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In a message dated 8/8/03 11:54:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

bathbybettijo@... writes:

> Thanks for your suggestions. I have tried searching on Mcintyre

> Group and Medline and just didn't have much luck. To bad there isn't

> some general resource that compares all the surfactants and tells you

> both the chem/trade names. I think I'm getting over my head.--bettijo

>

Hi Bettijo,

I've tried to paste the page, but it may not work. <A

HREF= " http://www.mcintyregroup.com/download_web.cfm " >

http://www.mcintyregroup.com/download_web.cfm</A>

Try this. Go to the McIntyre site and then click on 'products and

downloads'. It's the file named:

Skin and Eye Scores for Sulfosuccinates and Other Surfactants

Please don't get discouraged, you are asking the right questions. Are you

saying you are having a difficult time finding the chemical names for the

surfactant concentrates that you mentioned? Or do you want to know how the

chemicals in each one are ranked in terms of irritation potential and mildness?

I can

tell you that Bioterge 804 contains sodium C14-16 olefin sulfonate and sodium

laureth sulfate and they are ranked at the top of the irritation potential

scores. It would not be my choice for a mild shampoo. I'm not sure who

manufactures BSB and can't think of the chemicals. The Jordapon Prill is about

the

same as our SCI Noodles and the toxicology data is excellent--irritation

potential scores are very good.

Hope this helps,

Angie

The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care

Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality

at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com

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Now that I am learning more about surfactants... I found a few more

the piqued my interest and I was curious if someone out there could

help me figure out how to distinguish between all the options. I

want a surfactant that is natural and gentle but still foams. If I

am considering something that is way out of line please let me

know ... I am trying to find info on these surfactants but am having

much trouble. My supplier doesn't list very much info and I am

having trouble finding/understanding the info on the manufactureres

site...for those whose manufacturers I could find. In general what

surfactants should I stear clear of if I'm going for an " as natural

as possible " product. Thanks!--bettijo

Ones I've looked at besides those at the Herbarie (gratefully, the

Herbarie has lots of info on their surfactants... so helpful)

Bioterge 804

Bioterge AS-40

BSB Surfactant

Jordapon Prill Surfactant

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Bettijo,

I just dug out my file on sodium cocoyl isethionate. Before we started

selling it I requested a copy of all the toxicology testing that had been

conducted. The study is detailed, but I won't go into it (bunnies)....I'll just

share

a little of the findings here. On a scale of 0.0 - 5 and above, the sodium

cocoyl isethionate scored 1.10 for dermal irritation--considered to have

" potential for mild irritation to some people under occlusive wrap conditions "

(I

have to laugh, if I was under an 'occlusive wrap condition' I would be irritated

too lol) On a scale of 0.0 - 110 for occular irritation, there were scores

of 1-3 or " minimally irritating " . Now that I'm looking at this, I'm thinking

the sodium cocoyl isethionate is probably a likely candidate for a tear-less

shampoo, but I don't know that for sure.

Anyhow, I thought this may be of interest.

Angie

The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care

Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality

at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com

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In a message dated 8/8/03 2:22:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

bathbybettijo@... writes:

> Hey thanks... that is good to know. Speaking of tearless shampoo...I

> just found out that the BSB surfactant is " Coladet BSB " (Thanks

> !) so now I'm waiting to here from Coladet with the INCI names.

> This is suppose to be a tearless shampoo surfactant--bettijo

>

>

Hi bettijo,

You don't have to wait. Just type ask the search engine.

COLADET-BSB

PEG-60, Sorbitan te, Sodium Trideceth Sulfate, Cocamidopropyl

Betaine, Disodium Lauroamphoacetate, PEG-150 Distearate, Sodium Laureth-13

Carboxylate, Quaterium-15, Tetrasodium EDTA, DMDM hydartoin, Citric Acid

Angie

The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care

Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality

at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com

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Yhanks Angie! This does help! I have been trying to find out the

chemicals that are in these surfactants... I have an email into my

supplier, but I had a lot of free time today and was trying to learn

all I could about surfactants in this time that I had. I really feel

like I have learned a lot. Thanks so much for all you help! I hope

you're not annoyed by my tons of questions! Thanks!--bettijo

and mildness? I can

> tell you that Bioterge 804 contains sodium C14-16 olefin sulfonate

and sodium

> laureth sulfate and they are ranked at the top of the irritation

potential

> scores. It would not be my choice for a mild shampoo. I'm not

sure who

> manufactures BSB and can't think of the chemicals. The Jordapon

Prill is about the

> same as our SCI Noodles and the toxicology data is excellent--

irritation

> potential scores are very good.

