Guest guest Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 I also work in an agency based in a school and have applied for my limited permit. It has taken three months, but it is finally on the way. It if a frustrating process. Here is what I suggest. Apply as far in advance as possible. Call them after a month has passed and check on the status. Don't be afraid to keep bugging them about it. You have to apply for licensure and give them the $345 dollars and apply for a limited permit for $70 at the same time. It seems backward to me, but that's how it is. After you've got your permit you can take the test right away, or just work on your hours. You'll have one year to get 1500 hours, but if you don't do it in time, you can just apply for another limited permit and get an extention. As far as I can tell, it doesn't seem to matter if you have an LCAT or licensed mental health professional supervise you as far as licensure goes, however, for your own benefit it might be good to have an LCAT. Brucato drama therapist To: NYCCAT From: militello@...Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:15:01 +0000Subject: Permit and Lincensure Dear CAT community: I recently graduated for Pratt and am considering to take a positionin a school based agency for the fall 08 in NYC. I would like to get aCLEAR and step by step guidelines and advice on how to apply for thetemporary permit; what are the downsides of this procedure and what isbest to do to avoid delays and other possible inconveniences along theprocess. Second, how many hours, direct client and general and withinwhat time frame I need to have to get the license?. Third: Thesupervisor/supervision by a LCAT as opposed as other clinicalprofessionals; How does that works, what it is best to do?. Fourth:can anyone shed some light about this difficult and complicatedprocess? because all I have been reading about is nightmare storiesand am very concerned about it. I would like to sort out whats bestfor me to do ahead of time and weight all the pros and cons on how toapproach this process before hand.Thank you.Lucia Militello Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks to join you on Windows Live™ Messenger. Invite friends now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Why is a permit needed at all? If you've just graduated shouldn't you just be working towards your hours to apply for your ATR? (As a first step....)? Subject: RE: Permit and LincensureTo: nyccat Date: Friday, June 13, 2008, 9:55 AM I also work in an agency based in a school and have applied for my limited permit. It has taken three months, but it is finally on the way. It if a frustrating process. Here is what I suggest. Apply as far in advance as possible. Call them after a month has passed and check on the status. Don't be afraid to keep bugging them about it. You have to apply for licensure and give them the $345 dollars and apply for a limited permit for $70 at the same time. It seems backward to me, but that's how it is. After you've got your permit you can take the test right away, or just work on your hours. You'll have one year to get 1500 hours, but if you don't do it in time, you can just apply for another limited permit and get an extention. As far as I can tell, it doesn't seem to matter if you have an LCAT or licensed mental health professional supervise you as far as licensure goes, however, for your own benefit it might be good to have an LCAT. Brucatodrama therapist To: NYCCAT From: militello@...Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:15:01 +0000Subject: Permit and Lincensure Dear CAT community: I recently graduated for Pratt and am considering to take a positionin a school based agency for the fall 08 in NYC. I would like to get aCLEAR and step by step guidelines and advice on how to apply for thetemporary permit; what are the downsides of this procedure and what isbest to do to avoid delays and other possible inconveniences along theprocess. Second, how many hours, direct client and general and withinwhat time frame I need to have to get the license?. Third: Thesupervisor/supervis ion by a LCAT as opposed as other clinicalprofessionals; How does that works, what it is best to do?. Fourth:can anyone shed some light about this difficult and complicatedprocess? because all I have been reading about is nightmare storiesand am very concerned about it. I would like to sort out whats bestfor me to do ahead of time and weight all the pros and cons on how toapproach this process before hand.Thank you.Lucia Militello Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks to join you on Windows Live™ Messenger. Invite friends now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 What agency? I also work for a school based agency and completed this process. Maybe I can help you. Subject: Permit and LincensureTo: NYCCAT Date: Thursday, June 12, 2008, 3:15 PM Dear CAT community: I recently graduated for Pratt and am considering to take a positionin a school based agency for the fall 08 in NYC. I would like to get aCLEAR and step by step guidelines and advice on how to apply for thetemporary permit; what are the downsides of this procedure and what isbest to do to avoid delays and other possible inconveniences along theprocess. Second, how many hours, direct client and general and withinwhat time frame I need to have to get the license?. Third: Thesupervisor/supervis ion by a LCAT as opposed as other clinicalprofessionals; How does that works, what it is best to do?. Fourth:can anyone shed some light about this difficult and complicatedprocess? because all I have been reading about is nightmare storiesand am very concerned about it. I would like to sort out whats bestfor me to do ahead of time and weight all the pros and cons on how toapproach this process before hand.Thank you.Lucia Militello Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 Your hours don't count towards your license untill after you have received your permit. Therfore if you wait till after you get your ATR to apply for your permit and/or license you would still have to complete an additional 1500 hours. I applied for my permit and am now able to count my hours towards both my ATR and license. They make this all so confusing but this is the info I was able to get. -Sara From: Brucato <nicolebrucato@ hotmail.com>Subject: RE: Permit and LincensureTo: nyccatyahoogroups (DOT) comDate: Friday, June 13, 2008, 9:55 AM I also work in an agency based in a school and have applied for my limited permit. It has taken three months, but it is finally on the way. It if a frustrating process. Here is what I suggest. Apply as far in advance as possible. Call them after a month has passed and check on the status. Don't be afraid to keep bugging them about it. You have to apply for licensure and give them the $345 dollars