Guest guest Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 Right on! Here is were ACT can be very frustrating to the mind. ACT is purposly designed to be confusing and somewhat less then simple. If a metaphor doesn't make sense then sometimes it is better to just let it be what it is, then trying to figure it out. One of the biggest warnings Steve and others say is that when we think we start to "Get it" we are in a dangerous place. This goes for therapists as well as clients. So if we think we get it, that is a clear indication that we don't. Greg P *Hi, > Thanks-- I get everything you are saying! Nonetheless, I suppose my preference is for more clear and played out examples that don't leave me feeling as though I just left a Zen master with a puzzle to figure out. Mystery isn't always as glamorous as it appears in and of itself. I think this stuff is pretty simple ( I want to say accessible) as you say, and so I hope we work together to keep it that way. Joanne * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 I respectfully disagree. I don't think ACT is 'purposely designed to be confusing'. I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion. It can be experienced as confusing because it is certainly a different way of looking at and holding our lives. And the exercises challenge us in ways we are not used to being challenged. But there is no motive to "trip us up" or make this difficult as it were. The handbook was written to make ACT more accessible to all of us--less confusing, not more. As was this forum. And there is constant effort to come up with new metaphors and exercises and encouragement for us to invent our own--all in the spirit of bringing forth more clarity, not more confusion. I also disagree that if we "get it" on a gut level that this in itself means anything. Indeed, in ACT, the client's experience is the final arbiter. If the client has a an authentic felt experience that s/he is really "getting it" that is not to be second-guessed. There are genuine "aha" moments that happen, and this is a good thing! For example, I really get what the dogs meant in this metaphor. I hope you can accept that--but if you can't, oh well. The 'dangerous place' I think you are referring to is if we too quickly try to figure it all out, or get too smug or too attached to this ACT stuff. As in get the ACT tattoo and start speaking like you really know what you are saying. That's the danger--if we lose that humility and presume we know everything and we are "done". This dangerous place might also includes making assertions that ACT is 'purposely designed to be less than simple' and believing you are absolutely correct about this. On one level, one could argue it's actually very simple. Indeed, in my calmest moments, I really get how simple this stuff really is. It's just not something we are not accustomed to, and so our minds make it more complicated than it needs to be. Joanne gregpeery wrote: Here is were ACT can be very frustrating to the mind. ACT is purposly designed to be confusing and somewhat less then simple. If a metaphor doesn't make sense then sometimes it is better to just let it be what it is, then trying to figure it out. One of the biggest warnings Steve and others say is that when we think we start to "Get it" we are in a dangerous place. This goes for therapists as well as clients. So if we think we get it, that is a clear indication that we don't. Greg P > *Hi, > > Thanks-- I get everything you are saying! > > Nonetheless, I suppose my preference is for more clear and played out > examples that don't leave me feeling as though I just left a Zen master > with a puzzle to figure out. Mystery isn't always as glamorous as it > appears in and of itself. I think this stuff is pretty simple ( I want > to say accessible) as you say, and so I hope we work together to keep > it that way. > > Joanne > * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 Thank you Joanne for your post, very well put. I am getting a little frustrated lately as it seems to me that there is an increase of posts where people take other peoples posts apart and say that certain approaches or metaphors are dangerous or plain wrong. I thought this board was to support one another, and I personally take a lot from all the posts here, and I pick for myself what makes sense to me and question other things that don't make sense from my point of view - but the latter I make out with myself. I don't believe that there is this one ultimate truth and clearly every single person in this world is different from any other. So we all have our own approach to life and interpretation of ACT. For instance, I smiled (as many others) about EMs post about firing yourself and thought it was an awesome idea. And then it had to be taken apart. I actually think that by taking it apart and putting every word (or the word " fire " in this case) on the golden scale that that is the actual " language monster " that makes our lives so difficult at times. I am for a healthy discussion, don't get me wrong. But sometimes the discussions here get so theoretical and the emails get ripped apart and gnawed on to the bones that it doesn't seem that healthy anymore. I don't think that ACT is supposed to make life difficult and confusing, the workbook says in its title " Get out of your mind and into your life " . My hope that I put into ACT was to shut up the constant noise (thoughts) in my head and focus on the actual part of living my life instead of rather thinking about it. If I have to read my email 10 times before I can post it to make sure that I didn't use words or metaphors that may be " wrong " than what is the point of ACT? Where does that slow down the mind machine? Where does that give me the time and peace to leave my mind and enter my life? I think it is helpful to try and understand someone elses posts and asking questions about it in order to be able to learn and apply certain strategies to oneself. I am just really tired of the attacks and smashing of new ideas. I don't think ACT itself is frustrating to the mind as Greg P. put it, I think it is this digging for something wrong in someone elses ideas. This board is not meant to show how much we know about ACT or how many of the ACT books we've read or how much better we understand it than others and certainly not to patronize each other. I agree with what Greg said about sometimes letting a metaphor be what it is if you don't understand it rather than trying to figure it out - in order to not get caught up in the mind machine all over again. But other times you just want to understand, and then it is good to inquire. Only through curiousity do we expand ourselves and there is nothing wrong with an open mind. Sorry for this rant, I am experiencing a lot of noise in my head and on this board, and I am tired of constant ducking so I finally had to put my very own two cents in. Not as eloquent and moderate as Joanne, but still respectfully I am: off the soap box. Peace - Cosmo I respectfully disagree. I don't think ACT is 'purposely designed to be confusing'. I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion. It can be experienced as confusing because it is certainly a different way of looking at and holding our lives. And the exercises challenge us in ways we are not used to being challenged. But there is no motive to " trip us up " or make this difficult as it were. The handbook was written to make ACT more accessible to all of us--less confusing, not more. As was this forum. And there is constant effort to come up with new metaphors and exercises and encouragement for us to invent our own--all in the spirit of bringing forth more clarity, not more confusion. I also disagree that if we " get it " on a gut level that this in itself means anything. Indeed, in ACT, the client's experience is the final arbiter. If the client has a an authentic felt experience that s/he is really " getting it " that is not to be second-guessed. There are genuine " aha " moments that