Guest guest Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 Hi Sherry, my suggestion would be. Forget the book, now that you have read it, forget all books, all suggestions and sit yourself alone. Ask yourself why do you want to be in a loving commited relationship?. Don´t think very much just ask the question and wait, be present, and then ask yourself why don´t you walk to what you really know you want?. Again, don´t think very much, just try to be present, and be honest to yourself. Nobody knows more from you than yourself. Be really honest to yourself. May be difficult but try it. You are your own authority. Serafín. Aprillove13 escribió: I know that my goal is to be in a loving committed relationship. I also know that I should be working toward the value via the goal. I'm having a difficult time determining how to figure out underlying values. I have the book and I know that a value should be a verb but the book gave very few examples of what real values look like? Are they like having more patience? helping others? If so, How to I translate all of this into making a value for relationships? Thanks, Sherry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 -- In ACT_for_the_Public, " C. " wrote: > > Think verbs and adverbs > Relating in a loving way > Making and keeping commitments > Supporting others for who they really are Warning to this list - this is a VERY long post & a bit narrow in its focus. I apologize for not cutting it shorter, but I want to get it out there. Feel free to skip it and punch Delete! To me, you can't really define a value without specifying the context for that value--the nature of the ongoing action. Because of this, I like Hank Robb's definition of values as " importanting " more than I do the presentation in the ACT workbook on values. I think that would be easier for folks to understand. Context for a value is like the " domains " described in the workbook, e.g. family, friends, work, etc.--but it's even more specific than that. Another way to say this is that we don't choose domains--they choose us. If you're a parent, values crop up around being a good parent, whatever that means to you. But the context of " parent " is required first. Some values may propagate to other situations or may be explicitly larger in scope, e.g. if you believe in exercising compassion towards all people as a value (as a committed Buddhist might), then that value will pop up all over the place. But even so there is a context that can't be left out for the value to make any sense. The workbook tries to help us identify domains where we may have values--as if we'd forgotten that we are parents / children / employees / spiritual seekers / etc. Maybe sometimes this is helpful; I'm sure it's there in the workbook for good reasons outside of my own personal experience. But I think the _real_ difficulty with identifying values & related goals & actions has nothing to do with " forgetting " our roles - we " know " these all too well. It has to do instead with being willing to enter such roles fully rather than run away from them - even for situations where everything seems muddy, outcomes are uncertain, risks seem high, and there are no default allegiances to fall back on as a matter of course. Career is one area where this happens a lot; also any sort of completely voluntary relationship (friend, partner) where there is a choice as opposed to a blood bond. Though even blood bonds can present the same issue. Examples: someone in a troubled marriage who wonders whether he or she should stay or leave; someone whose preferred career is financially and professionally difficult and who is wondering whether to persevere. Seemingly big risks, no clear answers, no " right " way to proceed. Grist for the mind and its " reasons " to avoid or take self-defeating actions. Say you're a substance abuser with an estranged child with whom you want to re-engage, as part of your value of being a caring parent. What is the gerund or adverb that really gives you a value here? Maybe in the heat of choosing, a gerund like " caring " or an adverb like " compassionately " is helpful for knowing the direction - for getting clear of the mind's clutter. Okay. But even engaging with that value in the first place - identifying it & bringing it forth - that calls for more than adverbs & gerunds. And I think that's what people are looking for when they ask about values and how to do them. The book chapter on values by ACT researchers Amy Murrell and uses the example of someone who is ambivalent about a troubled marriage and unsure what to do. The authors propose exercises to imagine making several different sorts of choices: choosing to leave, and seeing what that feels like; choosing to stay, ditto; choosing anything at all to get the pain over with quickly; and choosing not to choose just yet, but wait a while despite the uncertainty, perhaps to see if anything else comes up. The implication is that there will be no perfect choice, that is, no choice that can foresee and control all consequences; yet a choice eventually will have to be made and lived with fully. Thinking about this, maybe there is a useful perspective to become aware of when contemplating values and asking, " What do I do? What do I do with my life - what do I do with this difficult situation? " And that is to understand that the circumstances of our life are always arbitrary: wherever we are, we have gotten here largely by the accidents of our birth and subsequent events, all out of our control, all existing in a " past " that is only verbal. But it's our nature as verbal beings to believe that these circumstances are _not_ arbitrary--in other words, to believe that they have meaning. To