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Thania,

I empathize with you completely because I am in the same predicament. I am an ATR, have a master's degree in psychology from an accredited university, and obtained my art therapy training (The American Art Therapy Assoc. [AATA} approved curriculum for the alternate route) at Pratt Institute. It was my understanding that my education was the equivalent of a master's in art therapy.

My application for licensing was been denied by the State under pathway 1 because it does not recognize the alternate route education and under pathway 2 because I do not yet have 7 years of experience. I can apply for a limited permit but that is valid for only two years. Unless I take action, my career, that I worked so hard for, is essentially over.

The question is, what options do we have at this point? I truly appreciate the efforts of the board members who fought to have the alternate route recognized, but am disappointed that at this point we are left to fend for ourselves. Certainly we can write petitions, argue our case with a State representative, etc., but we need the support from our various organizations such as NYCCAT, NYATA, etc. to be effective and carry weight.

I would ask the board members at NYCCAT who are reading our messages to at least provide us with information with regard to whom to contact and, more important, to strongly consider employing their lobbyist to work to either reinterpret or to change the law to accommodate alternate route education.

Brigitte Hammond

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Re the alternate route program at Pratt - I enrolled in that program three years ago when I heard about the licensing law, thinking that, with an MFA, I could get through the whole thing more quickly and cheaply. I was in touch with Joan Wittig, who assured me the board was going to approve the route, which she had been told. When I thought I was finished and ready to look for a job, however, the education commitee told me no way could I proceed without my masters. So I returned to Pratt, made up the missing courses, am writing my thesis, and will graduate in October. It's not up to Pratt, it's up to the powers that be.

Tomar Levine

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Thania and others:

I emailed yesterday but the list rejected it; don't know why. So I hope this

goes through. Please feel free to send it to the list if it does not get

posted. If this is confusing, maybe Joan or someone else can help bring some

clarity.

I provide alternate route education and I believe that alternate route in

dance/movement therapy can provide high quality education and training for

the profession. But alternate route training centers are private businesses.

They are not accredited by the official organizations that accredit colleges

and university programs. Therefore, they do not have to meet criteria set by

these organizations or pay fees for accreditation. (Anyone who knows more

about this, please feel free to share.) Licensure boards cannot venture into

approving programs; they have no way of knowing whether a program is

providing the appropriate education and training or not. Licensure boards

are limited to creating criteria for approval of individual applications for

licensure. In order to best serve the public, boards try to create broad

criteria for the initial licensure window. After this window, everything can

change. Usually, criteria become more narrow.

I am familiar with licensure boards and I know that if you are asking the

licensure board to approve degrees other than degrees in counseling, social

work, psychology, or CATs (such as dance education, human development,

recreation, or any other education degree), you are asking the licensure

board to set a precedent that will create huge liability for every licensure

board and national certification board in the health professions nationwide.

It also will open the door to the professions for evey other person with a

degree in that area. Obviously we cannot allow anyone with a masters in

education to be licensed as a therapist. And if this happens, what next?

Bachelor's degrees? Licensure boards cannot give blanket approval to any

degrees that do not specifically educate and train for the profession that

is being licensed. The board can review applications on a case by case

basis. If you do not qualify for one of the routes provided for licensure,

you can appeal your case.

It is, in fact, quite arguable, that if you do not have a graduate degree in

CAT, counseling or a related psychotherapy profession, you are not qualified

to pursue private practice.

We (the professions) knew when we began to pursue licensure that some people

would not be able to be licensed. This does not prevent you from working in

the majority of states. It does prevent you from forming your own private

practice. In most states, you can work for someone else who is licensed.

If the law in NY states that you must be licensed to work in any capacity

(for an institution or as an employee for another licensed person), then you

can base your appeal on your " right to work. " A state cannot pass a law that

takes away the earning ability (means for survival) of a person who was

already employed in that capacity when the law was passed. HOWEVER, if you

were not already in private practice, the state can maintain that you do not

need the license.

Again, there are many people (many many people) who have had to return to

grad school because of licensure bills. Most did it because they wanted to

practice privately. Ask these questions: Does NY require you to have a

license in order to work? If not, do you want to have a private practice? If

yes, Does NY require you to have a license to practice privately? If yes,

find out what this will involve before you are discouraged about licensure.

Armeniox

Re: Inaction is not an option

>>

>>

>> Thania,

>>

>> I wrote to you and to the list in April about

>> receiving by LCAT

>> and LMHC as an alternate route ADTR. Have you been

>> rejected

>> outright? As far as I know, you do not have to have

>> practised in NY

>> for 7 years, but have had to be in the field for at

>> least 7 years.

>>

>> I do think that something is off about their

>> approval process for

>> education. The LCAT licensing people do not seem to

>> be recognizing

>> the Masters level education of alternate route

>> people, but the LMHC

>> Educational approval committee did. I was approved

>> on Alternate Route

>> I for LMHC, but Alternate route 2 and 3 for LCAT.

>> This was very

>> weird for me and the LCAT people couldn't really

>> explain it.

>>

>> What suggestions do you or Dani have in terms of

>> lobbying? Have you

>> or anyone else spoken with people on the Licensing

>> approval

>> committee? How about Joan Wittig? She is the ADTR on

>> the committee (

>> I think).

>>

>> If you, or other folks think there are ways we can

>> help, I would be

>> glad to try.

>>

>> Pamela Faith Lerman

>>

>>

>> >As the Licensure talk slows down, I imagine most

>> of

>> >the CAT field is in the process of receiving their

>> >licenses throughout the year. I wanted to bring

>> some

>> >attention to the people who are sure they are not

>> >receiving their licenses: the alternate route CATs.

>> >

>> >I am one of those people and this email also

>> gathers

>> >others in my same position. This also applies to

>> Art,

>> >Drama and Poetry Therapy as well.

>> >

>> >We are the people who had so much passion for this

>> >field that being a bystander was not enough, so we

>> >went beyond our master's degrees to gather

>> additional

>> >courses anywhere we found them. We are the ones

>> that

>> >didn't have the protective bubble of an university,

>> >who paid for this career with our own money because

>> >student loans wouldn't cover it, who don't have an

>> >university reunion to go to in conferences, who

>> >struggled to find their own internships and

>> contacts

>> >and who traveled to become a part of this field.

>> >

>> >But if you are in NY and have practiced for less

>> than

>> >7 years, you will NOT get licensed. For most of us,

>> a

>> >change in career is not an option.

>> >

>> >So I ask, what is being done? Where are the

>> >credentials committees that approved us, the

>> lobbyists

>> >for this license, the Alternate Route Centers that

>> >taught us? Dani Fraenkel from Kinections can't do

>> it

>> >alone. Why have we not heard these voices? I don't

>> >think we really understand that there are some

>> >people's careers and homes at stake. And sitting

>> back

>> >and saying " those poor Alternate Route CATs wont

>> get

>> >it " or brushing us under the rug is not a way to

>> show

>> >support to professionals who have fought to be a

>> part

>> >of this field.

>> >

>> >I thank the people who have listened and gave their

>> >time to our emails and applications. But going back

>> >and getting a master's in CAT or a different field

>> is

>> >not an option for many. I invite anyone who has an

>> >interest in this issue to come forth with options

>> and

>> >solutions. I know all of us worked really hard to

>> get

>> >those applications together, which was a

>> nightmarish

>> >process. But the work is not over. Let's not

>> forget

>> >there are some of our colleagues left behind.

>> >

>> >Inaction is not an option.

>> >

>> >Thania Acaron, MA DTR

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >__________________________________________________

>> >

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Just to add and clarify--there is at least one program in NY--Pratt

Institute that is an accredited college by the state and by the AATA

that provides alternate route training for art therapists. Has anyone

contacted Pratt to get some additional backing on this issue?

Gail

> Thania and others:

> I emailed yesterday but the list rejected it; don't know why. So I

> hope this

> goes through. Please feel free to send it to the list if it does not

> get

> posted. If this is confusing, maybe Joan or someone else can help

> bring some

> clarity.

>

> I provide alternate route education and I believe that alternate route

> in

> dance/movement therapy can provide high quality education and

> training for

> the profession. But alternate route training centers are private

> businesses.

> They are not accredited by the official organizations that accredit

> colleges

> and university programs. Therefore, they do not have to meet criteria

> set by

> these organizations or pay fees for accreditation. (Anyone who knows

> more

> about this, please feel free to share.) Licensure boards cannot

> venture into

> approving programs; they have no way of knowing whether a program is

> providing the appropriate education and training or not. Licensure

> boards

> are limited to creating criteria for approval of individual

> applications for

> licensure. In order to best serve the public, boards try to create

> broad

> criteria for the initial licensure window. After this window,

> everything can

> change. Usually, criteria become more narrow.

>

> I am familiar with licensure boards and I know that if you are asking

> the

> licensure board to approve degrees other than degrees in counseling,

> social

> work, psychology, or CATs (such as dance education, human development,

> recreation, or any other education degree), you are asking the

> licensure

> board to set a precedent that will create huge liability for every

> licensure

> board and national certification board in the health professions

> nationwide.

> It also will open the door to the professions for evey other person

> with a

> degree in that area. Obviously we cannot allow anyone with a masters in

> education to be licensed as a therapist. And if this happens, what

> next?

> Bachelor's degrees? Licensure boards cannot give blanket approval to

> any

> degrees that do not specifically educate and train for the profession

> that

> is being licensed. The board can review applications on a case by case

> basis. If you do not qualify for one of the routes provided for

> licensure,

> you can appeal your case.

>

> It is, in fact, quite arguable, that if you do not have a graduate

> degree in

> CAT, counseling or a related psychotherapy profession, you are not

> qualified

> to pursue private practice.

>

> We (the professions) knew when we began to pursue licensure that some

> people

> would not be able to be licensed. This does not prevent you from

> working in

> the majority of states. It does prevent you from forming your own

> private

> practice. In most states, you can work for someone else who is

> licensed.

>

> If the law in NY states that you must be licensed to work in any

> capacity

> (for an institution or as an employee for another licensed person),

> then you

> can base your appeal on your " right to work. " A state cannot pass a

> law that

> takes away the earning ability (means for survival) of a person who was

> already employed in that capacity when the law was passed. HOWEVER, if

> you

> were not already in private practice, the state can maintain that you

> do not

> need the license.