happen, and this is a good thing! For example, I really get what the dogs meant in this metaphor. I hope you can accept that--but if you can't, oh well. The 'dangerous place' I think you are referring to is if we too quickly try to figure it all out, or get too smug or too attached to this ACT stuff. As in get the ACT tattoo and start speaking like you really know what you are saying. That's the danger--if we lose that humility and presume we know everything and we are " done " . This dangerous place might also includes making assertions that ACT is 'purposely designed to be less than simple' and believing you are absolutely correct about this. On one level, one could argue it's actually very simple. Indeed, in my calmest moments, I really get how simple this stuff really is. It's just not something we are not accustomed to, and so our minds make it more complicated than it needs to be. Joanne gregpeery wrote: Here is were ACT can be very frustrating to the mind. ACT is purposly designed to be confusing and somewhat less then simple. If a metaphor doesn't make sense then sometimes it is better to just let it be what it is, then trying to figure it out. One of the biggest warnings Steve and others say is that when we think we start to " Get it " we are in a dangerous place. This goes for therapists as well as clients. So if we think we get it, that is a clear indication that we don't.Greg P> *Hi, >> Thanks-- I get everything you are saying!> > Nonetheless, I suppose my preference is for more clear and played out > examples that don't leave me feeling as though I just left a Zen master > with a puzzle to figure out. Mystery isn't always as glamorous as it > appears in and of itself. I think this stuff is pretty simple ( I want > to say accessible) as you say, and so I hope we work together to keep > it that way.> > Joanne> * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 Amen!!!! (!!!!!!) From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf OfCosmoSent: Friday, July 14, 2006 12:58 PMTo:ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Re: Re: Going to the dogs Thank you Joanne for your post, very well put. I am getting a little frustrated lately as it seems to me that there isan increase of posts where people take other peoples posts apart and saythat certain approaches or metaphors are dangerous or plain wrong. I thought this board was to support one another, and I personally take a lotfrom all the posts here, and I pick for myself what makes sense to me andquestion other things that don't make sense from my point of view - butthe latter I make out with myself. I don't believe that there is this one ultimate truth and clearly everysingle person in this world is different from any other. So we allhave our own approach to life and interpretation of ACT. For instance, I smiled (as many others) about EMs post about firingyourself and thought it was an awesome idea. And then it had to be takenapart. I actually think that by taking it apart and putting every word(or the word "fire" in this case) on the golden scale that that is theactual "language monster" that makes our lives so difficult attimes. I am for a healthy discussion, don't get me wrong. But sometimesthe discussions here get so theoretical and the emails get ripped apartand gnawed on to the bones that it doesn't seem that healthy anymore. Idon't think that ACT is supposed to make life difficult and confusing, theworkbook says in its title "Get out of your mind and into yourlife". My hope that I put into ACT was to shut up the constant noise (thoughts)in my head and focus on the actual part of living my life instead ofrather thinking about it. If I have to read my email 10 times before I can post it to makesure that I didn't use words or metaphors that may be "wrong" than whatis the point of ACT? Where does that slow down the mind machine? Where does that give me the time and peace to leave my mind andenter my life? I think it is helpful to try and understand someone elses posts andasking questions about it in order to be able to learn and apply certainstrategies to oneself. I am just really tired of theattacks and smashing of new ideas. I don't think ACT itself isfrustrating to the mind as Greg P. put it, I think it is this digging forsomething wrong in someone elses ideas. This board is not meant to showhow much we know about ACT or how many of the ACT books we've read or how muchbetter we understand it than others and certainly not to patronize eachother. I agree with what Greg said about sometimes letting a metaphorbe what it is if you don't understand it rather than trying to figure it out -in order to not get caught up in the mind machine all overagain. But other times you just want to understand, and then it isgood to inquire. Only through curiousity do we expand ourselves andthere is nothing wrong with an open mind. Sorry for this rant, I am experiencing a lot of noise in myhead and on this board, and I am tired of constant ducking so Ifinally had to put my very own two cents in. Not as eloquent and moderate as Joanne, but still respectfully I am: off the soap box. Peace - Cosmo On 7/14/06, JoanneHersh wrote: Irespectfully disagree. I don't think ACT is 'purposelydesigned to be confusing'. I'm not sure how you got to thatconclusion. It can be experienced as confusing because it is certainlya different way of looking at and holding our lives. And the exerciseschallenge us in ways we are not used to being challenged. But there isno motive to "trip us up" or make this difficult as it were. Thehandbook was written to make ACT more accessible to all of us--lessconfusing, not more. As was this forum. And there is constanteffort to come up with new metaphors and exercises and encouragement for usto invent our own--all in the spirit of bringing forth more clarity, notmore confusion. I also disagree that if we "get it" on a gut levelthat this in itself means anything. Indeed, in ACT, the client'sexperience is the final arbiter. If the client has a an authentic feltexperience that s/he is really "getting it" that is not to besecond-guessed. There are genuine "aha" moments that happen, and thisis a good thing! For example, I really get what the dogs meant in thismetaphor. I hope you can accept that--but if you can't, oh well. The'dangerous place' I think you are referring to is if we too quickly try tofigure it all out, or get too smug or too attached to this ACT stuff. As in get the ACT tattoo and start speaking like you really know whatyou are saying. That's the danger--if we lose that humility andpresume we know everything and we are "done". Thisdangerous place might also includes making assertions that ACT is'purposely designed to be less than simple' and believing you are absolutelycorrect about this. On one level, one could argue it's actually verysimple. Indeed, in my calmest moments, I really get how simple thisstuff really is. It's just not something we are not accustomed to,and so our minds make it more complicated than it needs to be. Joanne gregpeery wrote: Here is were ACT can be very frustrating to the mind. ACT is purposlydesigned to be confusing and somewhat less then simple. If a metaphordoesn't make sense then sometimes it is better to just let it be whatit is, then trying to figure it out. One of the biggestwarnings Steve and others say is that when we think we start to "Getit" we are in a dangerous place. This goes for therapists as well asclients. So if we think we get it, that is a clear indication that wedon't.Greg P> *Hi,>> Thanks-- I get everything you are saying!>> Nonetheless, I suppose my preference is for more clear and playedout > examples that don't leave me feeling as though I justleft a Zen master > with a puzzle to figure out. Mystery isn'talways as glamorous as it > appears in and of itself. I thinkthis stuff is pretty simple ( I want > to say accessible) asyou say, and so I hope we work together to keep > it thatway.