put it another way, we come to identify with our circumstances. This gives us two challenges. The first is to free ourselves by recognizing the arbitrary quality of life for what it is. The second is to free ourselves even further by accepting these same circumstances as valid in spite of their arbitrary nature, so that we may participate in our own lives fully--and to accept also that our choices will have consequences that in some ways may be equally arbitrary. To take an example, the Dalai Lama was born into difficult circumstances that were totally arbitrary, but nonetheless found him responsible for the people of Tibet. He has therefore made choices in line with these circumstances. We can imagine him choosing at a young age to opt out of his heritage and take up some other line of work; but even that decision would have been made in this same arbitrary context, rooted in the soil of Tibet. Or to take me as another example, I have been struggling in various ways with my writing career for over 25 years: what to write and what not to write; how to get paid for it; whether to try and find some more lucrative form of work. I have a big barrier in the form of a rigid conceptualized self, but even without the barrier it would be an unclear, unpredictable situation. Rather than wish for a perfect solution, I can accept that these are the arbitrary circumstances I have been gifted with. I can accept the proposition as nourishing even if the outcome is uncertain. Here's another way to think of it: just as it is most useful to actively accept our personal history because it cannot be changed (for example we cannot live a different childhood), so too should we accept the unclear situations we find ourselves in--because these cannot be " changed " in the sense of gotten rid of, either. These unclear situations are merely the most immediate manifestation of our personal history. There are so many pitfalls our mind sets for us when thinking about values! For example, we may betray ourselves by going along with a socially defined hierarchy of values, rather than accepting our circumstances, gifts and predilections on their own merits. We may believe that the work of a teacher or therapist or doctor is nobler than the work of a clerk standing behind a cash register in at a supermarket; nobler than our own work, perhaps; and thus we may end up berating ourselves for not being as " good " as a teacher or therapist or doctor ourselves. Think of the Buddhist concept of " emptiness " : emptiness says that everyone and everything is interdependent, created through innumerable co-factors of causation; this being the case, it is nonsensical to imagine a scale of moral values by which " teacher " or doctor " or " therapist " rank higher than " writer " or " supermarket clerk " or even " Hollywood actor. " Interdependence means that the teacher or therapist might not even _exist_ were it not for the writer, the supermarket clerk, the actor. Of course society asks us to create such moral scales all the time-- just one of the many verbal illusions societies foster to perpetuate themselves. (Note this doesn't mean it's wrong to feel reverence or gratitude for those in the helping professions, or in other professions for that matter. In fact such reverence can be extended to everyone.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 > > > > Think verbs and adverbs > > Relating in a loving way > > Making and keeping commitments > > Supporting others for who they really are > > Warning to this list - this is a VERY long post & a bit narrow in its > focus. I apologize for not cutting it shorter, but I want to get it > out there. Feel free to skip it and punch Delete! > > To me, you can't really define a value without specifying the context > for that value--the nature of the ongoing action. > > Because of this, I like Hank Robb's definition of values as > " importanting " more than I do the presentation in the ACT workbook on > values. I think that would be easier for folks to understand. > > Context for a value is like the " domains " described in the workbook, > e.g. family, friends, work, etc.--but it's even more specific than > that. Another way to say this is that we don't choose domains--they > choose us. > > If you're a parent, values crop up around being a good parent, > whatever that means to you. But the context of " parent " is required > first. > > Some values may propagate to other situations or may be explicitly > larger in scope, e.g. if you believe in exercising compassion towards > all people as a value (as a committed Buddhist might), then that > value will pop up all over the place. But even so there is a context > that can't be left out for the value to make any sense. > > The workbook tries to help us identify domains where we may have > values--as if we'd forgotten that we are parents / children / > employees / spiritual seekers / etc. Maybe sometimes this is helpful; > I'm sure it's there in the workbook for good reasons outside of my > own personal experience. > > But I think the _real_ difficulty with identifying values & related > goals & actions has nothing to do with " forgetting " our roles - we > " know " these all too well. > > It has to do instead with being willing to enter such roles fully > rather than run away from them - even for situations where everything > seems muddy, outcomes are uncertain, risks seem high, and there are > no default allegiances to fall back on as a matter of course. Career > is one area where this happens a lot; also any sort of completely > voluntary relationship (friend, partner) where there is a choice as > opposed to a blood bond. Though even blood bonds can present the same > issue. > > Examples: