Guest guest Posted April 9, 2003 Report Share Posted April 9, 2003 In a message dated 4/9/03 9:06:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time, flame@... writes: > Thanks so much for taking the time to respond to my question. Could you > tell me how I would go about having testing done? I'm new to this end of > creating body care products and I have no idea where to begin. > > I may decide along with others who have advised me that it isn't worth my > time afterall > > Thanks again - > > Vicki Blair > > Hi Vicki, Don't give up yet! Even if you do not choose to sell your products, you can certainly make them for your own enjoyment. It is important to read, experiment, ask questions and just learn as much as you can. A good place to start is with our cosmeticinfo files and archives. There are volumes! A good place to start is with the FDA's standards/regulations for cosmetics. The link is in our files somewhere I believe. Learn GMP---Good Manufacturing Practices.....extremely important. Learn about preservatives. Learn about emulsions. Learn, learn, learn. Then make your decision. You may decide it is more than you bargained for, but I believe it is worth it--or else I would still be working in public health trying to get people to lose weight and eat better...but I digress Challenge testing is the only way to know for sure that your formulation can withstand/inhibit microbial " invasions " (strange word choice?) But, quite honestly, very few homecrafters have their formulations challenge tested. What you CAN have done though is a simple test----aerobic plate count. This test will be relatively inexpensive--$30 and less and can at least tell you if your batch is " clean " . This should offer some comfort and reassurance. But I think there is ALOT of " playing " or experimenting and learning to be done before that step needs to be taken. I am not a fan of making something up one weekend and sellng it at a craft show the next. I think there is alot that we, as homecrafters, can do ourselves. For example, we can conduct our own informal stability testing by using the freeze/thaw method. I try to use it for all my formulations to make sure they at least appear to be stable. It's a good method. So, here are some thoughts and ideas. I hope this isn't too long, Pat, but hopefully it will help. Angie The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2003 Report Share Posted April 9, 2003 >Thanks so much for taking the time to respond to my question. Could you >tell me how I would go about having testing done? I'm new to this end of >creating body care products and I have no idea where to begin. Since you are new, you should probably read the Principles of Preservation which can be found in the CosmeticInfo files area: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo/files/Preservative_Info/Principles_of\ _Preservation.pdf The subject of aerobic plate count and challenge testing has been discussed several times. If you search the message archives for challenge testing you'll get many hits. Then if you have questions, come back here. >I may decide along with others who have advised me that it isn't worth my >time afterall It's difficult for someone not versed is the art and science of formulating simple lotions. Maurice -------------------------------------------------------- Maurice O. Hevey Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com ------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2003 Report Share Posted April 9, 2003 In a message dated 4/9/03 12:41:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, cheryl2851@... writes: > Angie, > You made some good points. I make my own lotions and > I love it. I don't sell to anyone just for myself and > family. > I made some goats milk lotion and I love it! It is > creamy and smooth. I sterilized, wore gloves heated > and the information in these files is priceless. I > also used two preservatives and so far so good. > > Question to all I want to make an eye cream and have > tinkered around a little bit. What oils do you feel > are beficial for the soft area around they eye. I > have used rose hip seed oil and calendula infused. So > far. Also what is a viable option other than E WAX? > I really want to find a different and less waxy > feeling in my lotions? Any suggestions I would > welcome. Thanks again for all the information in the > archives and files. > Cheryl > Hi Cheryl, That's great! Even if you have no desire to sell your products, I think it is so nice to be able to make things for yourself and your family. It sounds like you take great care in making your lotions and I bet they are wonderful!! Here are a couple of tips that you may already know, but I'll mention them anyway. First, always use heat to your advantage, especially when working with botanicals, proteins, or other water soluble ingredients, like milk, that could possibly have some microbes lurking around. Heat will kill many bacteria and mold and therefore will make your preservative more effective. I haven't worked with milk in a lotion, but I know Jen Welch has done so and perhaps she can offer some special tips. But for all water solubles it is a good idea to heat to at least 180F. If I am making herbal infusions, I heat the water and botanical to at least 180F and hold the temp constant for at least 30 minutes. I strain out the solids and then repeat the heating procedure. From what I have read and learned, it seems to me that