>

> Again, there are many people (many many people) who have had to return

> to

> grad school because of licensure bills. Most did it because they

> wanted to

> practice privately. Ask these questions: Does NY require you to have a

> license in order to work? If not, do you want to have a private

> practice? If

> yes, Does NY require you to have a license to practice privately? If

> yes,

> find out what this will involve before you are discouraged about

> licensure.

>

> Armeniox

>

>

>

> Re: Inaction is not an option

>>>

>>>

>>> Thania,

>>>

>>> I wrote to you and to the list in April about

>>> receiving by LCAT

>>> and LMHC as an alternate route ADTR. Have you been

>>> rejected

>>> outright? As far as I know, you do not have to have

>>> practised in NY

>>> for 7 years, but have had to be in the field for at

>>> least 7 years.

>>>

>>> I do think that something is off about their

>>> approval process for

>>> education. The LCAT licensing people do not seem to

>>> be recognizing

>>> the Masters level education of alternate route

>>> people, but the LMHC

>>> Educational approval committee did. I was approved

>>> on Alternate Route

>>> I for LMHC, but Alternate route 2 and 3 for LCAT.

>>> This was very

>>> weird for me and the LCAT people couldn't really

>>> explain it.

>>>

>>> What suggestions do you or Dani have in terms of

>>> lobbying? Have you

>>> or anyone else spoken with people on the Licensing

>>> approval

>>> committee? How about Joan Wittig? She is the ADTR on

>>> the committee (

>>> I think).

>>>

>>> If you, or other folks think there are ways we can

>>> help, I would be

>>> glad to try.

>>>

>>> Pamela Faith Lerman

>>>

>>>

>>>> As the Licensure talk slows down, I imagine most

>>> of

>>>> the CAT field is in the process of receiving their

>>>> licenses throughout the year. I wanted to bring

>>> some

>>>> attention to the people who are sure they are not

>>>> receiving their licenses: the alternate route CATs.

>>>>

>>>> I am one of those people and this email also

>>> gathers

>>>> others in my same position. This also applies to

>>> Art,

>>>> Drama and Poetry Therapy as well.

>>>>

>>>> We are the people who had so much passion for this

>>>> field that being a bystander was not enough, so we

>>>> went beyond our master's degrees to gather

>>> additional

>>>> courses anywhere we found them. We are the ones

>>> that

>>>> didn't have the protective bubble of an university,

>>>> who paid for this career with our own money because

>>>> student loans wouldn't cover it, who don't have an

>>>> university reunion to go to in conferences, who

>>>> struggled to find their own internships and

>>> contacts

>>>> and who traveled to become a part of this field.

>>>>

>>>> But if you are in NY and have practiced for less

>>> than

>>>> 7 years, you will NOT get licensed. For most of us,

>>> a

>>>> change in career is not an option.

>>>>

>>>> So I ask, what is being done? Where are the

>>>> credentials committees that approved us, the

>>> lobbyists

>>>> for this license, the Alternate Route Centers that

>>>> taught us? Dani Fraenkel from Kinections can't do

>>> it

>>>> alone. Why have we not heard these voices? I don't

>>>> think we really understand that there are some

>>>> people's careers and homes at stake. And sitting

>>> back

>>>> and saying " those poor Alternate Route CATs wont

>>> get

>>>> it " or brushing us under the rug is not a way to

>>> show

>>>> support to professionals who have fought to be a

>>> part

>>>> of this field.

>>>>

>>>> I thank the people who have listened and gave their

>>>> time to our emails and applications. But going back

>>>> and getting a master's in CAT or a different field

>>> is

>>>> not an option for many. I invite anyone who has an

>>>> interest in this issue to come forth with options

>>> and

>>>> solutions. I know all of us worked really hard to

>>> get

>>>> those applications together, which was a

>>> nightmarish

>>>> process. But the work is not over. Let's not

>>> forget

>>>> there are some of our colleagues left behind.

>>>>

>>>> Inaction is not an option.

>>>>

>>>> Thania Acaron, MA DTR

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> __________________________________________________

>>>>

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Guest guest

,

I think the problem here is that they will only approve of

masters degrees in one of the CATS. The board therefore

has limited licensing to only the CATS who come from

CAT programs in NYC. The Board considers an " alternate

route " CAT masters programs outside of NY.

Elissa

> Thania and others:

> I emailed yesterday but the list rejected it; don't know why. So I hope

> this

> goes through. Please feel free to send it to the list if it does not get

> posted. If this is confusing, maybe Joan or someone else can help bring

> some

> clarity.

>

> I provide alternate route education and I believe that alternate route in

> dance/movement therapy can provide  high quality education and training

> for

> the profession. But alternate route training centers are private

> businesses.

> They are not accredited by the official organizations that accredit

> colleges

> and university programs. Therefore, they do not have to meet criteria set

> by

> these organizations or pay fees for accreditation. (Anyone who knows more

> about this, please feel free to share.) Licensure boards cannot venture

> into

> approving programs; they have no way of knowing whether a program is

> providing the appropriate education and training or not. Licensure boards

> are limited to creating criteria for approval of individual applications

> for

> licensure. In order to best serve the public, boards try to create broad

> criteria for the initial licensure window. After this window, everything

> can

> change. Usually, criteria become more narrow.

>

> I am familiar with licensure boards and I know that if you are asking the

> licensure board to approve degrees other than degrees in counseling,

> social

> work, psychology, or CATs (such as dance education, human development,

> recreation, or any other education degree), you are asking the licensure

> board to set a precedent that will create huge liability for every

> licensure

> board and national certification board in the health professions

> nationwide.

> It also will open the door to the professions for evey other person with

> a

> degree in that area. Obviously we cannot allow anyone with a masters in

> education to be licensed as a therapist. And if this happens, what next?

> Bachelor's degrees? Licensure boards cannot give blanket approval to any

> degrees that do not specifically educate and train for the profession that

> is being licensed. The board can review applications on a case by case

> basis. If you do not qualify for one of the routes provided for licensure,

> you can appeal your case.

>

> It is, in fact, quite arguable, that if you do not have a graduate degree

> in

> CAT, counseling or a related psychotherapy profession, you are not

> qualified

> to pursue private practice.

>

> We (the professions) knew when we began to pursue licensure that some

> people

> would not be able to be licensed. This does not prevent you from working

> in

> the majority of states. It does prevent you from forming your own private

> practice. In most states, you can work for someone else who is licensed.

>

> If the law in NY states that you must be licensed to work in any capacity

> (for an institution or as an employee for another licensed person), then

> you

> can base your appeal on your " right to work. " A state cannot pass a law

> that

> takes away the earning ability (means for survival) of a person who was

> already employed in that capacity when the law was passed. HOWEVER, if you

> were not already in private practice, the state can maintain that you do

> not

> need the license.

>

> Again, there are many people (many many people) who have had to return to

> grad school because of licensure bills. Most did it because they wanted to

> practice privately. Ask these questions: Does NY require you to have a

> license in order to work? If not, do you want to have a private practice?

> If

> yes, Does NY require you to have a license to practice privately? If yes,

> find out what this will involve before you are discouraged about

> licensure.

>

> Armeniox

>

>

>

> Re: Inaction is not an option

> >>

> >>

> >> Thania,

> >>

> >>     I wrote to  you and to the list  in April about

> >> receiving by LCAT

> >> and LMHC  as an alternate route ADTR.  Have you been

> >> rejected

> >> outright? As far as I know, you do not have to have

> >> practised in NY

> >> for 7 years, but have had to be in the field for at

> >> least 7 years.

> >>

> >>   I do think that something is off about their

> >> approval process for

> >> education. The LCAT licensing people do not seem to

> >> be recognizing

> >> the Masters level education of alternate route

> >> people, but the LMHC

> >> Educational approval committee did. I was approved

> >> on Alternate Route

> >> I for LMHC, but Alternate route 2 and 3 for LCAT.

> >> This was very

> >> weird for me and the LCAT people couldn't really

> >> explain it.

> >>

> >> What suggestions do you or Dani have in terms of

> >> lobbying?  Have you

> >> or anyone else spoken with people on the Licensing

> >> approval

> >> committee? How about Joan Wittig? She is the ADTR on

> >> the committee (

> >> I think).

> >>

> >> If you, or other folks think there are ways we can

> >> help, I would be

> >> glad to try.

> >>

> >> Pamela Faith Lerman

> >>

> >>

> >> >As the Licensure talk slows down,  I imagine most

> >> of

> >> >the CAT field is in the process of receiving their

> >> >licenses throughout the year. I wanted to bring

> >> some

> >> >attention to the people who are sure they are not

> >> >receiving their licenses: the alternate route CATs.

> >> >

> >> >I am one of those people and this email also

> >> gathers

> >> >others in my same position. This also applies to

> >> Art,

> >> >Drama and Poetry Therapy as well.

> >> >

> >> >We are the people who had so much passion for this

> >> >field that being a bystander was not enough, so we

> >> >went beyond our master's degrees to gather

> >> additional

> >> >courses anywhere we found them. We are the ones

> >> that

> >> >didn't have the protective bubble of an university,

> >> >who paid for this career with our own money because

> >> >student loans wouldn't cover it, who don't have an

> >> >university reunion to go to in conferences, who

> >> >struggled to find their own internships and

> >> contacts

> >> >and who traveled to become a part of this field.

> >> >

> >> >But if you are in NY and have practiced for less

> >> than

> >> >7 years, you will NOT get licensed. For most of us,

> >> a

> >> >change in career is not an option.

> >> >

> >> >So I ask, what is being done? Where are the

> >> >credentials committees that approved us, the

> >> lobbyists

> >> >for this license, the Alternate Route Centers that

> >> >taught us? Dani Fraenkel from Kinections can't do

> >> it

> >> >alone. Why have we not heard these voices? I don't

> >> >think we really understand that there are some

> >> >people's careers and homes at stake.  And sitting

> >> back

> >> >and saying " those poor Alternate Route CATs wont

> >> get

> >> >it "   or brushing us under the rug is not a way to

> >> show

> >> >support to professionals  who have fought to be a

> >> part

> >> >of this field.

