Re: Do people accuse you of not wanting to solve your problems?

[Guest guest]

You are absolutely not alone. Generally speaking, people aren't very

good at empathizing with or understanding the perspectives of other

people. This inability is probably the single greatest source of

suffering in the entire world.

I'm not saying that people are bad or wrong for being stuck inside of

their own limited experiences. We are all that way. All that we

have access to is what we see and feel and experience, not what

others see and feel and experience. Unfortunately, that's just the

way things are, we have to accept it.

The biggest problem probably comes from family members--parents,

wife, husband, sibling, ie those close to you. They are often more

willing to tell you what they think about your problems, even though

what they think (ie " Get over it! Stop being so negative and ruining

things for everyone else! " ) may not be very helpful to the

situation.

My best advice would be to just put aside what other people tell you

unless you find it helpful. If you don't find it helpful, just put

it aside. Lay it down in the corner somewhere and move on to

something more useful.

As for the guilt, look it's a simple fact that if any other person

were in your shoes right now, with your brain, your mind, your

history, and so on, they would think and feel exactly what you think

and feel. They would do exactly what you do, the same mistakes, the

same achievements, and so on. So when you feel guilty for being who

you are, or for having the problems that you have, or for having the

history that you have, remember that that guilt is just a reaction of

your mind. A predictable mental quirk, nothing more. It doesn't

mean anything.

The same goes for when you feel pride in who you are. Put that down

too, it's just a mental quirk. It doesn't mean anything.

You are no better or worse than anyone else. Same for me. Same for

everyone. We are not special. No one is special. We are all just

people walking around on a planet for awhile, searching for the

things that are minds tell us will be best for us.

>

> I have run into this a lot. When I let me true feelings be known

> people tell me stop being so negative, that I act like I want to

keep

> having problems and I just want to dwell on them. How on earth could

> someone with so much pain want to stay that way? It's natural to

want

> to stop the pain and unnatural to want to keep it. Isn't it?

>

> yeah well anyway I just seem to have run into these types of people

> everywhere. it may seem like I dont want to solve my problems or

that

> I dont try the things people tell me (and they get fed up as if I

> don't appreciate their help) but I definitely don't mean it! I can

> admit, that I may build a comfort zone amidst my problems but it's

> natural so that I can get up the next day and feel like conquering

my

> problems. I guess.

>

> Does anyone else run into this? I Just started reading the Happiness

> Trap, and got up to the point where it talks about how we are made

to

> believe that we are supposed to be able to control our thoughts with

> ease when it's hard to and that we actually start to feel guilt when

> we don't.

>

> Well.. I think we can change some of our thoughts but perhaps not

all

> of them, especially when consumed with pain, and amidst " negative "

> situations or stimuli which are considered " negative " .

>

> Anyway I would just like to know if I am not alone in these

> experiences because it sometimes makes me feel hopeless, because

> people can be so intolerant of me, and just leave me alone like

that,

> with misunderstandings.

>

> sorry I'm very tired I haven't been sleeping well at all (for the

past

> 4 years!).

>

> kind regards

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > I have run into this a lot. When I let me true feelings be known

> > people tell me stop being so negative, that I act like I want to

> keep

> > having problems and I just want to dwell on them. How on earth

could

> > someone with so much pain want to stay that way? It's natural to

> want

> > to stop the pain and unnatural to want to keep it. Isn't it?

> >

> > yeah well anyway I just seem to have run into these types of

people

> > everywhere. it may seem like I dont want to solve my problems or

> that

> > I dont try the things people tell me (and they get fed up as if I

> > don't appreciate their help) but I definitely don't mean it! I can

> > admit, that I may build a comfort zone amidst my problems but it's

> > natural so that I can get up the next day and feel like

conquering

> my

> > problems. I guess.

> >

> > Does anyone else run into this? I Just started reading the

Happiness

> > Trap, and got up to the point where it talks about how we are

made

> to

> > believe that we are supposed to be able to control our thoughts

with

> > ease when it's hard to and that we actually start to feel guilt

when

> > we don't.

> >

> > Well.. I think we can change some of our thoughts but perhaps not

> all

> > of them, especially when consumed with pain, and amidst " negative "

> > situations or stimuli which are considered " negative " .

> >

> > Anyway I would just like to know if I am not alone in these

> > experiences because it sometimes makes me feel hopeless, because

> > people can be so intolerant of me, and just leave me alone like

> that,

> > with misunderstandings.

> >

> > sorry I'm very tired I haven't been sleeping well at all (for the

> past

> > 4 years!).

