Re: Remember?

[Guest guest]

Sorry, I don't have a clue what you are talking

about. Today means nothing at all to me except

that it is Friday and that it is Pay Day.

Yesterday had more meaning to me. It was St.

Day and it was also the anniversery for

the Montreal Women's Massacre. THAT is a more

important day to remember than Dec. 7, 1941.

Tara Kimberley Torme

--- WD Loughman wrote:

> We do all remember? We USAnians, anyway?

>

> December 7, 1941 " … a date which will live

> in infamy. "

>

> - Bill, 75, AS; ...who remembers

>

> --

> WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California

> USA

> http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ...

A little history trivia for someone who isn't American. It was a

pretty significant day in American and World history :-)

From the Library of Congress:

" On December 7, 1941, Japanese planes attacked the United States Naval

Base at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii Territory killing more than 2,300

Americans. The U.S.S. Arizona was completely destroyed and the U.S.S.

Oklahoma capsized. The attack sank three other ships and damaged many

additional vessels. More than 180 aircraft were destroyed.

The following day President lin Roosevelt, addressing a joint

session of Congress, called December 7 " a date which will live in

infamy. " Declaring war against Japan, Congress ushered the United

States into World War II and forced a nation, already close to war, to

abandon isolationism. Within days, Japan's allies, Germany and Italy,

declared war on the United States, and the country began a rapid

transition to a war-time economy in building up armaments in support

of military campaigns in the Pacific, North Africa, and Europe. "

Regards,

Anita 55 NT

>

> > We do all remember? We USAnians, anyway?

> >

> > December 7, 1941 " … a date which will live

> > in infamy. "

> >

> > - Bill, 75, AS; ...who remembers

> >

> > --

> > WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California

> > USA

> > http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

This brings up a great point. We live in a global society, which

composes more than just any one country. Perhaps, something that was

of great significance in one country may affect people more who live

there than something that happened in another country. I understand

the importance of what happened on December 7, 1941 in the United

States. Let us all remember that other things happened in the world

on that day (maybe in a different year) as well. Both Tara and Bill

have valid points.

I see this similarly to having Asperger's (as weird as it may seem to

people reading this). But please follow, as I share from from of an

entry from my journal this morning.

" I noticed that today is the 66th anniversary of Pearl Harbor, which

started the USA's involvement in World War II. Until that time, the

U.S. was very isolationist, and the rest of the world felt that

perception of the U.S. The U.S. attempted at all possible costs to

avoid being involved, until the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor.

" In many respects, having AS is like the bombing of Pearl Harbor (or

any other tragedy with similar significance in another country). At

first people might ask, " What could those two things have in

common? " However, through much closer reflection, one can see how

Pearl Harbor (or a tragedy of similar significance) and Asperger's

relate. When Pearl Harbor and other grave tragedies (me including

Montreal Women's Massacre and many others in the post) occured,

people's lives were changed forever. People picked up what they

could of their lives, recovered, adjusted, and moved forward in their

lives. Much the same way with any tragedy, I picked up the pieces

from my life of discovering Asperger's, am recovering and adjusting,

and am moving forward in my life as well. "

The moral to the story? Actually, there's a couple of things.

First, let us all remember that we all live in different countries

and in different continents around the planet. What may matter to

one person may not matter to another. We are composed of a global

society, in which grave and tragic events that have affected a

municipality, state or province, country, and ultimately, the world.

Yes, what happened in Pearl Harbor and Montreal were tragic. But,

people were able to pick up those broken pieces, adjusted and

recovered, and moved forward in life. Second, let us all respect

each other, regardless of what country or continent we are from in

this world. I understand the importance of Pearl Harbor, although I

was born a generation after it started. My parents remember Pearl

Harbor very well. Yet, when I hear of things like the Montreal

Women's Massacre, what has taken place in Darfur and the Sudan, and

much more, I know that the world does not compose solely of one

country but well over 200 countries - with each country having its

own problems and challenges to face.