and apply for a limited permit for $70 at the same time. It seems backward to me, but that's how it is. After you've got your permit you can take the test right away, or just work on your hours. You'll have one year to get 1500 hours, but if you don't do it in time, you can just apply for another limited permit and get an extention. As far as I can tell, it doesn't seem to matter if you have an LCAT or licensed mental health professional supervise you as far as licensure goes, however, for your own benefit it might be good to have an LCAT. Brucatodrama therapist To: NYCCATyahoogroups (DOT) comFrom: militello@sprintmai l.comDate: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:15:01 +0000Subject: Permit and Lincensure Dear CAT community: I recently graduated for Pratt and am considering to take a positionin a school based agency for the fall 08 in NYC. I would like to get aCLEAR and step by step guidelines and advice on how to apply for thetemporary permit; what are the downsides of this procedure and what isbest to do to avoid delays and other possible inconveniences along theprocess. Second, how many hours, direct client and general and withinwhat time frame I need to have to get the license?. Third: Thesupervisor/supervis ion by a LCAT as opposed as other clinicalprofessionals; How does that works, what it is best to do?. Fourth:can anyone shed some light about this difficult and complicatedprocess? because all I have been reading about is nightmare storiesand am very concerned about it. I would like to sort out whats bestfor me to do ahead of time and weight all the pros and cons on how toapproach this process before hand.Thank you.Lucia Militello Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks to join you on Windows Live™ Messenger. Invite friends now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 It is illegal in the state of NY to practice creative art therapy without a limited permit or license. The ATR is the art therapy national credential, but the state credential is the LCAT. Once there is a state license in place for any mental health practitioner, you must receive it to practice the discipline. You can not count your work hours toward the LCAT until you have your limited permit. As someone who struggled through this process and had to redo all my hours for a second time to get my LCAT, I strongly suggest that you get your application in as early as possible. You must have a limited permit number before you can start counting hours and this can take months. The steps of the ATR and LCAT can happen simultaneously. You can count some of the same hours toward both. Hope this helps. Steerman, MPS, ATR-BC, LCAT > > From: Brucato & lt;nicolebrucato@ > hotmail.com & gt; > Subject: RE: Permit and Lincensure > To: nyccatyahoogroups (DOT) com > Date: Friday, June 13, 2008, 9:55 AM > > > I also work in an agency based in a school and have applied > for my limited permit. & nbsp; It has taken three months, > but it is finally on the way. & nbsp; It if a frustrating > process. & nbsp; Here is what I suggest. & nbsp; Apply > as far in advance as possible. & nbsp; Call them after a > month has passed and check on the status. & nbsp; > Don't be afraid to keep bugging them about > it. & nbsp; You have to apply for licensure and give them > the $345 dollars and apply for a limited permit for $70 at > the same time. & nbsp; It seems backward to me, but > that's how it is. & nbsp; After you've got your > permit you can take the test right away, or just work on > your hours. & nbsp; You'll have one year to get 1500 > hours, but if you don't do it in time, you can just > apply for another limited permit and get an > extention. & nbsp; As far as I can tell, it doesn't > seem to matter if you have an LCAT or licensed mental > health professional supervise you as far as licensure goes, > however, for your > own benefit it might be good to have an LCAT. > & nbsp; > Brucato > drama therapist > > > > > > To: NYCCATyahoogroups (DOT) com > From: militello@sprintmai l.com > Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:15:01 +0000 > Subject: Permit and Lincensure > > > > > Dear CAT community: > > I recently graduated for Pratt and am considering to take a > position > in a school based agency for the fall 08 in NYC. I would > like to get a > CLEAR and step by step guidelines and advice on how to > apply for the > temporary permit; what are the downsides of this procedure > and what is > best to do to avoid delays and other possible > inconveniences along the > process. Second, how many hours, direct client and general > and within > what time frame I need to have to get the license?. Third: > The > supervisor/supervis ion by a LCAT as opposed as other > clinical > professionals; How does that works, what it is best to do?. > Fourth: > can anyone shed some light about this difficult and > complicated > process? because all I have been reading about is nightmare > stories > and am very concerned about it. I would like to sort out > whats best > for me to do ahead of time and weight all the pros and cons > on how to > approach this process before hand. > > Thank you. > > Lucia Militello > > > > > > Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social > networks to join you on Windows Liveâ„¢ Messenger. Invite > friends now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 I've learned that you need to be supervised by an LCAT in order have hours count towards the license. The LCAT supervisor needs to also work at the same site as you or within the same agency---getting outside supervision hours to count was unsuccessful, and my first permit application was declined due to this. Permit and Lincensure > > > > > Dear CAT community: > > I recently graduated for Pratt and am considering to take a > position > in a school based agency for the fall 08 in NYC. I would > like to get a > CLEAR and step by step guidelines and advice on how to > apply for the > temporary permit; what are the downsides of this procedure > and what is > best to do to avoid delays and other possible > inconveniences along the > process. Second, how many hours, direct client and general > and within > what time frame I need to have to get the license?. Third: > The > supervisor/supervis ion by a LCAT as opposed as other > clinical > professionals; How does that works, what it is best to do?. > Fourth: > can anyone shed some light about this difficult and > complicated > process? because all I have been reading about is nightmare > stories > and am very concerned about it. I would like to sort out > whats best > for me to do ahead of time and weight all the pros and cons > on how to > approach this process before hand. > > Thank you. > > Lucia Militello > > > > > > Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social > networks to join you on Windows Liveâ„¢ Messenger. Invite > friends now! Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news, more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 I just called the board and they told me that you can recieve outside supervision from an LCAT if you have a third party agreement between you and your employer. Also, you can be supervised by an LCSW or other mental health professional if they have at least three years experience in creative arts. Brucato To: NYCCAT From: berenaw@...Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:36:00 -0400Subject: Re: Permit and Lincensure I've learned that you need to be supervised by an LCAT in order have hours count towards the license. The LCAT supervisor needs to also work at the same site as you or within the same agency---getting outside supervision hours to count was unsuccessful, and my first permit application was declined due to this. Permit and Lincensure> > > > > Dear CAT community: > > I recently graduated for Pratt and am considering to take a> position> in a school based agency for the fall 08 in NYC. I would> like to get a> CLEAR and step by step guidelines and advice on how to> apply for the> temporary permit; what are the downsides of this procedure> and what is> best to do to avoid delays and other possible> inconveniences along the> process. Second, how many hours, direct client and general> and within> what time frame I need to have to get the license?. Third:> The> supervisor/supervis ion by a LCAT as opposed as other> clinical> professionals; How does that works, what it is best to do?.> Fourth:> can anyone shed some light about this difficult and> complicated> process? because all I have been reading about is nightmare> stories> and am very concerned about it. I would like to sort out> whats best> for me to do ahead of time and weight all the pros and cons> on how to> approach this process before hand.> > Thank you.> > Lucia Militello> > > > > > Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social> networks to join you on Windows Live™ Messenger. Invite> friends now! Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news, more! It’s easy to add contacts from Facebook and other social sites through Windows Live™ Messenger. Learn How. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 13, 2008 Report Share Posted June 13, 2008 You know it is just a complicated process, more complicated than they made it appear. In my case ,with a per diem hospice job, my application was originally denied even with the third party agreement- I had an outside supervisor and my employer , documentation from my employer/supervisor etc. everyone was OK with the outside supervision.... Another issue came to surface, which I think is important to let others know about when seeking outside supervision, is that they ask for a Operating Certificate to indicate that Creative Art Therapist's are able to be employed/practice in the setting where Creative Arts Therapy will take place . The Hospice where I worked had a Operating Certificate that didn't have the profession listed because CAT's are paid via fundraising & it was also dated 1998. Therefore, I could not be supervised by someone outside Hospice and my application was denied. Lucia, you might want to check out about the Operating Certificate and make it clear that CAT's are indicated. Permit and Lincensure > > > > > Dear CAT community: > > I recently graduated for Pratt and am considering to take a > position > in a school based agency for the fall 08 in NYC. I would > like to get a > CLEAR and step by step guidelines and advice on how to > apply for the > temporary permit; what are the downsides of this procedure > and what is > best to do to avoid delays and other possible > inconveniences along the > process. Second, how many hours, direct client and general > and within > what time frame I need to have to get the license?. Third: > The > supervisor/supervis ion by a LCAT as opposed as other > clinical > professionals; How does that works, what it is best to do?. > Fourth: > can anyone shed some light about this difficult and > complicated > process? because all I have been reading about is nightmare > stories > and am very concerned about it. I would like to sort out > whats best > for me to do ahead of time and weight all the pros and cons > on how to > approach this process before hand. > > Thank you. > > Lucia Militello > > > > > > Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social > networks to join you on Windows Live™ Messenger. Invite > friends now! Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news, more! It’s easy to add contacts from Facebook and other social sites through Windows Live™ Messenger. Learn How. Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news, more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2008 Report Share Posted June 15, 2008 I see that you said you work in a school Nichole. I am in the process of looking for a dance therapy job in either a hospital or a school but I am wondering if it is even possible to collect my hours towards my NY state license in a school setting. I heard that you have to be in a clinical setting, so does this mean a school is out of the question even if it has a psychologist on the staff. I am still not sure if I should bother applying for a job in a school setting if it will be impossible to collect my hours. Do you know anything about this? Any advice would be appreciated. Genevieve Prizeman Permit and Lincensure Dear CAT community: I recently graduated for Pratt and am considering to take a positionin a school based agency for the fall 08 in NYC. I would like to get aCLEAR and step by step guidelines and advice on how to apply for thetemporary permit; what are the downsides of this procedure and what isbest to do to avoid delays and other possible inconveniences along theprocess. Second, how many hours, direct client and general and withinwhat time frame I need to have to get the license?. Third: Thesupervisor/supervision by a LCAT as opposed as other clinicalprofessionals; How does that works, what it is best to do?. Fourth:can anyone shed some light about this difficult and complicatedprocess? because all I have been reading about is nightmare storiesand am very concerned about it. I would like to sort out whats bestfor me to do ahead of time and weight all the pros and cons on how toapproach this process before hand.Thank you.Lucia Militello _________________________________________________________________ Instantly invite friends from Facebook and other social networks to join you on Windows LiveT Messenger. https://www.invite2messenger.net/im/?source=TXT_EML_WLH_InviteFriends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 16, 2008 Report Share Posted June 16, 2008 It's worth noting that the standards for where