Getting Help

[Guest guest]

I'm reaching out for help again. I have in my possession three books

currently. They are: Get Out of Your Mind..., The Happiness Trap and

Zen Master... I have at least skimmed through all of them, more than

once, and even have done some or more of the exercises too. All things

considered, I have abandoned using them all. Occasionally in my daily

life, I'll do a zazen sitting; use labeling or cubby-holing. I can

even just let private events come and go informally, and on the go.

However, I do not do any of these things or other suggested ACT

strategies consistently. I have several distressing problem areas and

haven't seriously begun to do anything about them currently. The

self-help books don't really work well for me and I have tried them. I

have read, talked about, seen ACT therapists and know a great deal

about THIS process called ACT. I feel that words, or books are done; I

need some concrete suggestions that I can DO, even if it is one

exercise at a time, one week at a time or whatever. I want to do

SOMETHING different about my current life situation and I just don't

really know where to start. Those of you that have been members long

enough, may be familiar with other posts I've made that are similar to

this one. I am VERY familiar with this type of post.

[Guest guest]

At the bottom of your post you say that you want " to do SOMETHING

different about my current life situation. "

OK, do something different this week - anything. Make a commitment to

do SOMETHING different.

Here's a few. Ride a bike. Call an old friend. Paint a picture. Take a

walk. Smell a flower. Eat a raisin very slowly. Read a book. Take a

bath. Take a drive in the country.

But do it mindfully, living moment to moment.

Peace.

>

> I'm reaching out for help again. I have in my possession three books

> currently. They are: Get Out of Your Mind..., The Happiness Trap and

> Zen Master... I have at least skimmed through all of them, more than

> once, and even have done some or more of the exercises too. All things

> considered, I have abandoned using them all. Occasionally in my daily

> life, I'll do a zazen sitting; use labeling or cubby-holing. I can

> even just let private events come and go informally, and on the go.

> However, I do not do any of these things or other suggested ACT

> strategies consistently. I have several distressing problem areas and

> haven't seriously begun to do anything about them currently. The

> self-help books don't really work well for me and I have tried them. I

> have read, talked about, seen ACT therapists and know a great deal

> about THIS process called ACT. I feel that words, or books are done; I

> need some concrete suggestions that I can DO, even if it is one

> exercise at a time, one week at a time or whatever. I want to do

> SOMETHING different about my current life situation and I just don't

> really know where to start. Those of you that have been members long

> enough, may be familiar with other posts I've made that are similar to

> this one. I am VERY familiar with this type of post.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Something that helps me when I am really stuck is doing something

for someone else, to get out of myself. I am struggling with some

anxiety/depression and I have also been reading a book called " A

Thousand Splendid Suns " , which is a fictional story based on true

events of Afghanistan women and the horrors they have endured under

the Taliban and decades of war. Last night I did an internet search

and found a website that supports education for Afghan girls and

women, so I made a small donation, read about it, and forwarded it

to friends. This was a very small action which supported my

values. Another suggestion is to go to an animal shelter and

volunteer, or maybe go read to a senior citizen at a nursing home.

I hope this has been helpful for you, I'm not sure if I fully

understood your question as I am new to ACT.

> >

> > I'm reaching out for help again. I have in my possession three

books

> > currently. They are: Get Out of Your Mind..., The Happiness Trap

and

> > Zen Master... I have at least skimmed through all of them, more

than

> > once, and even have done some or more of the exercises too. All

things

> > considered, I have abandoned using them all. Occasionally in my

daily

> > life, I'll do a zazen sitting; use labeling or cubby-holing. I

can

> > even just let private events come and go informally, and on the

go.

> > However, I do not do any of these things or other suggested ACT

> > strategies consistently. I have several distressing problem

areas and

> > haven't seriously begun to do anything about them currently. The

> > self-help books don't really work well for me and I have tried

them. I

> > have read, talked about, seen ACT therapists and know a great

deal

> > about THIS process called ACT. I feel that words, or books are

done; I

> > need some concrete suggestions that I can DO, even if it is one

> > exercise at a time, one week at a time or whatever. I want to do

> > SOMETHING different about my current life situation and I just

don't

> > really know where to start. Those of you that have been members

long

> > enough, may be familiar with other posts I've made that are

similar to

> > this one. I am VERY familiar with this type of post.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

OK. Thank you to those that replied to my reach-out. Out of the

despair came hope, faith and action. Here's what I did today, and the

commitment that I will stick to for the next week. Today, I spent some

time 'getting out of my mind and into my life.' I sat in zazen, did

silent walking, experimented with speed i.e. changing the speed of the

vocalization of thoughts I had written out, and committed to a 15

minute work period wherein I cleaned my apartment. After all this, I

chose two valued directions (self-improvement and caring for my

environment) and made a commitment to do the following: For the next

week, on a daily basis, after work and a shower, I will sit in zazen

for 5 minutes and follow that up with a 15 minute work period e.g.

cleaning my apartment, making important phone calls; exercising etc.