> >

> > kind regards

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

<<<This seems like a very cynical or pessimistic view to me, . At

least that's how it comes across but maybe it's not meant that way.

Of course, no one knows what it is like to be inside my head but I do

appreciate my family for trying to know and caring when I don't feel

happy. You do have access to how people feel if you ask them and

listen to them.>>>

Fair enough. I probably shouldn't be painting in such broad

strokes ;-)

What I am trying to say is that it's often hard for people to

understand things that they've never experienced. Now, that doesn't

mean that they don't care. But if they've never struggled with the

problem themselves, or with a similar problem, they aren't likely to

have the tools available to really make the situation better. They

can't give comfort, but that's about it.

I was watching an MTV special on panic disorder. All of the family

members and friends of the affected individuals were concerned. They

cared. But the things that they said and the ways that tried

to 'help' didn't show a real appreciation for what was going

on. " Really, you've gotta get yourself together, you can't keep up

like this " " You really need to get over this, there's nothing to be

afraid of! " Those family members who had less patient personality

types would get irritated and frustrated. They would suggest that

the affected individual is " contributing " to the problem. That

magnified things by a thousand, because it reinforced the guilt

associated with the condition.

Can you really fault a non-panicking person for that sort of thing?

They don't know any better. They've never experienced chronic

anxiety, so they aren't going to be able to effectively relate, or to

give worthwhile advice. That's just the reality, it doesn't mean

that they are bad people.

I'm not saying that you should ignore your family. Far from it. I'm

saying that you need to recognize that people are people, ultimately

they can only work from within their bases of experience, and so what

they offer in the form of help isn't always going to be helpful.

Often, it's not helpful.

When it's not helpful, just gently put it down. There's no need to

struggle or wrestle with another person's mind: you have your own

mind to deal with, and that's more than enough.

Fortunately, family members that have been around a problem over time

tend to become much more empathetic and able to understand as they

learn more. But when something first comes up, it can be really

hard. That's just how it goes.

Recognizing that is good because it prompts us to make an effort to

understand and be patient with people that are in situations that

we've never been in, and also because it prompts us to be patient

with people who have never been in our situations and who don't

understand us.

<<<I agree that families can be difficult sometimes because they feel

impotent and sometimes desperate andoften the are just too close.

That's why getting utside help can be so helpful. When I was

desperately depressed my husband did care but the problem was he

sometimes got depressed as he didn't know what he could do to help

me. Sometimes tht made me feel really guilty. That was why therapy

helped. I could express my despair without upsetting the therapist.

Well, anyway he must have been trained enugh t hide it if he was

upset. I knew he cared though and saw me as an individual.>>>

Yes, this is exactly what I'm saying. He's trained. And if he's a

good therapist, then he's worked with his own issues, and so he can

help you work through yours.

People that have never really had a cause to work through their own

issues (yet) are not going to be able to be as helpful. In our

relationships with loved ones who are coming from that kind of

limited perspective, we just need to remember to be patient with them

and not get too wrapped up in their limited understanding of the

problem.

<<<That seems a bit nihilistic doesn't it?>>>

Why is it nihilistic? I don't believe people " make " themselves into

who they are. Some people would disagree with me on that. Fine ;-)

<<<My family and how they feel and think are special to me.

Relationships are special. Can you value your family and when they

feel proud of an achievement tell them it's nothing special, anyone

would have done that if they'd had your mind etc..>>>

Sure you can value your family's achievements and still recognize

that they don't deserve ultimate credit for them. What does one

thing have to do with the other?

Now, if your son wins the spelling bee, you wouldn't go and say " you

only won that prize because you have a good memory, which is not

something you can claim credit for. " Why would you do that? There's

no need to get philosophical in everyday life.

We can celebrate achievements. That's fine. I'm just saying hold

them lightly. The good/bad praise/blame dichotomy is a dangerous

pill. Because if you deserve credit for your talents and your

strengths and your achievements, don't you also deserve blame for

your faults and your weaknesses and your failures? The mind is much

more willing to dish out blame than praise, so for me, I try to let

go of them both and just live.

<<<You seem to be devaluing human relationships which are based on

sharing emotions and taking them seriously.>>>

I disagree. I don't have to see someone as a 'self-made self' in

order to have a relationship with them. They can be products of

their genes, environment, circumstances, histories, personality

types, experiences, and so on and still be my friend. Right?

When you see yourself as a part of nature, subject to laws of nature,

things become much lighter. You don't take yourself as seriously.

