can't have their foot in one door of

conventional medicine and the other in alternative. They keep

falling back on the conventional bull. The Lipitor atrocity should

alert everyone to the danger of doctors who won't learn.

>

> > Yes my teeth moved pretty fast too. But it seems that they aren't

> > getting as straight as they should be. I think they even moved

> > BACK! But I don't wear these things 24 hours a day. In any event,

> > it will be interesting to see how hormones play a role in this.

> > Can't wait to see what Doc. Formby has to say.

> >

>

July 26, 2006