Anything that I can do to improve myself or care for my environment

for those 15 minutes, will do.

PS: After my " ACT Sesshun " I noticed a different state of being.

> > >

> > > I'm reaching out for help again. I have in my possession three

> books

> > > currently. They are: Get Out of Your Mind..., The Happiness Trap

> and

> > > Zen Master... I have at least skimmed through all of them, more

> than

> > > once, and even have done some or more of the exercises too. All

> things

> > > considered, I have abandoned using them all. Occasionally in my

> daily

> > > life, I'll do a zazen sitting; use labeling or cubby-holing. I

> can

> > > even just let private events come and go informally, and on the

> go.

> > > However, I do not do any of these things or other suggested ACT

> > > strategies consistently. I have several distressing problem

> areas and

> > > haven't seriously begun to do anything about them currently. The

> > > self-help books don't really work well for me and I have tried

> them. I

> > > have read, talked about, seen ACT therapists and know a great

> deal

> > > about THIS process called ACT. I feel that words, or books are

> done; I

> > > need some concrete suggestions that I can DO, even if it is one

> > > exercise at a time, one week at a time or whatever. I want to do

> > > SOMETHING different about my current life situation and I just

> don't

> > > really know where to start. Those of you that have been members

> long

> > > enough, may be familiar with other posts I've made that are

> similar to

> > > this one. I am VERY familiar with this type of post.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

What's really cool is that there are so many words for " The

Witness " , from Zen (authentic nature), to Carl Jung (who I think

calls it witness) and Eckhart Tolle who just calls it " presense " .

taught us this concept through the " Observing Self " and the

Life Question reminds us of the separation when it begins

as " Starting from the place in which there is a distinction between

you as a conscious, mindful human being on the one hand, and all the

private experiences you are conscious of and struggle with on the

other hand .... "

I think when we fall into the " I need help " trap we are coming from

the view point of our " Conceptualized Self " . Because from the

vantage point of the Witness there is already perfection of the iss-

ness of this moment.

In my own journey, I've been listening to Adyashanti

(Adyashanti.org, lots of free downloads.) And as he talks about the

ego (Conceptualized Self) and our Authentic Nature (The Observing

Self) and the cool thing that I take away from his satsangs is that

the EGO NEVER BECOMES ENLIGHTENED. Like all these years, I've been

reading book after book, using tool after tool, because I really

hope to find one day the veil of illusion lifts and underneath there

is a really enlighted ME (ego). But the whole nature of the

Conceptualized Self means that it never becomes the Observing Self --

if forever more remains locked in the concepts.

What CAN shift however ... is that we no longer identify our " self "

as the story told by the egoic mind (Conceptualized Sense of Self.)

In the few moments that I have glimpsed this to be real and true in

my own body/experience there is an amazing emptyness and peace.

Sometimes it happens while sitting Zazen, occasionally while sitting

in nature ... and once, yes even once it occured right smack in the

middle of a full on panic attack. It was only a glimpse, but gosh

for even a moment of bliss in the middle of a storm was a gift I

will never forget.

So now ... when I am not lost in my story of failure ... I try and

just " glimpse " the truth of my true nature (my observing self) for

even a few minutes a day. Because from that space/place ... there

is no help that I need to seek.

~Em

[Guest guest]

I understand what you are saying Earth Mother. I too have had the

experiential glimpses. (I'm not being rude when I write what comes

next). Let's not get carried away and imply that we NEVER need help (I

know you didn't write that we NEVER need help, nonetheless I did infer

that from what you wrote; I assume others could also assume that?)

YES. During the times of just BEING, I too don't need help, but If

none of us need help, or needing help is just part of STORY, then why

do people REALLY NEED HELP? E.g. when there's something/anything that

I can't do on my own, then I do need help (e.g. help me lift this

200lb couch please; help me by controlling traffic, while I run this

cable line from the pole across the street to the side of this house

please; finally, help me learn how to use ACT.)

>

> What's really cool is that there are so many words for " The

> Witness " , from Zen (authentic nature), to Carl Jung (who I think

> calls it witness) and Eckhart Tolle who just calls it " presense " .

> taught us this concept through the " Observing Self " and the

> Life Question reminds us of the separation when it begins

> as " Starting from the place in which there is a distinction between

> you as a conscious, mindful human being on the one hand, and all the

> private experiences you are conscious of and struggle with on the

> other hand .... "

>

> I think when we fall into the " I need help " trap we are coming from

> the view point of our " Conceptualized Self " . Because from the

> vantage point of the Witness there is already perfection of the iss-

> ness of this moment.