LCATS can get clinical hours is comparable to those of other mental health professions, like Social Work. The Dept of Professions requires the Operating Certificate (which all agencies providing mental health services, like clinics and psych hospitals, have) as a requirement for LMSW's pursuing their clinical license (LCSW). To quote from the website: " General hospitals, schools, and community-based organizations " are not considered " clinical " sites. So, it seems that the LCAT is being held to that higher standard. This is probably not in our best interest because of the limited supply of clinic-based work for CATS. Drena Fagen, LMSW, LCAT drena@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 Thanks for this information . I am confused by some of the OP information. For example, I am an LCSW and a registered poetry-writing therapist and soon to finish my psychodrama certification (hopefully next year). Are you saying that under these guidelines of NYS licensure I cannot call myself a CAT without a permit or LCAT? I would imagine I can still provide psychotherapy (under my psychotherapy license) that has a creative focus per my already received training. I am all for regulated practice but sometimes get bogged down in what the new "allowances" are. Any clarification would be much appreciated. Scherlong, LCSW, PTR It is illegal in the state of NY to practice creative art therapy without a limited permit or license. The ATR is the art therapy national credential, but the state credential is the LCAT. Once there is a state license in place for any mental health practitioner, you must receive it to practice the discipline. You can not count your work hours toward the LCAT until you have your limited permit. As someone who struggled through this process and had to redo all my hours for a second time to get my LCAT, I strongly suggest that you get your application in as early as possible. You must have a limited permit number before you can start counting hours and this can take months. The steps of the ATR and LCAT can happen simultaneously. You can count some of the same hours toward both. Hope this helps. Steerman, MPS, ATR-BC, LCATGas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 Your situation sounds very particular, I would suggest to everyone that they contact Hamilton, the executive secretary of the board at the Office of Professions. He is the man with the final say, and he does respond to emails, however I believe unless you are working in an exempt facility that you will need to have a permit or license to practice any form of Creative Arts Therapy. What the law provides for us is a very specific criteria we have to meet to be able to practice our profession. While it is very confusing and specific, it stops people witout the proper credentials from falsifing what they do. Just to be clear, I am getting all the info I am sharing on the listserve from my own hassle with the state. I received my information, either from Hamilton directly, or the OP website directly. i have heard there are changes since I have been licensed so I HIGHLY suggest contacting the state directly. Mr. Hamilton's email address is: DHAMILTO@... Good Luck! Subject: Re: Permit and LincensureTo: NYCCAT Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 11:01 AM Thanks for this information . I am confused by some of the OP information. For example, I am an LCSW and a registered poetry-writing therapist and soon to finish my psychodrama certification (hopefully next year). Are you saying that under these guidelines of NYS licensure I cannot call myself a CAT without a permit or LCAT? I would imagine I can still provide psychotherapy (under my psychotherapy license) that has a creative focus per my already received training. I am all for regulated practice but sometimes get bogged down in what the new "allowances" are. Any clarification would be much appreciated. Scherlong, LCSW, PTR In a message dated 6/13/2008 12:30:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, asteermanyahoo (DOT) com writes: It is illegal in the state of NY to practice creative art therapy without a limited permit or license. The ATR is the art therapy national credential, but the state credential is the LCAT. Once there is a state license in place for any mental health practitioner, you must receive it to practice the discipline. You can not count your work hours toward the LCAT until you have your limited permit. As someone who struggled through this process and had to redo all my hours for a second time to get my LCAT, I strongly suggest that you get your application in as early as possible. You must have a limited permit number before you can start counting hours and this can take months. The steps of the ATR and LCAT can happen simultaneously. You can count some of the same hours toward both. Hope this helps. Steerman, MPS, ATR-BC, LCAT Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 Dear , As far as I understand the law, and from sitting in on several meetings at the state education dept while the law was being finalized, you may call yourself a certified poetry therapist and will soon be able to call yourself a certified psychodramatist, but what you will not be able to do is call yourself a licensed creative arts therapist. You are allowed, under the scope of practice as a social worker, call what you do creative arts therapy because you have completed training as a creative arts therapist. I am unclear as to how the state determines one to have completed training, but what the law does is prevent a social worker, for example, with a little bit of training, or none at all, from declaring that they do creative arts therapy. Walters Re: Permit and LincensureTo: NYCCAT Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 11:01 AM Thanks for this information . I am confused by some of the OP information. For example, I am an LCSW and a registered poetry-writing therapist and soon to finish my psychodrama certification (hopefully next year). Are you saying that under these guidelines of NYS licensure I cannot call myself a CAT without a permit or LCAT? I would imagine I can still provide psychotherapy (under my psychotherapy license) that has a creative focus per my already received training. I am all for regulated practice but sometimes get bogged down in what the new "allowances" are. Any clarification would be much appreciated. Scherlong, LCSW, PTR In a message dated 6/13/2008 12:30:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, asteermanyahoo (DOT) com writes: It is illegal in the state of NY to practice creative art therapy without a limited permit or license. The ATR is the art therapy national credential, but the state credential is the LCAT. Once there is a state license in place for any mental health practitioner, you must receive it to