I share this story with everyone in here, because all people should

be valued regardless of what country or continent they live. It's

not in my right as a citizen of the United States to say that Pearl

Harbor was any more or less significant than the Montreal Women's

Massacre, Darfur, or anything else that happened in the history of

mankind. Much the same, if I lived outside the United States, it

would not be in my right as a citizen of that country to say that the

events in that country were any more or less significant than what

happened in Pearl Harbor or any other tragedy.

I've said more than my two cents on this. I hope that everyone in

here will take a little bit of time to reflect that we live in a

global society, composed of many countries with a history behind each

of them (and that this world is not composed of any one country).

Just as Pearl Harbor transformed the United States, the Montreal

Women's Massacre transformed Canada and so on and so on.

I am just asking that we all respect one another, even if what took

place in one country means more to one person than the events of

another (regardless of where you live, United States, Canada, or

Anarctica for that matter). I am glad that Tara and Bill have shared

what means most to both of them. But let us all remember that that

the history of civilization has occured because of events that

happened not just in one country, but all around the world.

Thanks,

>

> > We do all remember? We USAnians, anyway?

> >

> > December 7, 1941 " … a date which will live

> > in infamy. "

> >

> > - Bill, 75, AS; ...who remembers

> >

> > --

> > WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California

> > USA

> > http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Bill,

Yes, I remember.... even though I wasn't born yet.

Jennie

[Guest guest]

Jennie Unknown wrote:

> Bill,

>

> Yes, I remember.... even though I wasn't born yet.

>

> Jennie

Good for you! That event was far more important than it seems from a

60-odd years later vantage point.

It led to the UN and all major, major events/issues following on that.

It lead to the creation of Israel, and all ... following that.

....and much more. You can make your own list.

Pearl Harbor itself, as a named historical even, almost is trivial. The

events which followed, which depended on that one event, are NOT trivial

at all. They've reshaped the world in almost every possible way.

I was probing, wondering how many would see that, ...would realize THAT.

had it right enough. Everything's connected; some things more

than others.

- Bill, 75, AS

--

WD " Bill " Loughman - Berkeley, California USA

http://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

Yes, you are right. Pearl Harbor was a pivitol moment in World History, not just USA history. The US was very isolationistic and tried to stay out of world events. Pearl Harbor precipitated the entrance to WW2. So much of today's political policy (in the UN and many countries) is shaped by this one event because of what followed. In my opinion the war that is happening right now has been shaped by the policies coming out of WW2.

One thing about the event its self that I found particularly horrifying though is that for many days after the bombing, rescue crews could hear tapping from men who were trapped in the sunken ships.

So I remember Pearl Harbor both as a tragic national event and as a pivitol world event.

Jennie

[Guest guest]

I remember learning about it in school, and from my parents-- , AS, not quite that old- Enjoying being literal : ~ )WD Loughman wrote: We do all remember? We USAnians, anyway?December 7, 1941 "… a date which will live in infamy."- Bill, 75, AS; ...who remembers-- WD "Bill" Loughman - Berkeley, California USAhttp://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

for me it led to eventually unleashing the terror of the A-bomb on innocent people, TWICE  'to end the war'.  Janet Zee   WAR - it's not about who is right, it's about who is left. Jennie Unknown wrote:> Bill,> > Yes, I remember.... even though I wasn't born yet.> > JennieGood for you! That event was far more important than it seems from a 60-odd years later vantage point.It led to the UN and all major, major events/issues following on that.It lead to the creation of Israel, and all ... following that....and much more. You can make your own list.Pearl Harbor itself, as a named historical even, almost is trivial. The events which followed, which depended on that one event, are NOT trivial at all. They've reshaped the world in almost every possible way.I was probing, wondering how many would see that, ...would realize THAT. had it right enough. Everything's connected; some things more than others.- Bill, 75, AS-- WD "Bill" Loughman - Berkeley, California USAhttp://home.earthlink.net/~wdloughman/wdl.htm

[Guest guest]

