Re: depression,and P peaks

[Guest guest]

, are you still feeling the effects of too muych P? When did you stop the high doses? AND, doesnt Susie say the high E combined with low P encourages breast ca? I think Bent Formby addressed that in his talk, but I cant feel real confident about that, ie that it doesn't promote b.c. Gyana

Yes, I am feeling the effects of tissue loaded P, I stopped it 8 weeks ago, I tried to add 5mgs. the other day, induced a sleepy state and extreme hunger. I feel it still alters my blood sugar when I try to use it right now. I don't think I have "P" in me, but the metabolites from it. I feel my body "sees" P as a threat, sounds weird, but that's how it feels. I am WAY down on my E, no need to use as much as I was using on the WP, and I'm still getting relief, and good day 12 readings. I think we are the next generation of women for experimenting, since Premarin (mom was on that and died from BC). We will be the ones to help see what does and doesn't work for the ones to follow. I don't think anyone really KNOWS all. We can get good insight, and look at how we feel, ck. out studies, THEN hope for the best:)) . RL is a great place for learning and sharing and growing......good women here, some so amazingly smart too:)) Hope I helped, XX

[Guest guest]

You know I don't think ANYone knows what causes breast cancer. For

years and years, doctors had no problem prescribing

those " synthetic " pills without knowing if they caused breast

cancer. Most gynos now STILL want to give me DepoProvera, no

problem! That birth control pill that many of my friends were on

for 20 years or more is now causing problems for them that are not

to be believed. Now, all of a sudden, no doctor will prescribe

NATURAL E without the P.

> , are you still feeling the effects of too muych P? When did

you stop the

> high doses? AND, doesnt Susie say the high E combined with low P

> encourages breast ca? I think Bent Formby addressed that in his

talk, but I

> cant feel real confident about that, ie that it doesn't promote

b.c. Gyana

[Guest guest]

, are you still feeling the effects of too muych P? When did

you stop the high doses? AND, doesnt Susie say the high E combined with

low P

encourages breast ca? I think Bent Formby

addressed that in his talk, but I

cant feel real confident about that, ie that

it doesn't promote b.c. Gyana

___________________________________________________________________________

Hi Gyana,

I have noticed that I get the affects of P

overdosing and then as my liver metabolizes it out of my body the effect wears

off over the days. When the surges of P were coming out of my

Progesterone depot in huge amounts the tampering off took days and days and

more surges would come within surges so it was a long stretch of heavy back up

for my liver. As I understand it, the liver can only deal with so much P

in 24 hours. Something to consider - we are talking about exogenous

transdermal progesterone here no endogenous. That makes a big

difference. My surges come in smaller waves now and less often, but there

is still a generalized P effect so I’m not completely down to a more

normal optimal dosing routine. Anytime I have tried to add progesterone

since late April I have triggered illness. 25mg of progesterone will make

me ill and overload my kidney and suppress my immune system. For me –

if I don’t add the P and just dance with the E I feel really great.

I sleep all night – zonked – like I was as a teenager.

Yes, TS Wiley says a lot of things about

estrogen and hormones. I found it necessary to go back and ask myself why

I ever considered her qualified to tell me about hormones.

As I understand it, there is great debate

about E causing cancer. There are organizations like WHO that say E causes

cancer, but they say P causes cancer too. Apparently, they tortured a

bunch of little lab animals back in the 40s and made them get cancer from

everything. Since then we can use WHO to tell us anything we want will

give us cancer? And then there was a US government panel that decided E

gives us cancer…. But Dr. Formby thinks this stuff is rubbish. He

is plugged into the European scientific community. Dr. Formby says he has

seen no good study that says estrogen causes cancer. My own doctor looks

at the research and he is in agreement with Dr. Formby. I remember

when Carole Clinch was on the group – she was troubled that TS Wiley kept

talking about estrogen as a carcinogen. The idea that estrogen is a

carcinogen is not a slam dunk done theory. My doctor suspects there is

little financial gain to be had if women can use some inexpensive BHRT (900mg

of estradiol in olive oil is $20) and they don’t even need to buy any

supplements. Good food, good BHRT, good lifestyle – happy juicy women?

(-:

What I do understand – is that if

there is a tumor then estrogen does promote growth, but if the tissue is normal

and healthy then there is no good evidence to say that estrogen causes

tumors. Lynne has lots of studies about HRT post breast cancer.

A pro estrogen attitude is very

controversial. You will find ample anti-estrogen information all over the

place. For many of us here on RL our first hand experience is that

estrogen is wonderful. Progesterone is great in balance and too much is

not good at all. Dr. Formby sent me a recent study that too much T is of

much greater concern. And it seems that too much P androgenizes me and

makes me feel like crap. So I’m going with the idea that what makes

me feel super healthy is the way to go.

Laurel

[Guest guest]

- How are we going to know when it's " safe " to start using

the P again? What a terrible week of pain I had!! And guess what

ELSE is back? The dermatitis! And I can't blame the MS cream for

this. I'm using OO. That OO P must totally block my E is all I can

figure. Have you had a saliva test? You know without knowing what

our TRUE level of P is, we are operating blind with these hormones.

> , I was one of those BC pill girls for 27 years, didn't know

all I

> needed was more E in me to live a normal life back then. I hear ya

on the P....