>

> Hope this helps,

> Angie

>

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Hey thanks... that is good to know. Speaking of tearless shampoo...I

just found out that the BSB surfactant is " Coladet BSB " (Thanks

!) so now I'm waiting to here from Coladet with the INCI names.

This is suppose to be a tearless shampoo surfactant--bettijo

> the sodium cocoyl isethionate is probably a likely candidate for a

tear-less

> shampoo, but I don't know that for sure.

>

> Anyhow, I thought this may be of interest.

>

>

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Woah! That is a lot of stuff! Now I just have to figure out what

they all are! ;)

Thanks for the help Angie!--bettijo

> >

> Hi bettijo,

> You don't have to wait. Just type ask the search engine.

>

> COLADET-BSB

> PEG-60, Sorbitan te, Sodium Trideceth Sulfate,

Cocamidopropyl

> Betaine, Disodium Lauroamphoacetate, PEG-150 Distearate, Sodium

Laureth-13

> Carboxylate, Quaterium-15, Tetrasodium EDTA, DMDM hydartoin, Citric

Acid

>

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  • 2 weeks later...

In a message dated 8/23/03 7:04:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time, nameismj@...

writes:

> I always throught that surfactants were " cleaners, " i.e., the

> cleansing, foaming ingredient in a formula. However, a check of my

> Cosmetic Ingredients dictionary says a surfactant is a wetting

> ingredient.

>

> ?????????????????

>

> Jane

>

Hi Jane,

Surfactants make up a very large category of chemicals/ingredients that are

used in cosmetics. Within the category of surfactants (surface active agents),

there are cleansers, solubilizer/emulsifiers, conditioners, etc. The main

characteristic that is common to all surfactants is the fact that the molecule

has a water-loving portion and an oil-loving portion....this makes them into a

surface active agent or a compound that reduces surface tension. So, the

molecules are all similar in that way. It's like one big family. Within that

big

family, there are lots of relatives...aunts, uncles, sisters, brothers, etc.

Some are closely related and seem very similar, others don't have many

similarities, even though they are related. So, within the surfactant family,

there

are " cleansers " , that are often anionic or amphoteric. Even they will vary in

their chemical structure and also in terms of functionality and irritation

potential, etc. We are all familiar with some of the nonionic

solubilizers/emulsifiers that we've been talking about---these are surfactants

too. The

cationic products that are often used in cosmetics are excellent conditioners

because

skin and hair have a negative charge.

Hope this helps,

Angie

The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care

Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality

at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com

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>I always throught that surfactants were " cleaners, " i.e., the

>cleansing, foaming ingredient in a formula. However, a check of my

>Cosmetic Ingredients dictionary says a surfactant is a wetting

>ingredient.

The word " surfactant " is derived from the term SURFace ACTive AgENT. All

detergents, emulsifiers, soaps, wetting agents are surface active agents (aka

surfactants).

I found this post in the message archives

>I think many list members will find this short online course

>http://www.kcpc.usyd.edu.au/discovery/9.5.5/index.html

>

>interesting. The course covers the following subjects:

>

>Saponification Reactions

>Industrial Saponification (Raw Materials)

>Industrial Saponification (Processes Intro)

>Kettle Boiled Batch Saponification

>Fatty Acid Neutralisation

>Introducing Surfactants

>Soaps in Hard Water

>Soaps vs Detergents

>Oil and Water Can Mix

>Surfactants and Emulsions

>Types of Emulsions

>Detergency and Cleaning

>Classification of Surfactants

>Anionic Surfactants

>Cationic Surfactants

>Nonionic Surfactants

Maurice

--------------------------------------------------------

Maurice O. Hevey

Convergent Cosmetics, Inc.

http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com

-------------------------------------------------------

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