Re: Struggling with myself...

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn,

You can “create” an infinite number of selves –

the confident self, the insecure self, the child self, the angry self, the calm

self, the professional self, the healthy self, the sick self etc. But all of

these are “products” of the thinking self (more commonly known as “the

mind”) - by which I mean that they are all collections of thoughts,

memories, ideas, judgments, facts, beliefs and opinions about who you are.

The observing self is that aspect of you that notices everything

else. The observing self notices all those other “selves”, notices

all your thoughts and feelings, notices your breath, notices everything you can

see, hear, taste and small, and notices what you’re noticing. It is

not really a “self” at all. In my opinion, the best term for it is “pure

awareness” – because that’s all it is – just awareness.

It is the aspect of you that is aware of everything else. The observing self

notices your breath, and notices the mind chatter in the background – and

notices you noticing all that – and notices you thinking about that

noticing – and notices you struggling with the concept. Whatever is

happening in this moment, the observing self is that aspect of you that is

aware of it.

So can you notice yourself struggling with this concept? ......

Who is noticing?

Can you notice your confusion or frustration? ......... Who is

noticing?

Can you notice your thinking self going nuts trying to figure it

out? ............... Who is noticing?

Cheers, Russ

Russ

PO Box 5079

Alphington, Vic 3058

www.thehappinesstrap.com

www.actmindfully.com.au

From: ACT_for_the_Public

[mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of dawnaberu

Sent: Tuesday, 27 January 2009 1:39 AM

To: ACT_for_the_Public

Subject: Struggling with myself...

Hi everyone,

has anybody else found it difficult to prove to themselves the

seperation of the observing self and the thinking self?

I am reading " the happiness trap " page 82. Russ asks me to notice the

distinction between my thinking self chattering in the background and

my observing self watching my breaths.

Does this mean there are 3 selves, with one watching the other 2?

To be honest I am struggling with identifying another self. When i

realize I have been hooked by a thought I observe the memory of the

thought not two processes running side by side.

Has anyone dealt with this and proven to themselves another self?

Thanks,

Dawn.

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn:I can certainly relate to this. I have a very difficult time not running the thinking when trying to just observe. I immediately begin to judge what's going on. The simple observation has not happened for me.The thinking self is always in the foreground for me.BruceHi everyone,has anybody else found it difficult to prove to themselves the seperation of the observing self and the thinking self?I am reading "the happiness trap"page 82. Russ asks me to notice the distinction between my thinking self chattering in the background and my observing self watching my breaths.Does this mean there are 3 selves, with one watching the other 2?To be honest I am struggling with identifying another self. When i realize I have been hooked by a thought I observe the memory of the thought not two processes running side by side.Has anyone dealt with this and proven to themselves another self?Thanks,Dawn.

[Guest guest]

Hi Russ,

Thanks for this, it really helped clarify things.

Dawn.

>

> Hi Dawn,

>

>

>

> You can " create " an infinite number of selves - the confident self,

the

> insecure self, the child self, the angry self, the calm self, the

> professional self, the healthy self, the sick self etc. But all of

these are

> " products " of the thinking self (more commonly known as " the

mind " ) - by

> which I mean that they are all collections of thoughts, memories,

ideas,

> judgments, facts, beliefs and opinions about who you are.

>

> The observing self is that aspect of you that notices everything

else. The

> observing self notices all those other " selves " , notices all your

thoughts

> and feelings, notices your breath, notices everything you can see,

hear,

> taste and small, and notices what you're noticing. It is not

really a

> " self " at all. In my opinion, the best term for it is " pure

awareness " -

> because that's all it is - just awareness. It is the aspect of you

that is

> aware of everything else. The observing self notices your breath,

and

> notices the mind chatter in the background - and notices you

noticing all

> that - and notices you thinking about that noticing - and notices

you

> struggling with the concept. Whatever is happening in this moment,

the

> observing self is that aspect of you that is aware of it.

>

>

>

> So can you notice yourself struggling with this concept? ......

Who is

> noticing?

>

> Can you notice your confusion or frustration? ......... Who is

noticing?

>

> Can you notice your thinking self going nuts trying to figure it

out?

> ............... Who is noticing?

>

>

>

> Cheers, Russ

>

>

>

> Russ

>

> PO Box 5079

>

> Alphington, Vic 3058

>

>

>

> www.thehappinesstrap.com

>

> www.actmindfully.com.au

>

>

>

> From: ACT_for_the_Public

> [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of dawnaberu

> Sent: Tuesday, 27 January 2009 1:39 AM

> To: ACT_for_the_Public

> Subject: Struggling with myself...

>

>

>

> Hi everyone,

> has anybody else found it difficult to prove to themselves the

> seperation of the observing self and the thinking self?

>

> I am reading " the happiness trap " page 82. Russ asks me to notice

the

> distinction between my thinking self chattering in the background

and

> my observing self watching my breaths.

>

> Does this mean there are 3 selves, with one watching the other 2?

