Re: On the Lady choosing me?

[Guest guest]

Ron, in my part of the world, we call it "the move"... women expect men to make THE MOVE.    this is what we respond to.. if there is no MOVE, well, no response.  How about it, NT wimmies... can you elaborate on your impression of THE MOVE?   jkz  Hello Houris, Oh my goodness, I’m about to dob myself in for promoting generalities again.  Bill, I hope you’re not looking! The concept here was suggested to me by one of my Psychologists.  She asked me one day how I went about selectingor picking out the women I wanted to marry (been there three times).  Just what had they all had in common that I picked them out?   She was trying among other things, to determine if I was going through the proverbial business of picking ‘the same’ woman every time.   So that was her suggestion. How can I explain it.  Well look at it this way.   I was never aggressive in going out and looking for a woman in those early days.  I have never been the one to take initiative.  I never went to the traditional places where one ‘picks up’ a prospective partner.  I did belong to a number of clubs and groups in my young days that however, very rarely put me in contact with young women.  Without the sense of Sexual Chemistry I could never pick up or interpret sexual signals from a person of the opposite sex.  (I recall one wry comment by my first wife, when she said that a girl would just about have me undressed and in bed before I’d realize what was happening).   Neither of course did I emit or send out appropriate sexual signals to others.   I simply, in the very best Aspie fashion, simply talked about my special interests, duly putting them first, before talking about the other person.  My third wife tells of how when we met (after contact through a newspaper advertisement) just about all I did through the first meeting, was to talk about myself., with barely a word or question about her!  Once I did advertise in an Australia wide relationships magazine to meet appropriate women.  I learnt that just about everyone who advertised therein, got some dozens of answers from all over Oz.  I got fully one answer only from a lady in another state.   But of course, I made no attempt to make myself appealing.  I described myself with absolute honesty, just hoping to find someone who had the same interests and passions.  I couldn’t honestly say I went to Pubs, Restaurants, Night Clubs, Dance places, and I just hated parties.  And I made no attempt to describe myself as in any way sexually appealing or motivated.   As it happened I did become friends for a brief time with the lady who wrote to me, but though she liked me and had crucial things in common with me, we didn’t get off the ground for a single moment because she felt no chemistry with me whatsoever.   This just staggered me as I hadn’t come to the understanding of that factor by that time in my life, and the concept appalled me.  Relationships and marriage to me were essentially pragmatic things based on mutual interests and friendly getting on together. So basically since from my earliest years (and back into childhood) I had never attracted the girls I thought that I liked, (and thank heaven none of them actually resulted in a relationship or marriage!) I made a point of just showing myself to be friendly and interesting and endeavouring to promote friendships with girls who had things in common with me.   It never worked when I did (or thought I was doing) the pursuing.   So it would be more effective to make myself as agreeable as possible so that some girl might literally find me nice enough to take pity on me(???) Looking back I can see now all too clearly that among other tactics, I did not have or take the initiative in outings or activities, because I never had any confidence that my ‘things’ would be of interest to any other person.   My real thoughts and feelings could not pass scrutiny from any other person, and so I tended to live a rather secretive and closed life.   This latter of course was not concerned with activities so much as my own inner world.   Also of course, to my Aspie mind, absolutely everyone else in the world was a mystery to me, a totally closed book.  Everyone was potentially dangerous (?)and alien, although I didn’t use that familiar word at that time of my life.   I had to appease everyone, agree with them on just about everything, except on my own special interest expertise.   And so in the long run, I just felt I had to wait until some girl chose me for my attributes and qualities, as no-one I ever picked out was seriously interested in me.   Again, looking back I cannot detect among any of my girlfriends, any one who would have been any better as a mate for me in the long run, than any of my three wives.   As it happened, it is clear to me now that I couldn’t safely choose a partner; and the ones I did have chose me because we had crucial interests in common, and because I didn’t knock about with ‘the guys’, I didn’t drink – since they were non-drinkers, I didn’t smoke or gamble,and as well, they were people who wanted (as I did) someone who was well-spoken and intelligent.  And as I’ve discussed before, I was polite and made no premature sexual advances or pressures on them.   Notice that just about all of these things give the appearance of ‘negatives’ rather than specific positives.   Mostly prospective partners primarily do look for positives and specific things they want rather than the absence of the things they don’t want.  None of the foregoing made any allowance for sexual chemistry or the usual processes of attraction between the sexes.And thus it all demonstrated something of the natural wisdom that the usual scheme of things decrees as being the better and practical way in which the race gets propogated and the world is made to spin. It’s an interesting thing, but with my more advanced age, and with the opportunities to look around the multitudes of folk that I’ve known over the years, I have come to the conclusion that I’ve never met any single person that I’d like to be living with at this stage.   Living alone is definitely my thing.   For me, absolutely no-one, male or female, - old or young.Not that in my young days, I was ever sexually passionate or demanding; but thinking it over, it was just the two particular things in my make-up that drew me to marriage, a natural (and long-denied) heterosexual drive on one hand; and then the fact that my family background and experience had led me to take marriage for granted, as being something easy and conventional.   It was the thing that one ‘just did’!   I had not the slightest idea of what it would mean in my life.    Heaven knows I just love the company of women, but the living together situation is simply not for me. Cheers,  Ron.          Hi  I'm curious as to how the AS man endeavors to have the female choose him?Thankshouris