> > Joanne>* _____________________________________________________________________________________ The information contained in this email may be confidential and/or legally privileged. It has been sent for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). 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Guest guest Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 I do think that has been a slight change in tone and I've noticed it on the professional ACT list serve as well. That kind of thing seems to be most likely initially with frequent, rapid fire posts because it is harder to be mindful in that context. My suggestion to folks who post very regularly in particular: sit with your reactions a bit longer. And then mindfully post. Just a gentle suggestion from the middle of the night in the middle of the South China Sea - S Steve Quoting Cosmo : > Thank you Joanne for your post, very well put. > > I am getting a little frustrated lately as it seems to me that there is an > increase of posts where people take other peoples posts apart and say that > certain approaches or metaphors are dangerous or plain wrong. I thought > this board was to support one another, and I personally take a lot from all > the posts here, and I pick for myself what makes sense to me and question > other things that don't make sense from my point of view - but the latter I > make out with myself. > > I don't believe that there is this one ultimate truth and clearly every > single person in this world is different from any other. So we all have our > own approach to life and interpretation of ACT. > For instance, I smiled (as many others) about EMs post about firing yourself > and thought it was an awesome idea. And then it had to be taken apart. I > actually think that by taking it apart and putting every word (or the word > " fire " in this case) on the golden scale that that is the actual " language > monster " that makes our lives so difficult at times. > I am for a healthy discussion, don't get me wrong. But sometimes the > discussions here get so theoretical and the emails get ripped apart and > gnawed on to the bones that it doesn't seem that healthy anymore. I don't > think that ACT is supposed to make life difficult and confusing, the > workbook says in its title " Get *out of your mind* and into your life " . > > My hope that I put into ACT was to shut up the constant noise (thoughts) in > my head and focus on the actual part of *living* my life instead of rather > thinking about it. > If I have to read my email 10 times before I can post it to make sure that I > didn't use words or metaphors that may be " wrong " than what is the point of > ACT? Where does that slow down the mind machine? Where does that give me > the time and peace to leave my mind and enter my life? > > I think it is helpful to try and understand someone elses posts and asking > questions about it in order to be able to learn and apply certain strategies > to oneself. I am just really tired of the attacks and smashing of new > ideas. I don't think *ACT* itself is frustrating to the mind as Greg P. put > it, I think it is this digging for something wrong in someone elses ideas. > This board is not meant to show how much we know about ACT or how many of > the ACT books we've read or how much better we understand it than others and > certainly not to patronize each other. > > I agree with what Greg said about sometimes letting a metaphor be what it is > if you don't understand it rather than trying to figure it out - in order to > not get caught up in the mind machine all over again. But other times you > just want to understand, and then it is good to inquire. Only through > curiousity do we expand ourselves and there is nothing wrong with an open > mind. > > Sorry for this rant, I am experiencing a lot of noise in my head and on this > board, and I am tired of constant ducking so I finally had to put my very > own two cents in. > > Not as eloquent and moderate as Joanne, but still respectfully I am: > off the soap box. > > Peace - Cosmo > > > > >> >> *I respectfully disagree. I don't think ACT is 'purposely designed to be >> confusing'. I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion. It can be >> experienced as confusing because it is certainly a different way of looking >> at and holding our lives. And the exercises challenge us in ways we are not >> used to being challenged. But there is no motive to " trip us up " or make >> this difficult as it were. The handbook was written to make ACT more >> accessible to all of us--less confusing, not more. As was this forum. And >> there is constant effort to come up with new metaphors and exercises and >> encouragement for us to invent our own--all in the spirit of bringing forth >> more clarity, not more confusion. >> >> I also disagree that if we " get it " on a gut level that this in itself >> means anything. Indeed, in ACT, the client's experience is the final >> arbiter. If the client has a an authentic felt experience that s/he is >> really " getting it " that is not to be second-guessed. There are genuine >> " aha " moments that happen, and this is a good thing! For example, I really >> get what the dogs meant in this metaphor. I hope you can accept that--but if >> you can't, oh well. >> >> The 'dangerous place' I think you are referring to is if we too quickly >> try to figure it all out, or get too smug or too attached to this ACT stuff. >> As in get the ACT tattoo and start speaking like you really know what you >> are saying. That's the danger--if we lose that humility and presume we know >> everything and we are " done " . >> >> This dangerous place might also includes making assertions that ACT is >> 'purposely designed to be less than simple' and believing you are absolutely >> correct about this. On one level, one could argue it's actually very >> simple. Indeed, in my calmest moments, I really get how simple this stuff >> really is. It's just not something we are not accustomed to, and so our >> minds make it more complicated than it needs to be. >> >> >> Joanne >> * >> >> >> gregpeery wrote: >> >> Here is were ACT can be very frustrating to the mind. ACT is purposly >> designed to be confusing and somewhat less then simple. If a metaphor >> doesn't make sense then sometimes it is better to just let it be what >> it is, then trying to figure it out. >> >> One of the biggest warnings Steve and others say is that when we >> think we start to " Get it " we are in a dangerous place. This goes for >> therapists as well as clients. So if we think we get it, that is a >> clear indication that we don't. >> >> Greg P >> >> >> >>> *Hi, >>> >>> Thanks-- I get everything you are saying! >>> >>> Nonetheless, I suppose my preference is for more clear and played >> out >>> examples that don't leave me feeling as though I just left a Zen >> master >>> with a puzzle to figure out. Mystery isn't always as glamorous as >> it >>> appears in and of itself. I think this stuff is pretty simple ( I >> want >>> to say accessible) as you say, and so I hope we work together to >> keep >>> it that way. >>> >>> Joanne >>> * >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 Thanks Cosmo. I appreciate your sensitive and bold comments. I too feel a sense of un-necessary contrariness that sometimes steps forward. My hope is that we all move away from the rush to dismiss what another shares as valuable or workable. I know I too do this at times too, and I would be dishonest if I said I didn't. I think perhaps important distinctions might be made here: I agree it is helpful to sit with a metaphor for a while, kind of let it mull over and move through you. You may be surprised as you do this with what results. Similarly, I also feel that coming up with one's own metaphors is helpful and indicated. One does not negate the other. We have room to do both. Coming up with one's own metaphors is a welcomed and refreshing thing to see from where I stand--it's about being passionate about this work and taking a proactive role in creating symbolism that moves me forward. It doesn't necessarily