>

> To be honest I am struggling with identifying another self. When i

> realize I have been hooked by a thought I observe the memory of the

> thought not two processes running side by side.

>

> Has anyone dealt with this and proven to themselves another self?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Dawn.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Bruce,

Just notice the thinking, notice the judging; don’t try to

stop it – simply notice it. Doesn’t matter if the thinking self is

foreground or background, inside out or upside down – just notice where

it is and what it is doing – notice the words and pictures it is throwing

up – notice the judgments and the confusion or frustration or the thoughts

about not getting it . This part of you that notices all those thoughts, feelings

and judgments is the observing self.

Cheers, Russ

Russ

PO Box 5079

Alphington, Vic 3058

www.thehappinesstrap.com

www.actmindfully.com.au

From: ACT_for_the_Public

[mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of Bruce Carlson

Sent: Tuesday, 27 January 2009 12:17 PM

To: ACT_for_the_Public

Subject: Re: Struggling with myself...

Hi Dawn:

I can certainly relate to this. I have a very difficult time

not running the thinking when trying to just observe. I immediately begin to

judge what's going on. The simple observation has not happened for me.

The thinking self is always in the foreground for me.

Bruce

Hi everyone,

has anybody else found it difficult to prove to themselves the

seperation of the observing self and the thinking self?

I am reading " the happiness trap " page 82. Russ asks me to notice the

distinction between my thinking self chattering in the background and

my observing self watching my breaths.

Does this mean there are 3 selves, with one watching the other 2?

To be honest I am struggling with identifying another self. When i

realize I have been hooked by a thought I observe the memory of the

thought not two processes running side by side.

Has anyone dealt with this and proven to themselves another self?

Thanks,

Dawn.

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

When I felt that I understood this concept it was a real eye opener

and life changing moment. I think it was a big step along the way to

realising that I am not my thoughts, nor do my thoughts rule my life.

The way it was explained to me is that if you consider the sky and the

land, then they are always there and nothing changes that much. It was

explained to me that it's as if the observing self is the sky, and the

way things really are is the land. The sky never really changes, it's

just air. The land changes gradually over time, and sometimes in

massive bursts like a fire, or a flood, or something equally positive.

If there were no clouds then the sky would always see things just the

way they are. However, in between the sky and teh earth are the clouds

which sometimes stop the sky from being able to see the land clearly.

The clouds are your thoughts.

I found that metaphor useful. If you keep it in mind you tend to

realise that you aren't trying to peer through the clouds constantly,

you are more waiting for them to pass. Sometimes the sky is clear,

sometimes it's overcast and you have to wait to see things as they

really are. However you can keep in your mind the knowledge that the

clouds will eventually go away.

As I progressed I started to be able to realise which were helpful

thoughts and which were not. I guess to continue the metaphor

sometimes having clouds is nice for rain when it's necessary and so

on. I think as most people probably come to ACT in a time of need just

learning to devalue thoughts is a great first step

I hope this helps you understand things better. As I said this

metaphor really opened my eyes and helped me understand the book and

the process along the way.

[Guest guest]

Hi Ozzy,

this is very helpful too,

so I am the sky (my awareness) watching reality without the story?

Until the clouds drift across?

Brilliant,

Thanks,

Dawn

>

> Hi there,

>

> When I felt that I understood this concept it was a real eye opener

> and life changing moment. I think it was a big step along the way to

> realising that I am not my thoughts, nor do my thoughts rule my

life.

>

> The way it was explained to me is that if you consider the sky and

the

> land, then they are always there and nothing changes that much. It

was

> explained to me that it's as if the observing self is the sky, and

the

> way things really are is the land. The sky never really changes,

it's

> just air. The land changes gradually over time, and sometimes in

> massive bursts like a fire, or a flood, or something equally

positive.

> If there were no clouds then the sky would always see things just

the

> way they are. However, in between the sky and teh earth are the

clouds

> which sometimes stop the sky from being able to see the land

clearly.

> The clouds are your thoughts.

>

> I found that metaphor useful. If you keep it in mind you tend to

> realise that you aren't trying to peer through the clouds

constantly,

> you are more waiting for them to pass. Sometimes the sky is clear,

> sometimes it's overcast and you have to wait to see things as they

> really are. However you can keep in your mind the knowledge that the

> clouds will eventually go away.