[Guest guest]

Ah Janet,

Important point, and of course the process

is much the same here and everywhere. But I think that it would

have been considered or believed by the women involved, that I had actually

made enough of ‘the move’. I’ve been

warned by my wives that I all too readily appear to be pursuing just about any

women that I find interesting, even though I don’t see it that

way. It was even suggested that I can give the impression of

flirting (mildly) in an indiscriminate fashion. I’ve

never been able to see it myself; but presumably those few women who did ‘choose’

me, just happened to be the ones who not only were taking me seriously in

regard to what they imagined I was hinting at, but factored me into the possibility

of their lives. Heaven knows, I just love the company of women and

have sought out their company at times rather carelessly, in preference to the

company of males.

Looking back, I do think that I was selected

by a couple of needy women, as representing just about the only male around

that looked suitable enough, and indeed who showed an absence of things that

they had hated most in their relationships in the past. . If you

are desperate enough, you can talk yourself into grabbing at what is available.

In Australia,

we have had for some longish time, a pretty difficult shortage of available

men. Since most of the men who are actually there and most elibible,

will be able to pick and choose, and many will have heavy expectations about

looks and other factors, it may be that an Aspie who looks attractive or good

enough, and who doesn’t appear to be demanding or expecting too much, may

give the appearance of a lucky catch. As well, older men are definitely

in very great demand.

In my case too, as I explained before, I didn’t

go in for the social activities that take you among the usual crop of Singles

in the land. I didn’t speak the language, as it were or

display myself as being the sexually attractive male. I was insignificant

in the business world. I didn’t stand out as a ‘man among men’.

I was not a ‘catch’ that a woman could parade among her friends

with pride. I was not tall or particularly masculine. On the other

hand, neither was I a snappy or fashionable dresser.. – no Metrosexual as

they call them nowadays.

As well, I didn’t drive a car, I didn’t

swim, I didn’t dance, I didn’t party, my interests were

intellectual and esoteric. I was just not everybody’s cup of

tea, as it were, BUT those same curious and individual interests of mine just

happened to match certain proclivities in the women. When the

ladies involved started to take an interest in me, I played the role of the

typical Aspie, with a state of surprise and delight that just for once I

actually seemed attractive to someone, and of course responded to it all.

Then naturally enough, my response would

have given the impression of ‘taking the initiative’.

Just finally, does anyone recall an old

old Pop song… must be some 40 years old, or more, that ran…

A man chases a girl, until she catches

him. ?????

Cheers, Ron.

Subject: Re:

On the Lady choosing me?

Ron, in

my part of the world, we call it " the move " ... women expect men to

make THE MOVE. this is what we respond to.. if there is no MOVE,

well, no response. How about it, NT wimmies... can you elaborate on your

impression of THE MOVE? jkz

[Guest guest]

