Re: Re: In addition...my last post on this subject

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KMSMITH, This subject seems to have met its ending...possibly a long time ago. This is my last post on the subject, and I am not going to engage in this useless banter any further. You have not given your name on this post, nor have you given the state in which you live, nor have you been clear or consistent with what what you are actually arguing. Therefore, I can no longer write in circles, arguing something that has no substantial backing from your end. You wrote: Lesie writes; "Only Art Therapists are qualified to interpret art work" this is inaccurate. Psychologists are trained and can give tests i.e. Draw a Person and others. They can 'interpret' said drawings. Again, your first post was about your rights as an art therapist. Now, it seems like you are simply arguing for

everyone else in the mental health field (inadequately, I must add). I do not know what your argument is anymore. Are you a psychologist with an art therapy degree? Giving a test is not practicing art therapy. You wrote: My responses were directed to comments such as this;"the more non-LCAT's use our work, or attempt to, the more our work gets diuted in the public eye. Also, at worst case scenario, if ever a NON_LCAT gets sued for some type of injury (or

death)..."What we should remember is that they are plenty of HIGHLY trained ATR's who may not meet the LCAT requirements for one reason or another. That was my opinion, which I stated at the end of that post....and my respose to that was: If you do not have an LCAT license in the state of New York, you cannot practice creative arts therapies. If other states are fine with it, I wish you the best. Devereaux's original message, stated below, simply asks the question of authenticity and legality of who can and cannot practice creative arts therapies in the state of New York. > > Let's remember your first post to Devereaux's question:> > > > Well, What is MY RIGHT? I have

my ATR, master's in a related > > field, 24+ graduate credits in Art Therapy, meet all ATCB's > > standards as well as AATA's. I may or may not qualify for the > LCAT depending on who you ask. > > Are you saying I should not have a career in Art Therapy > because of NY standards? Which I may or may not meet.> > My opinion you are exaggerating. Art is a great tool which can be used by any person really. Art can be incorporated into any therapy modality. Agreed though, not anyone can claim to be an art therapist.> What exactly are you arguing here? You seem to be bouncing back and forth, and it sounds like it is for the sake of arguing. Please see: http://www.op.nysed.gov and type in "Creative Arts Therapy" in the search box. This will hopefully

answer any further questions you have about licensure in the state of New York. You can call them if you need to continue arguing. Regards, Jenn Tantia Following is the original message that opened this discussion: > > > > > > Devereaux <christina@> wrote:> > > Hi CAT community!> > > > > > I'm in need of some clarification, as I feel like I'm > starting > > to get confused myself. I am an LCAT and LMHC, and work > primarily > > with children and families. I am a dance/movement therapist, > and > > proudly utilize this modality in my work despite my title by > my job > > being that of "children's counselor." On Friday, I had a > department > > meeting at my work which consists of myself, my direct >

supervisor (a > > LMSW), and another MSW. My supervisor is very supportive of > the use > > of expressive modalities in supporting the needs of the > population > > we serve. We were preparing an inservice training to tackle > > some "myths" that we believe some have about working with > children > > (i.e., that children must be able to talk about their > feelings, etc) > > and to really highlight the power of using non-verbal tools to > > assist in the therapeutic process.> > > > > > Here is my question: My supervisor (again..not a CAT..) was > > writing these important talking points down for use in the > inservice > > such as "Child counselors use modalities such as art therapy, > > dance/movement therapy, and play therapy".> > > > > > At this point, I stepped in: "Well, technically,

you cannot > > utilize the terminology of art therapy unless you are a > trained art > > therapist." She agreed that she would not call herself an "Art > > Therapist" but she vehemently disagreed that she could not use > the > > work that she is doing "art therapy" At this point, we got > into a > > huge debate about the scope of practice issues. I am aware > that she > > uses art in her therapy sessions with her clients, and I > suspect she > > works wonderfully using various media to assist with > intervention. > > but I stressed that you cannot call it "ART THERAPY" you could > call > > it utilizing "ART IN THERAPY". She again, vehemently > disagreed! I > > talked about the legislative efforts for this particular > reason, as > > it is confusing for the consumer, etc. I left the meeting so >

> dysregulated. and I know that it triggered all the stuff we > have in > > our field about being misunderstood, etc.> > > > > > Here is what I know about her: She got her Master's in > Social > > Work but did an internship where her primary supervisor was an > Art > > Therapist. She did not take art therapy coursework, but > possibly > > has had attended several CAT conferences. It is clear that she > has > > some strength in utilizing the art process to connect to her > > clients, but I'm very angry that she adamantly asserts that > she can > > say she is doing art therapy just because she did some > trainings > > along side one.> > > > > > AM I CORRECT?? I'm starting to question myself! Has anyone > > else experienced this? Someone help me understand.> > > >

> > Sincerely,> > > Devereaux, MA, LCAT, LMHC, ADTR, NCC> > > A proud Dance/movement therapist!! .

Tantia, DTR, LCAT

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I concur with Jenn about recent posting that are not signed. Is there someone monitoring this list serv?