practice the discipline. You can not count your work hours toward the LCAT until you have your limited permit. As someone who struggled through this process and had to redo all my hours for a second time to get my LCAT, I strongly suggest that you get your application in as early as possible. You must have a limited permit number before you can start counting hours and this can take months. The steps of the ATR and LCAT can happen simultaneously. You can count some of the same hours toward both. Hope this helps. Steerman, MPS, ATR-BC, LCAT Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 LCSW is one of the exempt professions, meaning that you may practice creative arts therapy without the creative arts therapy license. You may not call yourself a Licensed Creative Arts Therapist without the license, of course. Under any license, you are limited to practicing within your expertise. So you can practice poetry therapy under a social work license as long as you are competent to do so. Milia At 09:57 AM 6/25/2008, you wrote: Dear , As far as I understand the law, and from sitting in on several meetings at the state education dept while the law was being finalized, you may call yourself a certified poetry therapist and will soon be able to call yourself a certified psychodramatist, but what you will not be able to do is call yourself a licensed creative arts therapist. You are allowed, under the scope of practice as a social worker, call what you do creative arts therapy because you have completed training as a creative arts therapist. I am unclear as to how the state determines one to have completed training, but what the law does is prevent a social worker, for example, with a little bit of training, or none at all, from declaring that they do creative arts therapy. Walters Re: Permit and Lincensure To: NYCCAT Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 11:01 AM Thanks for this information . I am confused by some of the OP information. For example, I am an LCSW and a registered poetry-writing therapist and soon to finish my psychodrama certification (hopefully next year). Are you saying that under these guidelines of NYS licensure I cannot call myself a CAT without a permit or LCAT? I would imagine I can still provide psychotherapy (under my psychotherapy license) that has a creative focus per my already received training. I am all for regulated practice but sometimes get bogged down in what the new " allowances " are. Any clarification would be much appreciated. Scherlong, LCSW, PTR In a message dated 6/13/2008 12:30:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, asteermanyahoo (DOT) com writes: It is illegal in the state of NY to practice creative art therapy without a limited permit or license. The ATR is the art therapy national credential, but the state credential is the LCAT. Once there is a state license in place for any mental health practitioner, you must receive it to practice the discipline. You can not count your work hours toward the LCAT until you have your limited permit. As someone who struggled through this process and had to redo all my hours for a second time to get my LCAT, I strongly suggest that you get your application in as early as possible. You must have a limited permit number before you can start counting hours and this can take months. The steps of the ATR and LCAT can happen simultaneously. You can count some of the same hours toward both. Hope this helps. Steerman, MPS, ATR-BC, LCAT Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 So my question is how does one determine if someone is competent, short of their being certified or registered as is. What about an LCSW who says they have competed a course of study in art therapy, but it is not one that leads to certification as an art therapist? Who determines is someone has expertise. This is a particular concern to psychodramatists because there are many people out there who claim to offer psychodrama because they have been trained in something called heart centered psychodrama through trainers who have no credentials through the American board of Examiners on psychodrama. My guess is that there are LCSWs who offer art or dance therapy without being credentialed, too. Who gets to determine their level of expertise? Walters Re: Permit and Lincensure To: NYCCAT Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 11:01 AM Thanks for this information . I am confused by some of the OP information. For example, I am an LCSW and a registered poetry-writing therapist and soon to finish my psychodrama certification (hopefully next year). Are you saying that under these guidelines of NYS licensure I cannot call myself a CAT without a permit or LCAT? I would imagine I can still provide psychotherapy (under my psychotherapy license) that has a creative focus per my already received training. I am all for regulated practice but sometimes get bogged down in what the new "allowances" are. Any clarification would be much appreciated. Scherlong, LCSW, PTR In a message dated 6/13/2008 12:30:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, asteermanyahoo (DOT) com writes: It is illegal in the state of NY to practice creative art therapy without a limited permit or license. The ATR is the art therapy national credential, but the state credential is the LCAT. Once there is a state license in place for any mental health practitioner, you must receive it to practice the discipline. You can not count your work hours toward the LCAT until you have your limited permit. As someone who struggled through this process and had to redo all my hours for a second time to get my LCAT, I strongly suggest that you get your application in as early as possible. You must have a limited permit number before you can start counting hours and this can take months. The steps of the ATR and LCAT can happen simultaneously. You can count some of the same hours toward both. Hope this helps. Steerman, MPS, ATR-BC, LCAT Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 I appreciate all of the comments about this complicated issue and the discussion seems rich. I am still a bit confused...I understand of course title protection and would never call myself a "licensed" anything if I am in fact not. The question (and I guess I could email Hamilton) is around the idea of practicing a creative art therapy as a licensed mental health professional and the ethical/legal ramifications around this if there are any. Sorry if I am repeating myself...just not sure as there seemed to be some conflicting answers on this piece. thanks all So my question is how does one determine if someone is competent, short of their being certified or registered as is. What about an LCSW who says they have competed a course of study in art therapy, but it is not one that leads to certification as an