DHT (di-hydro-testosterone) & Prometrium

[Guest guest]

We can overload the Testosterone-DHT pathway by: -too much DHEA, Testosterone, or Progesterone. -too much Estrogen also drives up T & DHT because too much E 'downstream' causes the 'upstream' hormones (DHEA, T, DHT) to back-up and overflow

>>>>>Pat great info. Considering the high doses of P I've been on (100-450mgs. BID) for the last 20 months, would it be safe to say I "overloaded" my T-DHT pathways? I seemed to be OK with P, when I did 30-45mgs P BID, then along came the WP, and the huge P doses felt like they tipped my world. I am sure the increasing E wasn't good either, but was the only way I seemed , at the time, to be able to handle all that P. Was so caught up in the book hype, I didn't think for myself, or listen to my bodies symptoms. Many were new to me and I lacked good direction, it started me on the search for BHRT truths and knowledge, THANK YOU for popping in to help us out when you can.

[Guest guest]

Dear RL Group,

Two items, among others, are screaming for some clarification:

First. re DHT.

" ...I told my doctor I would like to be tested for di-hydro-testosterone,

because of the

excess sebum - skin eruptions - on my forehead and body, and oily hair the day

after I

washed it. He confirmed that Progesterone can do that among other things, by

branching

off into DHT... "

DHT (di-hydro-testosterone) is a normal metabolite of normal Testosterone. When

hormones are in balance we all (women & men) produce some DHT from Testosterone.

(For simplicity lets say 10% of T becomes DHT.) In a healthy body DHT is

balanced by

Progesterone (they compete for the same receptor). In balance there is no

problem.

Acne, hair loss and problems related to DHT have to do with too much DHT and/or

too

little Progesterone. Proper levels of DHT combined with a proper balanced level

of

Progesterone will not cause problems.

DHT problems occur when one of two things happens:

(1) If we overload the DHEA-Testosterone pathway even the normal 10% going to

DHT

becomes too high. In other words: 10% of normal = normal. 10% of too much = too

much.

(2) DHT can also become a problem if we lack the proper balancing hormone which

is

Progesterone. Too little P means even a normal amount of DHT becomes too much.

The

too much DHT can be an 'absolute high', just plain too much. Or a 'relative

high'; too high

in relation to inadequate Progesterone.

We can overload the Testosterone-DHT pathway by:

-too much DHEA, Testosterone, or Progesterone.

-too much Estrogen also drives up T & DHT because too much E 'downstream' causes

the

'upstream' hormones (DHEA, T, DHT) to back-up and overflow.

How to avoid these problems? Proper baseline testing of P, DHEA, T, DHT & E.

Rational

dosing monitored by proper follow-up testing. Quick adjustments as needed.

Second. re Prometrium postings:

Real, natural Progesterone is safe and without side effects when properly dosed.

But you

can not patent a natural substance so drug companies modify Progesterone into

deformed

drugs called " Progestins " . Progestins can be combined with Estrogen to produce a

menstrual cycle; beyond that almost all similarities with Progesterone

disappear. Indeed

almost all the effects of Progestins are 100% the opposite of real, natural

Progesterone!

Progestins can also be made by deforming real Testosterone. These Testosterone

derived

Progestins are just as harmful as those created by deforming Progesterone. None

have any

role in a rational, safe therapy.

An excellent guide to Progesterone vs Progestins is Lee MD's book " What

Your Doctor

May Not Tell You About Menoause " . Read Chapter 7 aptly titled 'The Dramatic

Difference

Between Progesterone and Progestins'. This Warner Books paperback is widely

available.

ISBN # 0-446-69142-9. Be sure to get the 2004 version. You can't mistake it.

Across the

top of the book's cover is a bold black stripe reading " Revised and Updated " .

Now back to Prometrium which is the drug companies version of real, natural

Progesterone. It comes in a peanut oil base in 100mg and 200mg doses. The peanut

oil

has a lot of allergy problems for many people and the doses are too few and too

large.

Some women can tolerate it, even do well with it.

The problem with Prometrium in these RL discussions is with the Product Labeling

from

the drug company.

Uzzi Reiss MD/Ob-Gyn in his book " Natural Hormone Balance for Women " (2001)

seems

like a very sweet guy who still manages to get about half of the story wrong.

But he does

know a fair amount about what real progesterone does and does not do. He also

knows

the difference between real Progesterone and counterfeit Progestins. So he

correctly

caught the Prometrium labeling problem.

Dr Uzzi Reiss (page 119) writes:

" When you read the label of Prometrium, don't be shocked. The text is full of

the kind of

warnings you see on the labels of drugs for birth control pills. I was astounded

to see, for

instance, 'known or suspected pregnancy' as one of the contraindications.

Progesterone is

one of the main medical tools we have to support pregnancy. The company seems to

be

treating its product as if it were Provera. [Note: Provera is the best known and

one of the

most harmful Progestins! -Pat.]

I was also amazed to find a warning on the label about thrombophlebitis,

cerebrovascular

disorders, and pulmonary embolisms. The risk for these conditions are increased

substantially by the use of birth control pills that contain chemicalized

hormones. Natural

progesterone has no such adverse effect.

The label also mentions malignancy of the breasts or genital organs as

contraindications,

which is ridiculous. Natural progesterone helps protect the body against cancer.

Any woman reading this label can only be more confused, and more frightened.

I agree with the warning on the label about peanut oil. the manufacturer uses

this oil to

'deliver' the hormone into the body. Indeed, many people have serious allergies

to peanuts

and peanut oil. "

(Reiss. Natural Hormone Balance For Women. Page 119.)

In short, the Prometrium label/warning is a source of mis-information about

real, natural

Progesterone. If you are concerned about the Progesterone in the Wiley Protocol

you will

only get confused and mis-informed reading the Prometrium labeling.

For accurate Progesterone information your best source remains Lee MD.

" What Your

Doctor May Not Tell You About Menopause " . Revised & Updated 2004 Edition.

If you read Lee on Menopause, consider next reading his excellent " What Your

Doctor May

Not Tell You About Breast Cancer " . Also in Warner Books paperback. But always

read the

more basic Menopause volume first. The least valuable of the Lee volumes is his

PreMenopause book. Even young women do best to start with the Menopause volume.

Lee's " Menopause " book Chapter 9 'What Are Androgens' also has useful, accurate

information re DHT which is where this Post started:

" ...Progesterone produced by the ovaries also plays an important role in curbing

excessive

growth of facial hair and acne in young women by blocking the conversion of

testosterone

to DHT ... Progesterone occupies the testosterone binding site of 5-alpha

reductase,

preventing it from binding testosterone and converting it to the more potent

DHT. "

(Lee. " Menopause " volume. page 110. 2004 Revised Edition.)

Best wishes to all,

Pat