oxygen...food...money.

[Guest guest]

ok daneeka, i wont really respond to your question, you seem to just want to talk. but i will say this. in baseball, you can hit a home run, or a base hit. you can also get hit by the ball pitched and get hurt, but you step up to the plate because your team mates expect you too, it is considered normal. and you may have the best intentions at the plate to hit the ball. but you may find that despite your best intentions...the REALITY for you is, that you dont have the eye-hand co-ordination to hit the ball at all. you get hit by the pitch and fall. 36 m diagnosed ASDaneka Wheeler wrote: Hi ,Yes. I was asking a question, not making a statement, but since writing that, something happened here that made me think I understood better.I have been upset lately because I am fighting quite a bit with my 15-year old daughter. At the moment, she wants to go on a four-day ski trip, and unless I can verify the group she is going with are trustworthy, I won't let her go. She's calling me the "anti-fun" mother. I was at home alone thinking about what a tough time she and I are having lately, and I was weepy and wondering whether I was handling things badly. My husband (AS) came home, and I was very glad because I could have used to talk to him right then. But he had come home for lunch - think freight train - and walked right past me, saw that I was crying, nodded,

and continued to the kitchen to get lunch.So, here's what I make of it. I know that he's not opposed to intimacy - I'm not talking about sexual intimacy, just intimacy. He's pleased that I want to be close to him, physically and emotionally. On some level, he craves intimacy as much as I do. But he can't turn his receptors on and off at will. Later, if I tell him that it made me very sad that he didn't come to me and ask what's wrong, he'll feel bad about it, but at the time, he is driven to get his lunch.Is that what you mean when you said "on my terms?"To me, this is counter-intuitive. A loving relationship is by definition intimate and reciprocal. That's the essence of a marriage. When he hits a bad patch, I'm there for him. If he hurts, I hurt. If I hit a bad patch, I feel that he should be there for me. In any relationship I've had in the past, that much was understood. I would have

thought it was a universal truth, but obviously that's not true. So, my question was why would someone enter into a marriage, why would marriage appeal to someone if they're not willing to have demands placed on them, if they're not willing to give up certain progatives? at a minimum accept the obligation for emotional support? When a husband says "I do" to the "love, honor, cherish" question, aren't they accepting a trade-off with their own preferences for solitude? not completely giving up solitude, of course, but opening up to some flexibility. I sometimes feel that he would have been much happier if he had never married. If I say this to him, he's adamant that I'm wrong. I don't get it.That's the baseball analogy. The plate is the spot where the batter steps to hit the ball. A home run is when the batter hits the ball out of the park. Sorry, this is long, and I'm rambling, so I'll stop.Thanks

,Danekadavid bailey <daysbaysyahoo (DOT) co.uk> wrote: Daneeka said: Daneka Wheeler <danekaw> wrote: Anita points out something not often mentioned on this list. Many of the NT members here have had NT boyfriends/girlfriends. These relationships in high school or in college or in life have set expectations of intimacy and partnership.So, to say - don't need me, don't get close - crosses the grain and feels alien to us. Given my own point of reference as to male/female relationships, I wonder, "why step up to the plate, if you don't want to hit a home run?"Daneka, NT me here: daneeka i would like to answer your response as you are one of the list members i have enjoyed connecting with in the past but i am unsure if you want me to respond, or that you are making a statement , not a question . also can you explain the analogy about baseball? 36 m diagnosed AS. . Yahoo! Answers

- Get better answers from someone who knows. Try it now. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

Sent from Yahoo! - the World's favourite mail.

[Guest guest]

My ex-girlfriend who is NT was attracted to me because of the many

things you have said. So that does go to show that people with AS

can be quite interesting

, AS

>

> > Anita points out something not often mentioned on this list.

Many

> > of the NT members here have had NT boyfriends/girlfriends.

These

> > relationships in high school or in college or in life have set

> > expectations of intimacy and partnership.

> > So, to say - don't need me, don't get close - crosses the

grain

> > and feels alien to us. Given my own point of reference as to

male/

> > female relationships, I wonder, " why step up to the plate, if

you

> > don't want to hit a home run? "

> > Daneka, NT

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo!

Mail.

> > See how.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I understand and comprehend why NT'ers would want that all the time and

such. Perhaps there is hope for people who have Asperger's to be in

relationship with NT'ers and the like.

