Re: Asking questions of an Aspie.

[Guest guest]

He lived with me 10 of 13 years together. For much of that time I did not know about AS - I was just waiting for him to grow up, mature, get it - be responsible - whatever term you want to use. Of course, the question in my mind was "When will we get married?" So, when I learned about AS and knew that I could wait forever for him to bring up anything, much less this - I asked the question. Yes, I wanted to know why he declined. Of course, this is a VERY brief summary. But I did - and do - want to know the reason. His family? His business? His misperceptions about marriage? His idea? Whatever. Yes, I did and do want to know. Yes, there is an insistant demand and I do need to know.

(In any case I believe that in some 80% of cases the other party demanding to know ‘Why?’ really has no reason why they need to know at all, despite their insistent demand.)

RE: Asking questions of an Aspie.

This whole business of putting forward questions in an un-loaded or pressure free atmosphere has interested me for some time.

The blatant question or demand – ‘Why?’ is a crucial one here. In one of her fascinating books on linguistics in ordinary life, Deborah Tannen tells of how some folks (including herself) just grew up in families where everyone just bluntly asked – Why? At every point. AND IN THE PROCESS, EVERYONE EXPECTED TO GET THE QUESTION. She got a shock when she found that her first husband had come from a background wherein no-one asked this question in that fashion, and it was consequently experienced as intrusive and objectionable.

I hate having the question asked of me, especially when it concerns my motivations behind an action or a purchase, or even at times behind a preference or decision. Some of us, and maybe a number of us Aspies (note Bill I’m generalizing again!!!!) may not actually have a reason clearly in our mind for these things. We might have made something like an ‘executive decision’ just to get the issue out of the way and done with. We might have even forgotten just what it was that made us decide on the spot, and have just put it out our minds in even a few minutes. It might have been that it was just a passing fancy that made us decide. Or as well, we might have private reasons of our own that we would find embarrassing to quote aloud, and to be submitted to scrutiny. Even what seemed to us logical and sensible at the time, may on reflection seem to be stupid or childish.

To have to explain why might simply not be appropriate for us. In any case I believe that in some 80% of cases the other party demanding to know ‘Why?’ really has no reason why they need to know at all, despite their insistent demand.

The unpressured question I would recommend that should disturb not even the most self-conscious Aspergian, would be to ask..

‘Any particular reason for that?’ Then the other party can legitimately answer , ‘No, nothing in particular.’ Or ‘Yes,’ and if he pleases, he can go on to explain the reason. In the case of a negative answer, the big point then, of course, unless the matter is crucially important, is for due respect to be applied to the other party, and not to pursue the matter. For me, all too often the question ‘Why?’ is a disturbing intrusion, even though many NT folks seem desperately to want to inquire into absolutely everything concerning the partner.

Just one nitpicking point from a nitpicking Aspie is this. From a grammatical and logical point of view, you cant strictly speaking answer the question ‘Why?’ with the answer ‘No particular reason’. It doesn’t make any sense. Make it easy in the routine of daily life, to ask rather ‘Any particular reason for that?’ AND delivered with a smile and not a frown. You’ll get far better cooperation, IMHO.

Cheers, Ron (on one of his pet topics!)

Janet has learned that she could have phrased a question to her husband about this book: "is it too soon to ask you how you felt about the book?"Bill, this is an excellent potential solution to the methodology of asking a non-charged question.Another solution would be for her husband to say, "I've finished the book you asked me to read and I'd like to talk to you about it."Questions: Using these examples above, what incentive does a spouse have to learn to rephrase everything they say, when the person they are saying it to has no incentive or sense of urgency about the matter at hand? Considering she has said nothing for months since giving him the books (my impression of her postings) it can't get any less charged than that. This seems like a classic symbiosis where only one member of a pair benefits from the relationship. The benefit is to be left alone. Janet leaves him alone and he doesn't seek her out to discuss the books. Once again, are AS unaware of problems within a marriage unless an NT figures out a way to tell him without upsetting him?Regards,Anita 55NT (Who hopes Janet doesn't feel negatively about this example being used over a series of post exchanges.)

