Re: half life of P - (itching)

[Guest guest]

- I am on Day 10 of my 2nd month and not feeling good at all.

Last cycle, I felt MARVELOUS on this day. What happened to me this

month? That damned E is not sinking in. And I'm itching like

crazy. Last night and this morning I felt like I had bugs crawling

on me. But once again, is it advisable to SKIP the P and keep using

E only? I don't know about that.

> > Hi ,

> > thanks so much for sharing that excellent synopsis about

> progesterone appplication (by Elora )

> > with us, as well as your own personal observations on it. We

needed

> to hear all this.

> > I have again spent a night itching, with only 1 line of P on one

> thigh..., 4 lines of E, and it still goes on into the morning

hours...

> > Since I want to still use E and have a uterus and no periods,

I'm

> not quite sure if - after the E-only phase (starting now) - I

should

> skip the next whole P-phase. I think I may be " weaned of P " by the

> time P " comes around " . Anyone have any feedback ?

> > Charlotte

> > Re: half life of P

> >

> >

> >

> > Until I encountered the WP, I always thought the consesus as

far

> as

> > where to apply transdermal P was in the highly vascularized,

but

> not

> > underlain with fat places, such as tops of hands and feet,

inner

> > elbow, inner wrist, behind ears..those places. The reasoning

> behind

> > this was that you didn't want it to build up in fat, but

instead

> be

> > used quickly. the estrogen was the stuff to be applied to

area

> with

> > more fat so that you would have the reserve. maybe part of

the

> > problem that seems to be occuring is with the Wiley-style

> application

> > of behind the knee and up into the fattty areas of the

> thigh/leg. I

> > noticed with my own experience, since I have been applying my

P

> this

> > way (behind leg and massaged into thigh area) I have, for the

> first

> > time, beeen getting a lot more drying out of my skin, thirst,

> > diuretic action, etc than when I used the same (fairly high,

300-

> > 400mg daily) amounts only in the spots with little or no fat

> > underneath.

> >

[Guest guest]

Since you've only been doing this for one month and are on the second

month, I would try first reducing the P dose...receptors are still

awakening, don't you think? (the blind leading the blind here - I am

on day 9 of my first WP cycle!) I have read somewhere (that's my

worst trait, I pick up info and never remember why so i can cite the

source) that bigs crawling on you is low E! but we've been getting

itchier and itchier in the P phase...so? your guess is as good as

mine! Right now, I have itchy hives on my face. I do not want to

blame it on the MS product - way too soon to do that - I believe it

began during my last P cycle, using the WIP cream, but lots of it.

> > > Hi ,

> > > thanks so much for sharing that excellent synopsis about

> > progesterone appplication (by Elora )

> > > with us, as well as your own personal observations on it. We

> needed

> > to hear all this.

> > > I have again spent a night itching, with only 1 line of P on

one

> > thigh..., 4 lines of E, and it still goes on into the morning

> hours...

> > > Since I want to still use E and have a uterus and no periods,

> I'm

> > not quite sure if - after the E-only phase (starting now) - I

> should

> > skip the next whole P-phase. I think I may be " weaned of P " by

the

> > time P " comes around " . Anyone have any feedback ?

> > > Charlotte

> > > Re: half life of P

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Until I encountered the WP, I always thought the consesus as

> far

> > as

> > > where to apply transdermal P was in the highly vascularized,

> but

> > not

> > > underlain with fat places, such as tops of hands and feet,

> inner

> > > elbow, inner wrist, behind ears..those places. The reasoning

> > behind

> > > this was that you didn't want it to build up in fat, but

> instead

> > be

> > > used quickly. the estrogen was the stuff to be applied to

> area

> > with

> > > more fat so that you would have the reserve. maybe part of

> the

> > > problem that seems to be occuring is with the Wiley-style

> > application

> > > of behind the knee and up into the fattty areas of the

> > thigh/leg. I

> > > noticed with my own experience, since I have been applying my

> P

> > this

> > > way (behind leg and massaged into thigh area) I have, for the

> > first

> > > time, beeen getting a lot more drying out of my skin, thirst,

> > > diuretic action, etc than when I used the same (fairly high,

> 300-

> > > 400mg daily) amounts only in the spots with little or no fat

> > > underneath.

> > >

[Guest guest]

- I am on Day 10 of my 2nd month and not feeling good at all. Last cycle, I felt MARVELOUS on this day. What happened to me this month? That damned E is not sinking in. And I'm itching like crazy. Last night and this morning I felt like I had bugs crawling on me. But once again, is it advisable to SKIP the P and keep using E only? I don't know about that.