And that's good! When you stop taking yourself so seriously, or

other people so seriously, you don't get caught up in things as

much. Life becomes more flexible. Petty conflicts become water off

a ducks back. At least that's my experience.

Best wishes,

--

>

> My family and how they feel and think are special to me.

> Relationships are special. Can you value your family and when they

> feel proud of an achievement tell them it's nothing special, anyone

> would have done that if they'd had your mind etc..

>

> You seem to be devaluing human relationships which are based on

> sharing emotions and taking them seriously.

>

> Maybe some people are more empathic han those you have encountered

> but then if you cannot see the special individual differences

people

> have it's hard to relate to them and make them feel special.

>

> Am I misunderstnding what you are saying?

> > >

> > > I have run into this a lot. When I let me true feelings be known

> > > people tell me stop being so negative, that I act like I want

to

> > keep

> > > having problems and I just want to dwell on them. How on earth

> could

> > > someone with so much pain want to stay that way? It's natural

to

> > want

> > > to stop the pain and unnatural to want to keep it. Isn't it?

> > >

> > > yeah well anyway I just seem to have run into these types of

> people

> > > everywhere. it may seem like I dont want to solve my problems

or

> > that

> > > I dont try the things people tell me (and they get fed up as if

I

> > > don't appreciate their help) but I definitely don't mean it! I

can

> > > admit, that I may build a comfort zone amidst my problems but

it's

> > > natural so that I can get up the next day and feel like

> conquering

> > my

> > > problems. I guess.

> > >

> > > Does anyone else run into this? I Just started reading the

> Happiness

> > > Trap, and got up to the point where it talks about how we are

> made

> > to

> > > believe that we are supposed to be able to control our thoughts

> with

> > > ease when it's hard to and that we actually start to feel guilt

> when

> > > we don't.

> > >

> > > Well.. I think we can change some of our thoughts but perhaps

not

> > all

> > > of them, especially when consumed with pain, and

amidst " negative "

> > > situations or stimuli which are considered " negative " .

> > >

> > > Anyway I would just like to know if I am not alone in these

> > > experiences because it sometimes makes me feel hopeless, because

> > > people can be so intolerant of me, and just leave me alone like

> > that,

> > > with misunderstandings.

> > >

> > > sorry I'm very tired I haven't been sleeping well at all (for

the

> > past

> > > 4 years!).

> > >

> > > kind regards

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> > > >

> > > > I have run into this a lot. When I let me true feelings be

known

> > > > people tell me stop being so negative, that I act like I want

> to

> > > keep

> > > > having problems and I just want to dwell on them. How on

earth

> > could

> > > > someone with so much pain want to stay that way? It's natural

> to

> > > want

> > > > to stop the pain and unnatural to want to keep it. Isn't it?

> > > >

> > > > yeah well anyway I just seem to have run into these types of

> > people

> > > > everywhere. it may seem like I dont want to solve my problems

> or

> > > that

> > > > I dont try the things people tell me (and they get fed up as

if

> I

> > > > don't appreciate their help) but I definitely don't mean it!

I

> can

> > > > admit, that I may build a comfort zone amidst my problems but

> it's

> > > > natural so that I can get up the next day and feel like

> > conquering

> > > my

> > > > problems. I guess.

> > > >

> > > > Does anyone else run into this? I Just started reading the

> > Happiness

> > > > Trap, and got up to the point where it talks about how we are

> > made

> > > to

> > > > believe that we are supposed to be able to control our

thoughts

> > with

> > > > ease when it's hard to and that we actually start to feel

guilt

> > when

> > > > we don't.

> > > >

> > > > Well.. I think we can change some of our thoughts but perhaps

> not

> > > all

> > > > of them, especially when consumed with pain, and

> amidst " negative "

> > > > situations or stimuli which are considered " negative " .

> > > >

> > > > Anyway I would just like to know if I am not alone in these

> > > > experiences because it sometimes makes me feel hopeless,

because

> > > > people can be so intolerant of me, and just leave me alone

like

> > > that,

> > > > with misunderstandings.

> > > >

> > > > sorry I'm very tired I haven't been sleeping well at all (for

> the

> > > past

> > > > 4 years!).

> > > >

> > > > kind regards

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Louise,

I read my original post over again and it did come across as a bit

pessimistic. So let me clarify.

I absolutely agree that we can empathize and connect with the

perspectives of other people, whether directly or by analogy, and I

agree that our ability to do that is the basis for relationships.

Like you, I greatly value relationships.

