Re: basic linen or body mist

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/17/03 5:03:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

sherryscreations2@... writes:

> Angie

> Is it possible to make a " very simple linen or body mist " using just

> rubbing alcohol and some glycerin and fragrance oil ?

> Sherry

Hi Sherry,

Anything is possible But I don't think this would work very well. I've

heard people talk about using alcohol--various types--to solubilize fragrance

oils or essential oils into water, but I've never been able to make it happen.

I don't see how it could. I am not sure if perfumer's alcohol contains

solubilizers or not--so I am a little confused as to how it works.

I think glycerin would be a nice addition to a body mist, but not needed in a

linen mist. Rubbing alcohol is sort of stinky to me, so I don't know that I

would want to use it in a linen spray or body mist.

If I had the time, I would love to experiment all day long, but yesterday had

about one free hour to play. I decided on a basic experimental formula for a

linen mist...with 8% polysorbate 20, 1% essential oil, 91% distilled water.

I tried various eos within this formula just to see which would solubilize and

which would not. I also substituted 8% polysorbate 80 for the 20, using the

same eos, same percentages, just to compare the differences. It was

interesting. I got a clear solution using 8% of both polysorbates for most of

the eos

that I tried. I didn't see any differences in functionality the polysorbates

at all. But the two eos (clary sage and rosemary) that didn't completely

solubilize (were cloudy) at that percentage---did completely solubilize when I

changed the formula and used 4% polysorbate 20 and 4% polysorbate 80. I thought

that was interesting too. So, with 8% as a baseline for a clear solution for

most eos, we could probably take it down for some and would have to take it up

for some. Or we could use combinations of emulsifiers/solubilizers. I've

also tried sorbitan isostearate with polysorbate 20 in some solutions with

success. There are alot of possibilities.

I haven't tried nonoxynol 9 as suggested. It sounds like it's a better

solubilizer than the polysorbates, but with the polysorbates so readily

available and relatively inexpensive I think they are probably the best thing to

use in a linen mist for most of us. I do like the idea of adding an alcohol of

some sort to the solution at 15-18% to make a lighter, less 'wet' spray.

Another interesting tidbit of info...I was told by one of the techs at Croda

that a water/solubilizer/fo/eo combo solution should not be heated or very

much mechanical energy used. She said the solubilization/stability achieved may

not be " real " . She said it's best to mix the solubilizer and eo or fo with

simple stirring. Then add room temp water with simple stirring. Then if

alcohol

is part of the formula, add it to this solution.

Sherry, I know you asked a simple question and now I've written a

dissertation---sorry! Hope it helps a bit though.

Angie

The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care

Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality

at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/17/03 8:12:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

achil@... writes:

> Sherry, I make a body mist with alcohol, water, glycerin, and either

> essential oils or fragrance oils. I use 200 proof denatured alcohol and keep

> it at 70% to keep CA happy. I don't think you would want to use rubbing

> alcohol because of the smell...it would be too difficult to cover up.

>

> I haven't made a linen spray, but I am assuming that people use those while

> ironing? Some fragrance oils are colored, don't people worry about staining?

>

Pat, does the alcohol solubilize the fo or eo? I didn't think it could. Do

you mix the eo/fo with the alcohol first, then add glycerin, then add water?

Angie

The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care

Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality

at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com

[Guest guest]

Angie

Is it possible to make a " very simple linen or body mist " using just

rubbing alcohol and some glycerin and fragrance oil ?

Sherry

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[Guest guest]

> Is it possible to make a " very simple linen or body mist " using just

> rubbing alcohol and some glycerin and fragrance oil ?

Sherry, I make a body mist with alcohol, water, glycerin, and either

essential oils or fragrance oils. I use 200 proof denatured alcohol and keep

it at 70% to keep CA happy. I don't think you would want to use rubbing

alcohol because of the smell...it would be too difficult to cover up.

I haven't made a linen spray, but I am assuming that people use those while

ironing? Some fragrance oils are colored, don't people worry about staining?