, do you have the IMOS, by Dr Vliet??? pg.277...she talks about a condition called Formication, a sensation of something crawling under your skin, or on the skin. Caused by low estradiol.....resolves quickly when right balance of E is restored.....this book is a must read.....I've had this too...a reminder your E is low!!! :-))))

[Guest guest]

Ladies:

Itching is also a reaction to P, and a common one. P can hang around awhile after you stop taking it.

Sammie

[Guest guest]

- I'm going to run right out and get Vliet's books. Havent'

had time - I'm preparing to go on a cruise on Sat! Anyway,

something interesting happened yesterday afternoon. I was on a 7E

line day (I break it up to 4x a day). When I applied my 2nd dose of

the day at 3 pm, all my pain disappeared. After all that throbbing

in my neck and I couldn't sit still it was so bad -- it WENT AWAY.

And NO itching last night!!! I got home at 7:30 from work (usual

time) and was wide awake and VERY ambitious! I am usually a dead

crow when I get home from work. Yes, we CAN feel wonderful again.

This gives me hope. ut why must this be for only day? Why can't I

feel like this EVERY day? Does this mean that I need to be on 14

mgs. a day of E to feel this way? That doesn't seem right.

>

> In a message dated 5/10/2005 12:53:14 PM Pacific Standard Time,

> merryr@u... writes:

>

> - I am on Day 10 of my 2nd month and not feeling good at

all.

> Last cycle, I felt MARVELOUS on this day. What happened to me

this

> month? That damned E is not sinking in. And I'm itching like

> crazy. Last night and this morning I felt like I had bugs crawling

> on me. But once again, is it advisable to SKIP the P and keep

using

> E only? I don't know about that.

>

>

>

>

> , do you have the IMOS, by Dr Vliet??? pg.277...she talks

about a

> condition called Formication, a sensation of something crawling

under your skin,

> or on the skin. Caused by low estradiol.....resolves quickly when

right

> balance of E is restored.....this book is a must read.....I've had

this too...a

> reminder your E is low!!! :-))))

[Guest guest]

WOW - ! that's great! when something works that well, even for

a short time, my doctor always said that means you're on the right

track. Are you having any skin problems this month? I had hives all

over my face yesterday (day 9) and had to take benedryl at night to

make them go away.

> >

> > In a message dated 5/10/2005 12:53:14 PM Pacific Standard Time,

> > merryr@u... writes:

> >

> > - I am on Day 10 of my 2nd month and not feeling good at

> all.

> > Last cycle, I felt MARVELOUS on this day. What happened to me

> this

> > month? That damned E is not sinking in. And I'm itching like

> > crazy. Last night and this morning I felt like I had bugs

crawling

> > on me. But once again, is it advisable to SKIP the P and keep

> using

> > E only? I don't know about that.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > , do you have the IMOS, by Dr Vliet??? pg.277...she talks

> about a

> > condition called Formication, a sensation of something crawling

> under your skin,

> > or on the skin. Caused by low estradiol.....resolves quickly when

> right

> > balance of E is restored.....this book is a must read.....I've

had

> this too...a

> > reminder your E is low!!! :-))))

[Guest guest]

> Ladies:

> Itching is also a reaction to P, and a common one. P can hang

around

> awhile after you stop taking it.

> Sammie

True enough, Sammie...but declining E levels also create itching - so I

guess a person has to look at what she is or isn't doing when the

itching becomes a problem. I never itched or had dry skin until the

last few months - and the only thing different is that I may have

gotten to my saturation point with high P since I have been using 300-

400 mg P daily for two weeks per month since last Oct.

[Guest guest]

I'm afraid I've been taking a 12-hr antihistamine every day for the

past 2 weeks. I'm an allergic mess. Could be my usual allergies.

Now my neck muscles are killing me again. Throbbing. No amount of

E is helping.

Ready for the Advil

> > >

> > > In a message dated 5/10/2005 12:53:14 PM Pacific Standard

Time,

> > > merryr@u... writes:

> > >

> > > - I am on Day 10 of my 2nd month and not feeling good

at

> > all.

> > > Last cycle, I felt MARVELOUS on this day. What happened to

me

> > this

> > > month? That damned E is not sinking in. And I'm itching

like

> > > crazy. Last night and this morning I felt like I had bugs

> crawling

> > > on me. But once again, is it advisable to SKIP the P and

keep

> > using

> > > E only? I don't know about that.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > , do you have the IMOS, by Dr Vliet??? pg.277...she talks

> > about a

> > > condition called Formication, a sensation of something

crawling

> > under your skin,

> > > or on the skin. Caused by low estradiol.....resolves quickly

when

> > right

> > > balance of E is restored.....this book is a must read.....I've

> had

> > this too...a

> > > reminder your E is low!!! :-))))

[Guest guest]

I am tasking claritin, bendryl at night AND Advil and my neck muscles

are also killing me! (I guess I trump you, huh?;] Weird because they

usually do not hurt.