> I did a dot( maybe 5-10mgs. ) the other day, got sedated, joint

pain, flu

> like stuff, still reeking havoc on me.....I started on a baby dose

1/2 gn.

> Natural Thyroid.....I get so exhausted doing anything, only been 3

days, doing

> alttle better today. I think I cut my E back to much too.....down

to 2mgs. BID

> yesterday, and have only been doing 6-8 total for the day

lately.....I woke

> this AM with old pains I haven't had in years....so it's a catch-

up day for me

> today:)) Hang tight girl, you're not alone:))) XXX

[Guest guest]

>

>

> OOOOOOOOOOO , have you read in IMOS, about thyroid and

rashes??? Read

> all the thyroid stuff, I was amazed.....tests don't show all with

thyroid

> either:)) I am using less E and sleeping WAY BETTER too with just

a little Natural

> Thyroid.....may need more but I'm going SLOW, so unlike

me,lollol. Another

> ball to juggle, but gotta try ) XOXOX OOOOOOOOO I was

reading Vliet,

> and she was talking about how she used oral E to down regulate

someone with

> hyperthyroid( SHBG protien effects the thyroid too)....so when I

was doing all

> those oral E testings, bet that helped pull my thyroid down too,

not to

> mention what I've put it through this last 2yrs,lol. So I'd keep

that in mind if

> I were to use any oral E...don't know what oral P does yet. And I

have no

> idea when it's SAFE to use the P, I think I'll have to wait a

bit longer, maybe

> get my E and thyroid balanced first, good luck, I know the

feeling,lol. L

-----------------------------------------------

-

So basically we are guessing if it's lack of estrogen or thyroid

problem and we are guessing because there are NO tests that are

adequate to determine our actual levels. Helloooo ! Are there any

doctors out there ????? What do endos do to find out about thyroid

levels? Surely, they must have ways to find out correct levels.

[Guest guest]

> Hi ,

> I'm waiting to take any teeny amount of P until I have

no " dermatitis " anymore, I still have a bit of itching every P-phase

and through 1-2 days of the period. My body will tell when it's time to

re-start, and I always try the smallest amount when doing so. I have

lately become very tired sometime in the afternoon, with a slight

overall headache lasting for several days and nights, so I've given in

and taken naps, (you did mention being tired too). I think it has a lot

to do with the body trying to rev up enough of that last P-storage, and

unless you do physical work or massage, like Laurel or , it

doesn't really come up to what's needed, yet the take-up of P seems to

still provoke " thesymptoms " ...Mind you, that's just my " take " on it...

> Charlotte

___________________________________________________

Charlotte:

I was hoping the switch to OO would cure my dermatitis. NOT. So

i " m now thinking it's another P surge that struck again. Or I'm

allergic to Olive Oil? Or my E is low again. This is maddening. I

guess I'll try the natural base soon or maybe I need to use the WIP

stuff. Maybe it's purer. It's 2:00 pm and I'm starting with the

pain. My 1 mg of E in the morning wears off by now. I'm doing better

with tiredness though. I'm just not using any P until my body doesn't

react. My doc won't be happy about that but that's it. I hope my

uterus doesn't object either.

[Guest guest]

Endos are generally the WORST docs to go to regarding thyroid..they

look mostly at TSH, which becomes irrelevant once on thyroid

meds...endos like diabetes and they look for it everywhere..thyroid

won't killl you so they don't care unless they can do surgery on you

for suspected cancer - where else do [people remove parts because

they MIGHT get cancerous at some point????....I go by the Broda

method of dx-ing and treating thyroid...low temp and symptoms

and enough meds to make the symptoms abate. Which is how they did it

back before the almighty TSH test came into being in the 70's. I have

a computer virus and so I am writing on an old dinosaur of a 'puter

and may not be on much.

>

> In a message dated 7/5/2005 11:50:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> merryr@u... writes:

>

> What do endos do to find out about thyroid

> levels? Surely, they must have ways to find out correct levels.

>

>

>

>

>

> I haven't been to an endo yet, have you??? My sis went to one and

he told

> her she was to old to still be having periods,lol.......that went

over real

> big,lol, she just turned 50.

[Guest guest]

- well this is enlightening to me! Once again, we are on our own

about treating thyroid. Well what are those thyroid doctors all

listed on the Broda website? Aren't they endos? As you can

see, I'm really ignorant about this.

---------------------------------------------

> Endos are generally the WORST docs to go to regarding

thyroid..they

> look mostly at TSH, which becomes irrelevant once on thyroid

> meds...endos like diabetes and they look for it

everywhere..thyroid

> won't killl you so they don't care unless they can do surgery on

you

> for suspected cancer - where else do [people remove parts because

> they MIGHT get cancerous at some point????....I go by the Broda

> method of dx-ing and treating thyroid...low temp and

symptoms

> and enough meds to make the symptoms abate. Which is how they did

it

> back before the almighty TSH test came into being in the 70's. I

have

> a computer virus and so I am writing on an old dinosaur of

a 'puter

> and may not be on much.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I won't go to one after reading this!

------------------------------------------------------

>

>

> I haven't been to an endo yet, have you??? My sis went to one and he

told

> her she was to old to still be having periods,lol.......that went

over real

> big,lol, she just turned 50.