someone in a troubled marriage who wonders whether he or > she should stay or leave; someone whose preferred career is > financially and professionally difficult and who is wondering whether > to persevere. Seemingly big risks, no clear answers, no " right " way > to proceed. Grist for the mind and its " reasons " to avoid or take > self-defeating actions. > > Say you're a substance abuser with an estranged child with whom you > want to re-engage, as part of your value of being a caring parent. > What is the gerund or adverb that really gives you a value here? > Maybe in the heat of choosing, a gerund like " caring " or an adverb > like " compassionately " is helpful for knowing the direction - for > getting clear of the mind's clutter. Okay. > > But even engaging with that value in the first place - identifying it > & bringing it forth - that calls for more than adverbs & gerunds. And > I think that's what people are looking for when they ask about values > and how to do them. > > The book chapter on values by ACT researchers Amy Murrell and > uses the example of someone who is ambivalent about a troubled > marriage and unsure what to do. The authors propose exercises to > imagine making several different sorts of choices: choosing to leave, > and seeing what that feels like; choosing to stay, ditto; choosing > anything at all to get the pain over with quickly; and choosing not > to choose just yet, but wait a while despite the uncertainty, perhaps > to see if anything else comes up. > > The implication is that there will be no perfect choice, that is, no > choice that can foresee and control all consequences; yet a choice > eventually will have to be made and lived with fully. > > Thinking about this, maybe there is a useful perspective to become > aware of when contemplating values and asking, " What do I do? What do > I do with my life - what do I do with this difficult situation? " > > And that is to understand that the circumstances of our life are > always arbitrary: wherever we are, we have gotten here largely by the > accidents of our birth and subsequent events, all out of our control, > all existing in a " past " that is only verbal. > > But it's our nature as verbal beings to believe that these > circumstances are _not_ arbitrary--in other words, to believe that > they have meaning. To put it another way, we come to identify with > our circumstances. > > This gives us two challenges. The first is to free ourselves by > recognizing the arbitrary quality of life for what it is. The second > is to free ourselves even further by accepting these same > circumstances as valid in spite of their arbitrary nature, so that we > may participate in our own lives fully--and to accept also that our > choices will have consequences that in some ways may be equally > arbitrary. > > To take an example, the Dalai Lama was born into difficult > circumstances that were totally arbitrary, but nonetheless found him > responsible for the people of Tibet. He has therefore made choices in > line with these circumstances. We can imagine him choosing at a young > age to opt out of his heritage and take up some other line of work; > but even that decision would have been made in this same arbitrary > context, rooted in the soil of Tibet. > > Or to take me as another example, I have been struggling in various > ways with my writing career for over 25 years: what to write and what > not to write; how to get paid for it; whether to try and find some > more lucrative form of work. I have a big barrier in the form of a > rigid conceptualized self, but even without the barrier it would be > an unclear, unpredictable situation. Rather than wish for a perfect > solution, I can accept that these are the arbitrary circumstances I > have been gifted with. I can accept the proposition as nourishing > even if the outcome is uncertain. > > Here's another way to think of it: just as it is most useful to > actively accept our personal history because it cannot be changed > (for example we cannot live a different childhood), so too should we > accept the unclear situations we find ourselves in--because these > cannot be " changed " in the sense of gotten rid of, either. These > unclear situations are merely the most immediate manifestation of our > personal history. > > There are so many pitfalls our mind sets for us when thinking about > values! For example, we may betray ourselves by going along with a > socially defined hierarchy of values, rather than accepting our > circumstances, gifts and predilections on their own merits. We may > believe that the work of a teacher or therapist or doctor is nobler > than the work of a clerk standing behind a cash register in at a > supermarket; nobler than our own work, perhaps; and thus we may end > up berating ourselves for not being as " good " as a teacher or > therapist or doctor ourselves. > > Think of the Buddhist concept of " emptiness " : emptiness says that > everyone and everything is interdependent, created through > innumerable co-factors of causation; this being the case, it is > nonsensical to imagine a scale of moral values by which " teacher " or > doctor " or " therapist " rank higher than " writer " or " supermarket > clerk " or even " Hollywood actor. " Interdependence means that the > teacher or therapist might not even _exist_ were it not for the > writer, the supermarket clerk, the actor. > > Of course society asks us to create such moral scales all the time-- > just one of the many verbal illusions societies foster to perpetuate > themselves. (Note this doesn't mean it's wrong to feel reverence or > gratitude for those in the helping professions, or in other > professions for that matter. In