[Guest guest]

"To have to explain why might simply not be appropriate for us. In any case I believe that in some 80% of cases the other party demanding to know 'Why?' really has no reason why they need to know at all, despite their insistent demand."As his wife, I am entitled to know the reasons he makes "most" of his decisions. I say "most" because I really don't care why he's eating ice cream, unless he's a diabetic and the decision to eat ice cream could be harming him physically.Can you imagine the chaos if the NT's in the relationships told their AS spouses, "you don't need to know why I do things, just accept that I do them and don't ask me questions about it." THAT would drive an AS off the wall.Considering almost all the AS on the list have spoken eloquently to communication problems, interpretation difficulties and seemingly basic social skills, is it a wonder the NT's want to know "WHY" the AS is doing things all the time. NT's for the most part the one's who keep "order" in the relationship. Please don't ask the people who prevent or repair really bad financial, health and other AS decisions that they essentially have no reason to know "everything."If I didn't ask "constantly" we'd be bankrupt, he'd have some serious illnesses now and all the areas of his autonomy would be in shambles. Please re-think your position relative to this matter.Regards,Anita 55 NT

[Guest guest]

Cheryl,

Yours was obviously a crucial question

that was concerned with an ongoing situation. I guess my thesis in the

attached letter is that with a reluctant answerer, you save up the direct

question for important and loaded matters only. But with an AS person,

the frequent demand for reasons, when they are not of great significance, will

be most off-putting. He will regard it as an inquisition, - an interrogation.

And one result will probably be in such a case, that he will take refuge in

secrecy, and will determine that he wont share very much of his life issues,

and thereby open himself up to the demands to justify himself and his

choices.

Your question was vitally important to

you, and you just had to know. My remarks were not addressing significant

things like yours.

A point that I would want to be clarified

in any persistent questioning, however, is just what difference, if any, is his

answer going to make, when he offers it. If on one hand, if

no matter what answer he gives, he is going to be in the wrong, then either the

question is unfair, or else the two people simply shouldn’t be together,

or desperately need help. Or perhaps if his answers are

merely going to assuage an ongoing curiousity, then he may well feel that that doesn’t

justify the pressure he’s been put under.

Keep in mind that our (generalized) AS

individual probably tries to think out and calculate a lot of his comments to

you; and so he will be taking it for granted and will be hoping that you will

be doing the same thing, - and not to simply speak spontaneously and

impulsively.

Cheers, Ron.

From: aspires-relationships [mailto:aspires-relationships ] On Behalf Of Cheryl Cain

Sent: Monday, 11 February 2008

4:20 PM

To: aspires-relationships

Subject: Re:

Asking questions of an Aspie.

He lived with me 10 of 13 years together. For much of

that time I did not know about AS - I was just waiting for him to grow up,

mature, get it - be responsible - whatever term you want to use. Of course,

the question in my mind was " When will we get married? " So,

when I learned about AS and knew that I could wait forever for him to bring up

anything, much less this - I asked the question. Yes, I wanted to know

why he declined. Of course, this is a VERY brief summary. But I did

- and do - want to know the reason. His family? His business?

His misperceptions about marriage? His idea? Whatever. Yes, I

did and do want to know. Yes, there is an insistant demand and I do need

to know.

(In any case I believe that in some 80% of cases the other party

demanding to know ‘Why?’ really has no reason why they need to know

at all, despite their insistent demand.)

[Guest guest]

Yeah Anita,

I say again, if it’s important or

essential, do go ahead and check it out. All I’m pressing is

to make sure that if it’s not apparently crucial whether short or

long-term, then take care how and when you ask. Necessary issues of

health, safety, money, responsibility etc, as you say, just have to be

monitored and asked about, especially if you have a potentially neglectful

Aspie.

Whether the important issues constitute

20% of all potential questions, or 30 or 40 % doesn’t make any difference.

I suggest that we just try to determine before we ask if the matter is

important or serious enough to pursue. It may be of course, that a

particular AS individual will need monitoring a lot more than most. Fair

enough; although guidelines and rules for the future, or boundaries laid out

plainly along with certain inevitable consequences, may well be more useful and

effectual in some cases with them, than just questioning.

What is so noticeable in Cheryl’s

letter about all this, is that apparently all her questioning (however vital)

simply hadn’t worked. As I said, she was absolutely

right. She just had to know. I’d personally be

interested to understand just why her partner was so reluctant to answer her in

the first place. Why were his defenses up so seriously?