art therapist? Who determines is someone has expertise. This is a particular concern to psychodramatists because there are many people out there who claim to offer psychodrama because they have been trained in something called heart centered psychodrama through trainers who have no credentials through the American board of Examiners on psychodrama. My guess is that there are LCSWs who offer art or dance therapy without being credentialed, too. Who gets to determine their level of expertise? WaltersGas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 Under state licensing/certified codes,as far as my knowledge goes,,,Licensed Clinical Social workers,as are Phd.Psychologists and psychiatrists are "allowed" to practice in all modalites. I also would never consider calling myself an art therapist,nor a psychodramatist even though I have had extensive training,and individual supervision/mentoring in both. (not certified) I do,however offer some of the techniques and/or skills I have acquired with some clients.,though most of my practice is traditional "talk" psychodynamic psychotherapy. Psychiatrists and Psychologists have been offering both for years as part of their practice,especially when they know clients who are inclined to be more apt to communicate non verbally,but through their artistic expression.(I am being very broad here,knowing full well that making art and being involved with drama is very different than art therapy or psychodrama Carol Ferrante Smuckler,LCSW R artist/psychotherapist I appreciate all of the comments about this complicated issue and the discussion seems rich. I am still a bit confused...I understand of course title protection and would never call myself a "licensed" anything if I am in fact not. The question (and I guess I could email Hamilton) is around the idea of practicing a creative art therapy as a licensed mental health professional and the ethical/legal ramifications around this if there are any. Sorry if I am repeating myself...just not sure as there seemed to be some conflicting answers on this piece. thanks all In a message dated 6/25/2008 5:45:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, hvpi@....com writes: So my question is how does one determine if someone is competent, short of their being certified or registered as is. What about an LCSW who says they have competed a course of study in art therapy, but it is not one that leads to certification as an art therapist? Who determines is someone has expertise. This is a particular concern to psychodramatists because there are many people out there who claim to offer psychodrama because they have been trained in something called heart centered psychodrama through trainers who have no credentials through the American board of Examiners on psychodrama. My guess is that there are LCSWs who offer art or dance therapy without being credentialed, too. Who gets to determine their level of expertise? Walters Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 Yes, that's right,you can't say you're licensed.that is fraud...to say you have expertise is different. As someone who is certified as a creative arts therapist, in this case poetry, there is no reason for you to refrain from stating that you are a creative arts therapist...you just cant say you are a licensed cat...instead, you are a licensed social worker who is certified to practice poetry therapy...the law clearly states that you are within your scope of practice as an LCSW who has expertise in the field of poetry therapy.Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 This sort of undermines the whole idea of licensure, doesn't it. I have no problem with people saying they practice CAT if they are indeed, certified or registered by one of the CAT national organization, but the way this appears is that any LCSW can say they are practicing CAT. How does that protect the consumer? I wonder what we can do? Any ideas? Re: Permit and LincensureTo: NYCCAT Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 11:01 AMThanks for this information . I am confused by some of the OP information. For example, I am an LCSW and a registered poetry-writing therapist and soon to finish my psychodrama certification (hopefully next year). Are you saying that under these guidelines of NYS licensure I cannot call myself a CAT without a permit or LCAT? I would imagine I can still provide psychotherapy (under my psychotherapy license) that has a creative focus per my already received training. I am all for regulated practice but sometimes get bogged down in what the new "allowances" are.Any clarification would be much appreciated. Scherlong, LCSW, PTR In a message dated 6/13/2008 12:30:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, asteermanyahoo (DOT) com writes:It is illegal in the state of NY to practice creative art therapy without a limited permit or license. The ATR is the art therapy national credential, but the state credential is the LCAT. Once there is a state license in place for any mental health practitioner, you must receive it to practice the discipline. You can not count your work hours toward the LCAT until you have your limited permit. As someone who struggled through this process and had to redo all my hours for a second time to get my LCAT, I strongly suggest that you get your application in as early as possible. You must have a limited permit number before you can start counting hours and this can take months. The steps of the ATR and LCAT can happen simultaneously. You can count some of the same hours toward both. Hope this helps. Steerman, MPS, ATR-BC, LCATGas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 A few years ago, le Fraenkel and I went to Albany to meet with Dr. Hamilton. I asked him how anyone with other licenses, e.g., LCSW and who practices one of the CATs, would know whether that person received training. His response was quite remarkable in that he said the client could make a complaint if one didn't have the training. How a client would know whether or not a LCSW, for example, would have the training is beyond my comprehension. It is an extremely frustrating situation and le and I certainly were not happy with this meeting. Elissa White ADTR, CMA, LCAT > So my question is how does one determine if someone is competent, > short of their being certified or registered as is. What about > an LCSW who says they have competed a course of study in art therapy, > but it is not one that leads to certification as an art therapist? Who > determines is someone has expertise. This is a particular concern to > psychodramatists because there are many people out there who claim to > offer psychodrama because they have been trained in something called > heart centered psychodrama through trainers who have no credentials > through the American board of Examiners