Pat.

Peace, Joy, Serenity

House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc.

pat@...

http://www.houseofscents.com/

----- Original Message -----

[Guest guest]

I was wondering this as well. One product that I have seen here is

designed to be poured into the iron itself, so that it scents the

items as they are (steam) ironed. My guess is that these should not

contain very much, if any alcohol, although maybe I am wrong about

that! Is this a normal usage for a linen spray, or would this be a

different product? I had assumed that it was just water, fragrance

and an emulsifier; being a non-cosmetic there is no ingredient list.

If a linen spray is designed to be used whilst ironing, even if not

actually put in the iron, then what is the advantage of the alcohol?

Wouldn't a slow evaporation of the product be aesthetically (can you

use that word for a smell?!) more pleasing; in that it would seem to

make the linen smell for longer? Or would that depend on that

volatility of the fragrance?

Rose

The London Soap Company

>

> I haven't made a linen spray, but I am assuming that people use

those while

> ironing? Some fragrance oils are colored, don't people worry about

staining?

>

> Pat.

[Guest guest]

> I was wondering this as well.

Rose I don't think I would be spraying something yellowish on my white Irish

Linen:-)

My guess is that these should not

> contain very much, if any alcohol, although maybe I am wrong about

> that! Is this a normal usage for a linen spray, or would this be a

> different product? I had assumed that it was just water, fragrance

> and an emulsifier; being a non-cosmetic there is no ingredient list.

I don't think I would make them the same way as I would a body mist. With

the body mist you want the body to dry as fast as possible, therefore you

use as much alcohol as you can. If you are not going to use an emulsifier

with the linen mist, I can see using a high ratio of alcohol. If you are

using an emulsifier I don't see why you would need the alcohol, it would

just be an added cost.

Who makes linen mists out there, perhaps you could enlighten us?

Pat.

Peace, Joy, Serenity

House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc.

pat@...

http://www.houseofscents.com/

[Guest guest]

I make a linen water that is for spraying my linen blouses before I iron

them...What I do is mix 1 part polysorbate 20 and 1 part EO of choice then

add distilled water until the scent is just strong enough. I wouldn't like

any other additive for ironing..When I use this stuff, I get the linen quite

damp...the iron dries it and after it cools you can faintly smell the scent.

I love the stuff.

I make a similar product that I sell that is a moisturizing body spray for

summer. I do exactly the same process but I heat the water first, and add

hydrolyzed oat protien. I use preservative in this and add it when I add the

blend of eo and polysorbate 20.Thats it. It leaves a lovely scented velvet

feel to skin.(I really haven't paid that much attention to whether the

mixture is clear or not..I use aluminum bottles so its not an issue.

Sutton

> I was wondering this as well. One product that I have seen here is

> designed to be poured into the iron itself, so that it scents the

> items as they are (steam) ironed. My guess is that these should not

> contain very much, if any alcohol, although maybe I am wrong about

> that! Is this a normal usage for a linen spray, or would this be a

> different product? I had assumed that it was just water, fragrance

> and an emulsifier; being a non-cosmetic there is no ingredient list.

>

> If a linen spray is designed to be used whilst ironing, even if not

> actually put in the iron, then what is the advantage of the alcohol?

> Wouldn't a slow evaporation of the product be aesthetically (can you

> use that word for a smell?!) more pleasing; in that it would seem to

> make the linen smell for longer? Or would that depend on that

> volatility of the fragrance?

> Rose

> The London Soap Company

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/17/03 3:29:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

cromptonrt@... writes:

> was wondering this as well. One product that I have seen here is

> designed to be poured into the iron itself, so that it scents the

> items as they are (steam) ironed.

Hi Rose,

Good point! It may be that we are using a particular term and envisioning

all together different functions! What we're trying to make is probably better

described as a pillow spray. Something that is sprayed on the linens after

they are on the bed. At least that's what I think wanted to make.

