Re: possible errors in WPconfiguration of P-dosages

[Guest guest]

,

I'm using 50% of the Wiley Protocol P amount on days 14-28. I don't bleed on day 28 - I bleed on day 30 or so, but that's ok. I still am using estrogen during those 2 days before I start day 1 again. I'm also using about 33% - 50% E but might ramp that up a wee tad next month as my skin broke out this month.

Lori

Re: Re: possible errors in WPconfiguration of P-dosages

I can vouch for the 2 year thing. I was on Norplant and then depo-provera and it took me almost 3 years to get that crap out of my system and I still wonder what damage it did. That's why I'm trying to "fix" the problem now. Wish I knew then what I know now but.....what do they say? Live & learn? :-))

Lori

So Lori, are you using a transdermal P right now???? any P??? Still sorting this out:-))) click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/Our sister group for research and high volumehttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rhythmic_Living_Research/**This group has no pharmacy or commercial affiliations. Any mention of product or a pharmacy is within the scope of that group member's experience and does not represent the view of the list owner. Please check directly with pharmacies for details about their product and policies. Not everything you hear on an e-mail list is the truth even if it is a member's best effort to report their experience which may vary from your own. There are many variables that determine how we feel.*****The group conversation is informational in nature and is not intended as medical advice. Anyone wishing to actively use this information or members' opionins for personal health improvement is advised to consult with the qualified health care provider of their choice before attempting to use the information. Membership on this list constitutes agreement that you will not consider any of this medical advice. Discuss your decisions with your doctor.**

[Guest guest]

Dear Charlotte,

Your post of May 9 has been 'haunting' me. LOL

My copy of IMOS arrived today. I proceeded to look up as many

references to progesterone from the index. Pages 320-321 have the

following Caution: Progesterone doses in excess of 300 mg a day

orally (or creams containing more than 20-30mg per day)cause blood

levels of progesterone that are as high as those found in the third

trimester of pregnancy.....the FDA-approved dosing for transdermal

versus oral is usually for transdermal forms to be about one-tenth of

the typical oral dose....etc. etc.

So, to do the math: WP: 14L at 25 mg = 350 mg; BID would be 700

mg multiplied by 10 (!!!) = 7000 mg on peak day 21.

According to your proposed dosing chart,1L BID would furnish 500

mg per day; 2L BID 1000 mg.

Other references to P dosing/side effects are: STBH pp. 81, 87,

359 and 421. IMOS p 201.

This is my month 3, Day 13 and I am grateful to you for this

realization.

Kathy

58

Long Island, NY

(May 9, 2005)

> If we credit Dr. beth Vliet with any " know how " at all: in her

(huge hard cover) " Screaming... " book

> ( I looked up at the bookstore), she pointed out the difference

between o r a l and t r a n s d e r m a l dosages (some-where

pages 317 and following).

> She recommended as a usual transdermal dosage, (according to

individual needs), between 20 - 40 mg, (that would be in terms of the

MS cream 1-2 lines=25-50mg), which would translate to 100-200mg oral

P-dose she said.

> If (only!) 25 mg=l line P transdermal hormone cream translates in

fact to 125 mg oral dose, then 14 lines P m a x , in the MS d e r m a

l application would mean that WP women are taking (by a max of 14

lines x 125mg = )1750mg in terms of oral dose - (not 350mg, like Susie

I think intended) !!!

> No wonder many of us were going " berzerk " !

> I really wonder if Susie is/was aware of that ?

> (Please, correct me on my above math if needed).

> **Vliet also said 300mg o r a l P would only be allowed short-term

for women who have a proven record of extraordinarily low P-levels.

>

> Cheereo,

> Charlotte

[Guest guest]

This is my month 3, Day 13 and I am grateful to you for thisrealization.Kathy

Kathy, so glad you have been spared what we have gone through, good work, you have open eyes:-)))) Hope more will read before blindly following for so long, like I did....

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathy,

welcome, and I'm glad you became aware. Sorry I'm not familiar with the IMOS (what title?) book.

I have to say though, that I trust Dr. Vliet's configuration of oral versus transdermal ratios more than the FDA, for the simple reason that I have enough experience with the effect of transdermal application on myself, to dismiss the 1 : 10 ratio as too low and believing in the 1:5 ratio as more likely.

I hope you will re-consider the reasoning below and decide for yourself, maybe by starting out the FDA recommended lowest dose, and seing for yourself if it has any (or enough of a) positive effect on your condition, increasing if needed.

Good going!

