Re: Authentic Values vs. Fused Beliefs

[Guest guest]

If I don't put that as a value others may think badly of me.

I am a terrible person if I don't put X as a value.

I'd like to put that as a value but it sounds selfish.

If I put that down as a value, others may think badly of me.

Any time you are telling yourself you " Should "

Greg P

>

> Hi all,

>

> I'm having a difficult time discerning true valued directions as

> opposed to what Ive learned to care about in my childhood. I need

help

> in discovering that which I truly value as opposed to what I think I

> value based on my history.

>

> How do I know if I'm on the right track or I'm just choosing

> a valued direction that is predictable, comfortable, acceptable?

What

> clues do I look for that something is truly a value?

>

> I really like the question in the book: " What would you do if no-one

> knew? " I guess that's the sort of gage I'm looking for. Are there

any

> other exercises or questions along these lines that I may want to

play

> with?

>

> Thanks in advance for any input!

>

> Peace,

> Joanne

>

[Guest guest]

There was some recent discussion about this I think (I'mnot sure, my memory is a sieve) and also a recent blog by with anexercise about how we can learn what we value through our own personalpain. For instance, for me, one of the painful things that I deal with isa sense of loneliness or "missing out" which means that I care deeply (or value)connecting with others. Another thing I seem to be dealing with a lotlately is a sense of frustration and boredom at work which means I value beingof service. The exercise Steve gave (which is not in the book) wasreally powerful in that it teaches you you can't have one without the other --if there were no dark we wouldn't know what light was. Reminds me of anAlan Watts book I read years ago but I can't tell you what that waseither.

From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf OfhershjoanneSent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 12:09PMTo: ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Authentic Values vs. Fused Beliefs

Hi all,I'm having a difficult time discerning true valueddirections asopposed to what Ive learned to care about in my childhood. Ineed helpin discovering that which I truly value as opposed to what Ithink Ivalue based on my history.How do I know if I'm on the righttrack or I'm just choosinga valued direction that is predictable,comfortable, acceptable? Whatclues do I look for that something is truly avalue?I really like the question in the book: "What would you do ifno-oneknew?" I guess that's the sort of gage I'm looking for. Are thereanyother exercises or questions along these lines that I may want toplaywith? Thanks in advance for anyinput!Peace,Joanne

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The information contained in this email may be confidential and/or legally privileged. It has been sent for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication, or any of its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. To contact our email administrator directly, send to postmaster@...

Thank you.

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[Guest guest]

Yes, Thanks Greg. I really get that my values need to be mine. I

suppose one of my concerns is that I don't want to spend too much time

NOT make something a value just because that's what I learned as a

child. In other words, I don't want to throw the baby out with the

bathwater. Some of the values I learned early on continue to resonate

with me deeply.

This dialouge helps, because I see perhaps what I really am asking is

how to better fine-tune things. That is, maybe I'm really asking how

to prioritize and channel my energies. Maybe I just to need to better

formulate goals that are more closely aligned with my valued

directions?

My goals (job choices and day to day activites) seem to be fairly

close to my values, but true too, they seem to keep missing the mark,

and increasingly so. So I'm left feeling wanting. And I'm not sure

what that's about. And therein lies my pain.

Maybe its about nothing more than

needing more balance

between competing values. Because I do feel other things

beckoning me-- things I found in my youth I was fairly gifted at, but

for one reason or another remained unexplored.

So is this all Maslow, and his hierarchy of needs/self-actualization?

I so appreciate this discourse tremendously and feel excited about

where this is headed.

Peace,

Joanne

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > I'm having a difficult time discerning true valued directions as

> > opposed to what Ive learned to care about in my childhood. I need

> help

> > in discovering that which I truly value as opposed to what I think I

> > value based on my history.

> >

> > How do I know if I'm on the right track or I'm just choosing

> > a valued direction that is predictable, comfortable, acceptable?

> What

> > clues do I look for that something is truly a value?

> >

> > I really like the question in the book: " What would you do if no-one

> > knew? " I guess that's the sort of gage I'm looking for. Are there

> any

> > other exercises or questions along these lines that I may want to

> play

> > with?

> >

> > Thanks in advance for any input!

> >

> > Peace,

> > Joanne

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Irene,

Thanks so much for your response. Yes, I do believe I have read a god

deal of the archives here about values in terms of what they are and

what they aren't--not adjectives, not nouns--but adverbs and verbs.

Directions, not goals.

I also read all of Steve's blogs on Amazon and found them very

helpful. Yes--I loved the one about the 3*5 cards where you

essentially get that the very place where we feel pain and sturggle

can also serve to inform us as to what we value. Although admittedly,

I have not done this exercise--so I will. I sense that this is an

amazing exercise in learning to expand our sense of who we are--warts

of all. An amazing act of self-acceptance and self-love.