imply resistance or any other pathological assumption. As I understand it, the spirit of ACT aspires to empowers and encourages the client to do just this, acknowledging that not all language or metaphors works for all of us in the same way. I'm sure Steve didn't take it personally when I said that the cliff and parachute metaphor didn't quite cut it for me. We each find what works for us. Indeed, this was/ is a lovely and apropos image he threw out there as an example toward freeing ourselves up in the interest of getting unstuck from that "willingness dial'. One that he took the time from a boat in Vietnam to share--talk about willingness! Another distinction: Asking for clarification is not the same as "trying to figure it all out". It's just asking for clarification. We all speak differently, see things differently, hear and learn differently. So asking for clarification and examples in my view is not only appropriate, but it's healthy. Again, it speaks to desire to stay on the same page, not necessarily anything else. We need to feel the spirit of free inquiry here without precipitously feeling dismissed. If not, we will feel reticent to reveal ourselves with one another. I certainly hope we have enough room for many paths and styles to emerge as we wiggle our way through this stuff. Let's try to remember we are all in the same boat. (Well, not a boat in Vietnam, but you get what I'm saying). To one degree or another we are all suffering or we would not be here. Peace, Joanne Cosmo wrote: Thank you Joanne for your post, very well put. I am getting a little frustrated lately as it seems to me that there is an increase of posts where people take other peoples posts apart and say that certain approaches or metaphors are dangerous or plain wrong. I thought this board was to support one another, and I personally take a lot from all the posts here, and I pick for myself what makes sense to me and question other things that don't make sense from my point of view - but the latter I make out with myself. I don't believe that there is this one ultimate truth and clearly every single person in this world is different from any other. So we all have our own approach to life and interpretation of ACT. For instance, I smiled (as many others) about EMs post about firing yourself and thought it was an awesome idea. And then it had to be taken apart. I actually think that by taking it apart and putting every word (or the word "fire" in this case) on the golden scale that that is the actual "language monster" that makes our lives so difficult at times. I am for a healthy discussion, don't get me wrong. But sometimes the discussions here get so theoretical and the emails get ripped apart and gnawed on to the bones that it doesn't seem that healthy anymore. I don't think that ACT is supposed to make life difficult and confusing, the workbook says in its title "Get out of your mind and into your life". My hope that I put into ACT was to shut up the constant noise (thoughts) in my head and focus on the actual part of living my life instead of rather thinking about it. If I have to read my email 10 times before I can post it to make sure that I didn't use words or metaphors that may be "wrong" than what is the point of ACT? Where does that slow down the mind machine? Where does that give me the time and peace to leave my mind and enter my life? I think it is helpful to try and understand someone elses posts and asking questions about it in order to be able to learn and apply certain strategies to oneself. I am just really tired of the attacks and smashing of new ideas. I don't think ACT itself is frustrating to the mind as Greg P. put it, I think it is this digging for something wrong in someone elses ideas. This board is not meant to show how much we know about ACT or how many of the ACT books we've read or how much better we understand it than others and certainly not to patronize each other. I agree with what Greg said about sometimes letting a metaphor be what it is if you don't understand it rather than trying to figure it out - in order to not get caught up in the mind machine all over again. But other times you just want to understand, and then it is good to inquire. Only through curiousity do we expand ourselves and there is nothing wrong with an open mind. Sorry for this rant, I am experiencing a lot of noise in my head and on this board, and I am tired of constant ducking so I finally had to put my very own two cents in. Not as eloquent and moderate as Joanne, but still respectfully I am: off the soap box. Peace - Cosmo On 7/14/06, Joanne Hersh wrote: I respectfully disagree. I don't think ACT is 'purposely designed to be confusing'. I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion. It can be experienced as confusing because it is certainly a different way of looking at and holding our lives. And the exercises challenge us in ways we are not used to being challenged. But there is no motive to "trip us up" or make this difficult as it were. The handbook was written to make ACT more accessible to all of us--less confusing, not more. As was this forum. And there is constant effort to come up with new metaphors and exercises and encouragement for us to invent our own--all in the spirit of bringing forth more clarity, not more confusion. I also disagree that if we "get it" on a gut level that this in itself means anything. Indeed, in ACT, the client's experience is the final arbiter. If the client has a an authentic felt experience that s/he is really "getting it" that is not to be second-guessed. There are genuine "aha" moments that happen, and this is a good thing! For example, I really get what the dogs meant in this metaphor. I hope you can accept that--but if you can't, oh well. The 'dangerous place' I think you are referring to is if we too quickly try to figure it all out, or get too smug or too attached to this ACT stuff. As in get the ACT tattoo and start speaking like you really know what you are saying. That's the danger--if we lose that humility and presume we know everything and we are "done". This dangerous place might also includes making assertions that ACT is 'purposely designed to be less than simple' and believing you are absolutely correct about this. On one level, one could argue it's actually very simple. Indeed, in my calmest moments, I really get how simple this stuff really is. It's just not something we are not accustomed to, and so our minds make it more complicated than it needs to be. Joanne gregpeery wrote: Here is were ACT can be very frustrating to the mind. ACT is purposly designed to be confusing and somewhat less then simple. If a metaphor doesn't make sense then sometimes it is better to just let it be what it is, then trying to figure it out. One of the biggest warnings Steve and others say is that when we think we start to "Get it" we are in a dangerous place. This goes for therapists as well as clients. So if we think we get it, that is a clear indication that we don't. Greg P > *Hi, > > Thanks-- I get everything you are saying! > > Nonetheless, I suppose my preference is for more clear and played out > examples that don't leave me feeling as though I just left a Zen master > with a puzzle to figure out. Mystery isn't always as glamorous as it > appears in and of itself. I think this stuff is pretty simple ( I want > to say accessible) as you say, and so I hope we work together to keep > it that way. > > Joanne > * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 And I couldn't have said it anywhere near as eloquently asyou Cosmo. In fact you put into words what I've been feeling and thinkinglately that I wasn't able to verbalize. In fact, and this is kind ofanother subject (me!), I initially thought with ACT that I was at a disadvantagebecause I don't seem to think in words very coherently. I don't know ifit's from all the drugs I abused or that I'm going through perimenopause or whatbut most the time it seems like just a bunch of nonsensical gobbledygook goingon