the most effective preservative for high water content products...such as a lotion and most creams...is Germall Plus (liquid or powder). It is also a good idea to use a chelating agent, such as disodium or tetrasodium ETDA, in your hard to preserve emulsions---like the goat milk. This chelating agent will help your preservative to be as effective as possible. This is information that has been given to me by Steve Orafino at ISP Sutton Labs and I trust his opinion. Eye creams require special care and I think some caution. The eye can easily become infected and the products used must be very " clean " . In most creams, I would recommend the higher end of the recommended usage for your preservative, simply because the likelihood for more microbes to be introduced is greater. Of course testing is ideal. Now for the fun stuff I think any oil that has a high EFA composition is good to use for the face or eye area. There are a whole bunch of 'actives' around that claim to get rid of wrinkles, etc. There is some evidence that some of them actually do work...but I won't go there because that gets into the drug claims and such. You mention rose hip seed oil...a good choice I think. Evening Primrose oil is one of my favorites too. I love the distillates for use on the face. I particularly love rose and witch hazel distillates/hydrosols. There are really lots of options. The old standby for reducing puffiness around eyes is a slice of cucumber...if you haven't read A Modern Herbal by Mrs. Grieve it makes fun and interesting reading. I do have some suggestions for options other than emulsifying wax NF and also for some nice additives for an eye cream. But since they are The Herbarie products I hesitate to elaborate on list. You can write to me personally if you are interested though. Good luck with everything and have fun! Angie The Herbarie - Botanicals and Body Care Natural Source & Specialty Bulk Ingredients...Exceptional Quality at Wholesale Prices...visit us at http://www.theherbarie.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2003 Report Share Posted April 9, 2003 >I made some goats milk lotion and I love it! It is >creamy and smooth. I sterilized, wore gloves heated >and the information in these files is priceless. I >also used two preservatives and so far so good. Cheryl, Which preservatives did you use? Maurice -------------------------------------------------------- Maurice O. Hevey Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com ------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2003 Report Share Posted April 9, 2003 I've thought about making a milk type lotion but I had such a devil of a time preserving a lotion I made with water infused with herbs that I decided not to chance it. If I had the right perservative though...I might be tempeted!! > > > >I made some goats milk lotion and I love it! It is > >creamy and smooth. I sterilized, wore gloves heated > >and the information in these files is priceless. I > >also used two preservatives and so far so good. > > Cheryl, > > Which preservatives did you use? > > Maurice > > > -------------------------------------------------------- > Maurice O. Hevey > Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. > http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > Post message: Cosmeticinfo > Subscribe: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo > Unsubscribe: Cosmeticinfo-unsubscribe > List owner: Cosmeticinfo-owner > URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2003 Report Share Posted April 10, 2003 >I used Germaban II and also Uniphen 23. Maybe a >little much but I was a little worried. You should be concerned. Germaben II and Uniphen P-23 both contain parabens: Uniphen P-23 (INCI name: Phenoxyethanol (and) Methylparaben (and) Butylparaben (and) Ethylparaben (and) Propylparaben) Germaben II (INCI name: Propylene Glycol (and) olidinyl Urea (and) Methylparaben (and) Propylparaben) Depending on how much you used, it's possible that the amount of parabens in your formula may have exceeded the maximum levels permitted in Japan and the EU. Maurice -------------------------------------------------------- Maurice O. Hevey Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com ------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2003 Report Share Posted April 10, 2003 At 05:52 AM 4-10-03 -0500, you wrote: >Depending on how much you used, it's possible that the amount of parabens >in your formula may have exceeded the maximum levels permitted in Japan >and the EU. Why do Japan and the EU have a lower maximum level than the US for parabens? Tabach Potomac Soap Co. LLC www.potomacsoapco.