Your personal example here intriguied me. Thanks for sharing it. I was

hoping you could elaborate a bit. You said you noticed you were bored

and frustrated and that meant you value being of service. How is it

you went from that felt state to that decided value?

Ah yes--Alan Watts was great fun to read--I remember taking to his

work in my 20's and 30's--loved the book about blending Eastern and

Western

Psychotherapy. Writings like his (along with other experiences) wno

doubt were early seeds that nurtured my current attraction to ACT and

all it entails.

Thanks again Irene!

Warmly,

Joanne

>

>

> There was some recent discussion about this I think (I'm not sure, my

> memory is a sieve) and also a recent blog by with an

> exercise about how we can learn what we value through our own personal

> pain. For instance, for me, one of the painful things that I deal with

> is a sense of loneliness or " missing out " which means that I care deeply

> (or value) connecting with others. Another thing I seem to be dealing

> with a lot lately is a sense of frustration and boredom at work which

> means I value being of service. The exercise Steve gave (which is not

> in the book) was really powerful in that it teaches you you can't have

> one without the other -- if there were no dark we wouldn't know what

> light was. Reminds me of an Alan Watts book I read years ago but I

> can't tell you what that was either.

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> From: ACT_for_the_Public

> [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of hershjoanne

> Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 12:09 PM

> To: ACT_for_the_Public

> Subject: Authentic Values vs. Fused Beliefs

>

>

>

> Hi all,

>

> I'm having a difficult time discerning true valued directions as

> opposed to what Ive learned to care about in my childhood. I

> need help

> in discovering that which I truly value as opposed to what I

> think I

> value based on my history.

>

> How do I know if I'm on the right track or I'm just choosing

> a valued direction that is predictable, comfortable, acceptable?

> What

> clues do I look for that something is truly a value?

>

> I really like the question in the book: " What would you do if

> no-one

> knew? " I guess that's the sort of gage I'm looking for. Are

> there any

> other exercises or questions along these lines that I may want

> to play

> with?

>

> Thanks in advance for any input!

>

> Peace,

> Joanne

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

_____

>

> The information contained in this email may be confidential and/or

legally privileged. It has been sent for the sole use of the intended

recipient(s). If the reader of this message is not an intended

recipient, you are hereby notified that any unauthorized review, use,

disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this

communication, or any of its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you

have received this communication in error, please contact the sender

by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. To

contact our email administrator directly, send to postmaster@...

>

> Thank you.

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

_____

>

[Guest guest]

Here are some questions to ask about each value. I believe this was

developed by J.T. Blackledge for ACT workshops.

1. I value this because someone else wants me ot or thinks I ought

to, or because someone else will like it if I do. I probably

wouldn't say I value this if I didn't get some kind of praise or

approval for it.

2. I value this because I would feel ashamed, guilty, or anxious if

I didn't.

3. I value this because I experience fun and enjoyment when I am

engaged in the value.

4. I value this because I view it as important, whether or not

others agree. Although this value may have been taught to me by

others, now it is my own heartfelt value.

5. I value this because doing these things make my life better, more

meaningful, and/or more vital.

6. I am committed to living this value (to acting consistently with

this value)

Just because you learned it as a child doesn't make it wrong. What

ever you value is what you value. There is no right or wrong.

I often feel like I am missing the mark, and still keep moving

forward. I would love it if everything I did was in perfect

alignment with what made me happy. That doesn't happen. So I just

keep doing, sometimes I hit the mark or come close, sometimes not.

The point is I'm no longer sitting around trying to figure out how

to live, I am living.

I look back and think of all the time I have wasted on being afraid

of this or that, and afraid of what people might think. What's cool

now is I can feel that, still feel afraid of this or that, and

afraid of what people might think, and take all that with me while I

do all the things I want to do. I now value life too much to let

that crap stop me.

Now is the perfect time to start living.

Greg P

> > >

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > I'm having a difficult time discerning true valued directions

as

> > > opposed to what Ive learned to care about in my childhood. I

need

> > help

> > > in discovering that which I truly value as opposed to what I

think I

> > > value based on my history.

> > >

> > > How do I know if I'm on the right track or I'm just choosing

> > > a valued direction that is predictable, comfortable,

acceptable?

> > What

> > > clues do I look for that something is truly a value?

> > >

> > > I really like the question in the book: " What would you do if

no-one

> > > knew? " I guess that's the sort of gage I'm looking for. Are

there

> > any

> > > other exercises or questions along these lines that I may want

to

> > play

> > > with?

> > >

> > > Thanks in advance for any input!

> > >

> > > Peace,

> > > Joanne

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Greg!