on psychodrama. My guess is > that there are LCSWs who offer art or dance therapy without being > credentialed, too. Who gets to determine their level of expertise? > Walters >> Re: Permit and Lincensure >>> To: NYCCAT >>> Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 11:01 AM >>> >>> Thanks for this information . I am confused by some of the OP >>> information. For example, I am an LCSW and a registered >>> poetry-writing therapist and soon to finish my psychodrama >>> certification (hopefully next year). Are you saying that under >>> these guidelines of NYS licensure I cannot call myself a CAT without >>> a permit or LCAT? I would imagine I can still provide psychotherapy >>> (under my psychotherapy license) that has a creative focus per my >>> already received training. I am all for regulated practice but >>> sometimes get bogged down in what the new " allowances " are. >>> Any clarification would be much appreciated. >>> Scherlong, LCSW, PTR >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 6/13/2008 12:30:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >>> asteermanyahoo (DOT) com writes: >>> >>> >>> >>> It is illegal in the state of NY to practice creative art therapy >>> without a limited permit or license. The ATR is the art therapy >>> national credential, but the state credential is the LCAT. Once >>> there is a state license in place for any mental health >>> practitioner, you must receive it to practice the discipline. You >>> can not count your work hours toward the LCAT until you have your >>> limited permit. As someone who struggled through this process and >>> had to redo all my hours for a second time to get my LCAT, I >>> strongly suggest that you get your application in as early as >>> possible. You must have a limited permit number before you can start >>> counting hours and this can take months. The steps of the ATR and >>> LCAT can happen simultaneously. You can count some of the same hours >>> toward both. >>> Hope this helps. >>> Steerman, MPS, ATR-BC, LCAT >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient >>> used cars. >>> >>> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 , When we raised this issue with Hamilton and got his response I felt he wasn't interested in doing anything about this. I had absolutely no ideas about what to do at that time and unfortunately, I really have no suggestions now. Elissa > This sort of undermines the whole idea of licensure, doesn't it. I > have no problem with people saying they practice CAT if they are > indeed, certified or registered by one of the CAT national > organization, but the way this appears is that any LCSW can say they > are practicing CAT. How does that protect the consumer? I wonder what > we can do? Any ideas? > >> Re: Permit and Lincensure >>>>> To: NYCCAT >>>>> Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008, 11:01 AM >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for this information . I am confused by some of the >>>>> OP information. For example, I am an LCSW and a registered >>>>> poetry-writing therapist and soon to finish my psychodrama >>>>> certification (hopefully next year). Are you saying that under >>>>> these guidelines of NYS licensure I cannot call myself a CAT >>>>> without a permit or LCAT? I would imagine I can still provide >>>>> psychotherapy (under my psychotherapy license) that has a creative >>>>> focus per my already received training. I am all for regulated >>>>> practice but sometimes get bogged down in what the new >>>>> " allowances " are. >>>>> Any clarification would be much appreciated. >>>>> Scherlong, LCSW, PTR >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> In a message dated 6/13/2008 12:30:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >>>>> asteermanyahoo (DOT) com writes: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It is illegal in the state of NY to practice creative art therapy >>>>> without a limited permit or license. The ATR is the art therapy >>>>> national credential, but the state credential is the LCAT. Once >>>>> there is a state license in place for any mental health >>>>> practitioner, you must receive it to practice the discipline. You >>>>> can not count your work hours toward the LCAT until you have your >>>>> limited permit. As someone who struggled through this process and >>>>> had to redo all my hours for a second time to get my LCAT, I >>>>> strongly suggest that you get your application in as early as >>>>> possible. You must have a limited permit number before you can >>>>> start counting hours and this can take months. The steps of the >>>>> ATR and LCAT can happen simultaneously. You can count some of the >>>>> same hours toward both. >>>>> Hope this helps. >>>>> Steerman, MPS, ATR-BC, LCAT >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient >>>>> used cars. >>>>> >>>>> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 As someone who is certified as a creative arts therapist, in this case poetry, there is no reason for you to refrain from stating that you are a creative arts therapist...you just cant say you are a licensed cat...instead, you are a licensed social worker who is certified to practice poetry therapy...the law clearly states that you are within your scope of practice as an LCSW who has expertise in the field of poetry therapy. Re: Permit and Lincensure I appreciate all of the comments about this complicated issue and the discussion seems rich. I am still a bit confused...I understand of course title protection and would never call myself a "licensed" anything if I am in fact not. The question (and I guess I could email Hamilton) is around the idea of practicing a creative art therapy as a licensed mental health professional and the ethical/legal ramifications around this if there are any. Sorry if I am repeating myself...just not sure as there seemed to be some conflicting answers on this piece. thanks all In a message dated 6/25/2008 5:45:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, hvpi@....com writes: So my question is how does one determine if someone is competent, short of their being certified or registered as is. What about an LCSW who says they have competed a course of study in art therapy, but it is not one that leads to certification as an art therapist? Who determines is someone has expertise. This is a particular concern to psychodramatists because there are many people out there who claim to offer psychodrama because they have been trained in something called heart centered psychodrama through trainers who have no credentials through the American board of Examiners on psychodrama. My guess is that there are LCSWs who offer art or dance therapy without being credentialed, too. Who gets to determine their level of expertise? Walters Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2008 