hmm, I don't know the song... When I talked about the 'MOVE", what I meant was a physical gesture that would invite  to more intimacy... like kissing, hand-holding , arm around, etc.  This is a language of courting and I can tell you that My AS husband does not know it... it is more than just being friendly and flirting... it is actual physical contact, somewhat risky because the recipient may rebuff the gesture , especially at first.  The MOVER should try again.  I am not sure that you understood what I am saying..... jkz it's the hustle. Ah Janet, Important point, and of course the process is much the same here and everywhere.   But I think that it would have been considered or believed by the women involved, that I had actually made enough of ‘the move’.     I’ve been warned by my wives that I all too readily appear to be pursuing just about any women that I find interesting, even though I don’t see it that way.   It was even suggested that I can give the impression of flirting (mildly) in an indiscriminate fashion.    I’ve never been able to see it myself; but presumably those few women who did ‘choose’ me, just happened to be the ones who not only were taking me seriously in regard to what they imagined I was hinting at, but factored me into the possibility of their lives.   Heaven knows, I just love the company of women and have sought out their company at times rather carelessly, in preference to the company of males.   Looking back, I do think that I was selected by a couple of needy women, as representing just about the only male around that looked suitable enough, and indeed who showed an absence of things that they had hated most in their relationships in the past. .   If you are desperate enough, you can talk yourself into grabbing at what is available.  In Australia, we have had for some longish time, a pretty difficult shortage of available men.   Since most of the men who are actually there and most elibible, will be able to pick and choose, and many will have heavy expectations about looks and other factors, it may be that an Aspie who looks attractive or good enough, and who doesn’t appear to be demanding or expecting too much, may give the appearance of a lucky catch.  As well, older men are definitely in very great demand.  In my case too, as I explained before, I didn’t go in for the social activities that take you among the usual crop of Singles in the land.   I didn’t speak the language, as it were or display myself as being the sexually attractive male.  I was insignificant in the business world.  I didn’t stand out as a ‘man among men’.  I was not a ‘catch’ that a woman could parade among her friends with pride.  I was not tall or particularly masculine.  On the other hand, neither was I a snappy or fashionable dresser.. – no Metrosexual as they call them nowadays. As well, I didn’t drive a car, I didn’t swim, I didn’t dance, I didn’t party, my interests were intellectual and esoteric.   I was just not everybody’s cup of tea, as it were, BUT those same curious and individual interests of mine just happened to match certain proclivities in the women.   When the ladies involved started to take an interest in me, I played the role of the typical Aspie, with a state of surprise and delight that just for once I actually seemed attractive to someone, and of course responded to it all.Then naturally enough, my response would have given the impression of ‘taking the initiative’. Just finally, does anyone recall an old old Pop song… must be some 40 years old, or more, that ran… A man chases a girl, until she catches him.    ????? Cheers,  Ron.  Subject: Re: On the Lady choosing me?Ron, in my part of the world, we call it "the move"... women expect men to make THE MOVE.    this is what we respond to.. if there is no MOVE, well, no response.  How about it, NT wimmies... can you elaborate on your impression of THE MOVE?   jkz 

[Guest guest]

Janet Zimmerman wrote:

> hmm, I don't know the song... When I talked about the 'MOVE " , what I

> meant was a physical gesture that would invite to more intimacy... like

> kissing, hand-holding , arm around, etc.

>

> This is a language of courting and I can tell you that My

> AS husband does not know it... it is more than just being friendly and

> flirting... it is actual physical contact, somewhat risky because the

> recipient may rebuff the gesture , especially at first. The MOVER

> should try again. I am not sure that you understood what I am

> saying..... jkz it's the hustle.

Without a clear sign of wanting attention stalling is likely.

This is why I am a bit mystified at how so many got themselves attached.

I don't understand what it is, how other men seem to know, or maybe they

are simply pushy, aggressive. In reality, cold light, it isn't obvious

what to do. Putting this bluntly if the end objective of both parties is

fucking there is some kind of dance around anything and everything but

that. Moreover there is no way of learning... note how incredibly secret

the matter is, not real life depicted.

It is possible the social learning done by kids which is broken in

Autistic is actually at work. We do not learn the social group forming

and so on. In a way approaching anyone feels the same, no way of doing

it just the same (from dim vague recollection) as it was as a kid. You

just did your own thing alone, kept in the corner so to speak.

Fear of rejection? That's an interesting one. My present opinion formed

after many years watching, listening even talking is that the notion of

fear of rejection is an NT concept, an assumption based on NT values.

An allied situation which adds weight to that is the fear of public

speaking problem. This is a great fear for most NT and whilst I think I

understand the reason quite well, won't mention it here if you can

accept there is a basis.

Critically there is research evidence showing actual physiological

difference Autistic, not-Autistic, the dry mouth effect much more marked

in NT, a sign of stress/fear.

Generally both groups seem to not want to speak in public but the reason

is something else again, ie. don't fall for A therefore B when there

might be C or D.