>

> anita, for us, I would find it a stretch to have this cozy armpit

> thing going on ,

> but you have aptly illustrated the NT desires that we have ... all

> the time, in every situation,

> no matter what. we are like puppies eager for a pet, kids hungry

for

> ice cream. Good grief! JKZ

>

[Guest guest]

My ex-girlfriend who is NT was attracted to me because of the many things you have said. So that does go to show that people with AS can be quite interesting , AS

:

I think NS people married AS adults for all the same reasons we marry those with NS or anyone else. It is different for everyone. I think many of us married for the right reasons and had no idea about AS back than. Neither side did. The rule of thumb has been a child being dx. with AS in the family and than awareness, education and one starts looking at the rest of their family and pretty soon it has become a family affair due to genetics and possible environmental triggers, hence our current research which is exploring a zillion different paths and areas trying to get a handle on autism which as many point out on this list is subjective to the person making the dx. at this time.

The process seems to be the same from both sides, i.e. a lot of frustration, anger, betrayal, etc.. Old timers on ASPIRES will tell you this has been a journey for all of us. We have all felt and lived all the emotions or non-emotions and it has been a rocky course for many of us. Back in the old days there was little Internet support. Now a days folks have a wide variety of e-lists, websites, articles, research at their disposal. Information today is outdated almost before it hits the Internet, replaced by new hypothesis and research. Families have more information and support to tap into. My generation was just creating this avenue of support years ago. Hmmmm? A website? A blog? Who knew?

Our kids have it better as they are growing up knowing they have AS and can make better choices that many in our generation did that are just discovering their AS. I think our generation feels more pain as we were so clueless and only had groups like ours to sort it out and find support from others that really "get it."

The BEST thing? Our generation, through groups like ASPIRES has paved the way for others to follow. In this forum you have the NS and AS perspective, both sides asking questions. Who can ask for anything more?

Many NS/AS folks have graced our board, all leaving a mark. Their mark in turn has left a mark on many of us with insight, pain, humor but always for awareness, understanding and acceptance. In that respect, we really are not that different. Our brains may be wired differently and are needs may be different, but underneath all that, we really aren't that different.

If it had not been for groups like ASPIRES, I might of ended up a bitter divorcee. Larry and I have a better relationship now as we have learned to respect our different boundaries. I owe that to awareness and support. The marriage had to end, but our lives did not stop, they moved FF. I owe that to ASPIRES. Thank You. In our case, we are both better off, but this was just us. There are many successful relationships on and off this list. They do it like they breath air so our community really has many models to look at.....

What I have learned in life and who knew I would go to work for a tech company???? Is NOT to analyze the AS motive and just live in the moment. I told a co-worker the other day, "you know a lot of facts?" She laughed and said, "yeah, but it is useless information." I said, "not to YOU and others. Many find this interesting." I enjoy a lot of her facts when she says, "did U know........" Knowing her special interest is like Larry's, enables me to share facts that I think she might find interesting. I brought a book that is about Hollywood trivia that has a built in computer chip where it brings you to a fact and than you choose and answer and it tells you if you are right or wrong and brings you to another question. She said, "this is perfect for me." "How did you know?" "I just knew." She just loves numbers and facts in all areas of life. She has a lot of special interest that she is an expert on. She just amazes me.

Just my humble opinion and 2 cents.........

[Guest guest]

