Guest guest Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 Tamara I have a great recipe for grapefruit frappe I could post...at least your grapefruits will not go to waste! I think Maurice was stating something that has be stated and stated and stated on this list before. GSE is pretty well useless. But I'm pretty sure that if you only keep your product for a week or so and keep it refridgerated it will be fine to use. CS Subject: GSE... Reply... > Thanks for your courage and input, Nerys!!! I " normally " choose not to rock > the boat either, but a purposeful 'ruse' is just ... NOT NICE!! This is a > group that comes together to learn and share experience with one another > ... NOT to judge or to state that one way of performing is better than > another! > > I never stated in my post that I use GSE as a preservative ... and, just for > your peace of mind, Maurice, I was not inquiring about purchasing GSE for > this purpose! I volunteer at a local facility that treats paraplegic > individuals. In the course of my rounds, I help to treat their bed sores > and have prepared a " self-preserved " oil formulation for this use that > contains a small amount of GSE. I hold a masters in both Psychology and > Biochemistry and PhD's in both conventional and naturopathic medicine ... > not that " degrees " matter, as I have always found " practical " knowledge to > outweigh classroom knowledge ten-fold! I asked a question and Maurice had > the choice to remain silent, but instead chose to respond in sarcasm ... I > don't always agree with all that is presented on this forum, however I > " always " respect those who have enough courage to ask a question! > > I will state that I share a fully licensed lab with a wonderful chemist, who > is also a magnificent human being. He certifies lab results for most of the > colleges around the world (he's one of the chemists you hear about when a > study states " independent lab tests show .... " ). > > I first heard about the " bunk " being spread regarding GSE years ago ... > don't know where they obtained their samples from for the study, but it > wasn't from any " reputable " company! In our combined labs, we have > duplicated the tests that you (Maurice) have expressed and have yet to find > equal results ... our thin layer chromatography as well as spec results give > a clean bill of health for USA obtained GSE products. This is information > obtained first hand ... and I'll accept that any day over a test performed > using unknown resources! > > However, since I have trusted your authority in the past, I want you to know > that I just purchased 100 pounds of grapefruit, Maurice ... thinking you > were serious ... I'm expecting you to come spit your fair share of seeds to > throw into the blender ) You free this Saturday? > > Tamara ) > > > > Message: 22 > Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:11:06 +0800 > > Subject: Re: GSE & Making your own > > Identification of benzethonium chloride in commercial grapefruit seed > extracts. > Aspects of the antimicrobial efficacy of grapefruit seed extract and its > relation to preservative substances contained. > > Hi, > > I don't usually enter into discussions of GSE because I'm sick of them (LOL) > but > have to say that Citricidal have been using organic grapefruit for a long > time > now! > > I have creams and lotions that are 9 months old now and preserved with only > GSE > and ROE. They have been lab tested by my local lab and are as good and clean > as > the day they were made. > > Nerys > www.neryspurchon.com > > > > > > Post message: Cosmeticinfo > Subscribe: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo > Unsubscribe: Cosmeticinfo-unsubscribe > List owner: Cosmeticinfo-owner > URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 Hi Not to be off topic but what is a PhD in conventional medicine? Are you a M.D.? There are PhDs in Biochemistry, Microbiology, etc., but the proper terminology for conventional medicine is M.D. or Medical Doctor, not PhD. Just an aside, but I'm trying to make sure that we have the correct terminology. Marcia in both Psychology and Biochemistry and PhD's in both conventional and naturopathic medicine ... not that " degrees " matter, as I have always found " practical " knowledge to outweigh classroom knowledge ten-fold! I asked a question and Maurice had hear about when a study states " independent lab tests show .... " ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 I have a great recipe for grapefruit frappe I could post...at least your grapefruits will not go to waste! Hello all, I'm sorry that this is deteriorating into sarcasm and a slanging match. I've seen this happening before when a discussion of GSE was introduced. I really feel that there is nothing to be served by continuing the debate as neither side can really prove their point to the satisfaction of the other. Nerys www.neryspurchon.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 No problem, I'd be happy to post it. 8 grapefruits peeled and membrane removed 2 Cups of Vodka 1 cup of fruit sugar 1 8 oz bottle of ginger beer Place grapefruit, vodka and fruit sugar in food processor and process until well blended. Add the vodka and ginger beer and whir a few more times. Pour mixture into an ice cream pail and freeze over night. Scoop out enough for 4 serving and process again until light and fluffy. Heap into large wine glasses. I garnish with a cherry. they are beautiful, but watch out..they do catch up with you. (no GSE is needed...they don't last long) > I have a great recipe for grapefruit frappe I could post...at least your > grapefruits will not go to waste! > > Hello all, > > I'm sorry that this is deteriorating into sarcasm and a slanging match. I've > seen this happening before when a discussion of GSE was introduced. > > I really feel that there is nothing to be served by continuing the debate as > neither side can really prove their point to the satisfaction of the