> >> >

> >> >I thank the people who have listened and gave their

> >> >time to our emails and applications. But going back

> >> >and getting a master's in CAT or a different field

> >> is

> >> >not an option for many.  I invite anyone who has an

> >> >interest in this issue to come forth with options

> >> and

> >> >solutions. I know all of us worked really hard to

> >> get

> >> >those applications together, which was a

> >> nightmarish

> >> >process.  But the work is not over. Let's not

> >> forget

> >> >there are some of our colleagues left behind.

> >> >

> >> >Inaction is not an option.

> >> >

> >> >Thania Acaron, MA DTR

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >__________________________________________________

> >> >

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I was grandfathered in with a masters in expressive therapy from Lesley College in Massachusetts. I also have 28 years of experience. So I am not sure that the issue is what state ones university program is in.

Walters

Re: Inaction is not an option>>>>>> Thania,>>>> I wrote to you and to the list in April about>> receiving by LCAT>> and LMHC as an alternate route ADTR. Have you been>> rejected>> outright? As far as I know, you do not have to have>> practised in NY>> for 7 years, but have had to be in the field for at>> least 7 years.>>>> I do think that something is off about their>> approval process for>> education. The LCAT licensing people do not seem to>> be recognizing>> the Masters level education of alternate route>> people, but the LMHC>> Educational approval committee did. I was approved>> on Alternate Route>> I for LMHC, but Alternate route 2 and 3 for LCAT.>> This was very>> weird for me and the LCAT people couldn't really>> explain it.>>>> What suggestions do you or Dani have in terms of>> lobbying? Have you>> or anyone else spoken with people on the Licensing>> approval>> committee? How about Joan Wittig? She is the ADTR on>> the committee (>> I think).>>>> If you, or other folks think there are ways we can>> help, I would be>> glad to try.>>>> Pamela Faith Lerman>>>>>> >As the Licensure talk slows down, I imagine most>> of>> >the CAT field is in the process of receiving their>> >licenses throughout the year. I wanted to bring>> some>> >attention to the people who are sure they are not>> >receiving their licenses: the alternate route CATs.>> >>> >I am one of those people and this email also>> gathers>> >others in my same position. This also applies to>> Art,>> >Drama and Poetry Therapy as well.>> >>> >We are the people who had so much passion for this>> >field that being a bystander was not enough, so we>> >went beyond our master's degrees to gather>> additional>> >courses anywhere we found them. We are the ones>> that>> >didn't have the protective bubble of an university,>> >who paid for this career with our own money because>> >student loans wouldn't cover it, who don't have an>> >university reunion to go to in conferences, who>> >struggled to find their own internships and>> contacts>> >and who traveled to become a part of this field.>> >>> >But if you are in NY and have practiced for less>> than>> >7 years, you will NOT get licensed. For most of us,>> a>> >change in career is not an option.>> >>> >So I ask, what is being done? Where are the>> >credentials committees that approved us, the>> lobbyists>> >for this license, the Alternate Route Centers that>> >taught us? Dani Fraenkel from Kinections can't do>> it>> >alone. Why have we not heard these voices? I don't>> >think we really understand that there are some>> >people's careers and homes at stake. And sitting>> back>> >and saying "those poor Alternate Route CATs wont>> get>> >it" or brushing us under the rug is not a way to>> show>> >support to professionals who have fought to be a>> part>> >of this field.>> >>> >I thank the people who have listened and gave their>> >time to our emails and applications. But going back>> >and getting a master's in CAT or a different field>> is>> >not an option for many. I invite anyone who has an>> >interest in this issue to come forth with options>> and>> >solutions. I know all of us worked really hard to>> get>> >those applications together, which was a>> nightmarish>> >process. But the work is not over. Let's not>> forget>> >there are some of our colleagues left behind.>> >>> >Inaction is not an option.>> >>> >Thania Acaron, MA DTR>> >>> >>> >>> >__________________________________________________>> >

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,

You had 28 years of experience. I am referring to those applying

for licensing after January 1, 2006.

elissa

On Wednesday, May 10, 2006, at 08:50 PM, HV Psychodrama wrote:

> I was grandfathered in with a masters in expressive therapy from Lesley

> College in Massachusetts. I also have 28 years of experience. So I am not

> sure that the issue is what state ones university program is in.

> Walters

>

> Re: Inaction is not an option

> >>

> >>

> >> Thania,

> >>

> >>     I wrote to  you and to the list  in April about

> >> receiving by LCAT

> >> and LMHC  as an alternate route ADTR.  Have you been

> >> rejected

> >> outright? As far as I know, you do not have to have

> >> practised in NY

> >> for 7 years, but have had to be in the field for at

> >> least 7 years.

> >>

> >>   I do think that something is off about their

> >> approval process for

> >> education. The LCAT licensing people do not seem to

> >> be recognizing

> >> the Masters level education of alternate route

> >> people, but the LMHC

> >> Educational approval committee did. I was approved

> >> on Alternate Route

> >> I for LMHC, but Alternate route 2 and 3 for LCAT.

> >> This was very

> >> weird for me and the LCAT people couldn't really

> >> explain it.

> >>

> >> What suggestions do you or Dani have in terms of

> >> lobbying?  Have you

> >> or anyone else spoken with people on the Licensing

> >> approval

> >> committee? How about Joan Wittig? She is the ADTR on

> >> the committee (

> >> I think).

> >>

> >> If you, or other folks think there are ways we can

> >> help, I would be

> >> glad to try.

> >>

> >> Pamela Faith Lerman

> >>

> >>

> >> >As the Licensure talk slows down,  I imagine most

> >> of

> >> >the CAT field is in the process of receiving their

> >> >licenses throughout the year. I wanted to bring

> >> some

> >> >attention to the people who are sure they are not

> >> >receiving their licenses: the alternate route CATs.

> >> >

> >> >I am one of those people and this email also

> >> gathers

> >> >others in my same position. This also applies to

> >> Art,

> >> >Drama and Poetry Therapy as well.

> >> >

> >> >We are the people who had so much passion for this

> >> >field that being a bystander was not enough, so we

> >> >went beyond our master's degrees to gather

> >> additional

> >> >courses anywhere we found them. We are the ones

> >> that

> >> >didn't have the protective bubble of an university,

> >> >who paid for this career with our own money because

> >> >student loans wouldn't cover it, who don't have an

> >> >university reunion to go to in conferences, who

> >> >struggled to find their own internships and

> >> contacts

> >> >and who traveled to become a part of this field.

> >> >

> >> >But if you are in NY and have practiced for less

> >> than

> >> >7 years, you will NOT get licensed. For most of us,

> >> a

> >> >change in career is not an option.

> >> >

> >> >So I ask, what is being done? Where are the

> >> >credentials committees that approved us, the

> >> lobbyists

> >> >for this license, the Alternate Route Centers that

> >> >taught us? Dani Fraenkel from Kinections can't do

> >> it

> >> >alone. Why have we not heard these voices? I don't

> >> >think we really understand that there are some

> >> >people's careers and homes at stake.  And sitting

> >> back

> >> >and saying " those poor Alternate Route CATs wont

> >> get

> >> >it "   or brushing us under the rug is not a way to

> >> show

> >> >support to professionals  who have fought to be a

> >> part

> >> >of this field.

> >> >

> >> >I thank the people who have listened and gave their

> >> >time to our emails and applications. But going back

> >> >and getting a master's in CAT or a different field

> >> is

> >> >not an option for many.  I invite anyone who has an

> >> >interest in this issue to come forth with options

> >> and

> >> >solutions. I know all of us worked really hard to

> >> get

> >> >those applications together, which was a

> >> nightmarish

> >> >process.  But the work is not over. Let's not

> >> forget

> >> >there are some of our colleagues left behind.

> >> >

> >> >Inaction is not an option.

> >> >

> >> >Thania Acaron, MA DTR

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >__________________________________________________

> >> >

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Ah....OK, thanks for clarifying.

Re: Inaction is not an option>>>>>> Thania,>>>> I wrote to you and to the list in April about>> receiving by LCAT>> and LMHC as an alternate route ADTR. Have you been>> rejected>> outright? As far as I know, you do not have to have>> practised in NY>> for 7 years, but have had to be in the field for at>> least 7 years.>>>> I do think that something is off about their>> approval process for>> education. The LCAT licensing people do not seem to>> be recognizing>> the Masters level education of alternate route>> people, but the LMHC>> Educational approval committee did. I was approved>> on Alternate Route>> I for LMHC, but Alternate route 2 and 3 for LCAT.>> This was very>> weird for me and the LCAT people couldn't really>> explain it.>>>> What suggestions do you or Dani have in terms of>> lobbying? Have you>> or anyone else spoken with people on the Licensing>> approval>> committee? How about Joan Wittig? She is the ADTR on>> the committee (>> I think).>>>> If you, or other folks think there are ways we can>> help, I would be>> glad to try.>>>> Pamela Faith Lerman>>>>>> >As the Licensure talk slows down, I imagine most>> of>> >the CAT field is in the process of receiving their>> >licenses throughout the year. I wanted to bring>> some>> >attention to the people who are sure they are not>> >receiving their licenses: the alternate route CATs.>> >>> >I am one of those people and this email also>> gathers>> >others in my same position. This also applies to>> Art,>> >Drama and Poetry Therapy as well.>> >>> >We are the people who had so much passion for this>> >field that being a bystander was not enough, so we>> >went beyond our master's degrees to gather>> additional>> >courses anywhere we found them. We are the ones>> that>> >didn't have the protective bubble of an university,>> >who paid for this career with our own money because>> >student loans wouldn't cover it, who don't have an>> >university reunion to go to in conferences, who>> >struggled to find their own internships and>> contacts>> >and who traveled to become a part of this field.>> >>> >But if you are in NY and have practiced for less>> than>> >7 years, you will NOT get licensed. For most of us,>> a>> >change in career is not an option.>> >>> >So I ask, what is being done? Where are the>> >credentials committees that approved us, the>> lobbyists>> >for this license, the Alternate Route Centers that>> >taught us? Dani Fraenkel from Kinections can't do>> it>> >alone. Why have we not heard these voices? I don't>> >think we really understand that there are some>> >people's careers and homes at stake. And sitting>> back>> >and saying "those poor Alternate Route CATs wont>> get>> >it" or brushing us under the rug is not a way to>> show>> >support to professionals who have fought to be a>> part>> >of this field.>> >>> >I thank the people who have listened and gave their>> >time to our emails and applications. But going back>> >and getting a master's in CAT or a different field>> is>> >not an option for many. I invite anyone who has an>> >interest in this issue to come forth with options>> and>> >solutions. I know all of us worked really hard to>> get>> >those applications together, which was a>> nightmarish>> >process. But the work is not over. Let's not>> forget>> >there are some of our colleagues left behind.>> >>> >Inaction is not an option.>> >>> >Thania Acaron, MA DTR>> >>> >>> >>> >__________________________________________________>> >

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Licensing boards generally approve degrees in specified disciplines from accredited colleges or universities. It does not matter what state the program is in. (It does matter if the program is outside the US.) They generally do not approve degrees in unrelated disciplines or from programs that are not provided by accredited colleges or universities.