Report Share Posted June 25, 2008 I don't think the question is whether or not one is allowed, as a licensed mental health professional, to utilize modalities such as art and psychodrama..I think the question is whether or not one can advertise, or state, that one IS or one USES creative arts therapies when one has not completed training,. .....that gets sticky because there is no one determining the criteria for someone having been trained other than the organizations that are part of NCATA, And the law states "has expertise in"....well, who decides that. Clearly Hamilton isn't interested in doing so. Re: Permit and Lincensure Under state licensing/certified codes,as far as my knowledge goes,,,Licensed Clinical Social workers,as are Phd.Psychologists and psychiatrists are "allowed" to practice in all modalites. I also would never consider calling myself an art therapist,nor a psychodramatist even though I have had extensive training,and individual supervision/mentoring in both. (not certified) I do,however offer some of the techniques and/or skills I have acquired with some clients.,though most of my practice is traditional "talk" psychodynamic psychotherapy. Psychiatrists and Psychologists have been offering both for years as part of their practice,especially when they know clients who are inclined to be more apt to communicate non verbally,but through their artistic expression.(I am being very broad here,knowing full well that making art and being involved with drama is very different than art therapy or psychodrama Carol Ferrante Smuckler,LCSW R artist/psychotherapist In a message dated 6/25/2008 10:34:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, NSCOUNSLRaol writes: I appreciate all of the comments about this complicated issue and the discussion seems rich. I am still a bit confused...I understand of course title protection and would never call myself a "licensed" anything if I am in fact not. The question (and I guess I could email Hamilton) is around the idea of practicing a creative art therapy as a licensed mental health professional and the ethical/legal ramifications around this if there are any. Sorry if I am repeating myself...just not sure as there seemed to be some conflicting answers on this piece. thanks all In a message dated 6/25/2008 5:45:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, hvpi@....com writes: So my question is how does one determine if someone is competent, short of their being certified or registered as is. What about an LCSW who says they have competed a course of study in art therapy, but it is not one that leads to certification as an art therapist? Who determines is someone has expertise. This is a particular concern to psychodramatists because there are many people out there who claim to offer psychodrama because they have been trained in something called heart centered psychodrama through trainers who have no credentials through the American board of Examiners on psychodrama. My guess is that there are LCSWs who offer art or dance therapy without being credentialed, too. Who gets to determine their level of expertise? Walters Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 thanks all for the additional clarification on this, I appreciate it! ;-) Under state licensing/certified codes,as far as my knowledge goes,,,Licensed Clinical Social workers,as are Phd.Psychologists and psychiatrists are "allowed" to practice in all modalites. I also would never consider calling myself an art therapist,nor a psychodramatist even though I have had extensive training,and individual supervision/mentoring in both. (not certified) I do,however offer some of the techniques and/or skills I have acquired with some clients.,though most of my practice is traditional "talk" psychodynamic psychotherapy. Psychiatrists and Psychologists have been offering both for years as part of their practice,especially when they know clients who are inclined to be more apt to communicate non verbally,but through their artistic expression.(I am being very broad here,knowing full well that making art and being involved with drama is very different than art therapy or psychodrama Carol Ferrante Smuckler,LCSW R artist/psychotherapistGas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 26, 2008 Report Share Posted June 26, 2008 , Please do email Hamilton and see what he says. I'd appreciate hearing his reply - What I understood is that if a person holds a license in another mental health field, e.g., social work and that person is trained in one of the creative arts therapies that social worker could practice the CAT s/he is trained in, but they could not call themselves LCAT. The question I asked Hamilton is how does one know that the person is educated and competent to do a CAT? His response is that if s/he was not trained, then the client could complain. I think there are ethical and legal ramifications also, but I just don't know what they are -- There are appears to be a hierarchy even in the licensing law where a CAT seems to be low man on the totem pole. Good luck in your search and I would appreciate knowing what you discover. Regards, Elissa > I appreciate all of the comments about this complicated issue and the > discussion seems rich. I am still a bit confused...I understand of > course title protection and would never call myself a " licensed " > anything if I am in fact not. The question (and I guess I could email > Hamilton) is around the idea of practicing a creative art > therapy as a licensed mental health professional and the ethical/legal > ramifications around this if there are any. Sorry if I am repeating > myself...just not sure as there seemed to be some conflicting answers > on this piece. > thanks all > > > In a message dated 6/25/2008 5:45:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > hvpi@... writes: >> >> So my question is how does one determine if someone is competent, >> short of their being certified or registered as is. What about >> an LCSW who says they have competed a course of study in art therapy, >> but it is not one that leads to certification as an art therapist? >> Who determines is someone has expertise. This is a particular concern >> to psychodramatists because there are many people out there who claim >> to offer psychodrama because they have been trained in something >> called heart centered psychodrama through trainers who have no >> credentials through the American board of Examiners on psychodrama. >> My guess is that there are LCSWs who offer art or dance therapy >> without being credentialed, too. Who gets to determine their level of >> expertise? >> Walters > > > Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used > cars. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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