Guest guest Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 In a message dated 8/8/03 11:54:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bathbybettijo@... writes: > Thanks for your suggestions. I have tried searching on Mcintyre > Group and Medline and just didn't have much luck. To bad there isn't > some general resource that compares all the surfactants and tells you > both the chem/trade names. I think I'm getting over my head.--bettijo > Hi Bettijo, I've tried to paste the page, but it may not work. <A HREF= " http://www.mcintyregroup.com/download_web.cfm " > http://www.mcintyregroup.com/download_web.cfm</A> Try this. Go to the McIntyre site and then click on 'products and downloads'. It's the file named: Skin and Eye Scores for Sulfosuccinates and Other Surfactants Please don't get discouraged, you are asking the right questions. Are you saying you are having a difficult time finding the chemical names for the surfactant concentrates that you mentioned? Or do you want to know how the chemicals in each one are ranked in terms of irritation potential and mildness? I can tell you that Bioterge 804 contains sodium C14-16 olefin sulfonate and sodium laureth sulfate and they are ranked at the top of the irritation potential scores. It would not be my choice for a mild shampoo. I'm not sure who manufactures BSB and can't think of the chemicals. The Jordapon Prill is about the same as our SCI Noodles and the toxicology data is excellent--irritation potential scores are very good. Hope this helps, Angie The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 Now that I am learning more about surfactants... I found a few more the piqued my interest and I was curious if someone out there could help me figure out how to distinguish between all the options. I want a surfactant that is natural and gentle but still foams. If I am considering something that is way out of line please let me know ... I am trying to find info on these surfactants but am having much trouble. My supplier doesn't list very much info and I am having trouble finding/understanding the info on the manufactureres site...for those whose manufacturers I could find. In general what surfactants should I stear clear of if I'm going for an " as natural as possible " product. Thanks!--bettijo Ones I've looked at besides those at the Herbarie (gratefully, the Herbarie has lots of info on their surfactants... so helpful) Bioterge 804 Bioterge AS-40 BSB Surfactant Jordapon Prill Surfactant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 Bettijo, I just dug out my file on sodium cocoyl isethionate. Before we started selling it I requested a copy of all the toxicology testing that had been conducted. The study is detailed, but I won't go into it (bunnies)....I'll just share a little of the findings here. On a scale of 0.0 - 5 and above, the sodium cocoyl isethionate scored 1.10 for dermal irritation--considered to have " potential for mild irritation to some people under occlusive wrap conditions " (I have to laugh, if I was under an 'occlusive wrap condition' I would be irritated too lol) On a scale of 0.0 - 110 for occular irritation, there were scores of 1-3 or " minimally irritating " . Now that I'm looking at this, I'm thinking the sodium cocoyl isethionate is probably a likely candidate for a tear-less shampoo, but I don't know that for sure. Anyhow, I thought this may be of interest. Angie The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 In a message dated 8/8/03 2:22:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bathbybettijo@... writes: > Hey thanks... that is good to know. Speaking of tearless shampoo...I > just found out that the BSB surfactant is " Coladet BSB " (Thanks > !) so now I'm waiting to here from Coladet with the INCI names. > This is suppose to be a tearless shampoo surfactant--bettijo > > Hi bettijo, You don't have to wait. Just type ask the search engine. COLADET-BSB PEG-60, Sorbitan te, Sodium Trideceth Sulfate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Disodium Lauroamphoacetate, PEG-150 Distearate, Sodium Laureth-13 Carboxylate, Quaterium-15, Tetrasodium EDTA, DMDM hydartoin, Citric Acid Angie The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 At 03:18 PM 8-8-03 -0400, you wrote: >I'm not sure who >manufactures BSB and can't think of the chemicals. I believe BSB is Coladet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 Yhanks Angie! This does help! I have been trying to find out the chemicals that are in these surfactants... I have an email into my supplier, but I had a lot of free time today and was trying to learn all I could about surfactants in this time that I had. I really feel like I have learned a lot. Thanks so much for all you help! I hope you're not annoyed by my tons of questions! Thanks!