Armeniox

Re: Inaction is not an option>>>>>> Thania,>>>> I wrote to you and to the list in April about>> receiving by LCAT>> and LMHC as an alternate route ADTR. Have you been>> rejected>> outright? As far as I know, you do not have to have>> practised in NY>> for 7 years, but have had to be in the field for at>> least 7 years.>>>> I do think that something is off about their>> approval process for>> education. The LCAT licensing people do not seem to>> be recognizing>> the Masters level education of alternate route>> people, but the LMHC>> Educational approval committee did. I was approved>> on Alternate Route>> I for LMHC, but Alternate route 2 and 3 for LCAT.>> This was very>> weird for me and the LCAT people couldn't really>> explain it.>>>> What suggestions do you or Dani have in terms of>> lobbying? Have you>> or anyone else spoken with people on the Licensing>> approval>> committee? How about Joan Wittig? She is the ADTR on>> the committee (>> I think).>>>> If you, or other folks think there are ways we can>> help, I would be>> glad to try.>>>> Pamela Faith Lerman>>>>>> >As the Licensure talk slows down, I imagine most>> of>> >the CAT field is in the process of receiving their>> >licenses throughout the year. I wanted to bring>> some>> >attention to the people who are sure they are not>> >receiving their licenses: the alternate route CATs.>> >>> >I am one of those people and this email also>> gathers>> >others in my same position. This also applies to>> Art,>> >Drama and Poetry Therapy as well.>> >>> >We are the people who had so much passion for this>> >field that being a bystander was not enough, so we>> >went beyond our master's degrees to gather>> additional>> >courses anywhere we found them. We are the ones>> that>> >didn't have the protective bubble of an university,>> >who paid for this career with our own money because>> >student loans wouldn't cover it, who don't have an>> >university reunion to go to in conferences, who>> >struggled to find their own internships and>> contacts>> >and who traveled to become a part of this field.>> >>> >But if you are in NY and have practiced for less>> than>> >7 years, you will NOT get licensed. For most of us,>> a>> >change in career is not an option.>> >>> >So I ask, what is being done? Where are the>> >credentials committees that approved us, the>> lobbyists>> >for this license, the Alternate Route Centers that>> >taught us? Dani Fraenkel from Kinections can't do>> it>> >alone. Why have we not heard these voices? I don't>> >think we really understand that there are some>> >people's careers and homes at stake. And sitting>> back>> >and saying "those poor Alternate Route CATs wont>> get>> >it" or brushing us under the rug is not a way to>> show>> >support to professionals who have fought to be a>> part>> >of this field.>> >>> >I thank the people who have listened and gave their>> >time to our emails and applications. But going back>> >and getting a master's in CAT or a different field>> is>> >not an option for many. I invite anyone who has an>> >interest in this issue to come forth with options>> and>> >solutions. I know all of us worked really hard to>> get>> >those applications together, which was a>> nightmarish>> >process. But the work is not over. Let's not>> forget>> >there are some of our colleagues left behind.>> >>> >Inaction is not an option.>> >>> >Thania Acaron, MA DTR>> >>> >>> >>> >__________________________________________________>> >

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,

Every state is different. It is well known in many fields that New

York's licensure procedures are demanding, restrictive, or quirky,

depending on how you want to to look at NYS's approaches to protecting

its consumers and educational institutions.

When Elissa and I sat around a table with @ 8 State Ed officials that

included Hamilton and the head of the Comparative Education

Department, they all made tow things clear. First, students who want

to intern in NYS may only do so if they are enrolled

in an NYS Ed approved program. Students who reside in NY and go to grad

school out of state may only intern in NYS if their school has been

approved by State Ed. It takes about two years to get approval. This is

true of all programs, including medicine.

Second, CATs who wish to be licensed in NYS must graduate from one

of the programs approved by State Ed. Applicants from out-of-state

programs will have to work through comparative education to demonstrate

that they are qualified for licensure in NYS. In either case, in-state

or out-of-state, the applicants must have a Masters in the CATs or a

masters in one of the CATs. Thus a master's degree in psychology is

not acceptable, even though it is in a related area.

As a result the list member with a masters in psychology who completed

her art therapy

program via the alternate route at Pratt, a bonfide university, was not

licensed. How does that decision protect the consumer?

That someone with a masters in dance education who did her internship

in dance therapy, took all the dance therapy courses that her

university offered, took all the requisite graduate psychology courses,

pursued alternate route training in dance/movement therapy at Kinections,

a NYS institute program, took courses at Drexel, and has successfully

worked in the field was not licensed makes no sense. How does a

decision of this nature protect the consumer?

To spend exorbitant legal fees on a case by case level is an expensive

way to help single individuals. What about the many CATs who cannot

afford lawyers? If a law suit becomes the best way to go, a class

action would be far more effective. Working as a collective will give

us the strength we need. However, I do not know if a class action suit

will help future CATs. Working with our representatives in the State

Assembly and Senate to have an amendment of clarification added to the

education law will serve future applicants for licensure as well as our

colleagues who are struggling for recognition today.

As the director of Kinections, I am aware of the numbers of New

Yorkers I have turned away because of State Ed and the Regents'

failures to interpret the law in the way it was intended. I am also

aware of how disappointed these potential dance/movement therapists

have been. ,

Dani Fraenkel

Director,

Kinections http://www.kinections.com

Larmeniox wrote:

Licensing boards generally approve

degrees in specified disciplines from accredited colleges or

universities. It does not matter what state the program is in. (It does

matter if the program is outside the US.) They generally do not approve

degrees in unrelated disciplines or from programs that are not provided

by accredited colleges or universities.

Armeniox

-----

Original Message -----

From:

Elissa

White

To:

NYCCAT

Sent:

Wednesday, May 10, 2006 10:04 PM

Subject:

Re: Response

,

You had 28 years of experience. I am referring to those applying

for licensing after January 1, 2006.

elissa

On Wednesday, May 10, 2006, at 08:50 PM, HV Psychodrama wrote:

I was grandfathered in with a masters in expressive

therapy from Lesley College in Massachusetts. I also have 28 years of

experience. So I am not sure that the issue is what state ones

university program is in.

Walters

Re: Inaction is not an option

>>

>>

>> Thania,

>>

>> I wrote to you and to the list in April about

>> receiving by LCAT

>> and LMHC as an alternate route ADTR. Have you been

>> rejected

>> outright? As far as I know, you do not have to have

>> practised in NY

>> for 7 years, but have had to be in the field for at

>> least 7 years.

>>

>> I do think that something is off about their

>> approval process for

>> education. The LCAT licensing people do not seem to

>> be recognizing

>> the Masters level education of alternate route

>> people, but the LMHC

>> Educational approval committee did. I was approved

>> on Alternate Route

>> I for LMHC, but Alternate route 2 and 3 for LCAT.

>> This was very

>> weird for me and the LCAT people couldn't really

>> explain it.

>>

>> What suggestions do you or Dani have in terms of

>> lobbying? Have you

>> or anyone else spoken with people on the Licensing

>> approval

>> committee? How about Joan Wittig? She is the ADTR on

>> the committee (

>> I think).

>>

>> If you, or other folks think there are ways we can

>> help, I would be

>> glad to try.

>>

>> Pamela Faith Lerman

>>

>>

>> >As the Licensure talk slows down, I imagine most

>> of

>> >the CAT field is in the process of receiving their

>> >licenses throughout the year. I wanted to bring

>> some

>> >attention to the people who are sure they are not

>> >receiving their licenses: the alternate route CATs.

>> >

>> >I am one of those people and this email also

>> gathers

>> >others in my same position. This also applies to

>> Art,

>> >Drama and Poetry Therapy as well.

>> >

>> >We are the people who had so much passion for this

>> >field that being a bystander was not enough, so we

>> >went beyond our master's degrees to gather

>> additional

>> >courses anywhere we found them. We are the ones

>> that

>> >didn't have the protective bubble of an university,

>> >who paid for this career with our own money because

>> >student loans wouldn't cover it, who don't have an

>> >university reunion to go to in conferences, who

>> >struggled to find their own internships and

>> contacts

>> >and who traveled to become a part of this field.

>> >

>> >But if you are in NY and have practiced for less

>> than

>> >7 years, you will NOT get licensed. For most of us,

>> a

>> >change in career is not an option.

>> >

>> >So I ask, what is being done? Where are the

>> >credentials committees that approved us, the

>> lobbyists

>> >for this license, the Alternate Route Centers that

>> >taught us? Dani Fraenkel from Kinections can't do

>> it

>> >alone. Why have we not heard these voices? I don't

>> >think we really understand that there are some

>> >people's careers and homes at stake. And sitting

>> back

>> >and saying "those poor Alternate Route CATs wont

>> get

>> >it" or brushing us under the rug is not a way to

>> show

>> >support to professionals who have fought to be a

>> part

>> >of this field.

>> >

>> >I thank the people who have listened and gave their

>> >time to our emails and applications. But going back

>> >and getting a master's in CAT or a different field

>> is

>> >not an option for many. I invite anyone who has an

>> >interest in this issue to come forth with options

>> and

>> >solutions. I know all of us worked really hard to

>> get

>> >those applications together, which was a

>> nightmarish

>> >process. But the work is not over. Let's not

>> forget

>> >there are some of our colleagues left behind.

>> >

>> >Inaction is not an option.

>> >

>> >Thania Acaron, MA DTR

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >__________________________________________________

>> >

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I am under the impression that the state licenses psychoanalysts who get their training through institutes that are non degree granting but are registered by the state.