Fear of public speaking == social judgement.

I know historically I had a great resistance to public show but the

reason is unclear and it certainly is not fear of public speaking etc. I

do that no problem, even in a way here.

Extending that observation I don't mind public but I greatly avoid

spectacle so you will not find me on facebook or utube etc. etc.

Women expecting the-move?

Major problem, I have no idea what is expected or wished. There is much

more but I am very reluctant to recount a tale of horrendous

significance. The mystery is what is it that stops me. I do not know.

I suspect it is connected with not approaching anyone for anything,

there is great reluctance, including avoiding doctors and dentists when

really that is not sensible, not as far as pulling my own teeth though.

Is it different with my wife? No.

I know that begs some questions, not answering because it is another person.

** in fact I do have a facebook account... with everything turned off, a

ridiculous place and very unsafe, so the uncontrolled exposure factor

appears and relates to the prying problem. With prying I will clam up

even though there might be no actual problem on things that if left open

are open. Might even be about a reaction to NT demanding attention and

dialog.

[Guest guest]

RonI had an Ah Ha moment with my counsellora while ago. She asked me why I married my wife. My answerwas that I found someone who loved me. Now I had little appreciation of whatmarried life meant, only that I met someone who I liked, but more importantlyshe liked me. I have discussed with my wife her view of what shouldhave happened when we got married. Her expectation was that I wouldchange and adapt to living and sharing ones life with a partner. ButI did not. I continued on the same way as before I was married. Nothingchanged for me except the extra benefits that go with cohabitation.So my wife felt she needed to adapther behaviour to suit mine. Meanwhile I was not aware of the sacrificeshe was making and she did not understand the consequences to herself ofdoing this, which were starting to live life like an AS person. Isaw both of us as individuals while the relationship was more about definingthe roles rather than pursuing shared interests and intimacy. Ifmost AS are honest, intimacy is challenging for them.And yes the Whys still continue andI forever feel inadequate to respond or give reasons. I feel suchpressure when that happens. But I have started to understand whatis at stake for my wife in this. There are two other people involvedat home (my daughters) and she is worried for them as well as herself. Gregdx AS at 53 " Ron Hedgcock " Sent by: aspires-relationships 11/02/2008 09:09 AMPlease respond toaspires-relationships To<aspires-relationships >ccSubjectRE: On the Ladychoosing me?Ah Janet, Important point, and of coursethe process is much the same here and everywhere. But I think thatit would have been considered or believed by the women involved, that Ihad actually made enough of ‘the move’. I’ve been warnedby my wives that I all too readily appear to be pursuing just about anywomen that I find interesting, even though I don’t see it that way. It was even suggested that I can give the impression of flirting (mildly)in an indiscriminate fashion. I’ve never been able to seeit myself; but presumably those few women who did ‘choose’ me, just happenedto be the ones who not only were taking me seriously in regard to whatthey imagined I was hinting at, but factored me into the possibility oftheir lives. Heaven knows, I just love the company of women andhave sought out their company at times rather carelessly, in preferenceto the company of males. Looking back, I do think thatI was selected by a couple of needy women, as representing just about theonly male around that looked suitable enough, and indeed who showed anabsence of things that they had hated most in their relationships in thepast. . If you are desperate enough, you can talk yourself intograbbing at what is available. In Australia, we have had for somelongish time, a pretty difficult shortage of available men. Sincemost of the men who are actually there and most elibible, will be ableto pick and choose, and many will have heavy expectations about looks andother factors, it may be that an Aspie who looks attractive or good enough,and who doesn’t appear to be demanding or expecting too much, may givethe appearance of a lucky catch. As well, older men are definitelyin very great demand. In my case too, as I explainedbefore, I didn’t go in for the social activities that take you among theusual crop of Singles in the land. I didn’t speak the language,as it were or display myself as being the sexually attractive male. Iwas insignificant in the business world. I didn’t stand out as a‘man among men’. I was not a ‘catch’ that a woman could paradeamong her friends with pride. I was not tall or particularly masculine. On the other hand, neither was I a snappy or fashionable dresser..– no Metrosexual as they call them nowadays. As well, I didn’t drive a car,I didn’t swim, I didn’t dance, I didn’t party, my interests were intellectualand esoteric. I was just not everybody’s cup of tea, as it were,BUT those same curious and individual interests of mine just happened tomatch certain proclivities in the women. When the ladies involvedstarted to take an interest in me, I played the role of the typical Aspie,with a state of surprise and delight that just for once I actually seemedattractive to someone, and of course responded to it all.Then naturally enough, my responsewould have given the impression of ‘taking the initiative’. Just finally, does anyone recallan old old Pop song… must be some 40 years old, or more, that ran… A man chases a girl, until shecatches him. ????? Cheers, Ron. Subject: Re: On the Lady choosing me?Ron, in my part of the world, wecall it " the move " ... women expect men to make THE MOVE. this is what we respond to.. if there is no MOVE, well, no response. How about it, NT wimmies... can you elaborate on your impressionof THE MOVE? jkz