fact such reverence can be extended > to everyone.) > Ok, the above gets at a problem I run into with choosing values. On the surface, no problemo: " serving others " has yielded almost a life time of voluntary and professional activities which address this value. I really grade myself quite high for this. am satisfied. And there are other values which are high and which I pursue in one form or another with various degrees of " success " (not that that is the point, I understand). However, here's a problem: My chief " importantcy " , my real " cat who comes back " is something like: to have others like and respect me. AND I MEAN ALL OTHERS. This gets a little dicey as a value. this is both a value and a hindrance. Point is if I were to pursue this chief theme in my daily, minute to minute thought/wish/fear, what kind of value is that? And how do you fashion a life around that value. I actually have a bit of an answer here: I am an entertainer, as well as a professional helper. And the former is far more important to me than the latter. So... question. Do I give in and pursue the entertaining with commitment (I currently hold back and only go for and play safe gigs) and/or tell myself to drop the codependent crap, grow up, and go after the value that serves others semi selflessly and with the most impact. Flaunting, showing off, calling attention to myself and getting others to like and admire me is indeed my life's calling and I have to " sit on it " every minute I work with or am around people. It seems " selfish " and 'immature " . But it's there and won't go away. And it can cause great pain, in the form of performance anxiety (stage fright and social anxiety)... and there's a world of acceptance I have to exercise and work on around that. It looks and acts just like a value... even though it causes some damage periodically in my marriage and other areas. Perhaps another way to ask this question is: can a value be a neurosis? i experience this as a very sticky question. Any thoughts? Thanks, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 I thought this was a rather lucid bit. I do see why you had to write so long to get the message across though. There was quite a bit there to digest. I did have an experience that illuminated some of the personal relevance of the "job hierarchy" for me that I thought I would share.At one point, I was so desperate for a job that I simply had to beg a friend to hire me in a low-wage, no benefits job. After a while he sat me down to counsel me about my attitude towards the job. It was very clear that I didn't "respect" the job, which other people were taking as disrespect towards them. As in most situations, some people there were conscientious, hard-working employees, and others were milking the job. I didn't really disrespect those who worked hard at their jobs, even if (in my boss' words) "this was the best job they could get." After a long conversation and some introspection, I realized that I didn't respect myself in the job. There was something inside of me that recognized that working that job was "aiming low" for myself. What I mean by that is that there are certain talents that I value that weren't being used by that career. I made the decision to pursue a different career path. One of the lessons that I learned from this is to expand the idea of "flipping over what make me unhappy" from simply looking at what makes me unhappy in my own life to what makes me "look down on" someone else. There is still a lesson in there on what I value. By examining these feelings, it also helps me to convey respect to others, since in many cases I realize that my feelings are just my mind saying, "I want to do something else." There are so many pitfalls our mind sets for us when thinking about values! For example, we may betray ourselves by going along with a socially defined hierarchy of values, rather than accepting our circumstances, gifts and predilections on their own merits. We may believe that the work of a teacher or therapist or doctor is nobler than the work of a clerk standing behind a cash register in at a supermarket; nobler than our own work, perhaps; and thus we may end up berating ourselves for not being as "good" as a teacher or therapist or doctor ourselves. Think of the Buddhist concept of "emptiness": emptiness says that everyone and everything is interdependent, created through innumerable co-factors of causation; this being the case, it is nonsensical to imagine a scale of moral values by which "teacher" or doctor" or "therapist" rank higher than "writer" or "supermarket clerk" or even "Hollywood actor." Interdependence means that the teacher or therapist might not even _exist_ were it not for the writer, the supermarket clerk, the actor. Of course society asks us to create such moral scales all the time-- just one of the many verbal illusions societies foster to perpetuate themselves. (Note this doesn't mean it's wrong to feel reverence or gratitude for those in the helping professions, or in other professions for that matter. In fact such reverence can be extended to everyone.) __._,_. Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 -- In ACT_for_the_Public, " C. " wrote: > Think verbs and adverbs Relating in a loving way Making and keeping > commitments Supporting others for who they really are > Much of what’s been said on choosing values gets at a problem I run into with choosing values. On the surface, no problemo: " serving others " has yielded almost a life time of voluntary and professional activities which address this value. I really grade myself quite high for this. am satisfied. And there are other values which are high and which I pursue in one form or another with various degrees of " success " (not that that is the point, I understand). However, here's a problem: My chief " importantcy " , my real " cat who comes back " is something like: to have others like and respect me. AND I MEAN ALL OTHERS. And I’m not talking about your garden variety, “well, everybody wants to be liked”.this goes way beyond that and gets a little dicey as a value. this is both a value and a hindrance. Point is if I were to pursue this chief theme in my daily, minute to minute thought/wish/fear, what kind of value is that? And how do you fashion a life around that value. I already try one answer: I am an entertainer, as well as a professional helper. And the former is far more important to me than the latter. So... question. Do I give in and pursue the entertaining with commitment (I currently hold back and only go for and play safe gigs) and/or tell myself to drop the codependent crap, grow up, and go after the value that serves others semi selflessly and with the most impact. Flaunting, showing off, calling attention to myself and getting others to like and admire me is indeed my life's calling and I have to " sit on it " every minute I work with or am around people. It seems " selfish " and 'immature " . But it's there and won't go away. And it can cause great pain, in the form of performance anxiety (stage fright and social anxiety)... and there's a world of acceptance I have to exercise and work on around that. It looks and acts just like a value... even though it causes some damage periodically in my marriage and other areas. Perhaps another way to ask this question is: can a value be a neurosis? To me, that’s a hard question. Any thoughts? Thanks, Chris .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 > Do I give in and pursue the entertaining with commitment > (I currently hold back and only go for and play safe gigs) > and/or tell myself to drop the codependent crap, grow up, > and go after the value that serves others semi-selflessly > and with the most impact. Your mind is telling you that there's a binary opposition here--that it's either entertain or serve others, but not both. You may say " it feels that way, " but I would wager that these " feelings " have a lot of tightly held thoughts associated with them. Your mind is also telling you that on each side of this binary equation, everything is glued together--in particular, that entertaining comes with neurosis and codependency and can't be separated from those things. I know how this works, because my mind has presented me with the same sort of thoughts about my own " cat that comes back " (great phrase), which happens to be personally meaningful writing--fiction, essays, etc. Glued in with the actual experience of writing are lots & lots of thoughts: I " lack talent, " I'll " always fail, " and best of all, I want to write for the " wrong reasons " --out of a childhood desire to identify with my mother, who was a painter; or out of a desire to have people like me for my writing. (Sound familiar?) My mind has tried to tell me that since such " reasons " are " invalid, " I should give up--I should quit writing for myself altogether. (And by the way, writing " for myself " is also " bad, " because it's " selfish. " ) I still have all of these thoughts, but I've stopped caring whether they are " true. " The fact is, if I try to sort out this barrel of fish, I'll never do anything in my life. Another fact is this: it's what we do that defines us, not what we think. And the doing is not the same as the thoughts about the doing. You say that wanting people to like you is a value. We can't control other people, and something out of our control by definition can't be a value. But I don't think that's what's going on with you, in spite of what your mind says. I say, go ahead and entertain, and find out what happens in the doing of it. Don't buy that this has to mean rejection of service, either. Think in terms of " and " rather than " either/or. " Life is full of contradiction and confusion. Many great entertainers have had stage fright; many of them have wanted to be adored. Should they never have gotten on stage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Hi Chris An interesting thread, and I was especially interested in your key “importancy” of having others like and respect you. My take on this is that it is not possible to have a bona fide value that requires specific action from other people. Values, it seems to me, are the directions in which we wish to move ourselves in pursuit of a rich and fulfilling life. I see that you are an entertainer; inevitably, some people will have positive responses to your entertainment, but others won’t appreciate it. If you seek for ALL others to like/respect you, you are setting yourself up for failure. If, however, you embrace a value such as “to perform my material to the very best of my ability”, then you are creating a value whose operationalisation is entirely in your hands. And as you grow, there will always be scope for improvement. And some people will like/respect you as a result of your endeavours. But not all. That is their problem, not yours, for if you know that you have performed in accordance with that value (to the very best of your ability) then the satisfaction is yours. And if some people like it and respect you for it, bonus! Regards Kinna This e-mail is personal. It is not authorised by, nor sent on behalf of the Department of Health or the Government of South Australia. From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of famtherapisty Sent: Wednesday, 14 November 2007 12:37 AM To: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Re: Choosing Values Ok, the above gets at a