other. > > Nerys > www.neryspurchon.com > > > > > Post message: Cosmeticinfo > Subscribe: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo > Unsubscribe: Cosmeticinfo-unsubscribe > List owner: Cosmeticinfo-owner > URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 > This is a > group that comes together to learn and share experience with one another > ... NOT to judge or to state that one way of performing is better than > another! And it's not a place to publish wishful thinking and unsubstantiated information as fact. > I never stated in my post that I use GSE as a preservative ... and, just for > your peace of mind, Maurice, I was not inquiring about purchasing GSE for > this purpose! I don't understand. Are you saying that you don't think GSE is an effective preservative for cosmetics? > I volunteer at a local facility that treats paraplegic > individuals. In the course of my rounds, I help to treat their bed sores > and have prepared a " self-preserved " oil formulation for this use that > contains a small amount of GSE. That's interesting. Is the " oil formulation " anhydrous? What is the GSE used for in your formulation? > I hold a masters in both Psychology and > Biochemistry and PhD's in both conventional and naturopathic medicine ... > not that " degrees " matter, as I have always found " practical " knowledge to > outweigh classroom knowledge ten-fold! I agree. The best formulators that I've ever known did not have degrees and the ultimate worst formulators had PhDs. > I asked a question and Maurice had > the choice to remain silent, but instead chose to respond in sarcasm ... What did I say that you found sarcastic? What are you referring to? Care to be specific? > I first heard about the " bunk " being spread regarding GSE years ago... By " bunk " are you referring to the papers that were published in the technical literature that showed that some samples of GSE were contaminated with synthetic preservatives? > don't know where they obtained their samples from for the study, but it > wasn't from any " reputable " company! How do you know that? Have you read the articles? > In our combined labs, we have > duplicated the tests that you (Maurice) have expressed and have yet to find > equal results ... What " tests " are you talking about? >our thin layer chromatography as well as spec results give > a clean bill of health for USA obtained GSE products. What in the world does " a clean bill of health " mean? What were you looking or check for? And what were the results? And what is the spec and the source? > This is information > obtained first hand ... and I'll accept that any day over a test performed > using unknown resources! Well, you haven't divulged your source either. You make it sound like some sort of conspiracy. Do you think the US Department of Agriculture is involved? -------------- Identification of benzethonium chloride in commercial grapefruit seed extracts. Takeoka G, Dao L, Wong RY, Lundin R, Mahoney N. J Agric Food Chem. 2001 Jul;49(7):3316-20. Western Regional Research Center, Agricultural Research Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture, 800 Buchanan Street, Albany, California 94710, USA. grt@... -------------- The Agricultural Research Service website has an " interpretive summary " of this paper: " Grapefruit seed extract is commercially available in various health food stores and via the internet. It is promoted as a powerful, effective, natural antimicrobial product capable of treating a variety of external and internal conditions such as eczema, acne, thrush, cold sores, sore throat, athlete's foot, colds, gastrointestinal infections, gastritis, gastric and duodenal ulcers, allergies, and parasitic diseases. In our search for natural antifungal agents effective against Aspergillus flavus we examined the chemical composition and activity of commercially available grapefruit seed extracts as well as extracts prepared in our laboratory by extraction of grapefruit seeds with ethanol. Confirming an earlier study by researchers in Germany we found that some commercial grapefruit seed extracts contain benzethonium chloride, a synthetic antimicrobial agent commonly used in cosmetics and only approved for topical use. at relatively high levels of 8%. It is unlikely that benzethonium chloride is formed during any extraction or processing of grapefruit seeds and pulp. " http://www.nal.usda.gov/ttic/tektran/data/000011/78/0000117803.html Sounds like they're talking about Citracidal. Have you ever seen a cream or lotion, preserved with your GSE pass a USP or CTFA Challenge Test? You would think that anyone that could produce a GSE that could pass a real challenge test would be publishing those results. Now that would be a great sales tool. Maurice -------------------------------------------------------- Maurice O. Hevey Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com ------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 > Here's something I've been considering to end the debate... > > Where do I get GSE? I'll buy some...send it out to different folks to put in a sample of their product that THE GROUP feels is non-biased....then I will take their products to a testing facility that THE GROUP feels will be non-biased. They can do a challenge test on the product with GSE used as a preservative. Then we can send the product out to some testers to use...and send that test sample back to the lab for testing and see what the results are. There is no " standardized " Grapefruit Seed Extract. I think that the vendor of the GSE should foot the bill. We're looking at $500 to $800 for a CTFA Challenge Test. If I were a vendor of GSE and I had reason to believe that my GSE was an effective preservative for personal care items, I would gladly pay for a USP or CTFA challenge test. I would wrap up the GSE marketplace in a heart beat. Maurice ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Maurice O. Hevey - Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. 