Some more assorted thoughts about what both you and Irene have been

kind enough to take the time to write about:

I really like these as helpful questions to ask myself to begin to

identify my true values. #6 feels important, but more like something I

would ask myself after I identify a valued direction--not before--it

feels like it falls into the: 'willingness to take the

plunge--committed to doing it'category found in Chapter 13.

I recognize that just because I learned (and boy did I) that some

things are much more valuable than others as a child, it doesn't make

it invaluable.

I just want to get to a cleaner, freer place of choice where I am the

chooser, not act from some old ancient memory of what I go kudos for

long ago. What I learned would keep me safe and accepted as a child.

Teasing this is out is not always as easy as it appears, although I'm

willing for it to be. So that's the million dollar question for me

right now.

I also appreciate what Irene mentioned about the 3x5 card exercise

from Steve's blog. I love the idea of that exercise, as I've always

appreciated the Humanistic thrust of ACT which says there is

tremendous value in our pain. " What if inside your pain there is a

precious jewel? " I really appreciate and respect this premise. I think

it is potentially damaging and dismissive on a very natural intuitive

level to try ardently to squelch or avoid our experience, to undermine

our process, to dis-allow and accept all of ourselves. To try to

split off and entirely rid ourselves of " character defects " or faults

(as though we could!). It seems this could be fragmenting and

encourage a sort of duality of shame-based thinking and feeling that

is not only artificial but very troublesome: bad/good, devil/angel,

perfect/terrible and so forth. And even more to the point, there is

are gems to be found in our pain--so let's hang with it long enough to

learn.

I understand that life is not perfect, values are not perfect, and we

all often feel like we are missing the mark. But I'm just looking like

I said to move toward a freer, more flexible place from which to

consider what I truly value in life. It occurs to me that perhaps I

need to do more mindfullness and diffusion exercises to reach this place.

I also notice that the value areas in the book overlap in real life.

Sometimes things like spiritualiy and work and family and community

and so forth converge--they aren't necessarily separate endeavors or

categories.

Anyway, thanks again as I muddle through this. It's good to know I'm

not alone in this and I really appreciate everyone's feedback.

Peace,

Joanne

> > > >

> > > > Hi all,

> > > >

> > > > I'm having a difficult time discerning true valued directions

> as

> > > > opposed to what Ive learned to care about in my childhood. I

> need

> > > help

> > > > in discovering that which I truly value as opposed to what I

> think I

> > > > value based on my history.

> > > >

> > > > How do I know if I'm on the right track or I'm just choosing

> > > > a valued direction that is predictable, comfortable,

> acceptable?

> > > What

> > > > clues do I look for that something is truly a value?

> > > >

> > > > I really like the question in the book: " What would you do if

> no-one

> > > > knew? " I guess that's the sort of gage I'm looking for. Are

> there

> > > any

> > > > other exercises or questions along these lines that I may want

> to

> > > play

> > > > with?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks in advance for any input!

> > > >

> > > > Peace,

> > > > Joanne

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

" I really like these as helpful questions to ask myself to begin to

identify my true values. #6 feels important, but more like something I

would ask myself after I identify a valued direction "

That is correct. These are questions to ask after you have Identified

a value. What would be wrong with identifying a value and then later

realizing that it really isn't something you value?

" I just want to get to a cleaner, freer place of choice where I am the

chooser, not act from some old ancient memory of what I go kudos for

long ago. What I learned would keep me safe and accepted as a child.

Teasing this is out is not always as easy as it appears, although I'm

willing for it to be. So that's the million dollar question for me

right now. "

I really understand that. That sounds like a great plan, makes a lot

of sense. Work on getting to a place where you will be able to figure

out what is important. Althought I am wondering, if this strategy has

ever worked before? If it has, then great, keep working toward it. I

really don't know, but if your experience has showed that doing this

has never really helped in the past you may want to consider a

different approach. It probably will work for you, I just know that

type of approach has never worked for me. When ever I let my mind

tell me stuff like that it turns out to be just another shovel I use

to dig my way out of the hole.

Please let me know when you find that place.

Greg P

ACT_for_the_Public , " hershjoanne " wrote:

>

> Thanks Greg!

>

> Some more assorted thoughts about what both you and Irene have been

> kind enough to take the time to write about:

>

> I really like these as helpful questions to ask myself to begin to

> identify my true values. #6 feels important, but more like

something I

> would ask myself after I identify a valued direction--not before--it

> feels like it falls into the: 'willingness to take the

> plunge--committed to doing it'category found in Chapter 13.

>

> I recognize that just because I learned (and boy did I) that some

> things are much more valuable than others as a child, it doesn't

make

> it invaluable.

>

> I just want to get to a cleaner, freer place of choice where I am

the

> chooser, not act from some old ancient memory of what I go kudos for

> long ago. What I learned would keep me safe and accepted as a child.