Cheers, Ron.

From: aspires-relationships [mailto:aspires-relationships ] On Behalf Of srabande

Sent: Monday, 11 February 2008

4:44 PM

To: aspires-relationships

Subject:

Re: Asking questions of an Aspie.

" To have to explain why might simply not be appropriate for us. In any

case I believe that in some 80% of cases the other party demanding to know

'Why?' really has no reason why they need to know at all, despite their

insistent demand. "

As his wife, I

am entitled to know the reasons he makes " most " of his

decisions. I say " most " because I really don't care why he's

eating ice cream, unless he's a diabetic and the decision to eat ice cream

could be harming him physically.

Can you imagine the chaos if the NT's in the relationships told their AS

spouses, " you don't need to know why I do things, just accept that I do

them and don't ask me questions about it. " THAT would drive an

AS off the wall.

Considering almost all the AS on the list have spoken eloquently to

communication problems, interpretation difficulties and seemingly basic social

skills, is it a wonder the NT's want to know " WHY " the AS is doing

things all the time.

NT's for the most part the one's who keep " order " in the

relationship. Please don't ask the people who prevent or repair really

bad financial, health and other AS decisions that they essentially have no

reason to know " everything. "

If I didn't ask " constantly " we'd be bankrupt, he'd have some serious

illnesses now and all the areas of his autonomy would be in shambles.

Please re-think your position relative to this matter.

Regards,

Anita 55 NT

[Guest guest]

>

> Yeah Anita,

>

>

>

> I say again, if it's important or essential, do go ahead and check

it out.

> All I'm pressing is to make sure that if it's not apparently crucial

whether

> short or long-term, then take care how and when you ask. Necessary

issues

> of health, safety, money, responsibility etc, as you say, just have

to be

> monitored and asked about, especially if you have a potentially

neglectful

> Aspie.

>

>

>

> Whether the important issues constitute 20% of all potential

questions, or

> 30 or 40 % doesn't make any difference. I suggest that we just try to

> determine before we ask if the matter is important or serious enough to

> pursue. It may be of course, that a particular AS individual will need

> monitoring a lot more than most. Fair enough; although guidelines

and rules

> for the future, or boundaries laid out plainly along with certain

inevitable

> consequences, may well be more useful and effectual in some cases

with them,

> than just questioning.

>

Ron, I don't know about other NT-AS relationships, but in mine, there

is very little conversation at all. I don't ask questions, because

I've learned there will be no answers, even to important questions.

When it comes to something important, I just let him know what I

expect (lay out the boundaries, guidelines and rules). I

subconsciously learned to do this before I even knew about AS. But I

became a caretaker, rather than a partner in our relationship.

I have enjoyed and not enjoyed reading the postings here this past

month. Enjoyed because it broadens my understanding of AS. Not

enjoyed because I can see how difficult it is to have a successful

AS-NT relationship. The pleasant, but still communicational

misunderstandings shown here between AS and NTs, is at root of the

problem in my own relationship. Perhaps it is best that AS and NTs

do not enter into intimate relationships because of irreconcilable

differences. But most of us unknowingly entered into these

relationships. And I guess that is why we are here. To learn to make

the relationship work better or to discover that the best action is to

end it. In my case, I will work to make it better. Verleen

[Guest guest]

Hi Ron -

Thank you.

Yours was obviously a crucial question that was concerned with an ongoing situation. I guess my thesis in the attached letter is that with a reluctant answerer, you save up the direct question for important and loaded matters only. But with an AS person, the frequent demand for reasons, when they are not of great significance, will be most off-putting. He will regard it as an inquisition, - an interrogation. And one result will probably be in such a case, that he will take refuge in secrecy, and will determine that he wont share very much of his life issues, and thereby open himself up to the demands to justify himself and his choices.

Mike's bumper sticker is "I don't want to argue." And thus the circle begins. He does not acknowledge AS at all. To him (I believe) any statement that is not identical to his position (can be stated but generally is not) is an arguement. Big problem because almost always, his position and mine are quite different. AS vs NT thinking. So EVERYTHING is an arguement. My belief is that in really accepting AS he could finally see that different does not equal wrong. Different does not equal arguement. Different when explained leads to understanding.