Amicably,

Charlotte

-------------

"...My copy of IMOS arrived today. I proceeded to look up as many references to progesterone from the index. Pages 320-321 have thefollowing Caution: Progesterone doses in excess of 300 mg a dayorally (or creams containing more than 20-30mg per day)cause bloodlevels of progesterone that are as high as those found in the thirdtrimester of pregnancy.....the FDA-approved dosing for transdermalversus oral is usually for transdermal forms to be about one-tenth ofthe typical oral dose....etc. etc. trimester of pregnancyversus oral is usually for Other references to P dosing/side effects are: STBH pp. 81, 87,359 and 421. IMOS p 201. This is my month 3, Day 13 and I am grateful to you for thisrealization.Kathy58Long Island, NY (May 9, 2005)> If we credit Dr. beth Vliet with any "know how" at all: in her(huge hard cover) "Screaming..." book> ( I looked up at the bookstore), she pointed out the differencebetween o r a l and t r a n s d e r m a l dosages (some-wherepages 317 and following).> She recommended as a usual transdermal dosage, (according toindividual needs), between 20 - 40 mg, (that would be in terms of theMS cream 1-2 lines=25-50mg), which would translate to 100-200mg oralP-dose she said.> If (only!) 25 mg=l line P transdermal hormone cream translates infact to 125 mg oral dose, then 14 lines P m a x , in the MS d e r m al application would mean that WP women are taking (by a max of 14lines x 125mg = )1750mg in terms of oral dose - (not 350mg, like SusieI think intended) !!! > No wonder many of us were going "berzerk"!> I really wonder if Susie is/was aware of that ? > (Please, correct me on my above math if needed).> **Vliet also said 300mg o r a l P would only be allowed short-termfor women who have a proven record of extraordinarily low P-levels. > > Cheereo,> Charlotteclick here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/**The group conversation is informational in nature and is not intended as medical advice.**

[Guest guest]

Hi Charlotte,

IMOS is " It's My Ovaries Stupid " by Dr. Vliet c2003. Because

she included the caution, I would think she concurred with the 1:10

ratio. Where can I find the 1:5 ratio? You're saying Vliet wrote

that also?

Thank you for responding.

Sincerely,

Kathy

58

all parts

8/02 menopause

(May 9, 2005)

>

> > If we credit Dr. beth Vliet with any " know how " at all: in

her

> (huge hard cover) " Screaming... " book

> > ( I looked up at the bookstore), she pointed out the difference

> between o r a l and t r a n s d e r m a l dosages (some-where

> pages 317 and following).

> > She recommended as a usual transdermal dosage, (according to

> individual needs), between 20 - 40 mg, (that would be in terms of

the

> MS cream 1-2 lines=25-50mg), which would translate to 100-200mg

oral

> P-dose she said.

> > If (only!) 25 mg=l line P transdermal hormone cream translates

in

> fact to 125 mg oral dose, then 14 lines P m a x , in the MS d e

r m a

> l application would mean that WP women are taking (by a max of 14

> lines x 125mg = )1750mg in terms of oral dose - (not 350mg, like

Susie

> I think intended) !!!

> > No wonder many of us were going " berzerk " !

> > I really wonder if Susie is/was aware of that ?

> > (Please, correct me on my above math if needed).

>

> > **Vliet also said 300mg o r a l P would only be allowed

short-term

> for women who have a proven record of extraordinarily low

P-levels.

> >

> > Cheereo,

> > Charlotte

>

>

>

>

> click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/

>

> **The group conversation is informational in nature and is not

intended as medical advice.**

>

>

>

>

>

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>

>

[Guest guest]

As far as I recall when I read her book STBH it was on page 217 or the following maybe 5 pages some-where, didn't buy the book.

Maybe it depends what book she wrote first...?

Anyway, she recommends 25-40 mg of transdermal P, so why not start with that, instead of getting stuck on the math by comparing with tenfold oral mgs? Or are you taking oral - I forgot.

Charlotte

Re: possible errors in WPconfiguration of P-dosages

Hi Charlotte, IMOS is "It's My Ovaries Stupid" by Dr. Vliet c2003. Becauseshe included the caution, I would think she concurred with the 1:10ratio. Where can I find the 1:5 ratio? You're saying Vliet wrotethat also? Thank you for responding.Sincerely, Kathy58all parts8/02 menopause (May 9, 2005)> > > If we credit Dr. beth Vliet with any "know how" at all: inher> (huge hard cover) "Screaming..." book> > ( I looked up at the bookstore), she pointed out the difference> between o r a l and t r a n s d e r m a l dosages (some-where> pages 317 and following).> > She recommended as a usual transdermal dosage, (according to> individual needs), between 20 - 40 mg, (that would be in terms ofthe> MS cream 1-2 lines=25-50mg), which would translate to 100-200mgoral> P-dose she said.> > If (only!) 25 mg=l line P transdermal hormone cream translatesin> fact to 125 mg oral dose, then 14 lines P m a x , in the MS d er m a> l application would mean that WP women are taking (by a max of 14> lines x 125mg = )1750mg in terms of oral dose - (not 350mg, likeSusie> I think intended) !!! > > No wonder many of us were going "berzerk"!> > I really wonder if Susie is/was aware of that ? > > (Please, correct me on my above math if needed).> > > **Vliet also said 300mg o r a l P would only be allowedshort-term> for women who have a proven record of extraordinarily lowP-levels. > > > > Cheereo,> > Charlotte> > > > > click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/> > **The group conversation is informational in nature and is notintended as medical advice.** > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------> >