up there. And many of the earlier exercise in the book are defusiontechniques such as "I'm having the thought that..." or putting your thoughts onleaves or saying them over and over or whatever. And I couldn't figure outhow to do that with the nonsense that was going on in my head. And I knowthat I can probably root out some thoughts if I really pay attention, but isn'tthat the opposite of defusion? Lately thoughwith all the recent posts I've been reading I almost feel like I'm at anadvantage. Because I don't find myself analyzing or thinking about thisall that much I just try to observe the passing parade of garbage and then bringmy awareness back to the present. It's almost easier to detach from itwhen it doesn't make sense, does this make sense? Anyway, thanks so muchfor your post. From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf OfCosmoSent: Friday, July 14, 2006 12:58 PMTo:ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Re: Re: Going to the dogs Thank you Joanne for your post, very well put. I am getting a little frustrated lately as it seems to me that there isan increase of posts where people take other peoples posts apart and saythat certain approaches or metaphors are dangerous or plain wrong. I thought this board was to support one another, and I personally take a lotfrom all the posts here, and I pick for myself what makes sense to me andquestion other things that don't make sense from my point of view - butthe latter I make out with myself. I don't believe that there is this one ultimate truth and clearly everysingle person in this world is different from any other. So we allhave our own approach to life and interpretation of ACT. For instance, I smiled (as many others) about EMs post about firingyourself and thought it was an awesome idea. And then it had to be takenapart. I actually think that by taking it apart and putting every word(or the word "fire" in this case) on the golden scale that that is theactual "language monster" that makes our lives so difficult attimes. I am for a healthy discussion, don't get me wrong. But sometimesthe discussions here get so theoretical and the emails get ripped apartand gnawed on to the bones that it doesn't seem that healthy anymore. Idon't think that ACT is supposed to make life difficult and confusing, theworkbook says in its title "Get out of your mind and into yourlife". My hope that I put into ACT was to shut up the constant noise (thoughts)in my head and focus on the actual part of living my life instead ofrather thinking about it. If I have to read my email 10 times before I can post it to makesure that I didn't use words or metaphors that may be "wrong" than whatis the point of ACT? Where does that slow down the mind machine? Where does that give me the time and peace to leave my mind andenter my life? I think it is helpful to try and understand someone elses posts andasking questions about it in order to be able to learn and apply certainstrategies to oneself. I am just really tired of theattacks and smashing of new ideas. I don't think ACT itself isfrustrating to the mind as Greg P. put it, I think it is this digging forsomething wrong in someone elses ideas. This board is not meant to showhow much we know about ACT or how many of the ACT books we've read or how muchbetter we understand it than others and certainly not to patronize eachother. I agree with what Greg said about sometimes letting a metaphorbe what it is if you don't understand it rather than trying to figure it out -in order to not get caught up in the mind machine all overagain. But other times you just want to understand, and then it isgood to inquire. Only through curiousity do we expand ourselves andthere is nothing wrong with an open mind. Sorry for this rant, I am experiencing a lot of noise in myhead and on this board, and I am tired of constant ducking so Ifinally had to put my very own two cents in. Not as eloquent and moderate as Joanne, but still respectfully I am: off the soap box. Peace - Cosmo On 7/14/06, JoanneHersh wrote: Irespectfully disagree. I don't think ACT is 'purposelydesigned to be confusing'. I'm not sure how you got to thatconclusion. It can be experienced as confusing because it is certainlya different way of looking at and holding our lives. And the exerciseschallenge us in ways we are not used to being challenged. But there isno motive to "trip us up" or make this difficult as it were. Thehandbook was written to make ACT more accessible to all of us--lessconfusing, not more. As was this forum. And there is constanteffort to come up with new metaphors and exercises and encouragement for usto invent our own--all in the spirit of bringing forth more clarity, notmore confusion. I also disagree that if we "get it" on a gut levelthat this in itself means anything. Indeed, in ACT, the client'sexperience is the final arbiter. If the client has a an authentic feltexperience that s/he is really "getting it" that is not to besecond-guessed. There are genuine "aha" moments that happen, and thisis a good thing! For example, I really get what the dogs meant in thismetaphor. I hope you can accept that--but if you can't, oh well. The'dangerous place' I think you are referring to is if we too quickly try tofigure it all out, or get too smug or too attached to this ACT stuff. As in get the ACT tattoo and start speaking like you really know whatyou are saying. That's the danger--if we lose that humility andpresume we know everything and we are "done". Thisdangerous place might also includes making assertions that ACT is'purposely designed to be less than simple' and believing you are absolutelycorrect about this. On one level, one could argue it's actually verysimple. Indeed, in my calmest moments, I really get how simple thisstuff really is. It's just not something we are not accustomed to,and so our minds make it more complicated than it needs to be. Joanne gregpeery wrote: Here is were ACT can be very frustrating to the mind. ACT is purposlydesigned to be confusing and somewhat less then simple. If a metaphordoesn't make sense then sometimes it is better to just let it be whatit is, then trying to figure it out. One of the biggestwarnings Steve and others say is that when we think we start to "Getit" we are in a dangerous place. This goes for therapists as well asclients. So if we think we get it, that is a clear indication that wedon't.Greg P> *Hi,>> Thanks-- I get everything you are saying!>> Nonetheless, I suppose my preference is for more clear and playedout > examples that don't leave me feeling as though I justleft a Zen master > with a puzzle to figure out. Mystery isn'talways as glamorous as it > appears in and of itself. I thinkthis stuff is pretty simple ( I want > to say accessible) asyou say, and so I hope we work together to keep > it thatway.> > Joanne>* _____________________________________________________________________________________ The information contained in this email may be confidential and/or legally privileged. It has been sent for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). If the reader of this message is not an intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication, or any of its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. To contact our email administrator directly, send to postmaster@... Thank you. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 Well, since I've already gone to the dogs and back, I just want to say that I really appreciate this less analytical and more intuitive approach. I certainly don't want to think that my "mission" is to get it all, lol; I'll settle for even a little. As someone who is new to ACT, and new to this list, I mostly just lurk and hope to absorb some of the insights and interpretations that are so richly put forth here. It does deepen my understanding of the book, since my monkey mind is totally drawn to analogies and sometimes one will evade me, and somebody else just rephrasing it, or demonstrating an application is all I need to get the aha and then I can drop that valuable nugget in my pocket and carry it with me all day, savoring the concept. While I am all for getting out of my mind when it is chattering away, or distracting me from living, I am all FOR getting into my mind when it is able to wrap itself around a concept that just blows the clutter away. I wish I could contribute more, and someday when this has percolated a bit deeper into my consciousness, maybe I will. Until then I will be on the sidelines gratefully reading, and yes, re-reading, the discussion. - Goldie "To cover all the earth with sheets of hide -- Where could such amounts of skin be found? But simply wrap some leather around your own feet, And it's as if the whole earth had been covered!" -Shantideva (Love the way that dude rolled! -Goldie)Joanne Hersh wrote: *Thanks Cosmo. I appreciate your sensitive and bold comments. I too feel a sense of un-necessary contrariness that sometimes steps forward. My hope is that we all move away from the rush to dismiss what another shares as valuable or workable. ** I know I too do this at times too, and I would be dishonest if I said I didn't. * *I think perhaps **important distinctions might be made here: **I agree it is helpful to sit with a metaphor for a while, kind of let it mull over and move through you. You may be surprised as you do this with what results. Similarly, I also feel that **coming up with one's own metaphors is helpful and indicated. ** One does not negate the other. We have room to do both. **Coming up with one's own metaphors is a welcomed and refreshing thing to see from where I stand--it's about being** passionate about this work and taking a proactive role in creating symbolism that moves me forward. It doesn't necessarily imply resistance or any other pathological assumption.* *As I understand it, the spirit of ACT aspires to empowers and encourages the client to do just this, acknowledging that not all language or metaphors works for all of us in the same way. **I'm sure Steve didn't take it personally when I said that the cliff and parachute metaphor didn't quite cut it for me. We each find what works for us. Indeed, this was/ is ** a lovely and apropos image he threw out there as an example toward freeing ourselves up in the interest of getting unstuck from that "willingness dial'.* *One that he took the time from a boat in Vietnam to share--talk about willingness!**Another distinction: **Asking for clarification is not the same as "trying to figure it all out". It's just asking for clarification. We all speak differently, see things differently, hear and learn differently. So asking for clarification and examples in my view is not only appropriate, but it's healthy. * *Again, it speaks to desire to stay on the same page, not necessarily anything else. We need to feel the spirit of free inquiry here without precipitously feeling dismissed. If not, we will feel reticent to reveal ourselves with one another. ****I certainly hope we have enough room for many paths and styles to emerge as we wiggle our way through this stuff. Let's try to remember we are all in the same boat. (Well, not a boat in Vietnam, but you get what I'm saying). To one degree or another we are all suffering or we would not be here. Peace,**Joanne*Cosmo wrote:> Thank you Joanne for your post, very well put.> > I am getting a little frustrated lately as it seems to me that there > is an increase of posts where people take other peoples posts apart > and say that certain approaches or metaphors are dangerous or plain > wrong. I thought this board was to support one another, and I > personally take a lot from all the posts here, and I pick for myself > what makes sense to me and question other things that don't make sense > from my point of view - but the latter I make out with myself. > > I don't believe that there is this one ultimate truth and clearly > every single person in this world is different from any other. So we > all have our own approach to life and interpretation of ACT.> For instance, I smiled (as many others) about EMs post about firing > yourself and thought it was an awesome idea. And then it had to be > taken apart. I actually think that by taking it apart and putting > every word (or the word "fire" in this case) on the golden scale that > that is the actual "language monster" that makes our lives > so difficult at times.> I am for a healthy discussion, don't get me wrong. But sometimes the > discussions here get so theoretical and the emails get ripped apart > and gnawed on to the bones that it doesn't seem that healthy anymore. > I don't think that ACT is supposed to make life difficult and > confusing, the workbook says in its title "Get _out of your mind_ and > into your life". > > My hope that I put into ACT was to shut up the constant noise > (thoughts) in my head and focus on the actual part of _living_ my life > instead of rather thinking about it.> If I have to read my email 10 times before I can post it to make sure > that I didn't use words or metaphors that may be "wrong" than what is > the point of ACT? Where does that slow down the mind machine? Where > does that give me the time and peace to leave my mind and enter my life?> > I think it is helpful to try and understand someone elses posts and > asking questions about it in order to be able to learn and apply > certain strategies to oneself. I am just really tired of the attacks > and smashing of new ideas. I don't think _ACT_ itself is frustrating > to the mind as Greg P. put it, I think it is this digging for > something wrong in someone elses ideas. This board is not meant to > show how much we know about ACT or how many of the ACT books we've > read or how much better we understand it than others and certainly not > to patronize each other. > > I agree with what Greg said about sometimes letting a metaphor be what > it is if you don't understand it rather than trying to figure it out - > in order to not get caught up in the mind machine all over again. But > other times you just want to understand, and then it is good to > inquire. Only through curiousity do we expand ourselves and there is > nothing wrong with an open mind.> > Sorry for this rant, I am experiencing a lot of noise in my head and > on this board, and I am tired of constant ducking so I finally had to > put my very own two cents in.> > Not as eloquent and moderate as Joanne, but still respectfully I am:> off the soap box.> > Peace - Cosmo >>> > >> *I respectfully disagree. I don't think ACT is _/'purposely/_> designed to be confusing'. I'm not sure how you got to that> conclusion. It can be experienced as confusing because it is> certainly a different way of looking at and holding our lives. > And the exercises challenge us in ways we are not used to being> challenged. But there is no motive to "trip us up" or make this> difficult as it were. The handbook was written to make ACT more> accessible to all of us--less confusing, not more. As was this> forum. And there is constant effort to come up with new> metaphors and exercises and encouragement for us to invent our> own--all in the spirit of bringing forth more clarity, not more> confusion.>> I also disagree that if we "get it" on a gut level that this in> itself means anything. Indeed, in ACT, the client's experience is> the final arbiter. If the client has a an authentic felt> experience that s/he is really "getting it" that is not to be> second-guessed. There are genuine "aha" moments that happen, and> this is a good thing! For example, I really get what the dogs> meant in this metaphor. I hope you can accept that--but if you> can't, oh well.