> Teasing this is out is not always as easy as it appears, although

I'm

> willing for it to be. So that's the million dollar question for me

> right now.

>

> I also appreciate what Irene mentioned about the 3x5 card exercise

> from Steve's blog. I love the idea of that exercise, as I've always

> appreciated the Humanistic thrust of ACT which says there is

> tremendous value in our pain. " What if inside your pain there is a

> precious jewel? " I really appreciate and respect this premise. I

think

> it is potentially damaging and dismissive on a very natural

intuitive

> level to try ardently to squelch or avoid our experience, to

undermine

> our process, to dis-allow and accept all of ourselves. To try to

> split off and entirely rid ourselves of " character defects " or

faults

> (as though we could!). It seems this could be fragmenting and

> encourage a sort of duality of shame-based thinking and feeling that

> is not only artificial but very troublesome: bad/good, devil/angel,

> perfect/terrible and so forth. And even more to the point, there is

> are gems to be found in our pain--so let's hang with it long enough

to

> learn.

>

> I understand that life is not perfect, values are not perfect, and

we

> all often feel like we are missing the mark. But I'm just looking

like

> I said to move toward a freer, more flexible place from which to

> consider what I truly value in life. It occurs to me that perhaps I

> need to do more mindfullness and diffusion exercises to reach this

place.

>

> I also notice that the value areas in the book overlap in real

life.

> Sometimes things like spiritualiy and work and family and community

> and so forth converge--they aren't necessarily separate endeavors or

> categories.

>

> Anyway, thanks again as I muddle through this. It's good to know I'm

> not alone in this and I really appreciate everyone's feedback.

>

> Peace,

> Joanne

>

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > > Hi all,

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm having a difficult time discerning true valued

directions

> > as

> > > > > opposed to what Ive learned to care about in my childhood.

I

> > need

> > > > help

> > > > > in discovering that which I truly value as opposed to what

I

> > think I

> > > > > value based on my history.

> > > > >

> > > > > How do I know if I'm on the right track or I'm just choosing

> > > > > a valued direction that is predictable, comfortable,

> > acceptable?

> > > > What

> > > > > clues do I look for that something is truly a value?

> > > > >

> > > > > I really like the question in the book: " What would you do

if

> > no-one

> > > > > knew? " I guess that's the sort of gage I'm looking for. Are

> > there

> > > > any

> > > > > other exercises or questions along these lines that I may

want

> > to

> > > > play

> > > > > with?

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks in advance for any input!

> > > > >

> > > > > Peace,

> > > > > Joanne

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Jumping in here -

I think it's pretty clear that one of the major goals of ACT is to

enable more flexible behavior in the face of adverse thoughts and

feelings. All of the basic ACT materials say this. So "finding a freer

place from which to live our lives" sounds accurate.

Along those lines, here is a relevant quote from Steve s, talking

to an interviewer for New Harbinger (publisher of of "Get Out of Your

Mind and Into Your Life"): "In short, we teach people how to be more

flexible in moving toward what

they really want and less automatic, programmed, and self-defeating."

I find that when I get confused about different aspects of ACT, I do

well to go back to the source materials, especially the workbook. If I

still have questions then this group is a great resource.

Hi Joanne,

Yes the limits of the message board can be frustrating, and language

as we are finding out is definatly not or best friend.

Now I am not trying to argue, but this really needs to be discussed.

You wrote "It's my understanding one of the over-riding goals of ACT

is to ultimately find a freeer place from which to live our lives"

I really don't know if this is the goal of ACT at all. I believe the

only goal ACT has is that we are able to live our lives exactly as

they are right now, here in the present, without having to change

anything, or find anything. Because right now is all there is. To

recognize that thoughts, memories and the like are just that and

nothing else. That we can act on our values as they are right now,

without trying to change them. Without judgement of this is bad or

good. That we do not need to find anything.

Now it is true that for most, things do change while putting ACT into

practice, but that is just something that happens. It shouldn't be

something to work toward. Our values and goals, the way we approach

life may change as we implement ACT, but that is not the goal of ACT.

Accept your life exactly as it is right now, without trying to change

it, or get anywhere. Just learn to be.

Please anyone feel free to jump in and help clarify. Maybe I am way

off base, and would appreciate a healthy discussion on this topic.

Greg P

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hi all,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'm having a difficult time

discerning true valued

> > directions

> > > > as

> > > > > > > opposed to what Ive learned to care

about in my

childhood.

> > I

> > > > need

> > > > > > help

> > > > > > > in discovering that which I truly

value as opposed to

what

> > I

> > > > think I

> > > > > > > value based on my history.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > How do I know if I'm on the right

track or I'm just

choosing

> > > > > > > a valued direction that is

predictable, comfortable,

> > > > acceptable?