Re: Inaction is not an option>>>>>> Thania,>>>> I wrote to you and to the list in April about>> receiving by LCAT>> and LMHC as an alternate route ADTR. Have you been>> rejected>> outright? As far as I know, you do not have to have>> practised in NY>> for 7 years, but have had to be in the field for at>> least 7 years.>>>> I do think that something is off about their>> approval process for>> education. The LCAT licensing people do not seem to>> be recognizing>> the Masters level education of alternate route>> people, but the LMHC>> Educational approval committee did. I was approved>> on Alternate Route>> I for LMHC, but Alternate route 2 and 3 for LCAT.>> This was very>> weird for me and the LCAT people couldn't really>> explain it.>>>> What suggestions do you or Dani have in terms of>> lobbying? Have you>> or anyone else spoken with people on the Licensing>> approval>> committee? How about Joan Wittig? She is the ADTR on>> the committee (>> I think).>>>> If you, or other folks think there are ways we can>> help, I would be>> glad to try.>>>> Pamela Faith Lerman>>>>>> >As the Licensure talk slows down, I imagine most>> of>> >the CAT field is in the process of receiving their>> >licenses throughout the year. I wanted to bring>> some>> >attention to the people who are sure they are not>> >receiving their licenses: the alternate route CATs.>> >>> >I am one of those people and this email also>> gathers>> >others in my same position. This also applies to>> Art,>> >Drama and Poetry Therapy as well.>> >>> >We are the people who had so much passion for this>> >field that being a bystander was not enough, so we>> >went beyond our master's degrees to gather>> additional>> >courses anywhere we found them. We are the ones>> that>> >didn't have the protective bubble of an university,>> >who paid for this career with our own money because>> >student loans wouldn't cover it, who don't have an>> >university reunion to go to in conferences, who>> >struggled to find their own internships and>> contacts>> >and who traveled to become a part of this field.>> >>> >But if you are in NY and have practiced for less>> than>> >7 years, you will NOT get licensed. For most of us,>> a>> >change in career is not an option.>> >>> >So I ask, what is being done? Where are the>> >credentials committees that approved us, the>> lobbyists>> >for this license, the Alternate Route Centers that>> >taught us? Dani Fraenkel from Kinections can't do>> it>> >alone. Why have we not heard these voices? I don't>> >think we really understand that there are some>> >people's careers and homes at stake. And sitting>> back>> >and saying "those poor Alternate Route CATs wont>> get>> >it" or brushing us under the rug is not a way to>> show>> >support to professionals who have fought to be a>> part>> >of this field.>> >>> >I thank the people who have listened and gave their>> >time to our emails and applications. But going back>> >and getting a master's in CAT or a different field>> is>> >not an option for many. I invite anyone who has an>> >interest in this issue to come forth with options>> and>> >solutions. I know all of us worked really hard to>> get>> >those applications together, which was a>> nightmarish>> >process. But the work is not over. Let's not>> forget>> >there are some of our colleagues left behind.>> >>> >Inaction is not an option.>> >>> >Thania Acaron, MA DTR>> >>> >>> >>> >__________________________________________________>> >

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Dani and others,

I do understand how this feels. I hear you saying that you all had an agreement, at least verbally, that did not get translated into what you thought you had agreed to. I am not sayig what they did was right;I am just telling you what I know from years of experience working with boards and attending their conferences and educating them at conferences. No matter how quirky, these board members talk to each other. They plan together. There are plans to have unified boards for each state and possibly national licensure. Quirky or different may be what the law provides in the beginning, but eventually, the regulations narrow and become more alike, across the states. In the long run, the states that insist on having the quirky bills do not serve their residents (consumers and providers) well.

Also, I believe the licensure law does provide for an appeal process. Any attorney will advise you to use this process, as provided by law, rather than pursue a suit of the board, which is a suit of the state. It is my understanding that a class action suit is a liability action. You do not have a liability suit here; you have law enacted to prevent liability actions. The expensive part of the appeal process is the creation of the written appeal. Thus, the appeal we have on file could be updated and used for an individual case.

I think you could talk to the assistant AG assigned to the board as well. Perhaps this person could shed some light on the law's wording and its interpretation.

Re: Inaction is not an option>>>>>> Thania,>>>> I wrote to you and to the list in April about>> receiving by LCAT>> and LMHC as an alternate route ADTR. Have you been>> rejected>> outright? As far as I know, you do not have to have>> practised in NY>> for 7 years, but have had to be in the field for at>> least 7 years.>>>> I do think that something is off about their>> approval process for>> education. The LCAT licensing people do not seem to>> be recognizing>> the Masters level education of alternate route>> people, but the LMHC>> Educational approval committee did. I was approved>> on Alternate Route>> I for LMHC, but Alternate route 2 and 3 for LCAT.>> This was very>> weird for me and the LCAT people couldn't really>> explain it.>>>> What suggestions do you or Dani have in terms of>> lobbying? Have you>> or anyone else spoken with people on the Licensing>> approval>> committee? How about Joan Wittig? She is the ADTR on>> the committee (>> I think).>>>> If you, or other folks think there are ways we can>> help, I would be>> glad to try.>>>> Pamela Faith Lerman>>>>>> >As the Licensure talk slows down, I imagine most>> of>> >the CAT field is in the process of receiving their>> >licenses throughout the year. I wanted to bring>> some>> >attention to the people who are sure they are not>> >receiving their licenses: the alternate route CATs.>> >>> >I am one of those people and this email also>> gathers>> >others in my same position. This also applies to>> Art,>> >Drama and Poetry Therapy as well.>> >>> >We are the people who had so much passion for this>> >field that being a bystander was not enough, so we>> >went beyond our master's degrees to gather>> additional>> >courses anywhere we found them. We are the ones>> that>> >didn't have the protective bubble of an university,>> >who paid for this career with our own money because>> >student loans wouldn't cover it, who don't have an>> >university reunion to go to in conferences, who>> >struggled to find their own internships and>> contacts>> >and who traveled to become a part of this field.>> >>> >But if you are in NY and have practiced for less>> than>> >7 years, you will NOT get licensed. For most of us,>> a>> >change in career is not an option.>> >>> >So I ask, what is being done? Where are the>> >credentials committees that approved us, the>> lobbyists>> >for this license, the Alternate Route Centers that>> >taught us? Dani Fraenkel from Kinections can't do>> it>> >alone. Why have we not heard these voices? I don't>> >think we really understand that there are some>> >people's careers and homes at stake. And sitting>> back>> >and saying "those poor Alternate Route CATs wont>> get>> >it" or brushing us under the rug is not a way to>> show>> >support to professionals who have fought to be a>> part>> >of this field.>> >>> >I thank the people who have listened and gave their>> >time to our emails and applications. But going back>> >and getting a master's in CAT or a different field>> is>> >not an option for many. I invite anyone who has an>> >interest in this issue to come forth with options>> and>> >solutions. I know all of us worked really hard to>> get>> >those applications together, which was a>> nightmarish>> >process. But the work is not over. Let's not>> forget>> >there are some of our colleagues left behind.>> >>> >Inaction is not an option.>> >>> >Thania Acaron, MA DTR>> >>> >>> >>> >__________________________________________________>> >

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Thanks for reminding me. Psychoanalysts would be an exception, especially in NY. They have a precedent court action, though, in California, against the psychology board there. The case was presented at licensure board conferences several years back and I spent time discussing the issue (several hours) with the attorney for the case. He was making an argument based on first amendment rights. While it is very difficult to make a constitutional law argument in a state court, he was heard, and was given the opportunity to present arguments to licensure board members.

This does help clear up my concerns about non-accredited programs. Perhaps I can check into psychanalytic institutes to find a model for my training program for DMT. Thank you.

Re: Inaction is not an option>>>>>> Thania,>>>> I wrote to you and to the list in April about>> receiving by LCAT>> and LMHC as an alternate route ADTR. Have you been>> rejected>> outright? As far as I know, you do not have to have>> practised in NY>> for 7 years, but have had to be in the field for at>> least 7 years.>>>> I do think that something is off about their>> approval process for>> education. The LCAT licensing people do not seem to>> be recognizing>> the Masters level education of alternate route>> people, but the LMHC>> Educational approval committee did. I was approved>> on Alternate Route>> I for LMHC, but Alternate route 2 and 3 for LCAT.>> This was very>> weird for me and the LCAT people couldn't really>> explain it.>>>> What suggestions do you or Dani have in terms of>> lobbying? Have you>> or anyone else spoken with people on the Licensing>> approval>> committee? How about Joan Wittig? She is the ADTR on>> the committee (>> I think).>>>> If you, or other folks think there are ways we can>> help, I would be>> glad to try.>>>> Pamela Faith Lerman>>>>>> >As the Licensure talk slows down, I imagine most>> of>> >the CAT field is in the process of receiving their>> >licenses throughout the year. I wanted to bring>> some>> >attention to the people who are sure they are not>> >receiving their licenses: the alternate route CATs.>> >>> >I am one of those people and this email also>> gathers>> >others in my same position. This also applies to>> Art,>> >Drama and Poetry Therapy as well.>> >>> >We are the people who had so much passion for this>> >field that being a bystander was not enough, so we>> >went beyond our master's degrees to gather>> additional>> >courses anywhere we found them. We are the ones>> that>> >didn't have the protective bubble of an university,>> >who paid for this career with our own money because>> >student loans wouldn't cover it, who don't have an>> >university reunion to go to in conferences, who>> >struggled to find their own internships and>> contacts>> >and who traveled to become a part of this field.>> >>> >But if you are in NY and have practiced for less>> than>> >7 years, you will NOT get licensed. For most of us,>> a>> >change in career is not an option.>> >>> >So I ask, what is being done? Where are the>> >credentials committees that approved us, the>> lobbyists>> >for this license, the Alternate Route Centers that>> >taught us? Dani Fraenkel from Kinections can't do>> it>> >alone. Why have we not heard these voices? I don't>> >think we really understand that there are some>> >people's careers and homes at stake. And sitting>> back>> >and saying "those poor Alternate Route CATs wont>> get>> >it" or brushing us under the rug is not a way to>> show>> >support to professionals who have fought to be a>> part>> >of this field.>> >>> >I thank the people who have listened and gave their>> >time to our emails and applications. But going back>> >and getting a master's in CAT or a different field>> is>> >not an option for many. I invite anyone who has an>> >interest in this issue to come forth with options>> and>> >solutions. I know all of us worked really hard to>> get>> >those applications together, which was a>> nightmarish>> >process. But the work is not over. Let's not>> forget>> >there are some of our colleagues left behind.>> >>> >Inaction is not an option.>> >>> >Thania Acaron, MA DTR>> >>> >>> >>> >__________________________________________________>> >

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Elissa,

The SED absolutely will recognize CAT masters programs from outside of New York. That will not be considered alternate route training. Programs in New York can apply for licensure status, meaning graduates will not have to prove course content. Applicants who graduate from schools outside of New York will have to prove course content, probably by submitting syllabi.