>

> In my own journey, I've been listening to Adyashanti

> (Adyashanti.org, lots of free downloads.) And as he talks about the

> ego (Conceptualized Self) and our Authentic Nature (The Observing

> Self) and the cool thing that I take away from his satsangs is that

> the EGO NEVER BECOMES ENLIGHTENED. Like all these years, I've been

> reading book after book, using tool after tool, because I really

> hope to find one day the veil of illusion lifts and underneath there

> is a really enlighted ME (ego). But the whole nature of the

> Conceptualized Self means that it never becomes the Observing Self --

> if forever more remains locked in the concepts.

>

> What CAN shift however ... is that we no longer identify our " self "

> as the story told by the egoic mind (Conceptualized Sense of Self.)

>

> In the few moments that I have glimpsed this to be real and true in

> my own body/experience there is an amazing emptyness and peace.

> Sometimes it happens while sitting Zazen, occasionally while sitting

> in nature ... and once, yes even once it occured right smack in the

> middle of a full on panic attack. It was only a glimpse, but gosh

> for even a moment of bliss in the middle of a storm was a gift I

> will never forget.

>

> So now ... when I am not lost in my story of failure ... I try and

> just " glimpse " the truth of my true nature (my observing self) for

> even a few minutes a day. Because from that space/place ... there

> is no help that I need to seek.

>

> ~Em

>

[Guest guest]

I LOVE IT!!!

'please help me lift this 200 lb. couch off of me'

'Right Action' can be part of acceptance too.

For me and my own personal pain story, it's realizing there is nothing wrong

with sitting on the couch (once it's been lifted off my chest of course.)

~Em

[Guest guest]

A HA! I get it. When I first read your reply, I didn't get it; two

hours later... A HA! I get it!

>

> I LOVE IT!!!

> 'please help me lift this 200 lb. couch off of me'

>

> 'Right Action' can be part of acceptance too.

>

> For me and my own personal pain story, it's realizing there is

nothing wrong with sitting on the couch (once it's been lifted off my

chest of course.)

>

> ~Em

>

[Guest guest]

Bless you, em, for your marvelous connect-the-dots description of so

many of my own searchings and experiences re

the " witness " ...including the same " guides " .

much peace to you and the others who are part of this community.

alscomi

>

> What's really cool is that there are so many words for " The

> Witness " , from Zen (authentic nature), to Carl Jung (who I think

> calls it witness) and Eckhart Tolle who just calls it " presense " .

> taught us this concept through the " Observing Self " and the

> Life Question reminds us of the separation when it begins

> as " Starting from the place in which there is a distinction

between

> you as a conscious, mindful human being on the one hand, and all

the

> private experiences you are conscious of and struggle with on the

> other hand .... "

>

> I think when we fall into the " I need help " trap we are coming

from

> the view point of our " Conceptualized Self " . Because from the

> vantage point of the Witness there is already perfection of the

iss-

> ness of this moment.

>

> In my own journey, I've been listening to Adyashanti

> (Adyashanti.org, lots of free downloads.) And as he talks about

the

> ego (Conceptualized Self) and our Authentic Nature (The Observing

> Self) and the cool thing that I take away from his satsangs is

that

> the EGO NEVER BECOMES ENLIGHTENED. Like all these years, I've

been

> reading book after book, using tool after tool, because I really

> hope to find one day the veil of illusion lifts and underneath

there

> is a really enlighted ME (ego). But the whole nature of the

> Conceptualized Self means that it never becomes the Observing

Self --

> if forever more remains locked in the concepts.

>

> What CAN shift however ... is that we no longer identify

our " self "

> as the story told by the egoic mind (Conceptualized Sense of Self.)

>

> In the few moments that I have glimpsed this to be real and true

in

> my own body/experience there is an amazing emptyness and peace.

> Sometimes it happens while sitting Zazen, occasionally while

sitting

> in nature ... and once, yes even once it occured right smack in

the

> middle of a full on panic attack. It was only a glimpse, but gosh

> for even a moment of bliss in the middle of a storm was a gift I

> will never forget.

>

> So now ... when I am not lost in my story of failure ... I try and

> just " glimpse " the truth of my true nature (my observing self) for

> even a few minutes a day. Because from that space/place ... there

> is no help that I need to seek.

>

> ~Em

>

[Guest guest]

Bill, thank for the suggestion. The Happiness Trap sounds like

GOOYMAIYL for Dummies, which I need because GOOYMAIYL is not easy reading.

I agree that I need to do the values work or take committed action.

But how do I motivate myself to do this work regularly until it

becomes a habit?