[Guest guest]

I think AS men miss the sign of wanting. I am sure it must be

subtle to them. While it is true that the ACT is the goal, the

actions leading up to it are extremely important part of the

process. Especially for women and for men too.

AS far as knowing 'what to do', I am so mystified by anyone who is

unable see what the dance is? please, no offense but isn't our

cuture absolutley jam packed with visual aids... movies tv shows ...

that show step by step what to do? In living color no less with

close ups? I am not talking about porno here, just mainstream

entertainment. See what people do when they are together, how they

touch , talk and look at each other.

At the risk of .. ah, who cares.. here we go guys.. this is how to

start your dance...

sit beside her, hold her hand. softly, give a little sqeeze, rub the

back of her hand with your thumb. Inhale and exhale with gusto so

she can hear you. Catch her eye, smile , raise your eyebrows, wink,

lick your lips. If she smiles back and seems relaxed, move closer so

your upper arms are touching. move your leg next to hers so it is

touching. Put your foot gently on top of hers and remove it ,

slowly. shoes off, all the better. Make an " MMMMM " sound so only

she can hear. (YOu are still holding her hand, breathing, etc. ) AT

this point , you should be able to tell if she is receptive ... is

she is not, she'll move away. don't be discouraged! It was nice

while it lasted,wasn't it? Look forward to doing it again soon! No

worries! No judgements on your performance.

but if she is liking it and not moving away, lean your head closer

and take a big sniff of her hair. relax. Lean into her. Take

another deep inhale and exhale with obvious pleasure.. no hurries,

everything is wonderful. Feel how terrific it is. And you really

haven't even done anything yet! Put your other arm around her

tenderly and give her a comforting snug hug. If she is not

responding but just neutral, say to her, " You make me feel really

really good. I am so glad to be here with you right now " . If she

responds (I don'tmean verbally)positively, and it won't take much to

indicate this... cradle her head with your hugging hand, and ever so

softly, touch her lips with yours. A few times, do this, and I

would be very surprised if she did not kiss you back..

Well, I hope this has been helpful. It is a dance. It is about

feeling a connection with the other. Making a connection. You learn

by doing. Being totally in the moment. Taking it very slowly,

letting trust build. BUT , as a man, it is expected that YOU take

the initiative.. there are no secrets necessary for this... Just try,

but not too hard. Like a dance, she steps forward, you step back,

you step forward, she steps back. ebb and flow, push and pull.

Don't panic... be happy. Janet ZEE with hints for Valentines day.

> Janet Zimmerman wrote:

>> hmm, I don't know the song... When I talked about the 'MOVE " , what I

>> meant was a physical gesture that would invite to more

>> intimacy... like

>> kissing, hand-holding , arm around, etc.

>>

>> This is a language of courting and I can tell you that My

>> AS husband does not know it... it is more than just being friendly

>> and

>> flirting... it is actual physical contact, somewhat risky because the

>> recipient may rebuff the gesture , especially at first. The MOVER

>> should try again. I am not sure that you understood what I am

>> saying..... jkz it's the hustle.

>

> Without a clear sign of wanting attention stalling is likely.

>

> This is why I am a bit mystified at how so many got themselves

> attached.

>

> I don't understand what it is, how other men seem to know, or maybe

> they

> are simply pushy, aggressive. In reality, cold light, it isn't obvious

> what to do. Putting this bluntly if the end objective of both

> parties is

> fucking there is some kind of dance around anything and everything but

> that. Moreover there is no way of learning... note how incredibly

> secret

> the matter is, not real life depicted.

>

> It is possible the social learning done by kids which is broken in

> Autistic is actually at work. We do not learn the social group forming

> and so on. In a way approaching anyone feels the same, no way of doing

> it just the same (from dim vague recollection) as it was as a kid. You

> just did your own thing alone, kept in the corner so to speak.

