Re: Morning Feelings

[Guest guest]

Hi Bruce,

That happens to me sometimes, most often when I wake up in the middle of the night. I deal with it by noticing the fear as soon as I encounter it. I don't know how to keep it from happening in the first place, pre-thought. When you go to bed, do you usually feel peaceful? If not, do you have a routine in place that will relax you bedtime? I stretch and take a warm bath when I am feeling stressed near bedtime and I am amazed at how much that helps. Sometimes I take Advil PM, too -- not often, but when I need it, it sure helps.

Best,

Helena

Morning Feelings

How do you deal with feeling anxiety and fear first thing in the morning? I often wake up with the fear already in place, even though no particular thought caused it. I haven't had time to think and the fear is already there.thanks,Bruce

[Guest guest]

I usually do feel good at bedtime. In general, I start feeling better around 8:00pm each day. I'm not sure why this is. Maybe it's that the day is coming to an end, along with the risk of something bad happening. I don't have much risk during day, either but that's another topic...I almost always go right to sleep but lately I've been waking up many times during the night. I don't feel the fear until the morning.Thanks,BruceHi Bruce, That happens to me sometimes, most often when I wake up in the middle of the night.  I deal with it by noticing the fear as soon as I encounter it.  I don't know how to keep it from happening in the first place, pre-thought.  When you go to bed, do you usually feel peaceful?  If not, do you have a routine in place that will relax you bedtime?  I stretch and take a warm bath when I am feeling stressed near bedtime and I am amazed at how much that helps.  Sometimes I take Advil PM, too -- not often, but when I need it, it sure helps.  Best,Helena   Morning FeelingsHow do you deal with feeling anxiety and fear first thing in the morning? I often wake up with the fear already in place, even though no particular thought caused it. I haven't had time to think and the fear is already there.thanks,Bruce

[Guest guest]

I'm just the opposite. I feel great when I get up and decline as the day goes on. I know what it is like to feel better when the day is coming to an end. I felt like that when I was in abusive relationships. What is your fear about; can you share that with or, if you can put it into words?

Helena

Morning Feelings

How do you deal with feeling anxiety and fear first thing in the morning? I often wake up with the fear already in place, even though no particular thought caused it. I haven't had time to think and the fear is already there.thanks,Bruce

[Guest guest]

That is a good question. I don't really know what the fear is, except the fear of feeling fear throughout the day.BruceI'm just the opposite.  I feel great when I get up and decline as the day goes on.  I know what it is like to feel better when the day is coming to an end.  I felt like that when I was in abusive relationships.  What is your fear about; can you share that with or, if you can put  it into words?  Helena   Morning FeelingsHow do you deal with feeling anxiety and fear first thing in the morning? I often wake up with the fear already in place, even though no particular thought caused it. I haven't had time to think and the fear is already there.thanks,Bruce

[Guest guest]

So it's the fear of fear itself? In 1933, lin D. Roosevelt said, during the Great Depression: "... let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself -- nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes ..."

I think those words may apply in your case. Maybe if you could identify the fear, you could work on defusing it? Maybe you might need professional counseling to accomplish that?

Best,

Helena

Morning Feelings

How do you deal with feeling anxiety and fear first thing in the morning? I often wake up with the fear already in place, even though no particular thought caused it. I haven't had time to think and the fear is already there.thanks,Bruce

[Guest guest]

Something that I enjoy is to make a point to be mindful just before I

go to bed at night and first thing in the morning when I wake. It

works for me just to put that thought and effort into starting and

ending my day. It might be worth a try.

>

> >

> > Hi Bruce,

> >

> > That happens to me sometimes, most often when I wake up in the

> > middle of the night. I deal with it by noticing the fear as

soon

> > as I encounter it. I don't know how to keep it from happening

in

> > the first place, pre-thought. When you go to bed, do you

usually

> > feel peaceful? If not, do you have a routine in place that will

> > relax you bedtime? I stretch and take a warm bath when I am

> > feeling stressed near bedtime and I am amazed at how much that

> > helps. Sometimes I take Advil PM, too -- not often, but when I

> > need it, it sure helps.