Janet Zimmerman wrote: for me it led to eventually unleashing the terror of the A-bomb on innocent people, TWICE 'to end the war'. Janet Zee WAR - it's not about who is right, it's about who is left. me here: my take is this: during the war european powers were fighting against the germans. this left a loss of european power in south east asia...vietnam was a french controlled area, phillipines were dependant upon spain, autralia and

new zealand were linked closely to britain, indonesia and new guinea linked to holland. the japanese saw the control of these regions fading due to the war in europe and decided there was " good pickings" but the american navy based in hawaii stood between them and their plans, they chose to remove this obstacle to their plans by attacking pearl harbour. unprovoked. this annoyed the americans. the americans ended the war in the pacific and helped to do same in europe. yes, they nuked them...twice. but since the war america has helped to rebuild germany and japan to make both these countries in the economic top ten producing nations of the world. someone mentioned an analogy to AS. sometimes when someone has a different philosophy or view on a topic, you need to break them down and build them up again. 36 m diagnosed AS Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe .

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[Guest guest]

Thank you . This is very well put. Jennie

said:

me here:

my take is this:

during the war european powers were fighting against the germans.

this left a loss of european power in south east asia...vietnam was a french controlled area, phillipines were dependant upon spain, autralia and new zealand were linked closely to britain, indonesia and new guinea linked to holland. the japanese saw the control of these regions fading due to the war in europe and decided there was " good pickings" but the american navy based in hawaii stood between them and their plans, they chose to remove this obstacle to their plans by attacking pearl harbour. unprovoked.

this annoyed the americans.

the americans ended the war in the pacific and helped to do same in europe.

yes, they nuked them...twice.

but since the war america has helped to rebuild germany and japan to make both these countries in the economic top ten producing nations of the world.

someone mentioned an analogy to AS.

sometimes when someone has a different philosophy or view on a topic, you need to break them down and build them up again.

36 m diagnosed AS

[Guest guest]

>>for me it led to eventually unleashing the terror of the A-bomb on innocent people, TWICE 'to end the war'. Janet Zee WAR - it's not about who is right, it's about who is left.<<

I think that's a bit simplistic. War is often about who was attacked and who defended themselves. Interesting piece of trivia? The man who suggested the US build an atom bomb, explained it was possible, was one of the minds behind it was a German who had been shoved out by the Nazi's. Ironic. By the name of Einstein! War is not nice but sometimes is necessary for the greater good.

Jennie- wondering what one should do with folks who want to take over the world.

[Guest guest]

Just a few more thoughts on this... I don't think its all that productive to talk about politics here BUT, remember that the attack on Pearl Harbor was an attack on a military installation (naval base, soldiers, ships, planes etc.)  Hiroshima and Nagasaki were mega-cities inhabited by civilians; women, children and old people.   there is a difference. jkz   And Einstein was not pleased. >>for me it led to eventually unleashing the terror of the A-bomb on innocent people, TWICE  'to end the war'.  Janet Zee   WAR - it's not about who is right, it's about who is left.<<I think that's a bit simplistic. War is often about who was attacked and who defended themselves. Interesting piece of trivia? The man who suggested the US build an atom bomb, explained it was possible, was one of the minds behind it was a German who had been shoved out by the Nazi's. Ironic. By the name of Einstein! War is not nice but sometimes is necessary for the greater good.  Jennie- wondering what one should do with folks who want to take over the world.

[Guest guest]

PLEASE!Yes, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were cities with civilians. They were also naval harbors! Hiroshima was the Naval command center for that region.The main reason was to spare the US over ONE MILLION troops killed, and more wounded IF we had to invade Japan's home islands!The military was training men, women, seniors and SCHOOL CHILDREN to fight and resist the American invaders!!!!! There were NO innocents in the strict sense of the word!!It was a shame that about 200,000 Japanese died (troops included), but that was better than ONE MILLION Casualties after all the other killed and wounded on Iwo Jima, Tarawa, Guam etc!Terry Klasek, Military HistorianSaint Louis,MissouriJanet Zimmerman wrote: Just a few more thoughts on this... I don't think its all that productive to talk about politics here BUT, remember that the attack on Pearl Harbor was an attack on a military installation (naval base, soldiers, ships, planes etc.) Hiroshima and Nagasaki were mega-cities inhabited by civilians; women, children and old people. there is a difference. jkz And Einstein was not pleased. >>for me it led to eventually unleashing the terror of the A-bomb on innocent people, TWICE 'to end the war'. Janet Zee WAR - it's not about who is right, it's about who is left.<<I think that's a bit simplistic. War is often about who was attacked and who defended themselves. Interesting piece of trivia? The man who suggested the US build an atom bomb, explained it was possible, was one of the minds behind it was a German who had been shoved out by the Nazi's. Ironic. By the name of Einstein! War is not nice but sometimes is necessary for