Joan

-----Original Message-----From: NYCCAT [mailto:NYCCAT ]On Behalf Of Elissa WhiteSent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 4:47 PMTo: NYCCAT Subject: Re: Response,I think the problem here is that they will only approve ofmasters degrees in one of the CATS. The board thereforehas limited licensing to only the CATS who come fromCAT programs in NYC. The Board considers an "alternateroute" CAT masters programs outside of NY.Elissa

Thania and others:I emailed yesterday but the list rejected it; don't know why. So I hope thisgoes through. Please feel free to send it to the list if it does not getposted. If this is confusing, maybe Joan or someone else can help bring someclarity.I provide alternate route education and I believe that alternate route indance/movement therapy can provide high quality education and training forthe profession. But alternate route training centers are private businesses.They are not accredited by the official organizations that accredit collegesand university programs. Therefore, they do not have to meet criteria set bythese organizations or pay fees for accreditation. (Anyone who knows moreabout this, please feel free to share.) Licensure boards cannot venture intoapproving programs; they have no way of knowing whether a program isproviding the appropriate education and training or not. Licensure boardsare limited to creating criteria for approval of individual applications forlicensure. In order to best serve the public, boards try to create broadcriteria for the initial licensure window. After this window, everything canchange. Usually, criteria become more narrow.I am familiar with licensure boards and I know that if you are asking thelicensure board to approve degrees other than degrees in counseling, socialwork, psychology, or CATs (such as dance education, human development,recreation, or any other education degree), you are asking the licensureboard to set a precedent that will create huge liability for every licensureboard and national certification board in the health professions nationwide.It also will open the door to the professions for evey other person with adegree in that area. Obviously we cannot allow anyone with a masters ineducation to be licensed as a therapist. And if this happens, what next?Bachelor's degrees? Licensure boards cannot give blanket approval to anydegrees that do not specifically educate and train for the profession thatis being licensed. The board can review applications on a case by casebasis. If you do not qualify for one of the routes provided for licensure,you can appeal your case.It is, in fact, quite arguable, that if you do not have a graduate degree inCAT, counseling or a related psychotherapy profession, you are not qualifiedto pursue private practice.We (the professions) knew when we began to pursue licensure that some peoplewould not be able to be licensed. This does not prevent you from working inthe majority of states. It does prevent you from forming your own privatepractice. In most states, you can work for someone else who is licensed.If the law in NY states that you must be licensed to work in any capacity(for an institution or as an employee for another licensed person), then youcan base your appeal on your "right to work." A state cannot pass a law thattakes away the earning ability (means for survival) of a person who wasalready employed in that capacity when the law was passed. HOWEVER, if youwere not already in private practice, the state can maintain that you do notneed the license.Again, there are many people (many many people) who have had to return tograd school because of licensure bills. Most did it because they wanted topractice privately. Ask these questions: Does NY require you to have alicense in order to work? If not, do you want to have a private practice? Ifyes, Does NY require you to have a license to practice privately? If yes,find out what this will involve before you are discouraged about licensure. Armeniox Re: Inaction is not an option>>>>>> Thania,>>>> I wrote to you and to the list in April about>> receiving by LCAT>> and LMHC as an alternate route ADTR. Have you been>> rejected>> outright? As far as I know, you do not have to have>> practised in NY>> for 7 years, but have had to be in the field for at>> least 7 years.>>>> I do think that something is off about their>> approval process for>> education. The LCAT licensing people do not seem to>> be recognizing>> the Masters level education of alternate route>> people, but the LMHC>> Educational approval committee did. I was approved>> on Alternate Route>> I for LMHC, but Alternate route 2 and 3 for LCAT.>> This was very>> weird for me and the LCAT people couldn't really>> explain it.>>>> What suggestions do you or Dani have in terms of>> lobbying? Have you>> or anyone else spoken with people on the Licensing>> approval>> committee? How about Joan Wittig? She is the ADTR on>> the committee (>> I think).>>>> If you, or other folks think there are ways we can>> help, I would be>> glad to try.>>>> Pamela Faith Lerman>>>>>> >As the Licensure talk slows down, I imagine most>> of>> >the CAT field is in the process of receiving their>> >licenses throughout the year. I wanted to bring>> some>> >attention to the people who are sure they are not>> >receiving their licenses: the alternate route CATs.>> >>> >I am one of those people and this email also>> gathers>> >others in my same position. This also applies to>> Art,>> >Drama and Poetry Therapy as well.>> >>> >We are the people who had so much passion for this>> >field that being a bystander was not enough, so we>> >went beyond our master's degrees to gather>> additional>> >courses anywhere we found them. We are the ones>> that>> >didn't have the protective bubble of an university,>> >who paid for this career with our own money because>> >student loans wouldn't cover it, who don't have an>> >university reunion to go to in conferences, who>> >struggled to find their own internships and>> contacts>> >and who traveled to become a part of this field.>> >>> >But if you are in NY and have practiced for less>> than>> >7 years, you will NOT get licensed. For most of us,>> a>> >change in career is not an option.>> >>> >So I ask, what is being done? Where are the>> >credentials committees that approved us, the>> lobbyists>> >for this license, the Alternate Route Centers that>> >taught us? Dani Fraenkel from Kinections can't do>> it>> >alone. Why have we not heard these voices? I don't>> >think we really understand that there are some>> >people's careers and homes at stake. And sitting>> back>> >and saying "those poor Alternate Route CATs wont>> get>> >it" or brushing us under the rug is not a way to>> show>> >support to professionals who have fought to be a>> part>> >of this field.>> >>> >I thank the people who have listened and gave their>> >time to our emails and applications. But going back>> >and getting a master's in CAT or a different field>> is>> >not an option for many. I invite anyone who has an>> >interest in this issue to come forth with options>> and>> >solutions. I know all of us worked really hard to>> get>> >those applications together, which was a>> nightmarish>> >process. But the work is not over. Let's not>> forget>> >there are some of our colleagues left behind.>> >>> >Inaction is not an option.>> >>> >Thania Acaron, MA DTR>> >>> >>> >>> >__________________________________________________>> >

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is correct. SED claims they can approve degrees from accredited programs, because they regulate them and know their course content. They feel they have no way to determine whether alternate sources are actually teaching what the state requires. Psychoanalytic institutes are not degree granting institutions, but are still regulated by the state. Perhaps this is an avenue to pursue, whereby institutions such as Kinections, or even schools that offer alternate route training, such as Pratt, can somehow be looked at like psychoanalytic institutes. Just a possible suggestion.

Joan

-----Original Message-----From: NYCCAT [mailto:NYCCAT ]On Behalf Of LarmenioxSent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:13 PMTo: NYCCAT Subject: Re: Response

Licensing boards generally approve degrees in specified disciplines from accredited colleges or universities. It does not matter what state the program is in. (It does matter if the program is outside the US.) They generally do not approve degrees in unrelated disciplines or from programs that are not provided by accredited colleges or universities.

Armeniox

Re: Inaction is not an option>>>>>> Thania,>>>> I wrote to you and to the list in April about>> receiving by LCAT>> and LMHC as an alternate route ADTR. Have you been>> rejected>> outright? As far as I know, you do not have to have>> practised in NY>> for 7 years, but have had to be in the field for at>> least 7 years.>>>> I do think that something is off about their>> approval process for>> education. The LCAT licensing people do not seem to>> be recognizing>> the Masters level education of alternate route>> people, but the LMHC>> Educational approval committee did. I was approved>> on Alternate Route>> I for LMHC, but Alternate route 2 and 3 for LCAT.>> This was very>> weird for me and the LCAT people couldn't really>> explain it.>>>> What suggestions do you or Dani have in terms of>> lobbying? Have you>> or anyone else spoken with people on the Licensing>> approval>> committee? How about Joan Wittig? She is the ADTR on>> the committee (>> I think).>>>> If you, or other folks think there are ways we can>> help, I would be>> glad to try.>>>> Pamela Faith Lerman>>>>>> >As the Licensure talk slows down, I imagine most>> of>> >the CAT field is in the process of receiving their>> >licenses throughout the year. I wanted to bring>> some>> >attention to the people who are sure they are not>> >receiving their licenses: the alternate route CATs.>> >>> >I am one of those people and this email also>> gathers>> >others in my same position. This also applies to>> Art,>> >Drama and Poetry Therapy as well.>> >>> >We are the people who had so much passion for this>> >field that being a bystander was not enough, so we>> >went beyond our master's degrees to gather>> additional>> >courses anywhere we found them. We are the ones>> that>> >didn't have the protective bubble of an university,>> >who paid for this career with our own money because>> >student loans wouldn't cover it, who don't have an>> >university reunion to go to in conferences, who>> >struggled to find their own internships and>> contacts>> >and who traveled to become a part of this field.>> >>> >But if you are in NY and have practiced for less>> than>> >7 years, you will NOT get licensed. For most of us,>> a>> >change in career is not an option.>> >>> >So I ask, what is being done? Where are the>> >credentials committees that approved us, the>> lobbyists>> >for this license, the Alternate Route Centers that>> >taught us? Dani Fraenkel from Kinections can't do>> it>> >alone. Why have we not heard these voices? I don't>> >think we really understand that there are some>> >people's careers and homes at stake. And sitting>> back>> >and saying "those poor Alternate Route CATs wont>> get>> >it" or brushing us under the rug is not a way to>> show>> >support to professionals who have fought to be a>> part>> >of this field.>> >>> >I thank the people who have listened and gave their>> >time to our emails and applications. But going back>> >and getting a master's in CAT or a different field>> is>> >not an option for many. I invite anyone who has an>> >interest in this issue to come forth with options>> and>> >solutions. I know all of us worked really hard to>> get>> >those applications together, which was a>> nightmarish>> >process. But the work is not over. Let's not>> forget>> >there are some of our colleagues left behind.>> >>> >Inaction is not an option.>> >>> >Thania Acaron, MA DTR>> >>> >>> >>> >__________________________________________________>> >

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Joan, Thanks for the clarification. I knew that SED will recognize

CAT masters programs outside of NY but the way Hamilton explained

it to us it would be " alternate " only because it didn't come from a NYS

masters CAT program. It didn't make sense to me.