>

> As I progressed I started to be able to realise which were helpful

> thoughts and which were not. I guess to continue the metaphor

> sometimes having clouds is nice for rain when it's necessary and so

> on. I think as most people probably come to ACT in a time of need

just

> learning to devalue thoughts is a great first step

>

> I hope this helps you understand things better. As I said this

> metaphor really opened my eyes and helped me understand the book and

> the process along the way.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Russ:Thanks for the response. I really appreciate it. I'm having a hard time but feel like I'm getting better.I just listened to your "Mindfulness of Emotion" mp3 and usually read of bit of "The Happiness Trap" in the evening. My biggest issue is a bit lump in the stomach that's with me all day. The mp3 really is appropriate to that. I just hope I'm not trying to hard somehow.Thank you for being on this list and answering questions. I appreciate it.Regards,BruceHi Bruce, Just notice the thinking, notice the judging; don’t try to stop it – simply notice it. Doesn’t matter if the thinking self is foreground or background, inside out or upside down – just notice where it is and what it is doing – notice the words and pictures it is throwing up – notice the judgments and the confusion or frustration or the thoughts about not getting it . This part of you that notices all those thoughts, feelings and judgments is the observing self. Cheers, Russ Russ PO Box 5079Alphington, Vic 3058 www.thehappinesstrap.comwww.actmindfully.com.au From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of Bruce CarlsonSent: Tuesday, 27 January 2009 12:17 PMTo: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Re: Struggling with myself... Hi Dawn: I can certainly relate to this. I have a very difficult time not running the thinking when trying to just observe. I immediately begin to judge what's going on. The simple observation has not happened for me. The thinking self is always in the foreground for me. Bruce Hi everyone,has anybody else found it difficult to prove to themselves the seperation of the observing self and the thinking self?I am reading "the happiness trap"page 82. Russ asks me to notice the distinction between my thinking self chattering in the background and my observing self watching my breaths.Does this mean there are 3 selves, with one watching the other 2?To be honest I am struggling with identifying another self. When i realize I have been hooked by a thought I observe the memory of the thought not two processes running side by side.Has anyone dealt with this and proven to themselves another self?Thanks,Dawn. 

[Guest guest]

I can attest to the fact that it is possible to try too hard to integrate ACT into my life, perhaps unless it comes to moving ahead with hands and feet towards a valued life. I practiced brute force mindfulness for a few months until it dawned on me, with the help of an excellent ACT therapist, that I was trying too hard. I have a professional background in corporate trouble-shooting/problem solving. The harder I thought about the owrk the more successful I was. The problem is applying this very powerful skill to internal issues. It backfired on me. Expansion/acceptance is especially very difficult territory for us world-class thinkers.

Hang in there,

Bill

To: ACT_for_the_Public From: onebnz@...Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:37:18 -0800Subject: Re: Struggling with myself...

Hi Russ:

Thanks for the response. I really appreciate it. I'm having a hard time but feel like I'm getting better.

I just listened to your "Mindfulness of Emotion" mp3 and usually read of bit of "The Happiness Trap" in the evening. My biggest issue is a bit lump in the stomach that's with me all day. The mp3 really is appropriate to that. I just hope I'm not trying to hard somehow.

Thank you for being on this list and answering questions. I appreciate it.

Regards,

Bruce

Hi Bruce,

Just notice the thinking, notice the judging; don’t try to stop it – simply notice it. Doesn’t matter if the thinking self is foreground or background, inside out or upside down – just notice where it is and what it is doing – notice the words and pictures it is throwing up – notice the judgments and the confusion or frustration or the thoughts about not getting it . This part of you that notices all those thoughts, feelings and judgments is the observing self.

Cheers, Russ

Russ

PO Box 5079

Alphington, Vic 3058

www.thehappinesstrap.com

www.actmindfully.com.au

From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of Bruce CarlsonSent: Tuesday, 27 January 2009 12:17 PMTo: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Re: Struggling with myself...

Hi Dawn:

I can certainly relate to this. I have a very difficult time not running the thinking when trying to just observe. I immediately begin to judge what's going on. The simple observation has not happened for me.

The thinking self is always in the foreground for me.

Bruce

Hi everyone,has anybody else found it difficult to prove to themselves the seperation of the observing self and the thinking self?I am reading "the happiness trap"page 82. Russ asks me to notice the distinction between my thinking self chattering in the background and my observing self watching my breaths.Does this mean there are 3 selves, with one watching the other 2?To be honest I am struggling with identifying another self. When i realize I have been hooked by a thought I observe the memory of the thought not two processes running side by side.Has anyone dealt with this and proven to themselves another self?Thanks,Dawn.

[Guest guest]

Russ, I would be most greatful if you could explain something to me

that you wrote in The Happiness Trap.

At some point you say that the observing self simply observes

everything with curiosity and interest (or words to that effect). But

isn't curiosity/interest a thought process mixed with emotion? If the

observing self is simply observing, where does the interest part come

in? Wouldnt that be a product of the thinking self?

I also understand from 'Mindful way Thru Depression' that the brain

has an avoidance system and an approach system, is this somehow

connected?

Many thanks for your time, I'm not in any way criticising, I love

your book!

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi everyone,

> has anybody else found it difficult to prove to themselves the

> seperation of the observing self and the thinking self?

>

> I am reading " the happiness trap " page 82. Russ asks me to notice

the

> distinction between my thinking self chattering in the background

and

> my observing self watching my breaths.

>

> Does this mean there are 3 selves, with one watching the other 2?

>

> To be honest I am struggling with identifying another self. When i

> realize I have been hooked by a thought I observe the memory of the

> thought not two processes running side by side.

>

> Has anyone dealt with this and proven to themselves another self?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Dawn.

>