Re: Is it AS or Isn't It? My Husband Has a Few Words

[Guest guest]

> ... a big angry bunch. { snipped here, for brevity only ]You read way too much into my words Bill, I am not angry at all. Anita: I learned here that comparing NT to AS is WRONGheaded.Bill: If you mean *equating* NT to AS is wrong-headed -- you're absolutelyRIGHT, and I AGREE. If you mean "making comparisons of NT to AS, to understand differences"is wrong-headed, I couldn't DISAGREE more."Right now, Bill...in our lives there must be a hierarchy of what must come first before anything else. I believe my husband and I have understood there are differences for a very long time. Those differences just didn't have a name, we didn't know it was neurological and we didn't know there was set of characteristics that go with that name. Now we do. The irony to the whole thing is, I'm not trying to figure out what NT is, my husband isn't trying to figure out what NT is...we are both trying to figure out what AS is. This list is fabulous for learning about AS! I understand it more, and he reads and nods and nods .........and the other day with Ron's post on sexuality he actually jumped up and yelled, "that's it!" I've never seen him THAT animated! :-)Neither my husband nor myself find any comfort in making comparisons to understand differences. We now view that sort of thing as a distraction from the most important thing of all at this time. ACCEPTANCE of AS. It means me not comparing him to NT in my mind every time he does something and it means him not feeling bad because he didn't do something like an NT would have done it and making comparisons like that. The whole thing is unproductive. We understand we're different, Bill. That's why we've been miserable. At this moment it is imperative that I give him a safe place to be AS and that we both work very hard for him to be AS in that space. We want to see if he feels less of a need to apply maladaptive behavior if he is free to be AS. He is unsure and I am unsure, but we will give it a shot. One thing at a time, one stage at a time, one breath at a time. The goal is to embrace AS.He read your post, he's standing next to me, he asked me to type this for him: "I didn't want to read about how NT males can be just like me in the bedroom. It implies that NT/NT sex can be like NT/AS sex and that NT women end up in the same boat even though they are with NT. I envy NT men because even though they might not want to change something, they have the ability to change it and they can know the way to change it because of an explanation. NT males don't have all that "stuff" in their heads that I have and that's why it's not a comparison. It's better to compare AS males to AS males in how they are in the bedroom. This way I can understand if it is possible for me to have sexual relations in a better way because it's comparing apples to apples. I don't want to be compared to NT men who don't have all of the things Ron said, lack of coordination, deciding where to put a hand at the same time as a leg or whatever. That's me! NT men don't get confused in bed, I get confused and lost in a million thoughts, I do that because I am AS. If NT men are getting the same result I am, it has nothing to do with me or AS. I can't learn anything from comparing myself to an NT man who has the chance to just think about something and just change it. I might never get the chance to change it because I don't feel it. I'd much rather hear from the AS men about whether they have been able to have better sex lives in spite of AS and how they did it because maybe I can learn something."There you have it Bill. Not my words, my husbands. He wrinkled up his forehead reading your post too.My husband and I spend time reading the posts together. It's a good thing, we are at the computer together, it has a sense of intimacy and most importantly we are discussing the things we are reading. He nods a LOT at some of the posts and he feels the men here have said things he could never put into words. It's a good thing.I have asked him to join the group. He feels shy about actually writing directly to the group for now. He asked if once in a while I would quote him when he felt particularly motivated to say something. I said I would be happy to. I hope you all don't mind for now. We are both smiling here, perhaps he will join the group at some point and be able to speak a bit himself. We think it would be wonderful, but it will take time. Regards,Anita 55 NT (Married to 61 AS Dxd 4 Months Ago and Getting a Bit Clearer about what AS means. YAY from both of us!)

[Guest guest]

,

Thank you so much for taking the time to remember what it was like at

the beginning and understanding what I was trying to explain in those

posts.

I don't want to ruffle anything up again, but Bill is 75 and has

stated that his wife is singing for only the last two years. He also

says he knew things were different since High School and studied

control groups since that time.

That's a LONG time folks! A LONG time of studying control groups and

trying to digest AS to the point any distinctions can be made between

intentional behavior (NT) and unintentional behavior (AS) and

intentional maladaptive behavior (AS) and intentional adaptive

behavior (AS)....and every permutation in between.

I didn't even write this part of the post to him [bill] because in my

world, someone who has learned so much doesn't say things like, " I was

going to hit the delete button. " If one has become that adaptive,

they either hit the delete button or just answer the post without the

threat.