>> The 'dangerous place' I think you are referring to is if we too> quickly try to figure it all out, or get too smug or too attached> to this ACT stuff. As in get the ACT tattoo and start speaking> like you really know what you are saying. That's the danger--if> we lose that humility and presume we know everything and we are> "done". >> This dangerous place might also includes making assertions that> ACT is 'purposely designed to be less than simple' and believing> you are absolutely correct about this. On one level, one could> argue it's actually very simple. Indeed, in my calmest moments, I> really get how simple this stuff really is. It's just not> something we are not accustomed to, and so our minds make it more> complicated than it needs to be. > *>> Joanne>>> gregpeery wrote:>>> Here is were ACT can be very frustrating to the mind. ACT is>> purposly>> designed to be confusing and somewhat less then simple. If a>> metaphor>> doesn't make sense then sometimes it is better to just let it be>> what>> it is, then trying to figure it out.>>>> One of the biggest warnings Steve and others say is that when we>> think we start to "Get it" we are in a dangerous place. This goes>> for>> therapists as well as clients. So if we think we get it, that is a>> clear indication that we don't.>>>> Greg P>>>> >>>>> *Hi,>>>>>> Thanks-- I get everything you are saying!>>>>>> Nonetheless, I suppose my preference is for more clear and played>> out>>> examples that don't leave me feeling as though I just left a Zen>> master>>> with a puzzle to figure out. Mystery isn't always as glamorous as>> it>>> appears in and of itself. I think this stuff is pretty simple ( I>> want>>> to say accessible) as you say, and so I hope we work together to>> keep>>> it that way.>>>>>> Joanne>>> *>>>>> Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 While I am all for getting out of my mind when it is chattering away, or distracting me from living, I am all FOR getting into my mind when it is able to wrap itself around a concept that just blows the clutter away. Very amazing sentence. Psychological Flexibility at it's best! Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Why conjure complication or pathology when it simply doesn't exist? Ah, but I suppose that's often the risk we run into when exploring ourselves. Hoping you'll jump in from the sidelines as you see fit, Joanne Goldie Locks wrote: Well, since I've already gone to the dogs and back, I just want to say that I really appreciate this less analytical and more intuitive approach. I certainly don't want to think that my "mission" is to get it all, lol; I'll settle for even a little. As someone who is new to ACT, and new to this list, I mostly just lurk and hope to absorb some of the insights and interpretations that are so richly put forth here. It does deepen my understanding of the book, since my monkey mind is totally drawn to analogies and sometimes one will evade me, and somebody else just rephrasing it, or demonstrating an application is all I need to get the aha and then I can drop that valuable nugget in my pocket and carry it with me all day, savoring the concept. While I am all for getting out of my mind when it is chattering away, or distracting me from living, I am all FOR getting into my mind when it is able to wrap itself around a concept that just blows the clutter away. I wish I could contribute more, and someday when this has percolated a bit deeper into my consciousness, maybe I will. Until then I will be on the sidelines gratefully reading, and yes, re-reading, the discussion. - Goldie "To cover all the earth with sheets of hide -- Where could such amounts of skin be found? But simply wrap some leather around your own feet, And it's as if the whole earth had been covered!" -Shantideva (Love the way that dude rolled! -Goldie) Joanne Hersh wrote: *Thanks Cosmo. I appreciate your sensitive and bold comments. I too feel a sense of un-necessary contrariness that sometimes steps forward. My hope is that we all move away from the rush to dismiss what another shares as valuable or workable. ** I know I too do this at times too, and I would be dishonest if I said I didn't. * *I think perhaps **important distinctions might be made here: **I agree it is helpful to sit with a metaphor for a while, kind of let it mull over and move through you. You may be surprised as you do this with what results. Similarly, I also feel that **coming up with one's own metaphors is helpful and indicated. ** One does not negate the other. We have room to do both. **Coming up with one's own metaphors is a welcomed and refreshing thing to see from where I stand--it's about being** passionate about this work and taking a proactive role in creating symbolism that moves me forward. It doesn't necessarily imply resistance or any other pathological assumption.* *As I understand it, the spirit of ACT aspires to empowers and encourages the client to do just this, acknowledging that not all language or metaphors works for all of us in the same way. * *I'm sure Steve didn't take it personally when I said that the cliff and parachute metaphor didn't quite cut it for me. We each find what works for us. Indeed, this was/ is ** a lovely and apropos image he threw out there as an example toward freeing ourselves up in the interest of getting unstuck from that "willingness dial'.* *One that he took the time from a boat in Vietnam to share--talk about willingness!** Another distinction: **Asking for clarification is not the same as "trying to figure it all out". It's just asking for clarification. We all speak differently, see things differently, hear and learn differently. So asking for clarification and examples in my view is not only appropriate, but it's healthy. * *Again, it speaks to desire to stay on the same page, not necessarily anything else. We need to feel the spirit of free inquiry here without precipitously feeling dismissed. If not, we will feel reticent to reveal ourselves with one another. ** ** I certainly hope we have enough room for many paths and styles to emerge as we wiggle our way through this stuff. Let's try to remember we are all in the same boat. (Well, not a boat in Vietnam, but you get what I'm saying). To one degree or another we are all suffering or we would not be here. Peace, **Joanne * Cosmo wrote: > Thank you Joanne for your post, very well put. > > I am getting a little frustrated lately as it seems to me that there > is an increase of posts where people take other peoples posts apart > and say that certain approaches or metaphors are dangerous or plain > wrong. I thought this board was to support one another, and I > personally take a lot from all the posts here, and I pick for myself > what makes sense to me and question other things that don't make sense > from my point of view - but the latter I make out with myself. > > I don't believe that there is this one ultimate truth and clearly > every single person in this world is different from any other. So we > all have our own approach to life and interpretation of ACT. > For instance, I smiled (as many others) about EMs post about firing > yourself and thought it was an awesome idea. And then it had to be > taken apart. I actually think that by taking it apart and putting > every word (or the word "fire" in this case) on the golden scale that > that is the actual "language monster" that makes our lives > so difficult at times. > I am for a healthy discussion, don't get me wrong. But sometimes the > discussions here get so theoretical and the emails get ripped apart > and gnawed on to the bones that it doesn't seem that healthy anymore. > I don't think that ACT is supposed to make life difficult and > confusing, the workbook says in its title "Get _out of your mind_ and > into your life". > > My hope that I put into ACT was to shut up the constant noise > (thoughts) in my head and focus on the actual part of _living_ my life > instead of rather thinking about it. > If I have to read my email 10 times before I can post it to make sure > that I didn't use words or metaphors that may be "wrong" than what is > the point of ACT? Where does that slow down the mind machine? Where > does that give me the time and peace to leave my mind and enter my life? > > I think it is helpful to try and understand someone elses posts and > asking questions about it in order to be able to learn and apply > certain strategies to