Re: Permit and Lincensure

[Guest guest]

Friends,

Yes, I have the same impression about there being a hierarchy. For a number of reasons I decided to get all three licenses (LCAT, LMHC, and LP), but here's what I was told by someone at the state when applying: You wouldn't need to apply for the LCAT or the LP (licensed psychoanalyst). If you have an LMHC (licensed mental health counselor), then, as long as you have the training, you can do dmt and psy. an. The fact that he said this about the counseling license also gave me the impression that their is a hierarchy, and, with all due respect to counselors, it seemed odd that they should outrank LCATs and psychoanalysts. The latter have many additional years of post-postgraduate training. The one area in which the requirement for counselors is higher than for either LCAT or LPs is in the number of required hours of post-graduate working experience, 3000. LCATs and LPs are required to have 1500 hours (particularly difficult for LPs as they only have one-on-one patient contact hours that they can include.)

Another thing that I noticed when reading the material that came with my licenses was that the definition of what counselors due is broader. For instance, it allows me to work with couples and families, and fortunately I do have several years of training and supervision for this work.

Beate

Re: Permit and Lincensure

,Please do email Hamilton and see what he says. I'd appreciate hearing hisreply - What I understood is that if a person holds a license in another mentalhealth field, e.g., social work and that person is trained in one of the creativearts therapies that social worker could practice the CAT s/he is trained in, butthey could not call themselves LCAT. The question I asked Hamilton is howdoes one know that the person is educated and competent to do a CAT? Hisresponse is that if s/he was not trained, then the client could complain. I think there are ethical and legal ramifications also, but I just don't know whatthey are -- There are appears to be a hierarchy even in the licensing law wherea CAT seems to be low man on the totem pole.Good luck in your search and I would appreciate knowing what you discover.Regards,Elissa

I appreciate all of the comments about this complicated issue and the discussion seems rich. I am still a bit confused...I understand of course title protection and would never call myself a "licensed" anything if I am in fact not. The question (and I guess I could email Hamilton) is around the idea of practicing a creative art therapy as a licensed mental health professional and the ethical/legal ramifications around this if there are any. Sorry if I am repeating myself...just not sure as there seemed to be some conflicting answers on this piece.thanks all

So my question is how does one determine if someone is competent, short of their being certified or registered as is. What about an LCSW who says they have competed a course of study in art therapy, but it is not one that leads to certification as an art therapist? Who determines is someone has expertise. This is a particular concern to psychodramatists because there are many people out there who claim to offer psychodrama because they have been trained in something called heart centered psychodrama through trainers who have no credentials through the American board of Examiners on psychodrama. My guess is that there are LCSWs who offer art or dance therapy without being credentialed, too. Who gets to determine their level of expertise? WaltersGas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

[Guest guest]

Ms Milia,

I have been trying to reach you...I am working on obtaining my license and some of the hours were supervised by you a loong time ago! please let me know how many hours you supervised...thank you

Karina

From: NSCOUNSLRaol (DOT) com <NSCOUNSLRaol (DOT) com>

Subject: Re: Permit and Lincensure

To: NYCCATyahoogroups (DOT) com

Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 11:01 AM

Thanks for this information . I am confused by some of the OP information. For example, I am an LCSW and a registered poetry-writing therapist and soon to finish my psychodrama certification (hopefully next year). Are you saying that under these guidelines of NYS licensure I cannot call myself a CAT without a permit or LCAT? I would imagine I can still provide psychotherapy (under my psychotherapy license) that has a creative focus per my already received training. I am all for regulated practice but sometimes get bogged down in what the new "allowances" are.

Any clarification would be much appreciated.

Scherlong, LCSW, PTR

In a message dated 6/13/2008 12:30:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, asteermanyahoo (DOT) com writes:

It is illegal in the state of NY to practice creative art therapy without a limited permit or license. The ATR is the art therapy national credential, but the state credential is the LCAT. Once there is a state license in place for any mental health practitioner, you must receive it to practice the discipline. You can not count your work hours toward the LCAT until you have your limited permit. As someone who struggled through this process and had to redo all my hours for a second time to get my LCAT, I strongly suggest that you get your application in as early as possible. You must have a limited permit number before you can start counting hours and this can take months. The steps of the ATR and LCAT can happen simultaneously. You can count some of the same hours toward both.

Hope this helps.

Steerman, MPS, ATR-BC, LCAT

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[Guest guest]

Hi Karina,you have the wrong person.  I have not supervised anyone before.tte Re: Permit and Lincensure

To: NYCCATyahoogroups (DOT) com

Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 11:01 AM

Thanks for this information .  I am confused by some of the OP information.  For example, I am an LCSW and a registered poetry-writing therapist and soon to finish my psychodrama certification (hopefully next year).  Are you saying that under these guidelines of NYS licensure I cannot call myself a CAT without a permit or LCAT?  I would imagine I can still provide psychotherapy (under my psychotherapy license) that has a creative focus per my already received training.  I am all for regulated practice but sometimes get bogged down in what the new "allowances" are.

Any clarification would be much appreciated.

Scherlong, LCSW, PTR

 

In a message dated 6/13/2008 12:30:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, asteermanyahoo (DOT) com writes:

It is illegal in the state of NY to practice creative art therapy without a limited permit or license. The ATR is the art therapy national credential, but the state credential is the LCAT. Once there is a state license in place for any mental health practitioner, you must receive it to practice the discipline. You can not count your work hours toward the LCAT until you have your limited permit. As someone who struggled through this process and had to redo all my hours for a second time to get my LCAT, I strongly suggest that you get your application in as early as possible. You must have a limited permit number before you can start counting hours and this can take months. The steps of the ATR and LCAT can happen simultaneously. You can count some of the same hours toward both.

Hope this helps.

Steerman, MPS, ATR-BC, LCAT

Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

[Guest guest]

I haven’t received anything from you

in a week. Have I been deleted from the list serve? Thanks, Pat

Quinn LCAT

From:

NYCCAT [mailto:NYCCAT ] On Behalf Of NSCOUNSLR@...

Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 4:16

AM

To: NYCCAT

Subject: Re: Permit and

Lincensure

thanks all for the additional

clarification on this, I appreciate it! ;-)

In a message dated 6/25/2008 10:44:35

P.M. Eastern Standard Time, artyistaol writes:

Under state licensing/certified codes,as

far as my knowledge goes,,,Licensed Clinical Social workers,as are

Phd.Psychologists and psychiatrists are

" allowed " to practice in all modalites.

I also would never consider calling

myself an art therapist,nor a psychodramatist even though I have had extensive

training,and individual supervision/mentoring in both. (not certified)

I do,however offer some of the techniques

and/or skills I have acquired with some clients.,though most of my practice is

traditional " talk " psychodynamic psychotherapy.

Psychiatrists

and Psychologists have been offering both for years as part of their

practice,especially when they know clients who are inclined to be more apt to

communicate non verbally,but through their

artistic expression.(I am being very

broad here,knowing full well that making art and being involved with drama is

very different than art therapy or psychodrama

Carol Ferrante Smuckler,LCSW R

artist/psychotherapist

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