Knowing his perspective better now, I honestly cannot say how I would have changed things had I known from the beginning. Conversations asking how and why are normal in my world. An example - I asked him for years to just give a quick call in the afternoon. That it was touching base, sharing time schedules, the call itself let me feel remembered and cared about, gave me informaiton to plan the rest of the day, etc. I can count those calls over 13 years on one hand. At first, I did not press - at least I don't think so. Just "You must have been really busy today." But yes - over time I did want to know more and more and more - why. For me, it was a need to understand so that I could forgive the behavior, understand it, come up with an alternative - all that. For him not to answer confirmed that he did not care. So what happens for us all I think - AS or NT is that when there is a void of understanding, we will fill it with what we know from our experiences - it may be completely untrue, but we have no other information. For us, because of so many of these behaviors that I did not understand, I believed that he did not care for me and it broke my heart. He never could say, "when I do ___, it does not mean that I do not care as you see it. It means____." After all, that is an arguement.

You start off on the entirely wrong foot if you do not know about AS, and by the time you realize the differences, the frustrations, resentments, and unproductive habits that need to be changed are very difficult to address.

A point that I would want to be clarified in any persistent questioning, however, is just what difference, if any, is his answer going to make, when he offers it. If on one hand, if no matter what answer he gives, he is going to be in the wrong, then either the question is unfair, or else the two people simply shouldn’t be together, or desperately need help. Or perhaps if his answers are merely going to assuage an ongoing curiousity, then he may well feel that that doesn’t justify the pressure he’s been put under.

This really was important when I read it. I know that Mike feels that no matter what answer he gives will be wrong - but if he could reframe with some understanding of AS (my dream) he would finally be able to not feel wrong or attacked or broken - he uses that word alot. What is true is that no matter what answer he gives, it is an AS answer. Not a wrong answer - but an AS answer. If only his understanding could bring him to the point that he does not see everything he does as wrong. It just needs to be explained so I can better understand. But it is not wrong. Just different.

Keep in mind that our (generalized) AS individual probably tries to think out and calculate a lot of his comments to you; and so he will be taking it for granted and will be hoping that you will be doing the same thing, - and not to simply speak spontaneously and impulsively.

I often think that Mike does answer me - but not out loud and not when I am there. So, he thinks that he had the conversation. I just do not know about it.

What is so noticeable in Cheryl’s letter about all this, is that apparently all her questioning (however vital) simply hadn’t worked. As I said, she was absolutely right. She just had to know. I’d personally be interested to understand just why her partner was so reluctant to answer her in the first place. Why were his defenses up so seriously?

I believe that as difficult as AS is in a relationship, there are other 'conditions' that also shade it. Mike grew up in an abusive, alcholic family. His father is also AS I believe. He hates anything that is an arguement because it surrounded him growing up - also, you just did not question ANYTHING his father said or did. His father also modeled ignoring the needs of his wife. So he has no model to listen to anything a partner says or give it any value. His family owns a business together. When I finally said that it was about time for a marriage, it is my belief that they saw the business at risk. It was OK that he lived his life with me as basically married - they did not want a legal marriage to play into the business. But, he does not want to acknowledge the hold they have on him, so he has never shared that part with me. There are lots more details here than I want to go into now. Bottom line is that he gave up what we had to appease them - and I did not want anything to do with the business now or in the future. But after all the years we had together, I did want a name. Wife. And I did want to know that should something happen to him, I would not be left out in the cold.

Between AS and alcoholic family upbringing - there are so many defenses. Really profoundly exhausting and terribly sad.

Cheryl

RE: Asking questions of an Aspie.

Cheryl,

Yours was obviously a crucial question that was concerned with an ongoing situation. I guess my thesis in the attached letter is that with a reluctant answerer, you save up the direct question for important and loaded matters only. But with an AS person, the frequent demand for reasons, when they are not of great significance, will be most off-putting. He will regard it as an inquisition, - an interrogation. And one result will probably be in such a case, that he will take refuge in secrecy, and will determine that he wont share very much of his life issues, and thereby open himself up to the demands to justify himself and his choices.

Your question was vitally important to you, and you just had to know. My remarks were not addressing significant things like yours.