> > > >

> > > > In a message dated 5/10/2005 12:53:14 PM Pacific Standard

> Time,

> > > > merryr@u... writes:

> > > >

> > > > - I am on Day 10 of my 2nd month and not feeling good

> at

> > > all.

> > > > Last cycle, I felt MARVELOUS on this day. What happened to

> me

> > > this

> > > > month? That damned E is not sinking in. And I'm itching

> like

> > > > crazy. Last night and this morning I felt like I had bugs

> > crawling

> > > > on me. But once again, is it advisable to SKIP the P and

> keep

> > > using

> > > > E only? I don't know about that.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > , do you have the IMOS, by Dr Vliet??? pg.277...she talks

> > > about a

> > > > condition called Formication, a sensation of something

> crawling

> > > under your skin,

> > > > or on the skin. Caused by low estradiol.....resolves quickly

> when

> > > right

> > > > balance of E is restored.....this book is a must

read.....I've

> > had

> > > this too...a

> > > > reminder your E is low!!! :-))))

[Guest guest]

well I thought BHRT was supposed to help us with that pain! Or maybe

it was WP that was supposed to do that.

I'm miserable today. Can't wait to get out of this chair.

> > > > >

> > > > > In a message dated 5/10/2005 12:53:14 PM Pacific Standard

> > Time,

> > > > > merryr@u... writes:

> > > > >

> > > > > - I am on Day 10 of my 2nd month and not feeling

good

> > at

> > > > all.

> > > > > Last cycle, I felt MARVELOUS on this day. What happened

to

> > me

> > > > this

> > > > > month? That damned E is not sinking in. And I'm itching

> > like

> > > > > crazy. Last night and this morning I felt like I had bugs

> > > crawling

> > > > > on me. But once again, is it advisable to SKIP the P and

> > keep

> > > > using

> > > > > E only? I don't know about that.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > , do you have the IMOS, by Dr Vliet??? pg.277...she

talks

> > > > about a

> > > > > condition called Formication, a sensation of something

> > crawling

> > > > under your skin,

> > > > > or on the skin. Caused by low estradiol.....resolves

quickly

> > when

> > > > right

> > > > > balance of E is restored.....this book is a must

> read.....I've

> > > had

> > > > this too...a

> > > > > reminder your E is low!!! :-))))

[Guest guest]

I'm completely convinced it stored itself in my fat. How long it willtake to mobilize it out I don't know.Lynn

Mark, one of the Pharmacists up here told me it not only stores in our fat, but organ,tissue and skin...we do shed skin, but then, yuck is it full of hormone ladden stuff when it falls off??? so fun....I'm looking more and more towards those sustained release caps.for my P.

[Guest guest]

Well I wonder if we could get to a once a day dose and feel good. Would be nice eh? I was doing 5 mg a day of E before Wiley, and I didn't quite get to the "feel good" stage with that. Are you going to do peaks too? Or just do 4mg (BID) from Day 1 -14? (that sounds like a nice dose, doesn't it?)

, I still want to do small rounded peaks, more like waves rolling across the ocean...Laurel had a cool picture up awhile back.....reminded me of being at the beach...up and down, even had the curving mini-peak.....I feel I may do just a gradual hump...if I can get down to a 4mgBID base....will see how it goes...still fine tuning, under watchful eyes,as always, :-)))))

[Guest guest]

Rarely, IF EVER have I seen anyone prescribed once a day dosing with E...I think trasdermally, you need it twice a day.

even with an oral dose, 12 hrs. and the blood levels start to dip......I was told BID was the way to go, for either oral or transdermal.

[Guest guest]

>

> Have we figured out HOW long????

Well I'm now on 14 days since using any P. The weird smell with P I

get had just about gone away and bang... it returned yesterday. I also

didn't sleep well last night even with extra E. I upped my excercise

the last few days so maybe that's pulling more out.

I'm completely convinced it stored itself in my fat. How long it will

take to mobilize it out I don't know.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

> Mark, one of the Pharmacists up here told me it not only stores in

our fat,

> but organ,tissue and skin...

Oh GAWD I figured this....you just confirmed it. So did he say how

they know this, what to do about it, how long it stores for, do we

need to lay off P for a long time or once it stores is it unavailable??