> > > > > > What

> > > > > > > clues do I look for that something

is truly a value?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I really like the question in the

book: "What would you

do

> > if

> > > > no-one

> > > > > > > knew?" I guess that's the sort of

gage I'm looking for.

Are

> > > > there

> > > > > > any

> > > > > > > other exercises or questions along

these lines that I

may

> > want

> > > > to

> > > > > > play

> > > > > > > with?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks in advance for any input!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Peace,

> > > > > > > Joanne

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Greg,

It sounds like you may have misunderstood what I'm getting at here.

I'm not sure what your mind is telling you about digging more holes

and I'm not sure what your mind has decided I'm trying to " figure

out " . I certainly don't expect to find any magical answers, and don't

feel a need to figure things out. But I do feel questions come up that

are worth hanging with, worth considering as we all move along on this

path.

I'm sorry if I was unclear. Perhaps I mis-phrased my question. It's

really quite simple. And yet I think it's an important one.

It's my understanding one of the over-riding goals of ACT is to

ultimately find a freeer place from which to live our lives. A greater

space or context of psychological flexibilty from which we are

choosing and living in an authentic fashion-- not in an old, worn out

knee-jerk primitive fashion. This is my intention too.

So in keeping with this ACT premise, I was asking for key exercises

and metaphors and suggestions that others have found helpful when

discerning a true valued direction over fused beliefs. (I notice that

I have many beliefs that might look,sound,feel and smell like a value,

but are anything but). So that's all I was asking.

I'm not looking for " a new strategy " as you mention here. But yes--I

am asking for tools to help accelerate movement toward identifying

true valued directions. (Which by the way, you did provide in both of

your previous posts, so thanks again). My life is too short to waste

time if I don't need to. My life is too important to keep running down

tunnels that don't provide cheese.

And as I said in my previous post, it is likely that as I practice

thought diffusion and mindfulness exercises, some of this quandry will

resolve itself. And as I also said, it strikes me that some of this

may just be about fine-tuning things a bit. A valued direction might

for example end up having it's roots as a fused belief but nonetheless

become identified as an authentic present-day identified value. Who

knows?! I'm open to anything.

I hope this clears up any misunderstanding about what I was asking.

Ah, such are the limits of language and the message board, huh?

Peace,

Joanne

-- In ACT_for_the_Public , " gregpeery "

wrote:

>

" I really like these as helpful questions to ask myself to begin to

> identify my true values. #6 feels important, but more like something I

> would ask myself after I identify a valued direction "

>

> That is correct. These are questions to ask after you have Identified

> a value. What would be wrong with identifying a value and then later

> realizing that it really isn't something you value?

>

> " I just want to get to a cleaner, freer place of choice where I am the

> chooser, not act from some old ancient memory of what I go kudos for

> long ago. What I learned would keep me safe and accepted as a child.

> Teasing this is out is not always as easy as it appears, although I'm

> willing for it to be. So that's the million dollar question for me

> right now. "

>

> I really understand that. That sounds like a great plan, makes a lot

> of sense. Work on getting to a place where you will be able to figure

> out what is important. Althought I am wondering, if this strategy has

> ever worked before? If it has, then great, keep working toward it. I

> really don't know, but if your experience has showed that doing this

> has never really helped in the past you may want to consider a

> different approach. It probably will work for you, I just know that

> type of approach has never worked for me. When ever I let my mind

> tell me stuff like that it turns out to be just another shovel I use

> to dig my way out of the hole.

>

> Please let me know when you find that place.

>

> Greg P

>

>

> ACT_for_the_Public , " hershjoanne " <jhersh@> wrote:

> >

> > Thanks Greg!

> >

> > Some more assorted thoughts about what both you and Irene have been

> > kind enough to take the time to write about:

> >

> > I really like these as helpful questions to ask myself to begin to

> > identify my true values. #6 feels important, but more like

> something I

> > would ask myself after I identify a valued direction--not before--it

> > feels like it falls into the: 'willingness to take the

> > plunge--committed to doing it'category found in Chapter 13.

> >

> > I recognize that just because I learned (and boy did I) that some

> > things are much more valuable than others as a child, it doesn't

> make

> > it invaluable.

> >

> > I just want to get to a cleaner, freer place of choice where I am

> the

> > chooser, not act from some old ancient memory of what I go kudos for

> > long ago. What I learned would keep me safe and accepted as a child.

> > Teasing this is out is not always as easy as it appears, although

> I'm

> > willing for it to be. So that's the million dollar question for me

> > right now.