problem I run into with choosing values. On the surface, no problemo: " serving others " has yielded almost a life time of voluntary and professional activities which address this value. I really grade myself quite high for this. am satisfied. And there are other values which are high and which I pursue in one form or another with various degrees of " success " (not that that is the point, I understand). However, here's a problem: My chief " importantcy " , my real " cat who comes back " is something like: to have others like and respect me. AND I MEAN ALL OTHERS. This gets a little dicey as a value. this is both a value and a hindrance. Point is if I were to pursue this chief theme in my daily, minute to minute thought/wish/fear, what kind of value is that? And how do you fashion a life around that value. I actually have a bit of an answer here: I am an entertainer, as well as a professional helper. And the former is far more important to me than the latter. So... question. Do I give in and pursue the entertaining with commitment (I currently hold back and only go for and play safe gigs) and/or tell myself to drop the codependent crap, grow up, and go after the value that serves others semi selflessly and with the most impact. Flaunting, showing off, calling attention to myself and getting others to like and admire me is indeed my life's calling and I have to " sit on it " every minute I work with or am around people. It seems " selfish " and 'immature " . But it's there and won't go away. And it can cause great pain, in the form of performance anxiety (stage fright and social anxiety)... and there's a world of acceptance I have to exercise and work on around that. It looks and acts just like a value... even though it causes some damage periodically in my marriage and other areas. Perhaps another way to ask this question is: can a value be a neurosis? i experience this as a very sticky question. Any thoughts? Thanks, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 /-To support 's response about values not being connected with requiring a specific action from another person - I'd like to add something I've learned through "Non Violent Communication" (NVC) where they distinguish "strategies" from "needs" (which is similar to ACT's term of "values"):"PLATO": If the need/value is connected to a specific Person, Location, Action, Time, or Object, then it's a strategy to get a need/value met.As stated, we act from our commitment to certain values, and then there will be feelings and thoughts that arise that we get to identify as "clean" feelings/thoughts (like, fear, before going on stage, but doing it anyway) or the more complex feelings/thoughts that usually take more attention/focus/discipline to defuse from (what I believe is what is calling neurosis, calls "the mind-train" and I call "the Goon Squad").So, for instance, Chris' "calling" or value sounds to me something akin to "creative, authentic self-expression" - then the Goon-Squad/mind-train comes in and says "selfish" "flaunting" etc.NVC offers an additional way to discern/ defuse, which again (I believe) is compatible with ACT:If I can't quite let go of the rope (usually due to the strength of the voices, or my fatigue level), I will pause briefly to "explore the rope" - that is, in NVC terms: Ask myself what "need" is attempting to get met by these judgmental voices - for example, with - perhaps emotional safety/ protection, harmony (not upsetting others) - but the needs / values not met, are Chris' creative, authentic-self-expression. Then, once that's noted, it's much easier to defuse - with acceptance - and move forward towards one's originally expressed commitment towards value-focused action. Hope this is helpful. [ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: Choosing Values Ok, the above gets at a problem I run into with choosing values. On the surface, no problemo: "serving others" has yielded almost a life time of voluntary and professional activities which address this value. I really grade myself quite high for this. am satisfied. And there are other values which are high and which I pursue in one form or another with various degrees of "success" (not that that is the point, I understand). However, here's a problem: My chief "importantcy" , my real "cat who comes back" is something like: to have others like and respect me. AND I MEAN ALL OTHERS. This gets a little dicey as a value. this is both a value and a hindrance. Point is if I were to pursue this chief theme in my daily, minute to minute thought/wish/ fear, what kind of value is that? And how do you fashion a life around that value. I actually have a bit of an answer here: I am an entertainer, as well as a professional helper. And the former is far more important to me than the latter. So... question. Do I give in and pursue the entertaining with commitment (I currently hold back and only go for and play safe gigs) and/or tell myself to drop the codependent crap, grow up, and go after the value that serves others semi selflessly and with the most impact. Flaunting, showing off, calling attention to myself and getting others to like and admire me is indeed my life's calling and I have to "sit on it" every minute I work with or am around people. It seems "selfish" and 'immature". But it's there and won't go away. And it can cause great pain, in the form of performance anxiety (stage fright and social anxiety)... and there's a world of acceptance I have to exercise and work on around that. It looks and acts just like a value... even though it causes some damage periodically in my marriage and other areas. Perhaps another way to ask this question is: can a value be a neurosis? i experience this as a