A point that I would want to be clarified in any persistent questioning, however, is just what difference, if any, is his answer going to make, when he offers it. If on one hand, if no matter what answer he gives, he is going to be in the wrong, then either the question is unfair, or else the two people simply shouldn’t be together, or desperately need help. Or perhaps if his answers are merely going to assuage an ongoing curiousity, then he may well feel that that doesn’t justify the pressure he’s been put under.

Keep in mind that our (generalized) AS individual probably tries to think out and calculate a lot of his comments to you; and so he will be taking it for granted and will be hoping that you will be doing the same thing, - and not to simply speak spontaneously and impulsively.

Cheers, Ron.

From: aspires-relationships [mailto:aspires-relationships ] On Behalf Of Cheryl CainSent: Monday, 11 February 2008 4:20 PMTo: aspires-relationships Subject: Re: Asking questions of an Aspie.

He lived with me 10 of 13 years together. For much of that time I did not know about AS - I was just waiting for him to grow up, mature, get it - be responsible - whatever term you want to use. Of course, the question in my mind was "When will we get married?" So, when I learned about AS and knew that I could wait forever for him to bring up anything, much less this - I asked the question. Yes, I wanted to know why he declined. Of course, this is a VERY brief summary. But I did - and do - want to know the reason. His family? His business? His misperceptions about marriage? His idea? Whatever. Yes, I did and do want to know. Yes, there is an insistant demand and I do need to know.

(In any case I believe that in some 80% of cases the other party demanding to know ‘Why?’ really has no reason why they need to know at all, despite their insistent demand.)

[Guest guest]

thanks...this is helpful jkz This whole business of putting forward questions in an un-loaded or pressure free atmosphere has interested me for some time. The blatant question or demand – ‘Why?’ is a crucial one here.   In one of her fascinating books on linguistics in ordinary life, Deborah Tannen tells of how some folks (including herself) just grew up in families where everyone just bluntly asked – Why? At every point.  AND IN THE PROCESS, EVERYONE EXPECTED TO GET THE QUESTION. She got a shock when she found that her first husband had come from a background wherein no-one asked this question in that fashion, and it was consequently experienced as intrusive and objectionable.  I hate having the question asked of me, especially when it concerns my motivations behind an action or a purchase, or even at times behind a preference or decision.   Some of us, and maybe a number of us Aspies (note Bill I’m generalizing again!!!!)  may not actually have a reason clearly in our mind for these things.  We might have made something like an ‘executive decision’ just to get the issue out of the way and done with.  We might have even forgotten just what it was that made us decide on the spot, and have just put it out our minds in even a few minutes.   It might have been that it was just a passing fancy that made us decide.   Or as well, we might have private reasons of our own that we would find embarrassing to quote aloud, and to be submitted to scrutiny.   Even what seemed to us logical and sensible at the time, may on reflection seem to be stupid or childish. To have to explain why might simply not be appropriate for us.  In any case I believe that in some 80% of cases the other party demanding to know ‘Why?’ really has no reason why they need to know at all, despite their insistent demand. The unpressured question I would recommend that should disturb not even the most self-conscious Aspergian, would be to ask..‘Any particular reason for that?’    Then the other party can legitimately answer , ‘No, nothing in particular.’   Or ‘Yes,’ and if he pleases, he can go on to explain the reason.  In the case of a negative answer, the big point then, of course, unless the matter is crucially important, is for due respect to be applied to the other party, and not to pursue the matter.   For me, all too often the question ‘Why?’ is a disturbing intrusion, even though many NT folks seem desperately to want to inquire into absolutely everything concerning the partner. Just one nitpicking point from a nitpicking Aspie is this.   From a grammatical and logical point of view, you cant strictly speaking answer the question ‘Why?’ with the answer ‘No particular reason’.   It doesn’t make any sense.   Make it easy in the routine of daily life, to ask rather ‘Any particular reason for that?’ AND delivered with a smile and not a frown.  You’ll get far better cooperation, IMHO. Cheers,  Ron  (on one of his pet topics!)Janet has learned that she could have phrased a question to her husband about this book:  "is it too soon to ask you how you felt about the book?"Bill, this is an excellent potential solution to the methodology of asking a non-charged question.Another solution would be for her husband to say, "I've finished the book you asked me to read and I'd like to talk to you about it."Questions:  Using these examples above, what incentive does a spouse have to learn to rephrase everything they say, when the person they are saying it to has no incentive or sense of urgency about the matter at hand?   Considering she has said nothing for months since giving him the books (my impression of her postings) it can't get any less charged than that.   This seems like a classic symbiosis where only one member of a pair benefits from the relationship.  The benefit is to be left alone.  Janet leaves him alone and he doesn't seek her out to discuss the books.  Once again, are AS unaware of problems within a marriage unless an NT figures out a way to tell him without upsetting him?Regards,Anita 55NT  (Who hopes Janet doesn't feel negatively about this example being used over a series of post exchanges.)