2393 Blaine Avenue, Ste 204 - Orono, MN 55391 Tel: - Fax: www.ConvergentCosmetics.com maurice@... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 > I really feel that there is nothing to be served by continuing the debate as > neither side can really prove their point to the satisfaction of the other. I would love to see a cream or lotion, preserved with uncontaminated GSE, passed a CTFA challenge test. That would make many of my clients very happy. But, until that happens, I'll continue to use other preservative systems. Maurice ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Maurice O. Hevey - Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. 2393 Blaine Avenue, Ste 204 - Orono, MN 55391 Tel: - Fax: www.ConvergentCosmetics.com maurice@... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 > Actually I'm interested in this whole thread. I make > a body scrub that contains sugar and jojoba oil. I > would love to take you up on the offer, but a fellow > soaper friend and I already plan to do a similar test. > The plan is to make three of the exact same scrubs, > add GSE to one, Liquipar to the other, and leave the > last one without any preservative. We will be sending > them to the Microbiology lab at USM in 3 to 4 weeks to > have them tested for any bacterial growth. I'm > certainly no scientist and have no idea as to what the > results will turn out to be. I do, however, believe > that the Liquipar will probably beat out the other > two. Any thoughts? It appears that your body scrub is anhydrous. Anhydrous products will not grow bacteria. You didn't say which LiquaPar you are using, but it might be interesting if you made a cream or lotion with GSE, LiquaPar and nothing and sent that out for micro testing. I guessing, but I am assuming that the micro lab at USM will be doing a simple aerobic plate count. That will tell you how many microorganisms are present in your product. It will not tell you how effective the preservative is in this formula. You should send some doughnuts as ask them to do a CTFA challenge test. That would produce meaningful data. Maurice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 well i'm glad to learn of all the information concerning preservatives. i'm here to learn. it will help me to protect my customers and myself as well. i am using the germaben II in my salt and sugar scrubs, with t-50 added to my oils as well. kiwana > > Actually I'm interested in this whole thread. I make > > a body scrub that contains sugar and jojoba oil. I > > would love to take you up on the offer, but a fellow > > soaper friend and I already plan to do a similar test. > > The plan is to make three of the exact same scrubs, > > add GSE to one, Liquipar to the other, and leave the > > last one without any preservative. We will be sending > > them to the Microbiology lab at USM in 3 to 4 weeks to > > have them tested for any bacterial growth. I'm > > certainly no scientist and have no idea as to what the > > results will turn out to be. I do, however, believe > > that the Liquipar will probably beat out the other > > two. Any thoughts? > > It appears that your body scrub is anhydrous. Anhydrous products > will not grow bacteria. > > You didn't say which LiquaPar you are using, but it might be > interesting if you made a cream or lotion with GSE, LiquaPar and > nothing and sent that out for micro testing. I guessing, but I am > assuming that the micro lab at USM will be doing a simple aerobic > plate count. That will tell you how many microorganisms are present > in your product. It will not tell you how effective the preservative > is in this formula. > > You should send some doughnuts as ask them to do a CTFA challenge > test. That would produce meaningful data. > > Maurice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 are you going to be using the scrubs before sending them for testing, doing all the things that consumers do that introduce water into the mix? Otherwise you're sending what sounds like a product with no bio- available water in for testing...which is close to pointless Jules/Vancouver BC > > The plan is to make three of the exact same scrubs, > add GSE to one, Liquipar to the other, and leave the > last one without any preservative. We will be sending > them to the Microbiology lab at USM in 3 to 4 weeks to > have them tested for any bacterial growth. > I'll definitely post the results. > - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 hey maurice i have 2 sugar scrubs i am working on to be used as foot scrub. the first contains turbinado and white sugars, peppermint eo, dark chocolate fragrance oil, colloidal oatmeal, jojoba beads, olive and aloe vera oils and the germaben II. the other contains turbinado and white sugars, eucalyptus eo, lemongrass eo, ground pumice powder, jojoba beads, olive and aloe vera oils and germaben II. kiwana > > >well i'm glad to learn of all the information concerning > >preservatives. i'm here to learn. it will help me to protect my > >customers and myself as well. i am using the germaben II in my salt > >and sugar scrubs, with t-50 added to my oils as well. > > Kiwana, > > Beside sugar, what other ingredients do you have in your scrub? > > Maurice > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > Maurice O. Hevey > Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. > http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com > ------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2003 Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 also would you mind explaining the main differences between these. TIA! kiwana > Germaben II is not effective in all-oil formulations. You should be using > Phenonip, LiquiPar, or Uniphen. > > Merin > http://www.goodcleansoap.com > Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live > as one wishes to live. -- Wilde > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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