>

> Fear of rejection? That's an interesting one. My present opinion

> formed

> after many years watching, listening even talking is that the

> notion of

> fear of rejection is an NT concept, an assumption based on NT values.

>

> An allied situation which adds weight to that is the fear of public

> speaking problem. This is a great fear for most NT and whilst I

> think I

> understand the reason quite well, won't mention it here if you can

> accept there is a basis.

> Critically there is research evidence showing actual physiological

> difference Autistic, not-Autistic, the dry mouth effect much more

> marked

> in NT, a sign of stress/fear.

> Generally both groups seem to not want to speak in public but the

> reason

> is something else again, ie. don't fall for A therefore B when there

> might be C or D.

> Fear of public speaking == social judgement.

>

>

> I know historically I had a great resistance to public show but the

> reason is unclear and it certainly is not fear of public speaking

> etc. I

> do that no problem, even in a way here.

>

> Extending that observation I don't mind public but I greatly avoid

> spectacle so you will not find me on facebook or utube etc. etc.

>

> Women expecting the-move?

> Major problem, I have no idea what is expected or wished. There is

> much

> more but I am very reluctant to recount a tale of horrendous

> significance. The mystery is what is it that stops me. I do not know.

> I suspect it is connected with not approaching anyone for anything,

> there is great reluctance, including avoiding doctors and dentists

> when

> really that is not sensible, not as far as pulling my own teeth

> though.

>

> Is it different with my wife? No.

> I know that begs some questions, not answering because it is

> another person.

>

> ** in fact I do have a facebook account... with everything turned

> off, a

> ridiculous place and very unsafe, so the uncontrolled exposure factor

> appears and relates to the prying problem. With prying I will clam up

> even though there might be no actual problem on things that if left

> open

> are open. Might even be about a reaction to NT demanding attention and

> dialog.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Janet Zimmerman wrote:

> I think AS men miss the sign of wanting.

[ snip ]>

> At the risk of .. ah, who cares.. here we go guys.. this is how to

> start your dance...

>

> sit beside her, hold her hand. softly, give a little sqeeze, rub the

> back of her hand with your thumb. Inhale and exhale with gusto so

> she can hear you. Catch her eye, smile , raise your eyebrows, wink,

> lick your lips. If she smiles back and seems relaxed, move closer so

> your upper arms are touching. move your leg next to hers so it is

> touching. Put your foot gently on top of hers and remove it ,

> slowly. shoes off, all the better. Make an " MMMMM " sound so only

> she can hear. (YOu are still holding her hand, breathing, etc. ) AT

> this point , you should be able to tell if she is receptive ... is

> she is not, she'll move away. don't be discouraged! It was nice

> while it lasted,wasn't it? Look forward to doing it again soon! No

> worries! No judgements on your performance.

>

> but if she is liking it and not moving away, lean your head closer

> and take a big sniff of her hair. relax. Lean into her. Take

> another deep inhale and exhale with obvious pleasure.. no hurries,

> everything is wonderful. Feel how terrific it is. And you really

> haven't even done anything yet! Put your other arm around her

> tenderly and give her a comforting snug hug. If she is not

> responding but just neutral, say to her, " You make me feel really

> really good. I am so glad to be here with you right now " . If she

> responds (I don'tmean verbally)positively, and it won't take much to

> indicate this... cradle her head with your hugging hand, and ever so

> softly, touch her lips with yours. A few times, do this, and I

> would be very surprised if she did not kiss you back..

>

> Well, I hope this has been helpful. It is a dance. It is about

> feeling a connection with the other. Making a connection. You learn

> by doing. Being totally in the moment. Taking it very slowly,

> letting trust build. BUT , as a man, it is expected that YOU take

> the initiative.. there are no secrets necessary for this... Just try,

> but not too hard. Like a dance, she steps forward, you step back,

> you step forward, she steps back. ebb and flow, push and pull.

> Don't panic... be happy.

Cool, Janet. Wa-a-a-ay cool! I've never heard or read ANYONE describe

'The Dance' so well or so sensitively.

Kudos. Brava!