Armeniox

Re: Re: In addition...my last post on this subject

KMSMITH,

This subject seems to have met its ending...possibly a long time ago. This is my last post on the subject, and I am not going to engage in this useless banter any further. You have not given your name on this post, nor have you given the state in which you live, nor have you been clear or consistent with what what you are actually arguing. Therefore, I can no longer write in circles, arguing something that has no substantial backing from your end.

You wrote:

Lesie writes; "Only Art Therapists are qualified to interpret art work" this is inaccurate. Psychologists are trained and can give tests i.e. Draw a Person and others. They can 'interpret' said drawings.

Again, your first post was about your rights as an art therapist. Now, it seems like you are simply arguing for everyone else in the mental health field (inadequately, I must add). I do not know what your argument is anymore.

Are you a psychologist with an art therapy degree? Giving a test is not practicing art therapy.

You wrote:

My responses were directed to comments such as this;"the more non-LCAT's use our work, or attempt to, the more our work gets diuted in the public eye. Also, at worst case scenario, if ever a NON_LCAT gets sued for some type of injury (or death)..."What we should remember is that they are plenty of HIGHLY trained ATR's who may not meet the LCAT requirements for one reason or another.

That was my opinion, which I stated at the end of that post....and my respose to that was: If you do not have an LCAT license in the state of New York, you cannot practice creative arts therapies. If other states are fine with it, I wish you the best.

Devereaux's original message, stated below, simply asks the question of authenticity and legality of who can and cannot practice creative arts therapies in the state of New York. > > Let's remember your first post to Devereaux's question:> > > > Well, What is MY RIGHT? I have my ATR, master's in a related > > field, 24+ graduate credits in Art Therapy, meet all ATCB's > > standards as well as AATA's. I may or may not qualify for the > LCAT depending on who you ask. > > Are you saying I should not have a career in Art Therapy > because of NY standards? Which I may or may not meet.> > My opinion you are exaggerating. Art is a great tool which can be used by any person really. Art can be incorporated into any therapy modality. Agreed though, not anyone can claim to be an art therapist.>

What exactly are you arguing here? You seem to be bouncing back and forth, and it sounds like it is for the sake of arguing.

Please see: http://www.op.nysed.gov and type in "Creative Arts Therapy" in the search box. This will hopefully answer any further questions you have about licensure in the state of New York. You can call them if you need to continue arguing.

Regards,

Jenn Tantia

Following is the original message that opened this discussion:

> > > > > > Devereaux <christina@> wrote:> > > Hi CAT community!> > > > > > I'm in need of some clarification, as I feel like I'm > starting > > to get confused myself. I am an LCAT and LMHC, and work > primarily > > with children and families. I am a dance/movement therapist, > and > > proudly utilize this modality in my work despite my title by > my job > > being that of "children's counselor." On Friday, I had a > department > > meeting at my work which consists of myself, my direct > supervisor (a > > LMSW), and another MSW. My supervisor is very supportive of > the use > > of expressive modalities in supporting the needs of the > population > > we serve. We were preparing an inservice training to tackle > > some "myths" that we believe some have about working with > children > > (i.e., that children must be able to talk about their > feelings, etc) > > and to really highlight the power of using non-verbal tools to > > assist in the therapeutic process.> > > > > > Here is my question: My supervisor (again..not a CAT..) was > > writing these important talking points down for use in the > inservice > > such as "Child counselors use modalities such as art therapy, > > dance/movement therapy, and play therapy".> > > > > > At this point, I stepped in: "Well, technically, you cannot > > utilize the terminology of art therapy unless you are a > trained art > > therapist." She agreed that she would not call herself an "Art > > Therapist" but she vehemently disagreed that she could not use > the > > work that she is doing "art therapy" At this point, we got > into a > > huge debate about the scope of practice issues. I am aware > that she > > uses art in her therapy sessions with her clients, and I > suspect she > > works wonderfully using various media to assist with > intervention. > > but I stressed that you cannot call it "ART THERAPY" you could > call > > it utilizing "ART IN THERAPY". She again, vehemently > disagreed! I > > talked about the legislative efforts for this particular > reason, as > > it is confusing for the consumer, etc. I left the meeting so > > dysregulated. and I know that it triggered all the stuff we > have in > > our field about being misunderstood, etc.> > > > > > Here is what I know about her: She got her Master's in > Social > > Work but did an internship where her primary supervisor was an > Art > > Therapist. She did not take art therapy coursework, but > possibly > > has had attended several CAT conferences. It is clear that she > has > > some strength in utilizing the art process to connect to her > > clients, but I'm very angry that she adamantly asserts that > she can > > say she is doing art therapy just because she did some > trainings > > along side one.> > > > > > AM I CORRECT?? I'm starting to question myself! Has anyone > > else experienced this? Someone help me understand.> > > > > > Sincerely,> > > Devereaux, MA, LCAT, LMHC, ADTR, NCC> > > A proud Dance/movement therapist!!

..

Tantia, DTR, LCAT

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