Guest guest Posted May 16, 2003 Report Share Posted May 16, 2003 > Do you think I could use 3 % jojoba oil , the 3% Botanical Complex LSC, and > 5 % Grape seed oil in place of the other 4 Ingredients you listed? I do > prefer whole oils to esters, etc. Go for it Sherry. Nothing is cut in stone with formulas. Worst case scenario is you may have to adjust your emulsifiers a little. You won't know unless you try it though. Pat. Peace, Joy, Serenity House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc. pat@... http://www.houseofscents.com/ ----- Original Message ----- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 In a message dated 5/16/03 8:08:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sherryscreations2@... writes: > Your oil base calls for: > > Part B - Oil Phase > Ceteareth 20 0.5% > Glyceryl Stearate 0.5% > Botanical Complex LSC 3% > Jojoba Oil 3% > EmEster 2% > Cetyl Esters 2% > Cetyl Alcohol 1% > > Do you think I could use 3 % jojoba oil , the 3% Botanical Complex LSC, and > > 5 % Grape seed oil in place of the other 4 Ingredients you listed? I do > prefer whole oils to esters, etc. > > Hi Sherry, Sure you can make the substitution, but the lotion will be altogether different. That's one thing that makes formulating so much fun...every variable is significant and changing one will make a difference. To me, formulating is much like painting a picture or writing music.....each piece is important and even the slightest variation will effect the final outcome. The possibilities are endless The esters and also dimethicone can provide a nice light feel to a summer lotion, but you certainly don't have to use them. For your substitution, the overall required HLB will be lower--around 6.45 and the value of the emulsifiers used is about 9.75, but that ought to work fine. My guess is with the grape seed substituted for the cetyl esters and the cetyl alcohol, you will have a lotion that is too thin. I would recommend using at least a percentage or two of a fatty alcohol to give the lotion some body. Are you opposed to using a fatty alcohol? You could use a butter, such as shea, for a percentage or two of the formula. Or you could use a percentage or two of one of the gums or starches to thicken the lotion--something like UltraMaize. But again, the lotion will be altogether different. I encourage experimentation and really enjoy hearing from clients that have tweaked my formulas into their own creations! Try some things and let us know how it goes! Angie The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 In a message dated 5/17/03 5:08:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, maurice@... writes: > The resulting formula should thinner than the formula originally presented > by Angie. > Hi Maurice It definitely will and I'm thinking Sherry may not be pleased with the results. As I mentioned earlier, I would recommend using something to provide 'body' to the lotion, but then the HLB requirements will change again. Angie The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 >Go for it Sherry. Nothing is cut in stone with formulas. Worst case scenario >is you may have to adjust your emulsifiers a little. You won't know unless >you try it though. As you know, replacing the EmEster (C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate) = 2% Cetyl Esters = 2% Cetyl Alcohol = 1% with Grape Seed Oil = 5% will lower the required HLB of your oil phase because the required HLB of EmEster (C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate) is 13 the required HLB of Cetyl Esters is 10 the required HLB of Cetyl Alcohol is 15.5 and the required HLB of Grape (Vitis Vinifera) Seed Oil is only 7. If I were to replace the EmEster, Cetyl Esters and Cetyl Alcohol with Grape Seed Oil, I would change the emulsifier blend so that the Oil Phase looked like: Glyceryl Stearate = 0.7% Ceteareth-20 = 0.3% Botanical Complex LSC = 3% Jojoba Oil = 3% Grape (Vitis Vinifera) Seed Oil = 5% The resulting formula should thinner than the formula originally presented by Angie. Maurice -------------------------------------------------------- Maurice O. Hevey Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com ------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 Please, what the heck is HLB?? Karla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 Karla wrote: > Please, what the heck is HLB?? Karla, I can see that you have not been to our files section. I suggest you take a look there and you will find a folder titled HLB. In it are three files. After you read those, if you still need more information let us know and we will direct you to where you can find it. Pat. Peace, Joy, Serenity House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc. pat@... http://www.houseofscents.com/ ----- Original Message ----- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 Actually Pat I have been there..But I have not read EVERY single file..Would have been more polite to nicely point me to the files on this one. Thanks Karla ----- Original Message ----- Karla, I can see that you have not been to our files section. I suggest you take a look there and you will find a folder titled HLB. In it are three files. After you read those, if you still need more information let us know and we will direct you to where you can find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 Ok, read the files on it, its all greek to me so I will just stay out of this thread..lol Karla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 >Karla, I can see that you have not been to our files section. I suggest you >take a look there and you will find a folder titled HLB. In it are three >files. And don't forget to join Cosmeticinfo2 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosmeticinfo2/ then go into the HLB_Info folder in the files area http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosmeticinfo2/files/HLB_Info/ in that folder, you'll find two files, HLB_Classic.doc and HLB_Classic.pdf. These files are identical except in format and file size. Maurice -------------------------------------------------------- Maurice O. Hevey Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com ------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2003 Report Share Posted May 17, 2003 > Actually Pat I have been there..But I have not read EVERY single file..Would have been more polite to nicely point me to the files on this one. Karla, one of the functions of the list is to help people to help themselves. Referring you to the files was imo polite and the proper thing to do. Suggesting that I be more polite is to infer that my behavior was the opposite. We spent a lot of time putting the files together so that people could use them and not have to ask the simplest of questions that have been discussed many times in the past. HLB is not a simple subject. Neither is it one that can be explained to someone who knows nothing about it in one email. I was very serious when I said that when you finished reading the three files that we would send you to where you could get more information. We have a bunch more information on that subject in the files on our sister list. It would benefit you to learn it. Pat. Peace, Joy, Serenity House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc. pat@... http://www.houseofscents.com/ > ----- Original Message ----- > Karla, I can see that you have not been to our files section. I suggest you > take a look there and you will find a folder titled HLB. In it are three > files. After you read those, if you still need more information let us know > and we will direct you to where you can find it. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2003 Report Share Posted May 18, 2003 I have a question.....what does HLB stand for? Thanks ~Fawn~ --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/13/2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2003 Report Share Posted May 18, 2003 >what does HLB stand for? HLB stands for Hydrophile-Lipophile Balance. In 1949, C. (Bill) developed the Hydrophile-Lipophile Balance System or HLB System when he was a chemist at the Atlas Powder Company, which eventually became ICI Surfactants. Lab Rat -------------------------------------------------------- Maurice O. Hevey Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com ------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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