Angie

The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care

Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality

at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com

[Guest guest]

Good Morning Pat, Lezlee, ,

I surely do appreciate your suggestions in making a product of this type.

It's helpful to have input and so interesting to learn how people perceive

things.

While I do think the basic concept for making a linen mist--which for our

purposes is misted on linens that are already on a bed, used to freshen or

induce

relaxation or sleep---is the same as making a body mist, room spray, or other

emulsion, I do think there are subtle differences that can be important.

Also, I've been referring to these as solutions, but suppose that is technically

incorrect. I suppose they are really emulsions, since oil, water, and

emulsifier are involved. But anyway, in a body mist, an emollient could be a

plus,

in a linen mist (either type) an emollient is not desirable. In a body mist, I

would also add ingredients like suggested, hydrolyzed oats, etc. For

an ironing spray, the wet spray is desirable, but in a body mist or

linen/pillow mist, it's probably not. That's why I'm thinking that maybe 10%

alcohol or

so would be a good addition to aid in evaporation in a linen/pillow mist, even

if you are using an emulsifier/solubilizer.

I'm like , I always package in cobalt glass and it doesn't matter to me

if the solution is cloudy or not and I usually leave it cloudy, rather than

add enough solubilizer to make it clear/completely solubilize. Or as Lezlee (I

think) said, just put 'shake well before using' on the label...I've done that

with room sprays/fresheners. But our goal for this linen mist is to package

it in clear bottles, so it needed to be clear.

After playing around with several different ingredients, for me the easiest

and most practical solution to making this clear linen mist is to simply use

enough poly 20 to make a clear product. This works fine and with the addition

of 10% alcohol or so, will evaporate better, leaving the scent on the pillow,

but will not be as wet. By the way, all the leftover cloudy experiments work

great as a second final rinse in the washer , there's another product

for you!

On a different note, I've been trying to make an emollient body mist that I

really like for quite a while. Pam Ingle has a formula for one that I want to

try out. It's not clear, but sounds like it would be very nice. It uses our

Conditioning Emulsifier as a key ingredient. For a light emollient body mist,

I do like the dimethicone copolyol very much. I only experimented with 3-4

eos and no fos, but the eos were completely solubilized/clear. I'm thinking if

the dimethicone copolyol doesn't have the capability to solubilize all fos, a

bit of poly 20 or other solubilizer could also be used.

But yes, the principle is the same for making any of these products. If our

carrier is water and an ingredient is not water-soluble or dispersible and

won't go into solution, then we need a solubilizer/emulsifier to make it happen.

Since so many people like to solubilize fragrance oils in water, I think it

would be helpful to better understand the chemical backbone of fragrance oils.

We know the general chemical composition for each of the essential oils.

With the variations, some will have more affinity for certain solubilizers than

others...just like all chemicals. I just don't know perfumery very well and

don't know the " classes " or types of fragrances...does anyone? Maybe they are

so varied that there are no chemical types. This leads to the last question.

Who knows the components of perfumer's alcohol? What distinguishes it from any

other alcohol? I talked with the rep at Berje's yesterday and she had never

heard of anything referred to as perfumer's alcohol.

So, once again thank you all for your valuable suggestions.

Angie

The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care

Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality

at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Angie & " Mist " keteers,

One would think that formulating a scented body mist would be a piece of

cake, compared with lotion other products... but as we've found, that's not

the case. Having a clear goal in mind, and working towards it by

determining what factors are most significant..... after feel, appearance &

clarity, stability, safe & " all natural " etc.. helps tremendously.

Though, I would have a difficult time expecting a customer to buy bottle of

something labeled with " water, polysorbate 20 and fragrance " as the only

declared ingredients. Seems a bit of a rip off, especially if the product

is to be used as leave on body product.

Angie wrote....

> On a different note, I've been trying to make an emollient body mist that

I

> really like for quite a while. Pam Ingle has a formula for one that I

want to

> try out. It's not clear, but sounds like it would be very nice. It uses

our

> Conditioning Emulsifier as a key ingredient.