My point is more of a qualification to all of that. Some people are

not going to be able to connect and empathize as well in the context

of some problem or topic because they don't have the necessary

experience base to draw from. They aren't going to 'get' something

that you or I may 'get.'

That process can be very frustrating. It becomes even more

frustrating when they offer 'help' or 'commentary' that just makes

the problem worse.

When I try to explain some element of my understanding of the world

to someone else, they often don't get it. They don't see what I

see. What makes so much sense to me doesn't make sense to them.

My natural reaction is to get frustrated. I measure the quality and

the legitimacy of my own realizations based on how they are received

by the minds of other people. I can't accept that they " just don't

get it " and move on. It becomes a reflection on me, a reflection on

the worth of my viewpoint.

Not a good approach. What we need to do is measure our views and our

beliefs and our pieces of wisdom based on our own experiences, on

what genuinely rings true to us, not based on how some other person's

mind reacts to it.

I was having a discussion the other day with a friend over

whether " positive affirmations " are a good way to deal with anxiety

and depression. I was trying to explain ACT concepts to the friend.

It was going nowhere--the person hadn't had much experience with

anxiety or depression and was essentially babbling what he had read

from some yahoo article.

I was holding on to the discussion--I couldn't let it go--because for

me it was about whether ACT concepts work. But I've already found

the answer to that question, I already know that ACT concepts work,

why do I have to worry about the fact that someone else doesn't

realize it? That's their problem, not mine. And of course they

don't realize it--they don't have experience, they've never

experienced chronic anxiety from the inside. It's not a fault on

them, it's understandable. There are a whole bunch of things that I

naively think I understand that I probably don't.

So when a family member or some other person just doesn't get it, or

when they stay stupid things like " you bring this on yourself " ,

or " it's simple, just stop thinking those thoughts! " , or, for the

anorexic, " just eat the food, you're not fat! " , we need to be careful

not to interpret their view as a statement about us or about our

progress. If someone doesn't understand something, that's fine, we

shouldn't expect people to understand things that are foreign to

their experience base. It doesn't have to be a reflection on

anything, nor does it have to be a problem, provided that we don't go

that person for help.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have run into this a lot. When I let me true feelings be

> known

> > > > > people tell me stop being so negative, that I act like I

want

> > to

> > > > keep

> > > > > having problems and I just want to dwell on them. How on

> earth

> > > could

> > > > > someone with so much pain want to stay that way? It's

natural

> > to

> > > > want

> > > > > to stop the pain and unnatural to want to keep it. Isn't

it?

> > > > >

> > > > > yeah well anyway I just seem to have run into these types

of

> > > people

> > > > > everywhere. it may seem like I dont want to solve my

problems

> > or

> > > > that

> > > > > I dont try the things people tell me (and they get fed up

as

> if

> > I

> > > > > don't appreciate their help) but I definitely don't mean

it!

> I

> > can

> > > > > admit, that I may build a comfort zone amidst my problems

but

> > it's

> > > > > natural so that I can get up the next day and feel like

> > > conquering

> > > > my

> > > > > problems. I guess.

> > > > >

> > > > > Does anyone else run into this? I Just started reading the

> > > Happiness

> > > > > Trap, and got up to the point where it talks about how we

are

> > > made

> > > > to

> > > > > believe that we are supposed to be able to control our

> thoughts

> > > with

> > > > > ease when it's hard to and that we actually start to feel

> guilt

> > > when

> > > > > we don't.

> > > > >

> > > > > Well.. I think we can change some of our thoughts but

perhaps

> > not

> > > > all

> > > > > of them, especially when consumed with pain, and

> > amidst " negative "

> > > > > situations or stimuli which are considered " negative " .

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyway I would just like to know if I am not alone in these

> > > > > experiences because it sometimes makes me feel hopeless,

> because

> > > > > people can be so intolerant of me, and just leave me alone

> like

> > > > that,

> > > > > with misunderstandings.

> > > > >

> > > > > sorry I'm very tired I haven't been sleeping well at all

(for

> > the

> > > > past

> > > > > 4 years!).

> > > > >

> > > > > kind regards

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

well it's just when people believe in the law of attraction is everything.....

> > > >

> > > > I have run into this a lot. When I let me true feelings be

known

> > > > people tell me stop being so negative, that I act like I want

> to

> > > keep

> > > > having problems and I just want to dwell on them. How on

earth

> > could

> > > > someone with so much pain want to stay that way? It's natural

> to

> > > want

> > > > to stop the pain and unnatural to want to keep it. Isn't it?