david, another view of the 'stepping up to the plate'.. and I am a veteran amatuer baseball player since I could lift a bat.  EVERY TIME I STEPPED UP TO THE PLATE, I WANTED TO HIT A HOME RUN.  I VISUALIZED THE GLORY OF HITTING ONE.  I TRIED MY BEST EVERY SINGLE TIME.  THERE WERE NO OTHER THOUGHTS, MY EYE WAS ON THE PRIZE.  I was on the team becasue I wanted to be, not because someone expected me to be.  So the concept of 'stepping up to the plate ' means that one 'steps up' (gets married) by making a  committment to doing the very best they can all the time in the realtionship...'hitting that home run" . In the case of matrimony, the people involved are committed to doing the very best they can to share a life together which for most people means that they expect to  share some level of emotional communication and intimacy. and guess what... I never hit a home run, but I never stopped trying and it was a lot of fun.  People who are afraid of being hit by the ball don't play, they may sit in the stands and watch and of course they never even come close to a hit much less a home run.  jkz ok daneeka, i wont really respond to your question, you seem to just want to talk.but i will say this. in baseball, you can hit a home run, or a base hit.you can also get hit by the ball pitched and get hurt, but you step up to the plate becauseyour team mates expect you too, it is considered normal. and you may have the best intentions at the plate to hit the ball. but you may find that despite your best intentions...the REALITY for you is, that you dont have the eye-hand co-ordination to hit the ball at all.you get hit by the pitch and fall.  36 m diagnosed ASDaneka Wheeler <danekaw> wrote:Hi ,Yes.  I was asking a question, not making a statement, but since writing that, something happened here that made me think I understood better.I have been upset lately because I am fighting quite a bit with my 15-year old daughter.  At the moment, she wants to go on a four-day ski trip, and unless I can verify the group she is going with are trustworthy, I won't let her go.  She's calling me the "anti-fun" mother. I was at home alone thinking about what a tough time she and I are having lately, and I was weepy and wondering whether I was handling things badly.  My husband (AS) came home, and I was very glad because I could have used to talk to him right then.  But he had come home for lunch - think freight train - and walked right past me, saw that I was crying, nodded, and continued to the kitchen to get lunch.So, here's what I make of it.  I know that he's not opposed to intimacy - I'm not talking about sexual intimacy, just intimacy.  He's pleased that I want to be close to him, physically and emotionally.  On some level, he craves intimacy as much as I do. But he can't turn his receptors on and off at will.  Later, if I tell him that it made me very sad that he didn't come to me and ask what's wrong, he'll feel bad about it, but at the time, he is driven to get his lunch.Is that what you mean when you said "on my terms?"To me, this is counter-intuitive.  A loving relationship is by definition intimate and reciprocal.  That's the essence of a marriage. When he hits a bad patch, I'm there for him.  If he hurts, I hurt.  If I hit a bad patch, I feel that he should be there for me.  In any relationship I've had in the past, that much was understood.  I would have thought it was a universal truth, but obviously that's not true.  So, my question was why would someone enter into a marriage, why would marriage appeal to someone if they're not willing to have demands placed on them, if they're not willing to give up certain progatives? at a minimum accept the obligation for emotional support?  When a husband says "I do" to the "love, honor, cherish" question, aren't they accepting a trade-off with their own preferences for solitude?  not completely giving up solitude, of course, but opening up to some flexibility.  I sometimes feel that he would have been much happier if he had never married.  If I say this to him, he's adamant that I'm wrong.   I don't get it.That's the baseball analogy.  The plate is the spot where the batter steps to hit the ball.  A home run is when the batter hits the ball out of the park.  Sorry, this is long, and I'm rambling, so I'll stop.Thanks ,Danekadavid bailey <daysbaysyahoo (DOT) co.uk> wrote:Daneeka said:Daneka Wheeler <danekaw> wrote:Anita points out something not often mentioned on this list.  Many of the NT members here have had NT boyfriends/girlfriends.  These relationships in high school or in college or in life have set expectations of intimacy and partnership.So, to say  - don't need me, don't get close -  crosses the grain and feels alien to us. Given my own point of reference as to male/female relationships, I wonder, "why step up to the plate, if you don't want to hit a home run?"Daneka, NT me here: daneeka i would like to answer your response as you are one of the list members i have enjoyed connecting with in the past but i am unsure if you want me to respond, or that you  are making a statement , not a question . also can you explain the analogy about baseball?  36 m diagnosed AS. . Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Try it now.Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.Sent from Yahoo! - the World's favourite mail.

[Guest guest]

Very interesting ... it's true. smart, funny productive as well,  but more is needed  to make a relationship last and grow .  AS make great interesting neighbors, but not who I look to for comfort when my heart is aching. jkzMy ex-girlfriend who is NT was attracted to me because of the many things you have said. So that does go to show that people with AS can be quite interesting , AS> > > Anita points out something not often mentioned on this list. Many > > of the NT members here have had NT boyfriends/girlfriends. These > > relationships in high school or in college or in life have set > > expectations of intimacy and partnership.> > So, to say - don't need me, don't get close - crosses the grain > > and feels alien to us. Given my own point of reference as to male/ > > female relationships, I wonder, "why step up to the plate, if you > > don't want to hit a home run?"> > Daneka, NT> >> >> >> >> > Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. > > See how.> >> >>