Elissa

> Elissa,

>  

> The SED absolutely will recognize CAT masters programs from outside of

> New York.  That will not be considered alternate route training. 

> Programs in New York can apply for licensure status, meaning graduates

> will not have to prove course content.  Applicants who graduate from

> schools outside of New York will have to prove course content, probably

> by submitting syllabi.

>  

> Joan

>

> Re: Response

>

> ,

>

> I think the problem here is that they will only approve of

> masters degrees in one of the CATS. The board therefore

> has limited licensing to only the CATS who come from

> CAT programs in NYC. The Board considers an " alternate

> route " CAT masters programs outside of NY.

>

> Elissa

>

>

>

>

> Thania and others:

> I emailed yesterday but the list rejected it; don't know why. So I hope

> this

> goes through. Please feel free to send it to the list if it does not get

> posted. If this is confusing, maybe Joan or someone else can help bring

> some

> clarity.

>

> I provide alternate route education and I believe that alternate route in

> dance/movement therapy can provide  high quality education and training

> for

> the profession. But alternate route training centers are private

> businesses.

> They are not accredited by the official organizations that accredit

> colleges

> and university programs. Therefore, they do not have to meet criteria set

> by

> these organizations or pay fees for accreditation. (Anyone who knows more

> about this, please feel free to share.) Licensure boards cannot venture

> into

> approving programs; they have no way of knowing whether a program is

> providing the appropriate education and training or not. Licensure boards

> are limited to creating criteria for approval of individual applications

> for

> licensure. In order to best serve the public, boards try to create broad

> criteria for the initial licensure window. After this window, everything

> can

> change. Usually, criteria become more narrow.

>

> I am familiar with licensure boards and I know that if you are asking the

> licensure board to approve degrees other than degrees in counseling,

> social

> work, psychology, or CATs (such as dance education, human development,

> recreation, or any other education degree), you are asking the licensure

> board to set a precedent that will create huge liability for every

> licensure

> board and national certification board in the health professions

> nationwide.

> It also will open the door to the professions for evey other person with

> a

> degree in that area. Obviously we cannot allow anyone with a masters in

> education to be licensed as a therapist. And if this happens, what next?

> Bachelor's degrees? Licensure boards cannot give blanket approval to any

> degrees that do not specifically educate and train for the profession that

> is being licensed. The board can review applications on a case by case

> basis. If you do not qualify for one of the routes provided for licensure,

> you can appeal your case.

>

> It is, in fact, quite arguable, that if you do not have a graduate degree

> in

> CAT, counseling or a related psychotherapy profession, you are not

> qualified

> to pursue private practice.

>

> We (the professions) knew when we began to pursue licensure that some

> people

> would not be able to be licensed. This does not prevent you from working

> in

> the majority of states. It does prevent you from forming your own private

> practice. In most states, you can work for someone else who is licensed.

>

> If the law in NY states that you must be licensed to work in any capacity

> (for an institution or as an employee for another licensed person), then

> you

> can base your appeal on your " right to work. " A state cannot pass a law

> that

> takes away the earning ability (means for survival) of a person who was

> already employed in that capacity when the law was passed. HOWEVER, if you

> were not already in private practice, the state can maintain that you do

> not

> need the license.

>

> Again, there are many people (many many people) who have had to return to

> grad school because of licensure bills. Most did it because they wanted to

> practice privately. Ask these questions: Does NY require you to have a

> license in order to work? If not, do you want to have a private practice?

> If

> yes, Does NY require you to have a license to practice privately? If yes,

> find out what this will involve before you are discouraged about

> licensure.

>

> Armeniox

>

>

>

> Re: Inaction is not an option

> >>

> >>

> >> Thania,

> >>

> >>     I wrote to  you and to the list  in April about

> >> receiving by LCAT

> >> and LMHC  as an alternate route ADTR.  Have you been

> >> rejected

> >> outright? As far as I know, you do not have to have

> >> practised in NY

> >> for 7 years, but have had to be in the field for at

> >> least 7 years.

> >>

> >>   I do think that something is off about their

> >> approval process for

> >> education. The LCAT licensing people do not seem to

> >> be recognizing

> >> the Masters level education of alternate route

> >> people, but the LMHC

> >> Educational approval committee did. I was approved

> >> on Alternate Route

> >> I for LMHC, but Alternate route 2 and 3 for LCAT.

> >> This was very

> >> weird for me and the LCAT people couldn't really

> >> explain it.

> >>

> >> What suggestions do you or Dani have in terms of

> >> lobbying?  Have you

> >> or anyone else spoken with people on the Licensing

> >> approval

> >> committee? How about Joan Wittig? She is the ADTR on

> >> the committee (

> >> I think).

> >>

> >> If you, or other folks think there are ways we can

> >> help, I would be

> >> glad to try.

> >>

> >> Pamela Faith Lerman

> >>

> >>

> >> >As the Licensure talk slows down,  I imagine most

> >> of

> >> >the CAT field is in the process of receiving their

> >> >licenses throughout the year. I wanted to bring

> >> some

> >> >attention to the people who are sure they are not

> >> >receiving their licenses: the alternate route CATs.

> >> >

> >> >I am one of those people and this email also

> >> gathers

> >> >others in my same position. This also applies to

> >> Art,

> >> >Drama and Poetry Therapy as well.

> >> >

> >> >We are the people who had so much passion for this

> >> >field that being a bystander was not enough, so we

> >> >went beyond our master's degrees to gather

> >> additional

> >> >courses anywhere we found them. We are the ones

> >> that

> >> >didn't have the protective bubble of an university,

> >> >who paid for this career with our own money because

> >> >student loans wouldn't cover it, who don't have an

> >> >university reunion to go to in conferences, who

> >> >struggled to find their own internships and

> >> contacts

> >> >and who traveled to become a part of this field.

> >> >

> >> >But if you are in NY and have practiced for less

> >> than

> >> >7 years, you will NOT get licensed. For most of us,

> >> a

> >> >change in career is not an option.

> >> >

> >> >So I ask, what is being done? Where are the

> >> >credentials committees that approved us, the

> >> lobbyists

> >> >for this license, the Alternate Route Centers that

> >> >taught us? Dani Fraenkel from Kinections can't do

> >> it

> >> >alone. Why have we not heard these voices? I don't

> >> >think we really understand that there are some

> >> >people's careers and homes at stake.  And sitting

> >> back

> >> >and saying " those poor Alternate Route CATs wont

> >> get

> >> >it "   or brushing us under the rug is not a way to

> >> show

> >> >support to professionals  who have fought to be a

> >> part

> >> >of this field.

> >> >

> >> >I thank the people who have listened and gave their

> >> >time to our emails and applications. But going back

> >> >and getting a master's in CAT or a different field

> >> is

> >> >not an option for many.  I invite anyone who has an

> >> >interest in this issue to come forth with options

> >> and

> >> >solutions. I know all of us worked really hard to

> >> get

> >> >those applications together, which was a

> >> nightmarish

> >> >process.  But the work is not over. Let's not

> >> forget

> >> >there are some of our colleagues left behind.

> >> >

> >> >Inaction is not an option.

> >> >

> >> >Thania Acaron, MA DTR

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >__________________________________________________

> >> >

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Joan, do you know how we can find out about pursuing

alternate route training such as psychoanalytic institutions?

SED, as far as I understand it, will approve degrees from

accredited programs, but it seems to me that they will approve

an masters from an allied mental health field -- the problem

seems to be that they wouldn't approve it if one were applying

for an LCAT with dmt alternate route training. For an LCAT

they want a masters from a CAT program -- at least that is

how I understood it when Hamilton explained it to Dani and

I. Dani, do you have a different interpretation?

Elissa

> is correct.  SED claims they can approve degrees from accredited

> programs, because they regulate them and know their course content.  They

> feel they have no way to determine whether alternate sources are actually

> teaching what the state requires.  Psychoanalytic institutes are not

> degree granting institutions, but are still regulated by the state.  

> Perhaps this is an avenue to pursue, whereby institutions such as

> Kinections, or even schools that offer alternate route training, such as

> Pratt, can somehow be looked at like psychoanalytic institutes.  Just a

> possible suggestion.

>  

> Joan

>

> Re: Response

>

> Licensing boards generally approve degrees in specified disciplines from

> accredited colleges or universities. It does not matter what state the

> program is in. (It does matter if the program is outside the US.) They

> generally do not approve degrees in unrelated disciplines or from

> programs that are not provided by accredited colleges or universities.

> Armeniox

>

> Re: Inaction is not an option

> >>

> >>

> >> Thania,

> >>

> >>     I wrote to  you and to the list  in April about

> >> receiving by LCAT

> >> and LMHC  as an alternate route ADTR.  Have you been

> >> rejected

> >> outright? As far as I know, you do not have to have

> >> practised in NY

> >> for 7 years, but have had to be in the field for at

> >> least 7 years.

> >>

> >>   I do think that something is off about their

> >> approval process for

> >> education. The LCAT licensing people do not seem to

> >> be recognizing

> >> the Masters level education of alternate route

> >> people, but the LMHC

> >> Educational approval committee did. I was approved

> >> on Alternate Route

> >> I for LMHC, but Alternate route 2 and 3 for LCAT.

> >> This was very

> >> weird for me and the LCAT people couldn't really

> >> explain it.

> >>

> >> What suggestions do you or Dani have in terms of

> >> lobbying?  Have you

> >> or anyone else spoken with people on the Licensing

> >> approval

> >> committee? How about Joan Wittig? She is the ADTR on

> >> the committee (

> >> I think).

> >>

> >> If you, or other folks think there are ways we can

> >> help, I would be

> >> glad to try.

> >>

> >> Pamela Faith Lerman

> >>

> >>

> >> >As the Licensure talk slows down,  I imagine most

> >> of

> >> >the CAT field is in the process of receiving their

> >> >licenses throughout the year. I wanted to bring

> >> some

> >> >attention to the people who are sure they are not

> >> >receiving their licenses: the alternate route CATs.