Yes...we are having TONS of " AHaaaaaaaa moments " now..and they all

focus on what AS has been in our marriage coupled with what I kept

wanting as an NT. Conversations between us are like, " oh my god,

remember when we had that huge fight over __________ and you said you

couldn't understand because it was about too many things, and I said

can't you think of more than one thing at the same time? " He can now

say he's on overload and I can sort of rifle through the last 10

things we said or did and understand how the combination of things

overloaded him.

But is ALL about AS for us now. EVERYTHING is AS focused because it

has to be right now, and if we believe " once you've met one Aspie,

you've met one Aspie " to be true....my husband may be on a different

location on the spectrum than, say Bill or you, . He may not be

able to adapt and learn from knowing any of this. He nods and nods

because the words ring true to him, but that may be no indication he

is able to, or even wants to (take action)try to correct anything. He

may find it much more soothing to just back away from it all because

it's overwhelming, and that would be 100% AS burnout and in the end he

just may want to be left alone and not feel forced to " save " his

marriage. He needs to have these options, in my opinion. He reports

not feeling like he's EVER had options and he is liking it thus far.

The next step in the process may be to differentiate between AS or non

AS behavior. If he does not engage that next step, or becomes

overwhelmed with it, or cannot develop and access a set of internal

tools to deal with it...that would be AS preventing him from doing so,

because that's just the way it could turn out.

I continue to be intrigued by the concept that it is even possible for

my husband to ultimately " know better " and become an NT'like selfish

jerk hiding behind AS.

Everything we've both read indicates that AS is a neurological

situation, as such my brain tells me it would be cruel to accuse him

of " using " AS to be anything other than AS. How does one overcome

neurology? I'm hearing statements like, " knowing were AS ends and non

AS begins. " We've not read anywhere, or was there any theory like

that presented in the two AANE Boston conferences. Tony Attwoods book

and AANE presentation did not indicate there was a line were AS ends

and non AS or NT begins. The information from what we believe are two

very credible sources (AANE and Tony Attwood) approach AS as

pervasive, not situational. They say AS is managed as AS, not that AS

can slide into NT and back to AS cognitively.

Is there some literature out there that specifically speaks to how AS

is just an inch a kilometer or a lightyear from NT? Please let me

know about such information, as we have not seen it at all.

Thanks Again , I felt you understood much of what I was trying to

convey.

For anyone else out there, just to be clear.......I do NOT think my

husband (or anyone else with Asperger's) is broken, defective or any

other negative words like that. Right now, I'm pretty opposed to him

attempting to try to appear NT though. It's exhausting, he doesn't do

it well, it ends up a disaster, it drives him into hiding and I'd

rather he just be free to be AS. It's who he is authentically and

learning acceptable manners and social skills by rote might come down

the road. If he is not so far into the spectrum to be able to handle

it with some success.

Regards,

Anita 55 NT

>

> jenny i think this is what Bill was getting at in his recent posts.

> Knowing where AS ends and non AS begins, Bill is self aware and

knows this distinction, i think Anita and anitas husbands are having a

lot of " a-haaaa " moments and anything that APPEARS to buck thier

current thinking is met with rejection.

> to clarify...yes Anita everything about your AS husbands 61 years

of maladaptive behaviour is " him " , what bill is saying, is, in time,

the next step of the process is when you differentiate between what

is AS and what is non AS behaviour then you are getting toward what

jenny has written about, self limiting behaviour and adaptations to

AS. or " knowing the difference " knowing when to help your husband to

adapt, and knowing when he is just being a selfish jerk hiding behind

an AS label. At the moment he is ALL AS. in time , and what i think

bill is getting at is, there is AS behaviour and then there is typical

male behaviour that some with AS can get away with and hide behind the

" disability " just as you need to help your husband to adapt to what he

needs help on, you also need to not let him " fall " into just being a

" jerk "

>

> 36 m diagnosed AS who has learned as much as Bill has forgotten.

[Guest guest]

Jennie wrote:

> I found it necessary to know what parts of me are NT and which are

AS. I wanted to know if what I want from my husband was an unreasonable

thing based in AS thinking or if what I wanted was a typical desire of

most women. If it was typical then it would seem reasonable to expect

some movement on his part. If it was AS then it would seem reasonable

for ME to change and/or adapt and/or HELP him to know how to get around

my issues.

** I know I feel more NT'ish when I am in a very comfortable

environment (like the local knitting club) or even at work. I can be

me.