> >

> > I also appreciate what Irene mentioned about the 3x5 card exercise

> > from Steve's blog. I love the idea of that exercise, as I've always

> > appreciated the Humanistic thrust of ACT which says there is

> > tremendous value in our pain. " What if inside your pain there is a

> > precious jewel? " I really appreciate and respect this premise. I

> think

> > it is potentially damaging and dismissive on a very natural

> intuitive

> > level to try ardently to squelch or avoid our experience, to

> undermine

> > our process, to dis-allow and accept all of ourselves. To try to

> > split off and entirely rid ourselves of " character defects " or

> faults

> > (as though we could!). It seems this could be fragmenting and

> > encourage a sort of duality of shame-based thinking and feeling that

> > is not only artificial but very troublesome: bad/good, devil/angel,

> > perfect/terrible and so forth. And even more to the point, there is

> > are gems to be found in our pain--so let's hang with it long enough

> to

> > learn.

> >

> > I understand that life is not perfect, values are not perfect, and

> we

> > all often feel like we are missing the mark. But I'm just looking

> like

> > I said to move toward a freer, more flexible place from which to

> > consider what I truly value in life. It occurs to me that perhaps I

> > need to do more mindfullness and diffusion exercises to reach this

> place.

> >

> > I also notice that the value areas in the book overlap in real

> life.

> > Sometimes things like spiritualiy and work and family and community

> > and so forth converge--they aren't necessarily separate endeavors or

> > categories.

> >

> > Anyway, thanks again as I muddle through this. It's good to know I'm

> > not alone in this and I really appreciate everyone's feedback.

> >

> > Peace,

> > Joanne

> >

> >

> >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hi all,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm having a difficult time discerning true valued

> directions

> > > as

> > > > > > opposed to what Ive learned to care about in my childhood.

> I

> > > need

> > > > > help

> > > > > > in discovering that which I truly value as opposed to what

> I

> > > think I

> > > > > > value based on my history.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > How do I know if I'm on the right track or I'm just choosing

> > > > > > a valued direction that is predictable, comfortable,

> > > acceptable?

> > > > > What

> > > > > > clues do I look for that something is truly a value?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I really like the question in the book: " What would you do

> if

> > > no-one

> > > > > > knew? " I guess that's the sort of gage I'm looking for. Are

> > > there

> > > > > any

> > > > > > other exercises or questions along these lines that I may

> want

> > > to

> > > > > play

> > > > > > with?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks in advance for any input!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Peace,

> > > > > > Joanne

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Joanne, maybe it would help to reread what

most recently said about values:

Fused values are not values at all.

Whenever values are chattery, hard to " figure out, "

heavy, conflicted ... we are dealing with mindy

substitutes

for a choice. Darn hard to talk about in a book ...

but in person it is

not that hard. You can feel it in the room when values

get fused.

Values are a chosen ongoing quality of action.

It is not that IT is important ... its closer to " out

of nothing

I choose to important about it. " [but even that, I do

not mean literally

" out of nothing " ]

Values are like choosing to play football or to play

baseball.

What you are playing at and for makes all the

difference ...

but done as a choice it is vitalizing -- as a game

might be.

What minds do with this is to turn it all into a rule

-- tantamount

to " playing " football under the threat of shooting all

of the losers

Another way to say it that has advanced often

and that really helps:

values are appetitive. They are positives. Shoulds and

musts and have tos are

effective by aversive control. That is 180 degrees

away from it.

When you beat yourself up for not living up to your

values you are undermining their very nature. Instead,

take a breath,

open your eyes, and get moving toward the pluses

instead of avoiding the minuses

So

What if no one could find out

What if it really is a choice

What if guilt and shame were irrelevant

What if you are whole and complete irregardless

What if it did not matter (IT was not important)

What would you choose to approach as a path or quality

.... something you

can never achieve as a static object ... in these

various domains?

- S

C.

Foundation Professor

Department of Psychology /298

University of Nevada

Reno, NV 89557-0062

--- hershjoanne wrote:

> Hi Greg,

>

> It sounds like you may have misunderstood what I'm

> getting at here.

>

> I'm not sure what your mind is telling you about

> digging more holes

> and I'm not sure what your mind has decided I'm

> trying to " figure

> out " . I certainly don't expect to find any magical

> answers, and don't

> feel a need to figure things out. But I do feel

> questions come up that

> are worth hanging with, worth considering as we all

> move along on this

> path.

>

> I'm sorry if I was unclear. Perhaps I mis-phrased my

> question. It's

> really quite simple. And yet I think it's an

> important one.

>

> It's my understanding one of the over-riding goals

> of ACT is to

> ultimately find a freeer place from which to live

> our lives. A greater

> space or context of psychological flexibilty from

> which we are

> choosing and living in an authentic fashion-- not in

> an old, worn out

> knee-jerk primitive fashion. This is my intention

> too.

>

> So in keeping with this ACT premise, I was asking

> for key exercises

> and metaphors and suggestions that others have found

> helpful when

> discerning a true valued direction over fused

> beliefs. (I notice that

> I have many beliefs that might look,sound,feel and

> smell like a value,

> but are anything but). So that's all I was asking.