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2003 Report Share Posted April 10, 2003 >Why do Japan and the EU have a lower maximum level than the US for parabens? Hmmm..., I wasn't aware that there was a maximum permitted level for parabens in the USA. Where did you see this? I believe that the reason that the EU and Japan put limits on the maximum level for parabens has to do with contact dermatitis. Also, I cannot see why anyone would want to exceed the solubility of parabens in water. Solubility of parabens in water at 20C Methylparaben = 0.25% Propylparaben = 0.04% Butylparaben = 0.02% Ethylparabenen = 0.11% Maurice -------------------------------------------------------- Maurice O. Hevey Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com ------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2003 Report Share Posted April 10, 2003 At 08:31 AM 4-10-03 -0500, you wrote: > > > >Why do Japan and the EU have a lower maximum level than the US for parabens? > >Hmmm..., I wasn't aware that there was a maximum permitted level for >parabens in the USA. Where did you see this? I didn't - I just assumed it, making an ass out of you and me, except I seemed to have made an ass out of only myself. So what you are saying is that the US has no such maximum, but Japan and the EU do. OK, now that we've cleared that up I'll rephrase the question. Why doesn't the US have a maximum permitted level? >I believe that the reason that the EU and Japan put limits on the maximum >level for parabens has to do with contact dermatitis. OK, that makes sense. Can I assume here that Americans get contact dermatitis from too many parabens as well? >Also, I cannot see why anyone would want to exceed the solubility of >parabens in water. > >Solubility of parabens in water at 20C > >Methylparaben = 0.25% >Propylparaben = 0.04% >Butylparaben = 0.02% >Ethylparabenen = 0.11% Well, I can't see why anyone would want to either, but that wasn't my question although it does raise some more. But I'll keep my stupid questions to myself from now on! Tabach Potomac Soap Co. LLC www.potomacsoapco.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2003 Report Share Posted April 10, 2003 >So what you are saying is that the US has no such maximum, but Japan and the EU do. AFAIK, that is an accurate statement. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo/files/Preservative_Info/EU_Annex_VI_P\ reservatives_Permitted.pdf http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo/files/Preservative_Info/Japanese_Appr\ oved_Preservatives.pdf >Why doesn't the US have a maximum permitted level? In comparison to other countries, the cosmetic industry in the US is self-regulating. >>I believe that the reason that the EU and Japan put limits on the maximum >>level for parabens has to do with contact dermatitis. > >OK, that makes sense. Can I assume here that Americans get contact >dermatitis from too many parabens as well? Seems logical to me. That's why I expressed my concern to Cheryl. > I'll keep my stupid questions to myself from now on! That's really not a good idea. How else will you learn if you don't ask questions? Isn't it better to ask questions rather than exposing yourself, family, friends and customers to potential harm. Maurice -------------------------------------------------------- Maurice O. Hevey Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com ------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2003 Report Share Posted April 10, 2003 > Is the Freeze/thaw method outlined somewhere in the > files? I am having trouble finding it--bettijo I doubt it. I think what Angie was saying is that there are many things we can do for ourselves without having to run to a lab every time we turn around. When you ship a product there is the possibility that it will freeze or be exposed to some rather high temperatures. Under those conditions strange things can happen to your products, like breaking down. Your beautiful lotion could end up separating in to water and oil. You can test this at home in your freezer. Put your product in your freezer for 24 hours and then observe if there have been any changes to it. You can purchase ovens that will age a product for you. If you put a lotion in one of those for a few months it would be equivalent to a year on the shelf. So you will know without having to wait the year if your product will hold up over time. The ovens are probably out of our price range and would be something you would see in a lab. If Maurice was kind enough to let us know what temperatures he uses it would be possible to make one using either light bulbs or heat lamps. It wouldn't be as reliable, but it would give a person a good idea of how their products are holding up. Pat. Peace, Joy, Serenity House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc. pat@... http://www.houseofscents.com/ ----- Original Message ----- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2003 Report Share Posted April 11, 2003 >Put your product in your freezer for 24 hours and then >observe if there have been any changes to it. You should try 2 or 3 freeze thaw cycles. >You can purchase ovens that >will age a product for you. If you put a lotion in one of those for a few >months it would be equivalent to a year on the shelf. So you will know >without having to wait the year if your product will hold up over time. The >ovens are probably out of our price range and would be something you would >see in a lab. If Maurice was kind enough to let us know what temperatures he >uses it would be possible to make one using either light bulbs or heat >lamps. It wouldn't be as reliable, but it would give a person a good idea of >how their products are holding up. I conduct my accelerated stability testing at 42C. As a rule of thumb, three months at 42C is equivalent to 1 year at room temperature. I say that its a rule of thumb because there are some formulas that will be unstable at 42C and will be stable for years. And there are some formulas that are stable at 42C and will breakdown after one month at room temperature. Maurice -------------------------------------------------------- Maurice O. Hevey Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com ------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.