Conditioning Emulsifier is the key ingredients, along with C 12--15 Alkyl

Benzoate. I'm very pleased with the latest attempt, and will stay with it,

although I would like to try " one more test batch " using PEG 7 Olive Oil

Esters. Although clear would have been nice, function and feel won out.

Best,

Pam

[Guest guest]

Hello all

I make a simple linen spray.... blending the glycerin and eo's together seems

to help them dispense, although i don't know why

200ml Witch Hazel

2ml glycerin

20 drops of Essential oil

although i would like it to be clear i too am concerned about white linen, I

found that using EO's that have virtually no colour work well

Lavandin

Eucalyptus

Rosemary

Hope this helps

I would like to know how to obtain a clear solution without using any other

chemicals, if anyone has been successful at this I would love to know

...

Bianca

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/18/03 10:20:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

pingle@... writes:

> Hi Angie & " Mist " keteers,

> One would think that formulating a scented body mist would be a piece of

> cake, compared with lotion other products... but as we've found, that's not

> the case. Having a clear goal in mind, and working towards it by

> determining what factors are most significant..... after feel, appearance &

> clarity, stability, safe & " all natural " etc.. helps tremendously.

>

Hi Pam and Mistketeers

I agree. At first glance, making a body mist seems about as simple as it

gets, but I think there are valuable lessons to be learned about solubilization,

emulsification, perception, priorities, etc. in the process.

There's a difference between solvents/solutions and emulsions and I apologize

for not making that distinction earlier. I think folks might have been

confusing the two concepts.

Anyhow, I still have not made your emollient body spray, but will next time I

have a free few minutes...it sounds wonderful! Pam, you have some of the

most creative ideas!

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread!

Angie

PS I'm still curious about the chemical backbone of the fragrance oils and

perfumer's alcohol ?????

The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care

Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality

at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com

[Guest guest]

> PS I'm still curious about the chemical backbone of the fragrance oils

and

> perfumer's alcohol ?????

Angie, I would be surprised if the perfumer's alcohol was anything other

than SD 39-C. It may even be SD 40-B. Don't forget they are required to list

the ingredients and I sincerely doubt that perfumer's alcohol is a proper

INCI term.

Pat.

Peace, Joy, Serenity

House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc.

pat@...

http://www.houseofscents.com/

----- Original Message -----

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

For those who are interested in reading more about solubilization, there's

some good info in our files section. I don't think I can put a link to it in

this email, but it's in the files under Ingredients and is named Solubilization.

I'll try the link. <A

HREF= " http://f4.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/cEDyPo0vZMGvKWV3wrrup8Orx7Kjat64FLsqj7weeByBE\

PXCpVvS-PnfS5teJ4sTbH12xe5PngtEh8MSlkm2AWWiqqM/Ingredients/Solubilization.pdf " >

http://f4.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/cEDyPo0vZMGvKWV3wrrup8Orx7Kjat64FLsqj7weeByBEPXCpVv\

S-PnfS5teJ4sTbH12xe5PngtEh8MSlkm2AWWiqqM/Ingredients/S

olubilization.pdf</A>

Angie

The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care

Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality

at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com

[Guest guest]

> I was wondering this as well. One product that I have seen here is

> designed to be poured into the iron itself, so that it scents the

> items as they are (steam) ironed. My guess is that these should not

> contain very much, if any alcohol, although maybe I am wrong about

> that! Is this a normal usage for a linen spray, or would this be a

> different product? I had assumed that it was just water, fragrance

> and an emulsifier; being a non-cosmetic there is no ingredient

list.

Rose, I have on my desl a 1 liter bottle of " Eau de Linge - Perfumed

Ironing Water " made in France by Savonnerie De Bormes

(www.savonborme.com). There's an ingredient list on the bottle. I'm

not that informed in chemistry to be able to know what the

ingredients are actually. Here's this list as it appears on the

bottle, I even respected the commas (there's some figures and I don't

know what they stand for):

Aqua (Water), parfum

5 - Bromo - 5 - Nitro - 1.3 Dioxane

I never opened that bottle I bought last August. When I shake it,

large bubbles form at the surface of the liquid. Not like in a bath

bubble. They are less abundant.