[Guest guest]

i appreciate your posts and wish you well.. and thank you for not blaming NTs for being "too emotional"  and "manipulative"   I feel that you have a very good chance to have a intimate realtionship with an NT in your future.  We all are what we are.  jkzI understand and comprehend why NT'ers would want that all the time and such. Perhaps there is hope for people who have Asperger's to be in relationship with NT'ers and the like.> > anita, for us, I would find it a stretch to have this cozy armpit > thing going on ,> but you have aptly illustrated the NT desires that we have ... all > the time, in every situation,> no matter what. we are like puppies eager for a pet, kids hungry for > ice cream. Good grief! JKZ>

[Guest guest]

,

I would like to echo Janet's sentiments about your posts. I was

quite put off as I read AS posts on this list this morning, with the

exception of your posts. You exhibit a comprehensive understanding

of where you are in the world. Suggesting even that you are not of

the mind to consider marriage for all the reasons you so perfectly

articulated.

Your leanings toward community service and an understanding of what

you can do comfortably or not was so refreshing, it allowed time for

the tears to dry on my face. The most noteworthy of what you said

was that you knew to not include a significant other in the mix. You

didn't say you wanted to be in a relationship but, " don't need me,

don't want me, don't expect anything from me. " You were brave enough

to say it might not be a good idea to be in a relationship at all

right now.

Dave, In my opinion, if an NT was to even stand a chance at being in

a relationship with AS, you would be the one who would show the most

promise. God bless your ability to understand and your determination

not to reject the things NT's find beautiful about the world and the

people in it.

You are an inspiration and SO what I needed this morning after

reading some of the things on the list.

Regards,

Anita, 55 NT (and hoping her husband can learn to speak as softly an

inclusively as you have)

> >

> > >

> > > anita, for us, I would find it a stretch to have this cozy

armpit

> > > thing going on ,

> > > but you have aptly illustrated the NT desires that we have ...

all

> > > the time, in every situation,

> > > no matter what. we are like puppies eager for a pet, kids hungry

> > for

> > > ice cream. Good grief! JKZ

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Anita..

Yes, I could do nothing and still be understood. More or less, that

wouldn't do me any good whatsoever. In the past, I wouldn't even

think of wanting to admit to having problems with expressing myself.

It's like this idea of " I'm right and everyone else doesn't know what

they're talking about and all. " I have set a few goals; more work on

goals will take place throughout December for the next five years.

Community service is something I am proud to be do, regardless of

what community I have lived. Community service gives me an

opportunity to socialize with others, and in having empathy/sympathy

for those less fortunate than me (even though I still struggle in a

few ways currently).

You mentioned, " I remember reading in that same publication/article

(now I'll have to try to locate it) that AS are typically self

focused and it is unusual for them to be selfless enough for

community service, especially the level at which you give. I'd like

your comments on that theory if you have any. Thanks "

** That's my understanding of individuals who have AS is that they

can be self-centered. While my most recent ex-girlfriend admires me

for being pro-active in dealing with things, she noticed that I was

selfish at times around her in that I wanted to talk about how I was

feeling and wouldn't ask how she was feeling. As I reflect on those

times, yes, I acknowledge that I should have asked her when I got

home how her day was - before unloading on her how my day was. I

have learned from that.

I think a major perception of people who are around those with AS is

to presume they are not selfless and the focus is on self. I can see

why that theory might seem true to a lot of people. One thing the

theory fails to see is that all people who have AS are different from

one another. For a theory to use a " cookie cutter " approach on any

set group is to assume that all people with AS are the same way -

given their basic tendencies. Thus, the theory might be true in the

sense that most people with AS might be that way. If I were to

queston that theory, I would ask (1) does it have validity and how

repicable it is. As a result of those, is there any type or sort of

bias that would influence a theory in a certain way. I won't into

the details with all of that. However, I would wonder by what means

the individuals/researchers used up with this theory. What sample

size was involved in coming up with the theory. If a small sample

size is used in deriving a theory, then I would question how valid

the theory about those with AS actually is. I would need to read the

actual research study, in which the researches developed their theory

of behavioral tendencies with those with AS to question and then

conclude how the subsequent research study(ies) and theory.

I don't know if this helps any or not, or if I have confused you that

much more LOL.

> > >

> > > ,

> > >

> > > I would like to echo Janet's sentiments about your posts. I

was

> > > quite put off as I read AS posts on this list this morning,

with

> > the

> > > exception of your posts. You exhibit a comprehensive

understanding

> > > of where you are in the world. Suggesting even that you are

not of

> > > the mind to consider marriage for all the reasons you so

perfectly

> > > articulated.