oneself. I am just really tired of the attacks > and smashing of new ideas. I don't think _ACT_ itself is frustrating > to the mind as Greg P. put it, I think it is this digging for > something wrong in someone elses ideas. This board is not meant to > show how much we know about ACT or how many of the ACT books we've > read or how much better we understand it than others and certainly not > to patronize each other. > > I agree with what Greg said about sometimes letting a metaphor be what > it is if you don't understand it rather than trying to figure it out - > in order to not get caught up in the mind machine all over again. But > other times you just want to understand, and then it is good to > inquire. Only through curiousity do we expand ourselves and there is > nothing wrong with an open mind. > > Sorry for this rant, I am experiencing a lot of noise in my head and > on this board, and I am tired of constant ducking so I finally had to > put my very own two cents in. > > Not as eloquent and moderate as Joanne, but still respectfully I am: > off the soap box. > > Peace - Cosmo > > > > > > *I respectfully disagree. I don't think ACT is _/'purposely/_ > designed to be confusing'. I'm not sure how you got to that > conclusion. It can be experienced as confusing because it is > certainly a different way of looking at and holding our lives. > And the exercises challenge us in ways we are not used to being > challenged. But there is no motive to "trip us up" or make this > difficult as it were. The handbook was written to make ACT more > accessible to all of us--less confusing, not more. As was this > forum. And there is constant effort to come up with new > metaphors and exercises and encouragement for us to invent our > own--all in the spirit of bringing forth more clarity, not more > confusion. > > I also disagree that if we "get it" on a gut level that this in > itself means anything. Indeed, in ACT, the client's experience is > the final arbiter. If the client has a an authentic felt > experience that s/he is really "getting it" that is not to be > second-guessed. There are genuine "aha" moments that happen, and > this is a good thing! For example, I really get what the dogs > meant in this metaphor. I hope you can accept that--but if you > can't, oh well. > > The 'dangerous place' I think you are referring to is if we too > quickly try to figure it all out, or get too smug or too attached > to this ACT stuff. As in get the ACT tattoo and start speaking > like you really know what you are saying. That's the danger--if > we lose that humility and presume we know everything and we are > "done". > > This dangerous place might also includes making assertions that > ACT is 'purposely designed to be less than simple' and believing > you are absolutely correct about this. On one level, one could > argue it's actually very simple. Indeed, in my calmest moments, I > really get how simple this stuff really is. It's just not > something we are not accustomed to, and so our minds make it more > complicated than it needs to be. > * > > Joanne > > > gregpeery wrote: > >> Here is were ACT can be very frustrating to the mind. ACT is >> purposly >> designed to be confusing and somewhat less then simple. If a >> metaphor >> doesn't make sense then sometimes it is better to just let it be >> what >> it is, then trying to figure it out. >> >> One of the biggest warnings Steve and others say is that when we >> think we start to "Get it" we are in a dangerous place. This goes >> for >> therapists as well as clients. So if we think we get it, that is a >> clear indication that we don't. >> >> Greg P >> >> >> >>> *Hi, >>> >>> Thanks-- I get everything you are saying! >>> >>> Nonetheless, I suppose my preference is for more clear and played >> out >>> examples that don't leave me feeling as though I just left a Zen >> master >>> with a puzzle to figure out. Mystery isn't always as glamorous as >> it >>> appears in and of itself. I think this stuff is pretty simple ( I >> want >>> to say accessible) as you say, and so I hope we work together to >> keep >>> it that way. >>> >>> Joanne >>> * >> > > > Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 14, 2006 Report Share Posted July 14, 2006 In spite of the potential emotional turmoil involved in the ongoing conversation, I think that there is actually much to be benefited from it. It seems to me that if we could simply alter our statements a bit to fit the metaphor of the chessboard, then we would find that we are building on each other instead of tearing each other down. I have personally just discovered that I was doing this same thing in a conversation on a controversial subject with my brother. Neither of us wholeheartedly disagreed with each other, but we approached the conversation as a debate. That led us to square off against each other and to exagerate our own opinions until they were polar opposites.I think you agree on far more than you disagree on. If we could take ourselves back a few posts and reconsider the message a bit, we may find that the language we used is our biggest barrier at the moment. I have learned that saying "but" in our statements tends to deadend a conversation or relationship where saying "and" instead would allow us to discuss the opposing thoughts.I would suggest that in some ways ACT is purposefully confusing to people, AND that it is really quite simple by design. There is so much more to talk about if we consider that both statements can be considered together instead of being labled as warring views looking for a victor.Sometimes in life, we have to read in "and" where someone says "but" not for their benefit but for ours.gregpeery wrote: I seriously am confused why you feel you have to attack me at every turn. If I have offended you in some way I would sure like to know why. You come on here like YOU know it all and then accuse me of what you are guilty of. I have learned ACT from an ACT trainer. I have read the ACT guide for therapists where STEVE, not me, States that ACT is purposfully confusing. As for respect maybe you should look the word up in the dictionary and do what it says and not what you think it says. > > > > > *Hi, > > > > > > Thanks-- I get everything you are saying! > > > > > > Nonetheless, I suppose my preference is for more clear and played > > out > > > examples that don't leave me feeling as though I just left a Zen > > master > > > with a puzzle to figure out. Mystery isn't always as glamorous as > > it > > > appears in and of itself. I think this stuff is pretty simple ( I > > want > > > to say accessible) as you say, and so I hope we work together to > > keep > > > it that way. > > > > > > Joanne > > > * > > > > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 TWO REQUESTS in response to all of these recent e-mails: 1. Let's all quit taking ourselves so g.d. seriously! 2. Can we please drop the dog metaphor controversy?? I think it's done to death, and it could be turning off lots of people -- both the ones who've been around for a while and esp. new people. Lively, respectful discussions are great. But this sucker has been analyzed and reanalyzed and OVER-analyzed to death. Let's agree to move on! Thanks in advance, Ginny __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 16, 2006 Report Share Posted July 16, 2006 So let me get this straight Ginny--are you saying: "Let's let sleeping dogs lie? ". Joanne ;-) Virginia Morr wrote: TWO REQUESTS in response to all of these recent e-mails: 1. Let's all quit taking ourselves so g.d. seriously! 2. Can we please drop the dog metaphor controversy?? I think it's done to death, and it could be turning off lots of people -- both the ones who've been around for a while and esp. new people. Lively, respectful discussions are great. But this sucker has been analyzed and reanalyzed and OVER-analyzed to death. Let's agree to move on! Thanks in advance, Ginny __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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