> > > >

> > > > yeah well anyway I just seem to have run into these types of

> > people

> > > > everywhere. it may seem like I dont want to solve my problems

> or

> > > that

> > > > I dont try the things people tell me (and they get fed up as

if

> I

> > > > don't appreciate their help) but I definitely don't mean it!

I

> can

> > > > admit, that I may build a comfort zone amidst my problems but

> it's

> > > > natural so that I can get up the next day and feel like

> > conquering

> > > my

> > > > problems. I guess.

> > > >

> > > > Does anyone else run into this? I Just started reading the

> > Happiness

> > > > Trap, and got up to the point where it talks about how we are

> > made

> > > to

> > > > believe that we are supposed to be able to control our

thoughts

> > with

> > > > ease when it's hard to and that we actually start to feel

guilt

> > when

> > > > we don't.

> > > >

> > > > Well.. I think we can change some of our thoughts but perhaps

> not

> > > all

> > > > of them, especially when consumed with pain, and

> amidst " negative "

> > > > situations or stimuli which are considered " negative " .

> > > >

> > > > Anyway I would just like to know if I am not alone in these

> > > > experiences because it sometimes makes me feel hopeless,

because

> > > > people can be so intolerant of me, and just leave me alone

like

> > > that,

> > > > with misunderstandings.

> > > >

> > > > sorry I'm very tired I haven't been sleeping well at all (for

> the

> > > past

> > > > 4 years!).

> > > >

> > > > kind regards

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have run into this a lot. When I let me true feelings

be

> > known

> > > > > > people tell me stop being so negative, that I act like I

> want

> > > to

> > > > > keep

> > > > > > having problems and I just want to dwell on them. How on

> > earth

> > > > could

> > > > > > someone with so much pain want to stay that way? It's

> natural

> > > to

> > > > > want

> > > > > > to stop the pain and unnatural to want to keep it. Isn't

> it?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > yeah well anyway I just seem to have run into these types

> of

> > > > people

> > > > > > everywhere. it may seem like I dont want to solve my

> problems

> > > or

> > > > > that

> > > > > > I dont try the things people tell me (and they get fed up

> as

> > if

> > > I

> > > > > > don't appreciate their help) but I definitely don't mean

> it!

> > I

> > > can

> > > > > > admit, that I may build a comfort zone amidst my problems

> but

> > > it's

> > > > > > natural so that I can get up the next day and feel like

> > > > conquering

> > > > > my

> > > > > > problems. I guess.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Does anyone else run into this? I Just started reading

the

> > > > Happiness

> > > > > > Trap, and got up to the point where it talks about how we

> are

> > > > made

> > > > > to

> > > > > > believe that we are supposed to be able to control our

> > thoughts

> > > > with

> > > > > > ease when it's hard to and that we actually start to feel

> > guilt

> > > > when

> > > > > > we don't.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Well.. I think we can change some of our thoughts but

> perhaps

> > > not

> > > > > all

> > > > > > of them, especially when consumed with pain, and

> > > amidst " negative "

> > > > > > situations or stimuli which are considered " negative " .

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anyway I would just like to know if I am not alone in

these

> > > > > > experiences because it sometimes makes me feel hopeless,

> > because

> > > > > > people can be so intolerant of me, and just leave me

alone

> > like

> > > > > that,

> > > > > > with misunderstandings.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > sorry I'm very tired I haven't been sleeping well at all

> (for

> > > the

> > > > > past

> > > > > > 4 years!).

> > > > > >

> > > > > > kind regards

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

>

> well it's just when people believe in the law of attraction is

> everything.....

Not sure I follow, .

Louise

[Guest guest]

> >

> > well it's just when people believe in the law of attraction is

> > everything.....

>

> Not sure I follow, .

>

> Louise

>

well I just had a friend who I stopped talking to because we would

always argue. He really believed in the law of attraction, to the

point where it seemed like he believes that EVERYTHING that happens

to each of us is our own fault. Because we either allowed it, or it

was our focus. He would also act like I should have known better, etc.

as if I supposedly created everything that happened to me " on purpose " .

Maybe I just misunderstood him, but I feel that this is the way he

thinks. I also think a lot of people think this way, and it makes me

feel bad. Why would I want to create this? I certainly don't enjoy it.

Perhaps he thinks that because he's tried to help me before and since

(for my own reasons) haven't been able to help myself in the ways he

suggested, that I just want to stay this way. But this is untrue.

please forgive me if I seem unclear. My head is not too clear.