> >

> > Best,

> > Helena

> >

> > Morning Feelings

> >

> > How do you deal with feeling anxiety and fear first thing in the

> > morning? I often wake up with the fear already in place, even

though

> > no particular thought caused it. I haven't had time to think and

the

> > fear is already there.

> >

> > thanks,

> > Bruce

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Bruce,

I would imagine that most of us have a more difficult time in the

morning because that is the time when our stress hormones are at their

natural daily peak (our cortisol and epinephrine levels increase upon

waking in order to give us the 'oomph' to get going on the day).

On bad days, what works for me is 1) to remember that it's the anxiety

talking, a feeling created by the mind, not something real that demands

my serious attention, 2) to use the experience as an opportunity to

practice mindfulness, defusion, letting go (non-control), non-

judgmental acceptance, and to practice these things imperfectly,

without clinging to expectations or demands for how things have to go

and 3) to identify valued actions and to just take them period, letting

the anxiety come along if that's what it prefers.

On a dietary level, I find that it also helps to eat a healthy

breakfast high in fat and protein and low in

sugar/carbs/coffee/caffeine.

But the main thing is, just remember that it's your mind, not something

that you need to be too concerned about. No big deal. You've seen the

stuff before, just let it do its thing, and it will pass over (until

the next bad morning, of course, lol).

Best wishes,

--

>

> How do you deal with feeling anxiety and fear first thing in the

> morning? I often wake up with the fear already in place, even though

> no particular thought caused it. I haven't had time to think and the

> fear is already there.

>

> thanks,

> Bruce

>

[Guest guest]

sometimes we don't know when we are thinking; it's an endless process

LOL ivor

Morning Feelings

How do you deal with feeling anxiety and fear first thing in the morning? I often wake up with the fear already in place, even though no particular thought caused it. I haven't had time to think and the fear is already there.thanks,Bruce

[Guest guest]

reactive depressives usually start the day good but decline thro' the day wheras indgenous(not sure about spelling) depressives start poorly but feel better at end of day

ivor

Morning Feelings

How do you deal with feeling anxiety and fear first thing in the morning? I often wake up with the fear already in place, even though no particular thought caused it. I haven't had time to think and the fear is already there.thanks,Bruce

[Guest guest]

Helina

Do you still take medication for depression?

LOL ivor

>

>

>

>

> Hi Bruce,

>

> That happens to me sometimes, most often when I wake up in

the middle of the night. I deal with it by noticing the fear as soon

as I encounter it. I don't know how to keep it from happening in the

first place, pre-thought. When you go to bed, do you usually feel

peaceful? If not, do you have a routine in place that will relax you

bedtime? I stretch and take a warm bath when I am feeling stressed

near bedtime and I am amazed at how much that helps. Sometimes I

take Advil PM, too -- not often, but when I need it, it sure helps.

>

> Best,

> Helena

>

> Morning Feelings

>

>

> How do you deal with feeling anxiety and fear first thing

in the

> morning? I often wake up with the fear already in place,

even though

> no particular thought caused it. I haven't had time to

think and the

> fear is already there.

>

> thanks,

> Bruce

>

[Guest guest]

I'm no expert but I would rather think that it doesn't make complete

sense to say that people suffering from depression (in particular

depression that last for a long time or major depression) are either

suffering from reactive depression or endogenous depression.

The terms reactive implies that your depression is entirely the

result of your reaction to some external life events whereas the term

endogenous implies that the depression comes entirely from within, ie

is a result of your biology. Therefore the latter can often be an

easy explanation for depression that seems to have no obvious cause!

Like why are you depressed when you have everything going for you!

In reality though even people who are biologically predisposed to

becoming depressed suffer life events and can learn to react to them

differently and this learning starts at birth.

So all depression would seem to be a mixture of biology, learning and

reactions to life.

