Re: M&P Ingredients List help

[Guest guest]

Tricia,

Sorbitol is derived from corn, not berries. You may be confusing sorbic

acid, which is found in very small quantities in the Mountain Ash berry.

Sorbitol is a polyhydric alcohol that can serve some of the same functions

as glycerin, propylene glycol or butylenes glycol. Sorbic acid is not

commercially derived from the Mountain Ash berry either. A further point of

clarification is that titanium dioxide is not naturally derived either. It

is synthetically manufactured and not mined as your ingredient listing would

have you believe. Soybean protein is not an official INCI name for any

ingredient. This is just another obfuscation of the truth.

As far as crediting the author I personally have no problem but you should

ask Pat McDonnell for permission since he is list owner. If you are

referencing a USA home crafter supplier they are well known on this list for

their overt lack of knowledge, mistruths, myths and lies.

Young

KY Labs

Innovators of Fine Personal Care Products

www.kylabs.com

M & P Ingredients List help

Hi

Could one of the chemist or those with more knowledge than me let me know

your comments on the following. This was posted to another group I am in

regarding M & P soap base. Now as I understand it (and I could be wrong)

sorbitol is found in berries but not extracted for this use. Also any other

comments on this ingredients listing would be appreciated. Also any

replies I get I would like permission to pass on the info (with credit to

the person who provided it goes without saying)

Many thanks

Tricia

PS I have taken the name of the company out so as not to cause an problems

hope that is ok.

This is the official ingredient list by the company in question for the M & P

base.

Coconut Oil

Palm Oil

Castor Oil

Safflower Oil

Glycerine (kosher, of vegetable origin)

Purified Water

Sodium Hydroxide (saponifying agent)

Sorbitol (from berries, moisturizer)

Sorbitan oleate (emulsifier)

Soybean protein (conditioner)

Titanium Dioxide (mineral whitener used in opaque soaps)

[Guest guest]

Many thanks for the clarification on the berries issue and for the other

information. It is only because I am a member of this group that I questioned

the ingredients listing so thanks to those who take the time to help if you had

not I would not of questioned it.

Although I am in the UK this is in reference to a US supplier. Also another

comment made about this product that perhaps yourself or someone would not mind

telling me is that this particular base (I quote) 'meets the FDA guidelines for

" soap " and therefore does not have to be labelled by FDA standards. No melt and

pour base to my knowledge, meets the FDA requirements for soap'. (un quote)

I have not giving the name of the person who said this as I thought that would

be unfair to do so I am just repeating a section that was stated on another

group. I hope this is ok and not breaking any rules. Many apologies if I am.

As I am in the UK I would not be purchasing this base I am just trying to obtain

the correct information on this product.

Pat if you read this may I have permission to pass this information on to the

group in question.

Tricia

If you are referencing a USA home crafter supplier they are well known on this

list for their overt lack of knowledge, mistruths, myths and lies.

Young

[Guest guest]

Tricia,

The USA definition of a 'soap' is that the product must be essentially the

alkaline salt of the reaction of fats and oils with an alkali. Based on the

ingredient listing that you provided this appears to be the case unless of

course there is more to the product than is listed. The other test for soap

is that there are no claims other than soap or cleansing.

The laws regarding soaps and other cleansing products are significantly

different in the EU and I am not comfortable speaking to this issue. Perhaps

Eastham, who is a member of our list residing in the UK can address

this issue with greater authority than I.

FWIW, most of the M & P products I have seen advertised are not true soaps but

syndet blends that do not meet the USA definition of soap. As such they must

use the cosmetic labeling regulations to be legal. Most suppliers of these

materials argue incorrectly that they are exempt. The laws are very clear on

this issue. Again, this issue only applies to the USA; Canada and all the

other countries have their own regulations that may or may not follow USA

regulations. Please check your local laws.

Young

KY Labs

Innovators of Fine Personal Care Products

www.kylabs.com

Re: M & P Ingredients List help

Many thanks for the clarification on the berries issue and for the other

information. It is only because I am a member of this group that I

questioned the ingredients listing so thanks to those who take the time to

help if you had not I would not of questioned it.

Although I am in the UK this is in reference to a US supplier. Also another

comment made about this product that perhaps yourself or someone would not

mind telling me is that this particular base (I quote) 'meets the FDA

guidelines for " soap " and therefore does not have to be labelled by FDA

standards. No melt and pour base to my knowledge, meets the FDA

requirements for soap'. (un quote)

I have not giving the name of the person who said this as I thought that

would be unfair to do so I am just repeating a section that was stated on

another group. I hope this is ok and not breaking any rules. Many

apologies if I am.

As I am in the UK I would not be purchasing this base I am just trying to

obtain the correct information on this product.

Pat if you read this may I have permission to pass this information on to

the group in question.

Tricia

If you are referencing a USA home crafter supplier they are well known on

this list for their overt lack of knowledge, mistruths, myths and lies.

Young

[Guest guest]

Once again many thanks. I should have explained it was the USA definition I

wanted. I am fine with European law etc.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Tricia

The USA definition of a 'soap' is that the product must be essentially the

alkaline salt of the reaction of fats and oils with an alkali.

[Guest guest]

Because the listing of ingredients included:

vegetable glycerin,

Sorbitol (from berries, moisturizer)

Sorbitan oleate (emulsifier)

Soybean protein (conditioner)

as a soap maker I would classify this as a syndet, as

mentioned because of this section of the FDA definition:

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/cos-215.html

which states: " For purposes of excluding ordinary soap from

regulation as a cosmetic, FDA defines it as a product in which

most of the nonvolatile matter consists of an alkali salt of fatty

acids and whose detergent properties are due to these alkali-fatty

acid compounds. " and " Ordinary soap is solely made up of fats

and an alkali. "

Now the two things that make me think it is syndet is the addition of

a vegetable glycerin when true soap makes it's own natural glycerin

(unless they are just naming it on the label) but also propylene glycol

is the normal ingredient in M & P that makes it melt and pourable. So,

with that defining bit of information would this still possibley pass as

true soap with the purposes described of the Sorbitol (from berries,

moisturizer) Sorbitan oleate (emulsifier), Soybean protein (conditioner) ?

Dee ~ ><}}}*>~~><}}}*>~~ ><}}}*>~

----- Original Message -----

From: Patrica Stahlmann

Once again many thanks. I should have explained it was the USA definition

I wanted. I am fine with European law etc.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Tricia

The USA definition of a 'soap' is that the product must be essentially

the alkaline salt of the reaction of fats and oils with an alkali.