[Guest guest]

srabande wrote: Anita said: As his wife, I am entitled to know the reasons he makes "most" of his decisions. I say "most" because I really don't care why he's eating ice cream, unless he's a diabetic and the decision to eat ice cream could be harming him physically. me here: well, i would presume he is entitled to know why he is making a decision before anyone else is. problems arise when he doesnt know, or understand the reasons for his decisions or cognitive style and someone else is asking, demanding an explanation. someone said: Can you imagine the chaos if the NT's in the relationships told their AS spouses, "you don't need to know why I do things, just accept that I do them and don't ask me questions about it." THAT would drive an AS off the wall. me here: me and my GF discussed this yesterday. we were talking about some filing issues relating to invoices, credit notes etc. anyway, we decided that there were and are some things i cant do or understand very well. we both decided that she can make decisions and avoid me having to fight with the thought process

involved in making them if i were to trust her judgement and allow her to make them. we agreed. if i didnt understand some things, i defer to her abilities, because i trust her to do well. prior to this, i had to know every little decision and process, and it did snag me and i became stuck nothing got done. now i am learning to adapt, better. she helps, she helps a lot. we actually ended an conversation with her saying..." your just not gunna get this one, so let me do it and you dont have to worry about it" it worked. someone said: Considering almost all the AS on the list have spoken eloquently to communication problems, interpretation difficulties and seemingly basic social skills, is it a wonder the NT's want to know "WHY" the AS is doing things all the time. NT's for the most part the one's who keep "order" in the relationship. Please don't ask the people who

prevent or repair really bad financial, health and other AS decisions that they essentially have no reason to know "everything."If I didn't ask "constantly" we'd be bankrupt, he'd have some serious illnesses now and all the areas of his autonomy would be in shambles. me here: i imagine that if you werent asking he would have some serious difficulties 36 m diagnosed AS. Messages in this topic (40) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic .

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Why: don't you brush your teeth? Can't you bathe often enough to suit me? won't you wear clean clothes when we go somewhere? won't you chew with your mouth CLOSED? can't you show an interest in what I do? don't you ever want to talk about our relationship? don't you want to spend more time with me?  don't you ever want to go anywhere? don't you keep in touch with your family? don't you get me any gifts?  don't you clean your shop so it appears safer? won't you wear your seat belt? won't you use your turn signal? whywhywhywhywhywhywhywhywhywhywhywhy.... I'm been done asking why for a long time.  it just is, it's because he has a handicap...AS!  jkz - fire away, my mind is made up!"To have to explain why might simply not be appropriate for us. In any case I believe that in some 80% of cases the other party demanding to know 'Why?' really has no reason why they need to know at all, despite their insistent demand."As his wife, I am entitled to know the reasons he makes "most" of his decisions.  I say "most" because I really don't care why he's eating ice cream, unless he's a diabetic and the decision to eat ice cream could be harming him physically.Can you  imagine the chaos if the NT's in the relationships told their AS spouses, "you don't need to know why I do things, just accept that I do them and don't ask me questions about it."   THAT would drive an AS off the wall.Considering almost all the AS on the list have spoken eloquently to communication problems, interpretation difficulties and seemingly basic social skills, is it a wonder the NT's want to know "WHY" the AS is doing things all the time.  NT's for the most part the one's who keep "order" in the relationship.  Please don't ask the people who prevent or repair really bad financial, health and other AS decisions that they essentially have no reason to know "everything."If I didn't ask "constantly" we'd be bankrupt, he'd have some serious illnesses now and all the areas of his autonomy would be in shambles.   Please re-think your position relative to this matter.Regards,Anita 55 NT