Ray Peat is the P expert. I'll send him an email and see if he responds.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

, I've been on Oestrogel for about 2 years and used P suppositories

every three months. That gave me some spotting. Last December, I had an

ultrasound and learned my endometrium was too thick (13). My doc put me on

200 mg Prometrium for 10 days a month. Last month, I had 4 days of

spotting, and that was the first since going on Prometrium on January 1. I

called her, concerned that I hadn't had a real period. She feels that the

200 mg Prometrium is protective and doubts seriously that the lining is

still thick. I have heard that a lining will decline just by avoiding E for

a week or two. This month I'm doing 300 mg of P (just to make sure).

Anyway, the first two months of P were horrible but things have really

changed. Last month and this month, the P phases have been delightful. I

sleep like a log and am much more relaxed than when on E alone.

I don't remember, but is your 100 mg via oral dosing or is it by

transdermal? For oral, I'm not sure 100 mg is enough if you are using E.

Val

----Original Message-----

From: rhythmicliving

[mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of

Interesting. Well, I've just asked my doctor to prescribe the OO

for me. I hope he doesn't freak out. I don't know what I want to

do regarding the E dosing. I'm going to stick to 100 mgs a day of P

on days 14-28. I still don't know if I want to do any peaks either.

I just want to feel GOOD. That damned itching is horrible. My poor

mom. She's had horrible itching and hives all her life and no doc

has helped her. Now I know what the poor soul goes through.

[Guest guest]

Well I wonder if we could get to a once a day dose and feel good.

Would be nice eh? I was doing 5 mg a day of E before Wiley, and I

didn't quite get to the " feel good " stage with that. Are you going

to do peaks too? Or just do 4mg (BID) from Day 1 -14?

(that sounds like a nice dose, doesn't it?)

> , I think our E needs change, as we change.....stress, P

overload, lots

> of things....I seem to be needing less E as some of the P weakens

in me a

> bit.... I was caught up in an escalating E & P battle as it were.

When I first

> got on the protocol in SLM, I seemed to do quite well on 4mgs. E

BID....but

> the more I did the higher doses of P the more E I required to

balance all that

> P.....I was turning into an E sponge, and was feeling my body was

about to

> freek on so many of both. This is a cleansing month, a fast if

you will.....my

> little body is thanking me. I was getting to where I needed up to

12mgs BID

> of E, that's wrong in my eyes. I have got myself down to 7mgs.

BID also. This

> maybe too much still, but it is coming down to a more reasonable

place. I

> feel over the next month or two, I'l be able to be at 4mgs. BID

for a base....as

> long as I'm not doing those massive amounts of P.....I never felt

healthy on

> more than 4P.....and that by transdermal standards is to high...a

dose of

> 25-50mgs. a day, not even BID is what is usually used. If I go

with this ratio,

> I will not need even that 4mgs. E to do it's job.....I'm still in

a thinking

> and sorting out stage with all of this.....been talking with as

many Drs.

> and Pharamcists as I can, and that is where these conclusions have

lead me to

> at the present. So go with care, keep being good to yourself and

your body

> will reward you, it is so nice to feel good......that balance. We

all have

> different E & P needs, that's what make me look at the protocol to

start with,

> could be used as a guide....then altered to my, NOT one dose fits

all body

> :-)))) thanks for sharing your GOOD day with us, makes me smile,

[Guest guest]

Are you going

> to do peaks too? Or just do 4mg (BID) from Day 1 -14?

> (that sounds like a nice dose, doesn't it?)

Oh boy! You are REALLY looking for someone to throw you a line here,

aren't you? I would say use your E 4 -6 mg BID if that makes

you feel well and don't worry so much about the P for one month..that

will not kill you or be the end of the world to use very little for

just one month, and meanwhile it will get you thru the cruise nicely.

[Guest guest]

Rarely, IF EVER have I seen anyone prescribed once a day dosing with

E...I think trasdermally, you need it twice a day.

> > , I think our E needs change, as we change.....stress, P

> overload, lots

> > of things....I seem to be needing less E as some of the P weakens

> in me a

> > bit.... I was caught up in an escalating E & P battle as it were.

> When I first

> > got on the protocol in SLM, I seemed to do quite well on 4mgs. E

> BID....but

> > the more I did the higher doses of P the more E I required to

> balance all that

> > P.....I was turning into an E sponge, and was feeling my body was

> about to

> > freek on so many of both. This is a cleansing month, a fast if

> you will.....my

> > little body is thanking me. I was getting to where I needed up

to

> 12mgs BID

> > of E, that's wrong in my eyes. I have got myself down to 7mgs.