- Bill, 75, AS

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

thanks bill, wait till the music starts! ;-)/ jkzJanet Zimmerman wrote:> I think AS men miss the sign of wanting.[ snip ]>> At the risk of .. ah, who cares.. here we go guys.. this is how to > start your dance...> > sit beside her, hold her hand. softly, give a little sqeeze, rub the > back of her hand with your thumb. Inhale and exhale with gusto so > she can hear you. Catch her eye, smile , raise your eyebrows, wink, > lick your lips. If she smiles back and seems relaxed, move closer so > your upper arms are touching. move your leg next to hers so it is > touching. Put your foot gently on top of hers and remove it , > slowly. shoes off, all the better. Make an "MMMMM " sound so only > she can hear. (YOu are still holding her hand, breathing, etc. ) AT > this point , you should be able to tell if she is receptive ... is > she is not, she'll move away. don't be discouraged! It was nice > while it lasted,wasn't it? Look forward to doing it again soon! No > worries! No judgements on your performance.> > but if she is liking it and not moving away, lean your head closer > and take a big sniff of her hair. relax. Lean into her. Take > another deep inhale and exhale with obvious pleasure.. no hurries, > everything is wonderful. Feel how terrific it is. And you really > haven't even done anything yet! Put your other arm around her > tenderly and give her a comforting snug hug. If she is not > responding but just neutral, say to her, "You make me feel really > really good. I am so glad to be here with you right now". If she > responds (I don'tmean verbally)positively, and it won't take much to > indicate this... cradle her head with your hugging hand, and ever so > softly, touch her lips with yours. A few times, do this, and I > would be very surprised if she did not kiss you back..> > Well, I hope this has been helpful. It is a dance. It is about > feeling a connection with the other. Making a connection. You learn > by doing. Being totally in the moment. Taking it very slowly, > letting trust build. BUT , as a man, it is expected that YOU take > the initiative.. there are no secrets necessary for this... Just try, > but not too hard. Like a dance, she steps forward, you step back, > you step forward, she steps back. ebb and flow, push and pull. > Don't panic... be happy.Cool, Janet. Wa-a-a-ay cool! I've never heard or read ANYONE describe 'The Dance' so well or so sensitively.Kudos. Brava!- Bill, 75, AS-- WD "Bill" Loughman - Berkeley, California USAhttp://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

Janet.. you have an excellent point. I feel that women are expecting

men to make a move on them and such. When I began the journey of

living with AS and ADHD, I was much the same way. I felt at a

complete loss, not knowing what to do. However, I am much thankful

that I have found out about myself as I have. While I have AS, what

I found out this past weekend is much stronger than my having AS.

Thus, I feel the time will come when I will put " the move " on someone

and look forward to it.

>

> >

> >

> >

> > Hello Houris,

> >

> >

> >

> > Oh my goodness, I'm about to dob myself in for promoting

> > generalities again. Bill, I hope you're not looking!

> >

> >

> >

> > The concept here was suggested to me by one of my

Psychologists.

> > She asked me one day how I went about selecting

> >

> > or picking out the women I wanted to marry (been there three

> > times). Just what had they all had in common that I picked them

> > out? She was trying among other things, to determine if I was

> > going through the proverbial business of picking `the same'

woman

> > every time. So that was her suggestion.

> >

> >

> >

> > How can I explain it. Well look at it this way. I was never

> > aggressive in going out and looking for a woman in those early

> > days. I have never been the one to take initiative. I never

went

> > to the traditional places where one `picks up' a prospective

> > partner. I did belong to a number of clubs and groups in my

young

> > days that however, very rarely put me in contact with young women.

> >

> >

> >

> > Without the sense of Sexual Chemistry I could never pick up or

> > interpret sexual signals from a person of the opposite sex. (I

> > recall one wry comment by my first wife, when she said that a

girl

> > would just about have me undressed and in bed before I'd realize

> > what was happening). Neither of course did I emit or send out

> > appropriate sexual signals to others. I simply, in the very

best

> > Aspie fashion, simply talked about my special interests, duly

> > putting them first, before talking about the other person. My

> > third wife tells of how when we met (after contact through a

> > newspaper advertisement) just about all I did through the first

> > meeting, was to talk about myself., with barely a word or

question

> > about her!

> >

> >

> >

> > Once I did advertise in an Australia wide relationships magazine

to

> > meet appropriate women. I learnt that just about everyone who

> > advertised therein, got some dozens of answers from all over Oz.