> >> >

> >> >I am one of those people and this email also

> >> gathers

> >> >others in my same position. This also applies to

> >> Art,

> >> >Drama and Poetry Therapy as well.

> >> >

> >> >We are the people who had so much passion for this

> >> >field that being a bystander was not enough, so we

> >> >went beyond our master's degrees to gather

> >> additional

> >> >courses anywhere we found them. We are the ones

> >> that

> >> >didn't have the protective bubble of an university,

> >> >who paid for this career with our own money because

> >> >student loans wouldn't cover it, who don't have an

> >> >university reunion to go to in conferences, who

> >> >struggled to find their own internships and

> >> contacts

> >> >and who traveled to become a part of this field.

> >> >

> >> >But if you are in NY and have practiced for less

> >> than

> >> >7 years, you will NOT get licensed. For most of us,

> >> a

> >> >change in career is not an option.

> >> >

> >> >So I ask, what is being done? Where are the

> >> >credentials committees that approved us, the

> >> lobbyists

> >> >for this license, the Alternate Route Centers that

> >> >taught us? Dani Fraenkel from Kinections can't do

> >> it

> >> >alone. Why have we not heard these voices? I don't

> >> >think we really understand that there are some

> >> >people's careers and homes at stake.  And sitting

> >> back

> >> >and saying " those poor Alternate Route CATs wont

> >> get

> >> >it "   or brushing us under the rug is not a way to

> >> show

> >> >support to professionals  who have fought to be a

> >> part

> >> >of this field.

> >> >

> >> >I thank the people who have listened and gave their

> >> >time to our emails and applications. But going back

> >> >and getting a master's in CAT or a different field

> >> is

> >> >not an option for many.  I invite anyone who has an

> >> >interest in this issue to come forth with options

> >> and

> >> >solutions. I know all of us worked really hard to

> >> get

> >> >those applications together, which was a

> >> nightmarish

> >> >process.  But the work is not over. Let's not

> >> forget

> >> >there are some of our colleagues left behind.

> >> >

> >> >Inaction is not an option.

> >> >

> >> >Thania Acaron, MA DTR

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >__________________________________________________

> >> >

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This conversation is of great interest to those of us who have psychodrama training programs. As it is right now, because there are no master degrees in psychodrama, psychodramatists with MSWs or masters in counseling will not be able to be LCATs, beyond those of us who have been grandfathered. There was a woman from the SED at one of the meetings in Albany who knew a lot about the psychoanalytic institutes getting chartered or registered....Joan, do you remember who she was? She might be a resource for us.

Walters

Re: Inaction is not an option>>>>>> Thania,>>>> I wrote to you and to the list in April about>> receiving by LCAT>> and LMHC as an alternate route ADTR. Have you been>> rejected>> outright? As far as I know, you do not have to have>> practised in NY>> for 7 years, but have had to be in the field for at>> least 7 years.>>>> I do think that something is off about their>> approval process for>> education. The LCAT licensing people do not seem to>> be recognizing>> the Masters level education of alternate route>> people, but the LMHC>> Educational approval committee did. I was approved>> on Alternate Route>> I for LMHC, but Alternate route 2 and 3 for LCAT.>> This was very>> weird for me and the LCAT people couldn't really>> explain it.>>>> What suggestions do you or Dani have in terms of>> lobbying? Have you>> or anyone else spoken with people on the Licensing>> approval>> committee? How about Joan Wittig? She is the ADTR on>> the committee (>> I think).>>>> If you, or other folks think there are ways we can>> help, I would be>> glad to try.>>>> Pamela Faith Lerman>>>>>> >As the Licensure talk slows down, I imagine most>> of>> >the CAT field is in the process of receiving their>> >licenses throughout the year. I wanted to bring>> some>> >attention to the people who are sure they are not>> >receiving their licenses: the alternate route CATs.>> >>> >I am one of those people and this email also>> gathers>> >others in my same position. This also applies to>> Art,>> >Drama and Poetry Therapy as well.>> >>> >We are the people who had so much passion for this>> >field that being a bystander was not enough, so we>> >went beyond our master's degrees to gather>> additional>> >courses anywhere we found them. We are the ones>> that>> >didn't have the protective bubble of an university,>> >who paid for this career with our own money because>> >student loans wouldn't cover it, who don't have an>> >university reunion to go to in conferences, who>> >struggled to find their own internships and>> contacts>> >and who traveled to become a part of this field.>> >>> >But if you are in NY and have practiced for less>> than>> >7 years, you will NOT get licensed. For most of us,>> a>> >change in career is not an option.>> >>> >So I ask, what is being done? Where are the>> >credentials committees that approved us, the>> lobbyists>> >for this license, the Alternate Route Centers that>> >taught us? Dani Fraenkel from Kinections can't do>> it>> >alone. Why have we not heard these voices? I don't>> >think we really understand that there are some>> >people's careers and homes at stake. And sitting>> back>> >and saying "those poor Alternate Route CATs wont>> get>> >it" or brushing us under the rug is not a way to>> show>> >support to professionals who have fought to be a>> part>> >of this field.>> >>> >I thank the people who have listened and gave their>> >time to our emails and applications. But going back>> >and getting a master's in CAT or a different field>> is>> >not an option for many. I invite anyone who has an>> >interest in this issue to come forth with options>> and>> >solutions. I know all of us worked really hard to>> get>> >those applications together, which was a>> nightmarish>> >process. But the work is not over. Let's not>> forget>> >there are some of our colleagues left behind.>> >>> >Inaction is not an option.>> >>> >Thania Acaron, MA DTR>> >>> >>> >>> >__________________________________________________>> >

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That's what I understood.

Dani

Elissa White wrote:

Joan, do you know how we can find out about pursuing

alternate route training such as psychoanalytic institutions?

SED, as far as I understand it, will approve degrees from

accredited programs, but it seems to me that they will approve

an masters from an allied mental health field -- the problem

seems to be that they wouldn't approve it if one were applying

for an LCAT with dmt alternate route training. For an LCAT

they want a masters from a CAT program -- at least that is

how I understood it when Hamilton explained it to Dani and

I. Dani, do you have a different interpretation?

Elissa

is correct. SED claims they can approve degrees from accredited

programs, because they regulate them and know their course content.

They feel they have no way to determine whether alternate sources are

actually teaching what the state requires. Psychoanalytic institutes

are not degree granting institutions, but are still regulated by the

state. Perhaps this is an avenue to pursue, whereby institutions

such as Kinections, or even schools that offer alternate route

training, such as Pratt, can somehow be looked at like psychoanalytic

institutes. Just a possible suggestion.

Joan

Re: Response

Licensing boards generally approve

degrees in specified disciplines from accredited colleges or

universities. It does not matter what state the program is in. (It

does matter if the program is outside the US.) They generally do not

approve degrees in unrelated disciplines or from programs that are not

provided by accredited colleges or universities.

Armeniox

Re: Inaction is not an option

>>

>>

>> Thania,

>>

>> I wrote to you and to the list in April about

>> receiving by LCAT

>> and LMHC as an alternate route ADTR. Have you been

>> rejected

>> outright? As far as I know, you do not have to have

>> practised in NY

>> for 7 years, but have had to be in the field for at

>> least 7 years.

>>

>> I do think that something is off about their

>> approval process for

>> education. The LCAT licensing people do not seem to

>> be recognizing

>> the Masters level education of alternate route

>> people, but the LMHC

>> Educational approval committee did. I was approved

>> on Alternate Route

>> I for LMHC, but Alternate route 2 and 3 for LCAT.

>> This was very

>> weird for me and the LCAT people couldn't really

>> explain it.

>>

>> What suggestions do you or Dani have in terms of

>> lobbying? Have you

>> or anyone else spoken with people on the Licensing

>> approval

>> committee? How about Joan Wittig? She is the ADTR on

>> the committee (

>> I think).

>>

>> If you, or other folks think there are ways we can

>> help, I would be

>> glad to try.

>>

>> Pamela Faith Lerman

>>

>>

>> >As the Licensure talk slows down, I imagine most

>> of

>> >the CAT field is in the process of receiving their

>> >licenses throughout the year. I wanted to bring

>> some

>> >attention to the people who are sure they are not

>> >receiving their licenses: the alternate route CATs.

>> >

>> >I am one of those people and this email also

>> gathers

>> >others in my same position. This also applies to

>> Art,

>> >Drama and Poetry Therapy as well.

>> >

>> >We are the people who had so much passion for this

>> >field that being a bystander was not enough, so we

>> >went beyond our master's degrees to gather

>> additional

>> >courses anywhere we found them. We are the ones

>> that

>> >didn't have the protective bubble of an university,

>> >who paid for this career with our own money because

>> >student loans wouldn't cover it, who don't have an

>> >university reunion to go to in conferences, who

>> >struggled to find their own internships and

>> contacts

>> >and who traveled to become a part of this field.

>> >

>> >But if you are in NY and have practiced for less

>> than

>> >7 years, you will NOT get licensed. For most of us,

>> a

>> >change in career is not an option.

>> >

>> >So I ask, what is being done? Where are the

>> >credentials committees that approved us, the

>> lobbyists

>> >for this license, the Alternate Route Centers that

>> >taught us? Dani Fraenkel from Kinections can't do

>> it

>> >alone. Why have we not heard these voices? I don't

>> >think we really understand that there are some

>> >people's careers and homes at stake. And sitting

>> back

>> >and saying "those poor Alternate Route CATs wont

>> get

>> >it" or brushing us under the rug is not a way to

>> show

>> >support to professionals who have fought to be a

>> part

>> >of this field.

>> >

>> >I thank the people who have listened and gave their

>> >time to our emails and applications. But going back

>> >and getting a master's in CAT or a different field

>> is

>> >not an option for many. I invite anyone who has an

>> >interest in this issue to come forth with options

>> and

>> >solutions. I know all of us worked really hard to

>> get

>> >those applications together, which was a

>> nightmarish

>> >process. But the work is not over. Let's not

>> forget

>> >there are some of our colleagues left behind.

>> >

>> >Inaction is not an option.

>> >

>> >Thania Acaron, MA DTR

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >__________________________________________________

>> >

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