> BID also. This

> > maybe too much still, but it is coming down to a more reasonable

> place. I

> > feel over the next month or two, I'l be able to be at 4mgs. BID

> for a base....as

> > long as I'm not doing those massive amounts of P.....I never

felt

> healthy on

> > more than 4P.....and that by transdermal standards is to

high...a

> dose of

> > 25-50mgs. a day, not even BID is what is usually used. If I go

> with this ratio,

> > I will not need even that 4mgs. E to do it's job.....I'm still in

> a thinking

> > and sorting out stage with all of this.....been talking with as

> many Drs.

> > and Pharamcists as I can, and that is where these conclusions

have

> lead me to

> > at the present. So go with care, keep being good to yourself and

> your body

> > will reward you, it is so nice to feel good......that balance. We

> all have

> > different E & P needs, that's what make me look at the protocol

to

> start with,

> > could be used as a guide....then altered to my, NOT one dose fits

> all body

> > :-)))) thanks for sharing your GOOD day with us, makes me smile,

>

[Guest guest]

>

> In a message dated 5/12/2005 9:24:58 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> Astrodiana@c... writes:

>

> Rarely, IF EVER have I seen anyone prescribed once a day dosing with

> E...I think trasdermally, you need it twice a day.

>

>

>

>

>

> even with an oral dose, 12 hrs. and the blood levels start to

dip......I was

> told BID was the way to go, for either oral or transdermal.

Yes, same here. When I took capsules it was also BID.

[Guest guest]

I'm feeling pretty well but am having night sweats beginning at about 4 a.m. For the first year on E2 gel, I had no sweats. They started the 2nd year. I may go up on the gel after this P routine is done.

Val

Val sounds like the extra 100mgs. of P was enough to throw your E off balance, now the night sweats...

[Guest guest]

This> month I'm> > doing 300 mg Prometrium for 12 days. Next month I'll go back to> 200 mg> > Prometrium for 10-12 days.

WHY????? for 10-12 days, couldn't ya just make a peak one day and be done with it??? Just a thought. Then back to your "happy" place???

[Guest guest]

Hi Val -- the 100 mg of P I took was a troche and it was once a day.

With that and 5 mgs a day of E (cream from another pharmacy), I

would get my period at Day 21 which was annoying. But it really

wasn't a period -- it was more like a 3 day thing that wasn't any

surge - not exactly spotting. So the 5 mgs a day I don't think was

enough. What about your doses below? Are we talking BID?

> , I've been on Oestrogel for about 2 years and used P

suppositories

> every three months. That gave me some spotting. Last December, I

had an

> ultrasound and learned my endometrium was too thick (13). My doc

put me on

> 200 mg Prometrium for 10 days a month. Last month, I had 4 days of

> spotting, and that was the first since going on Prometrium on

January 1. I

> called her, concerned that I hadn't had a real period. She feels

that the

> 200 mg Prometrium is protective and doubts seriously that the

lining is

> still thick. I have heard that a lining will decline just by

avoiding E for

> a week or two. This month I'm doing 300 mg of P (just to make

sure).

>

> Anyway, the first two months of P were horrible but things have

really

> changed. Last month and this month, the P phases have been

delightful. I

> sleep like a log and am much more relaxed than when on E alone.

>

> I don't remember, but is your 100 mg via oral dosing or is it by

> transdermal? For oral, I'm not sure 100 mg is enough if you are

using E.

>

> Val

> ----Original Message-----

> From: rhythmicliving

> [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of

>

> Interesting. Well, I've just asked my doctor to prescribe the OO

> for me. I hope he doesn't freak out. I don't know what I want to

> do regarding the E dosing. I'm going to stick to 100 mgs a day of

P

> on days 14-28. I still don't know if I want to do any peaks either.

> I just want to feel GOOD. That damned itching is horrible. My poor

> mom. She's had horrible itching and hives all her life and no doc

> has helped her. Now I know what the poor soul goes through.

[Guest guest]

Yes! Me and that cruise! WEll unfortunately we are back to square one

now. Trying to figure what doses make us feel good! Damn!

> Are you going

> > to do peaks too? Or just do 4mg (BID) from Day 1 -14?

>

>

> > (that sounds like a nice dose, doesn't it?)

>

>

>

>

> Oh boy! You are REALLY looking for someone to throw you a line here,

> aren't you? I would say use your E 4 -6 mg BID if that makes

> you feel well and don't worry so much about the P for one month..that

> will not kill you or be the end of the world to use very little for

> just one month, and meanwhile it will get you thru the cruise

nicely.

>

[Guest guest]

I am feeling very well on the Prometrium. That actually surprises me.

Val

I thought you were feeling good then you uped it to 300mgs. and were getting night sweats??? And you were fine on the 200mgs. Guess I misunderstood,