I've also read that reactive depression is generally not used as a

diagnosis if the depression goes on for a long time. After all if you

don't cope with disturbing life events for a long time you will

yourself likely start reacting to everything in a depressed way. You

will end up like the apparently " endogenous depressive " because your

way of reacting to life will actually be changing your brain and your

identity. So really whichever it is the only place to begin as I see

it is with yourself and the way you cope with life. That's probably

the only point where you can make real decisions that will lift your

depression.

Just my theory. Not sure if it is correct!

Louise

PS Still wondering if anyone has any ideas for dealing with anxiety

while I am asleep!

>

> Perhaps I am an exception to that rule, because I have been

diagnosed with major indigenous depression by every psychiatrist I

have seen, and I've seen a lot, starting in childhood after my first

suicide attempt.

>

> Helena

>

> Re: Morning Feelings

>

>

>

> reactive depressives usually start the day good but decline thro'

the day wheras indgenous(not sure about spelling) depressives start

poorly but feel better at end of day

> ivor

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Louise,

>

> I can totally relate to what you are saying. I think defining

depression as either reactive or endogenous is quite tricky, and most

of my therapists didn't want to go there. In my case, it is probably

both. My parents both had serious personality disorders, and my

genes came from them. Then, life experiences brought another insult,

and I cannot deny that, either.

>

> It is complicated to make an accurate diagnosis about what caused

one's depression; so many factors are involved. I just know I have

been depressed for my entire life, and I accept that and deal with it

the best I can. ACT is so helpful to me because noticing my thoughts

as JUST THOUGHTS, and NOT ME, is an amazing tool.

>

> Best,

> Helena

Thanks for the reply, Helena. In my case I had a breakdown and my

therapist said that anyone would have broken under the pressure I was

under and the string of stressful life events that coincided. Well, I

suppose he was reacting to my guilt at having to take time off work.

In reality I suppose it's not true though, however helpful it was to

say that to me at the time as some people survive much worse

unscathed. But I do realise that my reaction to these events didn't

come from nowhere. It was partly to do with my biology (also parents

with disorders) and upbringing (being brought up with parents with

disorders affects how you learn to deal with stressful events!)

The only thing I would say or possibly query and that is probably

because I am pedantic or at least curious and also a linguist is the

emphasis given on accepting thoughts as just thoughts. I totally

agree if we are talking about *anxious intrusive thoughts*. But that

distinction is not often made here. I have OCD and am familiar with

the theory relating to intrusive thoughts and accept that overvaluing

anxious thoughts by trying to suppress them rather than accept them

is a bad idea.

However, some thoughts (ie thinking!) are valuable, aren't they? If

they weren't there would be no point in people writing books on ACT

or doing CBT or participating in this forum.

I think some of my thoughts are me and if I want to decide to

practise just accepting thoughts as not particularly important I do

presumably have to make some distinction between the ones that are

dysfunctional and the ones that are useful?

Making that judgement also involves some thought.

Of course, people with OCD aren't always very good at deciding which

thoughts are dysfunctional but is the answer to treat all thoughts as

unimportant?

Maybe the question is irrelevant but it seems important to me:-)

Louise

[Guest guest]

>

> Louise, I don't think ACT is about treating all thoughts as not

important. It is only those thoughts the are lies that need to be

defused. Like, I am unworthy. I am helpless. The thought that I did

a good job on that assignment at work does not need to be defused.

Thoughts that reflect your worth as a human being are welcome.

Thoughts that tear you down are not welcome and just need to be

noticed and not believed. So there is a distinction to be made about

thoughts. And, as you say, it is not always an easy distinction to

make.

I am sure ACT is not about treating all thoughts as not important

because ACT therapists in responsding to our thoughts here are

clearly treating them as relevant.

I think I'm probably saying that we tend to use language rather

loosely when we talk about thoughts as not all thoughts are the same.

I think there has to be a stage where you determine whether a thought

is helpful or not before you decide to defuse it, don't you? that to

me implies a stage where you are almost bound to be involved in some

sort of cognitive restructuring (which I have to admit I've found

very helpful) even if you don't intend to do so. Of course, you don't

need to get stuck at that stage<G>

I agree totally with your comment about not feeling guilty. Guilt is

something that gets you nowhere fast!

Louise