If anybody can " translate " in lay-person words what are those

ingredient I'd be very interested. As it is labelled " Ironing Water " ,

comes by the liter and doesn't have a spray, I suppose you put it in

the iron.

Zoubida

[Guest guest]

Thanks Zoubida!

I have 5-bromo-5-nitro-1,3-dioxane listed as a preservative.

The plot thickens; what is keeping the fragrance in solution? Or does

this come back to Angie's question about fos, and that there are

inately water soluble fragrances?

An absolute guess about those bubbles; as I recall multiple distilled

waters have a somewhat thick 'oily' appearance. Perhaps that is

causing the bubbles?

Rose

The London Soap Company

In Cosmeticinfo , " malikpilon " <malikpilon@y...> wrote:

> Rose, I have on my desl a 1 liter bottle of " Eau de Linge - Perfumed

> Ironing Water " made in France by Savonnerie De Bormes

> (www.savonborme.com). There's an ingredient list on the bottle. I'm

> not that informed in chemistry to be able to know what the

> ingredients are actually. Here's this list as it appears on the

> bottle, I even respected the commas (there's some figures and I don't

> know what they stand for):

>

> Aqua (Water), parfum

> 5 - Bromo - 5 - Nitro - 1.3 Dioxane

>

> I never opened that bottle I bought last August. When I shake it,

> large bubbles form at the surface of the liquid. Not like in a bath

> bubble. They are less abundant.

>

> If anybody can " translate " in lay-person words what are those

> ingredient I'd be very interested. As it is labelled " Ironing Water " ,

> comes by the liter and doesn't have a spray, I suppose you put it in

> the iron.

>

> Zoubida

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/20/03 2:45:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

cromptonrt@... writes:

> The plot thickens; what is keeping the fragrance in solution? Or does

> this come back to Angie's question about fos, and that there are

> inately water soluble fragrances?

>

Hi Rose and All,

I was hoping we'd hear from someone that knows, but I will take a guess here

and say that I bet fragrances will have either an alcohol or lipophilic

chemical " backbone " or structure. So, I'm guessing this is why some fos will go

into solution with alcohol as a solvent....and why others need a solubilizer

such

as poly 20, etc when water is the carrier. I am almost certain that there is

no water-soluble fragrance base. But it seems like the fragrance chemicals

could be put into a dispersible type material, like the PEG oils??? I really

don't know, though.

Angie

The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care

Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality

at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com

[Guest guest]

I opened the bottle and poured some of it on my hands. It feels like

water. BTW the fragrance (Green Tea) is awesome. I'd really love my

linens to smell like this.

It sure is intriguing. Only water, fragrance and preservative... The

bottle is transparent and the liquid is totally clear and

transparent. No color, no clouding.

I wonder if those non oil friendly FOs (sorry, I don't remember the

exact terminology for those), the ones which do not work for CP soap,

would work better in a perfumed water.

I have some FOs that are " oily " . They make oil patch floating on top

of other liquids, even on top of soap " broth " when adding them at

light trace.

Could it be that the way the FO is made so it is soluable in oil or

in non-oil substances makes a difference for linen water?

Oh! and the correct addy for the site is www.savonbormes.com

Zoubida

> Thanks Zoubida!

>

> I have 5-bromo-5-nitro-1,3-dioxane listed as a preservative.

>

> The plot thickens; what is keeping the fragrance in solution? Or

does

> this come back to Angie's question about fos, and that there are

> inately water soluble fragrances?

>

> An absolute guess about those bubbles; as I recall multiple

distilled

> waters have a somewhat thick 'oily' appearance. Perhaps that is

> causing the bubbles?

> Rose

> The London Soap Company