very sticky question. Any thoughts? Thanks, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2007 Report Share Posted November 13, 2007 Building on the responses from & : a value is something you want to do; it's not something you want to get. Once you recognise you're trying to get something from others - admiration, love, respect, care, loyalty, attention etc - you can often move from there to your values by asking yourself, 'If I did get X,Y,Z - and if I had it in unlimited quantities - then what would I do differently? How would I behave differently? How would I interact differently with others?' The story our minds tend to tell us is 'I have to get X,Y,Z before I can be the person I want to be and do the things I want to do.' The more empowering alternative is: 'Start doing the things you want to do, and being the person you want to be RIGHT NOW (because you have a lot of control over what you do); and accept that you may or may not ever get X,Y,Z (because you have little or no control over what you get).' There's a lovely paradox here - the more you let go of trying to get positive responses from others, and instead connect with being the person you want to be and acting on your own core values, then it's more likely that the quality of your relationships will improve, and the more likely you are to get the positive responses you would like. (And if you find that's not the case in a particular relationship, then you may wish to think about finding a new one, in which you can be free to be 'true to yourself' rather than trying to please or impress another.) All the best, Cheers, Russ Dr PO Box 5079, Alphington, Vic 3078 Tel: 0425 782 055 www.actmindfully.com.au From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of StrasburgerSent: Wednesday, 14 November 2007 11:06 AMTo: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Re: Re: Choosing Values /-To support 's response about values not being connected with requiring a specific action from another person - I'd like to add something I've learned through "Non Violent Communication" (NVC) where they distinguish "strategies" from "needs" (which is similar to ACT's term of "values"):"PLATO": If the need/value is connected to a specific Person, Location, Action, Time, or Object, then it's a strategy to get a need/value met.As stated, we act from our commitment to certain values, and then there will be feelings and thoughts that arise that we get to identify as "clean" feelings/thoughts (like, fear, before going on stage, but doing it anyway) or the more complex feelings/thoughts that usually take more attention/focus/discipline to defuse from (what I believe is what is calling neurosis, calls "the mind-train" and I call "the Goon Squad").So, for instance, Chris' "calling" or value sounds to me something akin to "creative, authentic self-expression" - then the Goon-Squad/mind-train comes in and says "selfish" "flaunting" etc.NVC offers an additional way to discern/ defuse, which again (I believe) is compatible with ACT:If I can't quite let go of the rope (usually due to the strength of the voices, or my fatigue level), I will pause briefly to "explore the rope" - that is, in NVC terms: Ask myself what "need" is attempting to get met by these judgmental voices - for example, with - perhaps emotional safety/ protection, harmony (not upsetting others) - but the needs / values not met, are Chris' creative, authentic-self-expression. Then, once that's noted, it's much easier to defuse - with acceptance - and move forward towards one's originally expressed commitment towards value-focused action. Hope this is helpful. [ACT_for_the_ Public] Re: Choosing Values Ok, the above gets at a problem I run into with choosing values. On the surface, no problemo: "serving others" has yielded almost a life time of voluntary and professional activities which address this value. I really grade myself quite high for this. am satisfied. And there are other values which are high and which I pursue in one form or another with various degrees of "success" (not that that is the point, I understand). However, here's a problem:My chief "importantcy" , my real "cat who comes back" is something like: to have others like and respect me. AND I MEAN ALL OTHERS. This gets a little dicey as a value. this is both a value and a hindrance. Point is if I were to pursue this chief theme in my daily, minute to minute thought/wish/ fear, what kind of value is that? And how do you fashion a life around that value.I actually have a bit of an answer here: I am an entertainer, as well as a professional helper. And the former is far more important to me than the latter. So... question. Do I give in and pursue the entertaining with commitment (I currently hold back and only go for and play safe gigs) and/or tell myself to drop the codependent crap, grow up, and go after the value that serves others semi selflessly and with the most impact. Flaunting, showing off, calling attention to myself and getting others to like and admire me is indeed my life's calling and I have to "sit on it" every minute I work with or am around people. It seems "selfish" and 'immature". But it's there and won't go away. And it can cause great pain, in the form of performance anxiety (stage fright and social anxiety)... and there's a world of acceptance I have to exercise and work on around that. It looks and acts just like a value... even though it causes some damage periodically in my marriage and other areas. Perhaps another way to ask this question is: can a value be a neurosis? i experience this as a very sticky question. Any thoughts? Thanks, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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