> > >

> > > Your leanings toward community service and an understanding of

what

> > > you can do comfortably or not was so refreshing, it allowed

time

> > for

> > > the tears to dry on my face. The most noteworthy of what you

said

> > > was that you knew to not include a significant other in the

mix.

> > You

> > > didn't say you wanted to be in a relationship but, " don't need

me,

> > > don't want me, don't expect anything from me. " You were brave

> > enough

> > > to say it might not be a good idea to be in a relationship at

all

> > > right now.

> >

> > >

> > > Regards,

> > > Anita, 55 NT (and hoping her husband can learn to speak as

softly

> > an

> > > inclusively as you have)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Tim Channon wrote:

> Janet Zimmerman wrote:

>

>>david, another view of the 'stepping up to the plate'.. and I am a

>>veteran amatuer baseball player since I could lift a bat.

>>

>>EVERY TIME I STEPPED UP TO THE PLATE, I WANTED TO HIT A HOME RUN. I

>

> Any chance of explain in English without any reference to baseball or

> other thing like that?

Every time I wrote a school exam, I wanted to get an A+ .

(Not just a mere B, or even A, but an over-the-top A.)

- Bill, 75, AS

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

tim... I thought I explained what I meant in the next part of the message???that's gone, but I will try again... (I was not the source of the baseball analogy, I just jumped in because I thought I could add some clarity.)I think the source was asking, in regards to getting married, why did you get married if you did not want to do what is generally expected of married people?  (it is expected by our culture that married people will make the commitment to accomodate each other's wishes.)  Stepping up to the plate = expecting to do what it takes to accomodate the other person... meeting them halfway.... compromisingHitting a home run =  successful marraige where both parties feel their needs are being met. I apologise if I can't make this clear.   My thought processes are rife with metaphors and analogies.  English teachers loved it.   I am making the effort to restrain myself from making one right now.   Is there an analogies anonymous org. for me?   whoops I creeep towards another....it's like a fever.   ;-)  Janet Zimmerman wrote:> david, another view of the 'stepping up to the plate'.. and I am a> veteran amatuer baseball player since I could lift a bat.> > EVERY TIME I STEPPED UP TO THE PLATE, I WANTED TO HIT A HOME RUN. IAny chance of explain in English without any reference to baseball orother thing like that?

[Guest guest]

Jennie,yup.My husband admits to not even thinking about what his vows meant. It was just something you were supposed to do. Grow up and get married. And he's not AS.I think Ron's earlier post on possible reasons why people with Aspergers marry includes this reasoning. "It's expected" without a full appreciation of what "it" involves or what is expected.Daneka Jennie Unknown wrote: Daneka said: >>So, my question was why would someone enter into a marriage, why

would marriage appeal to someone if they're not willing to have demands placed on them, if they're not willing to give up certain progatives? at a minimum accept the obligation for emotional support? When a husband says "I do" to the "love, honor, cherish" question, aren't they accepting a trade-off with their own preferences for solitude? not completely giving up solitude, of course, but opening up to some flexibility.<< Daneka, Personally I agree with you. When someone choose to marry they should have thought things through and made a decision to give up certain things in order to meet the others needs. I did this. My husband did not. Unfortunately what I see is that most people don't really put thought into what the marriage vows mean and most people don't really think a vow is a vow so why bother putting much thought into it? For me I don't give my word on whether I'll show up at a picnic unless I've thought it through but at least in this area of this country it's pretty common for people to just toss their words around without any thought behind. This is why sometimes businesses like photographers require a small deposit to make your appointment. Lots of people don't show up. This is why a restaurant I worked for years ago stopped accepting reservations all together because most people did not show up. Or would show up late. Unfortunately the concept of 'my word is my bond' is sadly lacking in todays society and that includes marriage vows. My husband admits to not even thinking about what his vows meant. It was just something you were supposed to do. Grow up and get married. And he's not AS. Jennie

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Guest guest]

Jennie said:>>My husband admits to not even thinking about what his vows meant. It was just something you were supposed to do. Grow up and get married. And he's not AS.<<Daneka said: >>I think Ron's earlier post on possible reasons why people with Aspergers marry includes this reasoning. "It's expected" without a full appreciation of what "it" involves or what is expected.<<

Daneka,

Yep I read Ron's post. My husband isn't AS though, I am.

Jennie