>

> I'm not looking for " a new strategy " as you mention

> here. But yes--I

> am asking for tools to help accelerate movement

> toward identifying

> true valued directions. (Which by the way, you did

> provide in both of

> your previous posts, so thanks again). My life is

> too short to waste

> time if I don't need to. My life is too important to

> keep running down

> tunnels that don't provide cheese.

>

> And as I said in my previous post, it is likely that

> as I practice

> thought diffusion and mindfulness exercises, some of

> this quandry will

> resolve itself. And as I also said, it strikes me

> that some of this

> may just be about fine-tuning things a bit. A

> valued direction might

> for example end up having it's roots as a fused

> belief but nonetheless

> become identified as an authentic present-day

> identified value. Who

> knows?! I'm open to anything.

>

> I hope this clears up any misunderstanding about

> what I was asking.

> Ah, such are the limits of language and the message

> board, huh?

>

> Peace,

> Joanne

>

>

> -- In ACT_for_the_Public ,

> " gregpeery "

> wrote:

> >

> " I really like these as helpful questions to ask

> myself to begin to

> > identify my true values. #6 feels important, but

> more like something I

> > would ask myself after I identify a valued

> direction "

> >

> > That is correct. These are questions to ask after

> you have Identified

> > a value. What would be wrong with identifying a

> value and then later

> > realizing that it really isn't something you

> value?

> >

> > " I just want to get to a cleaner, freer place of

> choice where I am the

> > chooser, not act from some old ancient memory of

> what I go kudos for

> > long ago. What I learned would keep me safe and

> accepted as a child.

> > Teasing this is out is not always as easy as it

> appears, although I'm

> > willing for it to be. So that's the million

> dollar question for me

> > right now. "

> >

> > I really understand that. That sounds like a great

> plan, makes a lot

> > of sense. Work on getting to a place where you

> will be able to figure

> > out what is important. Althought I am wondering,

> if this strategy has

> > ever worked before? If it has, then great, keep

> working toward it. I

> > really don't know, but if your experience has

> showed that doing this

> > has never really helped in the past you may want

> to consider a

> > different approach. It probably will work for you,

> I just know that

> > type of approach has never worked for me. When

> ever I let my mind

> > tell me stuff like that it turns out to be just

> another shovel I use

> > to dig my way out of the hole.

> >

> > Please let me know when you find that place.

> >

> > Greg P

> >

> >

> > ACT_for_the_Public , " hershjoanne "

> <jhersh@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Thanks Greg!

> > >

> > > Some more assorted thoughts about what both you

> and Irene have been

> > > kind enough to take the time to write about:

> > >

> > > I really like these as helpful questions to ask

> myself to begin to

> > > identify my true values. #6 feels important, but

> more like

> > something I

> > > would ask myself after I identify a valued

> direction--not before--it

> > > feels like it falls into the: 'willingness to

> take the

> > > plunge--committed to doing it'category found in

> Chapter 13.

> > >

> > > I recognize that just because I learned (and boy

> did I) that some

> > > things are much more valuable than others as a

> child, it doesn't

> > make

> > > it invaluable.

> > >

> > > I just want to get to a cleaner, freer place of

> choice where I am

> > the

> > > chooser, not act from some old ancient memory of

> what I go kudos for

> > > long ago. What I learned would keep me safe and

> accepted as a child.

> > > Teasing this is out is not always as easy as it

> appears, although

> > I'm

> > > willing for it to be. So that's the million

> dollar question for me

> > > right now.

> > >

> > > I also appreciate what Irene mentioned about the

> 3x5 card exercise

> > > from Steve's blog. I love the idea of that

> exercise, as I've always

> > > appreciated the Humanistic thrust of ACT which

> says there is

> > > tremendous value in our pain. " What if inside

> your pain there is a

> > > precious jewel? " I really appreciate and respect

> this premise. I

> > think

> > > it is potentially damaging and dismissive on a

> very natural

> > intuitive

> > > level to try ardently to squelch or avoid our

> experience, to

> > undermine

> > > our process, to dis-allow and accept all of

> ourselves. To try to

> > > split off and entirely rid ourselves of

> " character defects " or

> > faults

> > > (as though we could!). It seems this could be

> fragmenting and

> > > encourage a sort of duality of shame-based

> thinking and feeling that

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Joanne,

Yes the limits of the message board can be frustrating, and language

as we are finding out is definatly not or best friend.

Now I am not trying to argue, but this really needs to be discussed.