I

> > got fully one answer only from a lady in another state. But of

> > course, I made no attempt to make myself appealing. I described

> > myself with absolute honesty, just hoping to find someone who

had

> > the same interests and passions. I couldn't honestly say I went

to

> > Pubs, Restaurants, Night Clubs, Dance places, and I just hated

> > parties. And I made no attempt to describe myself as in any way

> > sexually appealing or motivated. As it happened I did become

> > friends for a brief time with the lady who wrote to me, but

though

> > she liked me and had crucial things in common with me, we didn't

> > get off the ground for a single moment because she felt no

> > chemistry with me whatsoever. This just staggered me as I

hadn't

> > come to the understanding of that factor by that time in my

life,

> > and the concept appalled me. Relationships and marriage to me

were

> > essentially pragmatic things based on mutual interests and

friendly

> > getting on together.

> >

> >

> >

> > So basically since from my earliest years (and back into

childhood)

> > I had never attracted the girls I thought that I liked, (and

thank

> > heaven none of them actually resulted in a relationship or

> > marriage!) I made a point of just showing myself to be friendly

and

> > interesting and endeavouring to promote friendships with girls

who

> > had things in common with me. It never worked when I did (or

> > thought I was doing) the pursuing. So it would be more

effective

> > to make myself as agreeable as possible so that some girl might

> > literally find me nice enough to take pity on me(???)

> >

> >

> >

> > Looking back I can see now all too clearly that among other

> > tactics, I did not have or take the initiative in outings or

> > activities, because I never had any confidence that my `things'

> > would be of interest to any other person. My real thoughts and

> > feelings could not pass scrutiny from any other person, and so I

> > tended to live a rather secretive and closed life. This latter

of

> > course was not concerned with activities so much as my own inner

> > world. Also of course, to my Aspie mind, absolutely everyone

else

> > in the world was a mystery to me, a totally closed book.

Everyone

> > was potentially dangerous (?)

> >

> > and alien, although I didn't use that familiar word at that time

of

> > my life. I had to appease everyone, agree with them on just

about

> > everything, except on my own special interest expertise.

> >

> >

> >

> > And so in the long run, I just felt I had to wait until some

girl

> > chose me for my attributes and qualities, as no-one I ever

picked

> > out was seriously interested in me. Again, looking back I

cannot

> > detect among any of my girlfriends, any one who would have been

any

> > better as a mate for me in the long run, than any of my three

> > wives. As it happened, it is clear to me now that I couldn't

> > safely choose a partner; and the ones I did have chose me

because

> > we had crucial interests in common, and because I didn't knock

> > about with `the guys', I didn't drink – since they were non-

> > drinkers, I didn't smoke or gamble,

> >

> > and as well, they were people who wanted (as I did) someone who

was

> > well-spoken and intelligent. And as I've discussed before, I

was

> > polite and made no premature sexual advances or pressures on

> > them. Notice that just about all of these things give the

> > appearance of `negatives' rather than specific positives.

Mostly

> > prospective partners primarily do look for positives and

specific

> > things they want rather than the absence of the things they

don't

> > want.

> >

> >

> >

> > None of the foregoing made any allowance for sexual chemistry or

> > the usual processes of attraction between the sexes.

> >

> > And thus it all demonstrated something of the natural wisdom

that

> > the usual scheme of things decrees as being the better and

> > practical way in which the race gets propogated and the world is

> > made to spin.

> >

> >

> >

> > It's an interesting thing, but with my more advanced age, and

with

> > the opportunities to look around the multitudes of folk that

I've

> > known over the years, I have come to the conclusion that I've

never

> > met any single person that I'd like to be living with at this

> > stage. Living alone is definitely my thing. For me,

absolutely

> > no-one, male or female, - old or young.

> >

> > Not that in my young days, I was ever sexually passionate or

> > demanding; but thinking it over, it was just the two particular

> > things in my make-up that drew me to marriage, a natural (and

long-

> > denied) heterosexual drive on one hand; and then the fact that

my

> > family background and experience had led me to take marriage for

> > granted, as being something easy and conventional. It was the

> > thing that one `just did'! I had not the slightest idea of

what

> > it would mean in my life.

> >

> >

> >

> > Heaven knows I just love the company of women, but the living

> > together situation is simply not for me.

> >

> >

> >

> > Cheers, Ron.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Hi

> >

> > I'm curious as to how the AS man endeavors to have the female

> > choose him?

> >

> > Thanks

> > houris

> >

> >

> >

>