--bettijo and mildness? I can > tell you that Bioterge 804 contains sodium C14-16 olefin sulfonate and sodium > laureth sulfate and they are ranked at the top of the irritation potential > scores. It would not be my choice for a mild shampoo. I'm not sure who > manufactures BSB and can't think of the chemicals. The Jordapon Prill is about the > same as our SCI Noodles and the toxicology data is excellent-- irritation > potential scores are very good. > > Hope this helps, > Angie > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 Hey thanks... that is good to know. Speaking of tearless shampoo...I just found out that the BSB surfactant is " Coladet BSB " (Thanks !) so now I'm waiting to here from Coladet with the INCI names. This is suppose to be a tearless shampoo surfactant--bettijo > the sodium cocoyl isethionate is probably a likely candidate for a tear-less > shampoo, but I don't know that for sure. > > Anyhow, I thought this may be of interest. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 8, 2003 Report Share Posted August 8, 2003 Woah! That is a lot of stuff! Now I just have to figure out what they all are! Thanks for the help Angie!--bettijo > > > Hi bettijo, > You don't have to wait. Just type ask the search engine. > > COLADET-BSB > PEG-60, Sorbitan te, Sodium Trideceth Sulfate, Cocamidopropyl > Betaine, Disodium Lauroamphoacetate, PEG-150 Distearate, Sodium Laureth-13 > Carboxylate, Quaterium-15, Tetrasodium EDTA, DMDM hydartoin, Citric Acid > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2003 Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 In a message dated 8/23/03 7:04:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time, nameismj@... writes: > I always throught that surfactants were " cleaners, " i.e., the > cleansing, foaming ingredient in a formula. However, a check of my > Cosmetic Ingredients dictionary says a surfactant is a wetting > ingredient. > > ????????????????? > > Jane > Hi Jane, Surfactants make up a very large category of chemicals/ingredients that are used in cosmetics. Within the category of surfactants (surface active agents), there are cleansers, solubilizer/emulsifiers, conditioners, etc. The main characteristic that is common to all surfactants is the fact that the molecule has a water-loving portion and an oil-loving portion....this makes them into a surface active agent or a compound that reduces surface tension. So, the molecules are all similar in that way. It's like one big family. Within that big family, there are lots of relatives...aunts, uncles, sisters, brothers, etc. Some are closely related and seem very similar, others don't have many similarities, even though they are related. So, within the surfactant family, there are " cleansers " , that are often anionic or amphoteric. Even they will vary in their chemical structure and also in terms of functionality and irritation potential, etc. We are all familiar with some of the nonionic solubilizers/emulsifiers that we've been talking about---these are surfactants too. The cationic products that are often used in cosmetics are excellent conditioners because skin and hair have a negative charge. Hope this helps, Angie The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2003 Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 >I always throught that surfactants were " cleaners, " i.e., the >cleansing, foaming ingredient in a formula. However, a check of my >Cosmetic Ingredients dictionary says a surfactant is a wetting >ingredient. The word " surfactant " is derived from the term SURFace ACTive AgENT. All detergents, emulsifiers, soaps, wetting agents are surface active agents (aka surfactants). I found this post in the message archives >I think many list members will find this short online course >http://www.kcpc.usyd.edu.au/discovery/9.5.5/index.html > >interesting. The course covers the following subjects: > >Saponification Reactions >Industrial Saponification (Raw Materials) >Industrial Saponification (Processes Intro) >Kettle Boiled Batch Saponification >Fatty Acid Neutralisation >Introducing Surfactants >Soaps in Hard Water >Soaps vs Detergents >Oil and Water Can Mix >Surfactants and Emulsions >Types of Emulsions >Detergency and Cleaning >Classification of Surfactants >Anionic Surfactants >Cationic Surfactants >Nonionic Surfactants Maurice -------------------------------------------------------- Maurice O. Hevey Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com ------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 23, 2003 Report Share Posted August 23, 2003 Hi Maurice, this ref. you gave on soaps was indeed very informative and instructive. I liked the historical part on lin's method to determine the molecular dimension of triolein. I love these stories. RJ >I think many list members will find this short online course >http://www.kcpc.usyd.edu.au/discovery/9.5.5/index.html >interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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