You wrote " It's my understanding one of the over-riding goals of ACT

is to ultimately find a freeer place from which to live our lives "

I really don't know if this is the goal of ACT at all. I believe the

only goal ACT has is that we are able to live our lives exactly as

they are right now, here in the present, without having to change

anything, or find anything. Because right now is all there is. To

recognize that thoughts, memories and the like are just that and

nothing else. That we can act on our values as they are right now,

without trying to change them. Without judgement of this is bad or

good. That we do not need to find anything.

Now it is true that for most, things do change while putting ACT into

practice, but that is just something that happens. It shouldn't be

something to work toward. Our values and goals, the way we approach

life may change as we implement ACT, but that is not the goal of ACT.

Accept your life exactly as it is right now, without trying to change

it, or get anywhere. Just learn to be.

Please anyone feel free to jump in and help clarify. Maybe I am way

off base, and would appreciate a healthy discussion on this topic.

Greg P

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hi all,

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'm having a difficult time discerning true valued

> > directions

> > > > as

> > > > > > > opposed to what Ive learned to care about in my

childhood.

> > I

> > > > need

> > > > > > help

> > > > > > > in discovering that which I truly value as opposed to

what

> > I

> > > > think I

> > > > > > > value based on my history.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > How do I know if I'm on the right track or I'm just

choosing

> > > > > > > a valued direction that is predictable, comfortable,

> > > > acceptable?

> > > > > > What

> > > > > > > clues do I look for that something is truly a value?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I really like the question in the book: " What would you

do

> > if

> > > > no-one

> > > > > > > knew? " I guess that's the sort of gage I'm looking for.

Are

> > > > there

> > > > > > any

> > > > > > > other exercises or questions along these lines that I

may

> > want

> > > > to

> > > > > > play

> > > > > > > with?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks in advance for any input!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Peace,

> > > > > > > Joanne

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Ginny,

This is just beautiful. Thanks tons. I remember reading this from

Steve and thinking how lovely that was. I really like the momentum and

direction this suggests. It SO resonates. Will use it as a meditation

of sorts.

The truth is I'm not convinced anyone can ever really " tease out " what

was learned. What we learned cannot be un-learned anymore than we can

erase our memories. So in this regard, fused thoughts and beliefs and

values may find their way into our current valued directions, like it

or not. I may actually choose baseball because I had great times with

baseball as a child, and others applauded my performance. So does that

" fusion " or learned association in and of itself dissallow for or

undermine my current choosen value? No. But to the extent that I am

aware of this connection, I am more the chooser and less the fuser.

(Hey, cool rhyme!).

I suppose it's just a matter of degree. And looking for that feeling

of vitality and lightness, of appetitive positives-- as expressed here.

If others have concrete examples and feel comfortable sharing, I'd

love to hear some actual valued directions people have arrived at--

and if you have a sense of how you arrived there, how it's working for

you, I'd appreciate hearing the same.

Best to all!

Joanne

> > > >

> > > > Thanks Greg!

> > > >

> > > > Some more assorted thoughts about what both you

> > and Irene have been

> > > > kind enough to take the time to write about:

> > > >

> > > > I really like these as helpful questions to ask

> > myself to begin to

> > > > identify my true values. #6 feels important, but

> > more like

> > > something I

> > > > would ask myself after I identify a valued

> > direction--not before--it

> > > > feels like it falls into the: 'willingness to

> > take the

> > > > plunge--committed to doing it'category found in

> > Chapter 13.

> > > >

> > > > I recognize that just because I learned (and boy

> > did I) that some

> > > > things are much more valuable than others as a

> > child, it doesn't

> > > make

> > > > it invaluable.

> > > >

> > > > I just want to get to a cleaner, freer place of

> > choice where I am

> > > the

> > > > chooser, not act from some old ancient memory of

> > what I go kudos for

> > > > long ago. What I learned would keep me safe and

> > accepted as a child.

> > > > Teasing this is out is not always as easy as it

> > appears, although

> > > I'm

> > > > willing for it to be. So that's the million

> > dollar question for me

> > > > right now.

> > > >

> > > > I also appreciate what Irene mentioned about the

> > 3x5 card exercise

> > > > from Steve's blog. I love the idea of that

> > exercise, as I've always

> > > > appreciated the Humanistic thrust of ACT which

> > says there is

> > > > tremendous value in our pain. " What if inside

> > your pain there is a

> > > > precious jewel? " I really appreciate and respect

> > this premise. I

> > > think

> > > > it is potentially damaging and dismissive on a

> > very natural

> > > intuitive

> > > > level to try ardently to squelch or avoid our

> > experience, to

> > > undermine

> > > > our process, to dis-allow and accept all of

> > ourselves. To try to

> > > > split off and entirely rid ourselves of

> > " character defects " or

> > > faults

> > > > (as though we could!). It seems this could be

> > fragmenting and

> > > > encourage a sort of duality of shame-based

> > thinking and feeling that

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>