I feel like I need 'ACT Boot Camp' or a therapist who will somehow

make me work. A class I could attend might help, is there anything out

there like this?

>

>

> Welcome to the group! I recommend you try The Happiness Trap by Russ

. It is a good followup to GOOYMAIYL. Since you've been through

one book it might be good to think about where you are stuck. I've met

many people who thought they could meditate their way out of their

situation when they really needed to do the values work or committed

action.

> Keep us posted on how you are doing.

>

> Bill

>

>

>

> To: ACT_for_the_Public@...: anglofeel@...: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 00:19:50

+0000Subject: Getting Help

>

>

>

> Hello, this is my first post and I really need some help and

suggestions.I have read GOOYMAIYF and I have done many of the

exercises too buteventually I seem to have given up. This seems to

happen often with mewith self-help books (of which I have many). I

have tried 'The MindfulWay Through Depression' too, and again after a

while I stopped readingand practicing. I have been to therapists

before but not for ACT/Mindfulness typetherapies. It seems that I have

picked up a few tips about how toimprove my life for an awful lot of

money, on the other hand I don'tthink can turn things around without

someone's help. I have combination of depression, ADD and apparently a

complete lackof self-discipline. To start working on ACT again I need

to be feelingpretty bad. I have noticed too that fear is my major

motivation. Forexample I have been taking classes to learn new job

skills as I needthe test deadlines and the fear of failure to motivate

me to study.Any ideas?

>

[Guest guest]

You;ve got it Tami. If it works for you then it works. Bill

Re:Getting Help

Try going to GOOYM & IYL chapters on Values, and maybe committment (the last few chapters) then looping back to earlier chapters. Sometimes, I just feel like throwing in towels too. Then I think it's possible I have lost track of something of vital importance too me...more important than feeling better right now. And I watch myself doing what I don't feel like doing, not because it feels better, but because it lives more. I revise and revise those values statements in that section as I live more. But by a rule: to say "yes" to life, not "no" to pain.Today I remembered to say yes to "caring for my health" (a value) and "appreciating my loved ones" (a value). I made a silly list; and watched myself do it.I give up; then I don't.Tami

[Guest guest]

I will get the Happiness Trap. Every time I buy a new book I do some

work , I just need more books on the same subject/therapy! I take your

point about the values work.

>

>

> If you know that regular work will form new habits you will do the

work when you get really tired of your present state. Be sure to do the

values work so your life will make more sense - the voice of experience.

The interesting thing about ACT for me is that I stumbled around for

quite a while and then had an ah ha experience when it began to work. I

distinctly remember when I had my first successful acceptance

experience. The rush from it was a good ride. Of course the next time

wasn't nearly as good as I expected. Now the lows are not nearly as long

or as low and the highs are not quite so high but are longer. I now have

the confidence that I can accept/defuse/be mindful/take committed action

towards a valued life if I keep my observing-self alert. One of my

favorite adages is COOL HEADS WILL PREVAIL. This applies to ACT. When

the boogey man comes along don't panic. Stay cool and he'll move on!

Panic and he'll stay forever with a big smile on hsi face.

>

> Russ has a 14 week weekly email to go along with The Happiness

Trap. You can find it at his website. The ACT site has a link to find

out if there is therapist in your area. A good therapist might be able

to help you in just a few sessions and then be there for you if you get

stuck.

>

> I hope " ACT for Dummies " will help.

>

> Bill

[Guest guest]

I am not sure how to go about finding a low cost therapist, what is low

cost? A therapist I went to before charged $160/hr.

I am already working on the ADD/drug idea with my doctor. I don't have a

clear memory of being diagnosed with ADD, but informal tests say I do

have it and I was previously prescribed ADD type drugs (stimulants and

NRI's).

Not sure about group therapy, before I found it very difficult, any more

than two or three people I don't know well and I become very silent.

> >

> > Hello, this is my first post and I really need some help and

> suggestions.

> >

> > I have read GOOYMAIYF and I have done many of the exercises too but

> > eventually I seem to have given up. This seems to happen often with

me

> > with self-help books (of which I have many). I have tried 'The

Mindful

> > Way Through Depression' too, and again after a while I stopped

reading

> > and practicing.

> >

> > I have been to therapists before but not for ACT/Mindfulness type

> > therapies. It seems that I have picked up a few tips about how to

> > improve my life for an awful lot of money, on the other hand I don't

> > think can turn things around without someone's help.

> >

> > I have combination of depression, ADD and apparently a complete lack

> > of self-discipline. To start working on ACT again I need to be

feeling

> > pretty bad. I have noticed too that fear is my major motivation. For

> > example I have been taking classes to learn new job skills as I need

> > the test deadlines and the fear of failure to motivate me to study.

> >

> > Any ideas?

> >

>