the greater good. Jennie- wondering what one should do with folks who want to take over the world.

[Guest guest]

Can I just mention Maynard Keynes? His Marshall Plan and the meeting at Bretton Woods just after the war was the saving grace for Europe, and the UK played a huge part in that. He was instrumental in setting up what is now the UN. Sadly the UK didnt follow his plan to well, which is why for years we were not on a par with the likes of Germany or France. Neither did the IMF follow his advice, which instead of supporting free credit for struggling countries, chose to cripple them with loans and interest instead. Dont get me started! Wars are horrendous, whoever starts them and however they finish. Perhaps that is humans for you. My two-pennies worth! Judy B, disciple of M K david bailey wrote: Janet Zimmerman <jkzmailTSSMT (DOT) NET> wrote: for me it led to eventually unleashing the terror of the A-bomb on innocent people, TWICE 'to end the war'. Janet Zee WAR - it's not about who is right, it's about who is left. me here: my take is this: during the war european powers were fighting against the germans. this left a loss of european power in south east asia...vietnam was a french controlled area, phillipines were dependant upon spain, autralia and new zealand were linked closely to britain, indonesia and

new guinea linked to holland. the japanese saw the control of these regions fading due to the war in europe and decided there was " good pickings" but the american navy based in hawaii stood between them and their plans, they chose to remove this obstacle to their plans by attacking pearl harbour. unprovoked. this annoyed the americans. the americans ended the war in the pacific and helped to do same in europe. yes, they nuked them...twice. but since the war america has helped to rebuild germany and japan to make both these countries in the economic top ten producing nations of the world. someone mentioned an analogy to AS. sometimes when someone has a different philosophy or view on a topic, you need to break them down and build them up again. 36 m diagnosed AS Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe . Sent from Yahoo! - a smarter inbox.

[Guest guest]

Hay Judy Dave, and Everyone, In a not unrelated matter, it would have been great if the Germans did not have to pay quite so much tribute for being the losers of World War I. I have seen it argued that the amount of tribute, and the conditions of surrender, indirectly contributed to Hitler's rise to power. If Hitler had not ruled Germany when Asperger did so much of his work, maybe the syndrome that bears his name would have been recognized in the states a generation earlier- and I would not have needed to wait so long to learn of it. Of course, there are even better reasons for wishing that Hitler had never come to power As a relative of the slain, I will not list them here. JUDY BARROW wrote: Can I just mention Maynard Keynes? His Marshall Plan and the meeting at Bretton Woods just after the war was the saving grace for Europe, and the UK played a huge part in that. He was instrumental in setting up what is now the UN. Sadly the UK didnt follow his plan to well, which is why for years we were not on a par with the likes of Germany or France. Neither did the IMF follow his advice, which instead of supporting free credit for struggling countries, chose to cripple them with loans and interest instead. Dont get me started! Wars are horrendous, whoever starts them and however they finish. Perhaps that is humans for you. My

two-pennies worth! Judy B, disciple of M K david bailey <daysbaysyahoo (DOT) co.uk> wrote: Janet Zimmerman <jkzmailTSSMT (DOT) NET> wrote: for me it led to eventually unleashing the terror of the A-bomb on innocent people, TWICE 'to end the war'. Janet Zee WAR - it's not about who is right, it's about who is left. me here: my take is this: during the war european powers were fighting against the germans. this left a loss of european power in south east asia...vietnam was a french controlled area, phillipines were dependant upon spain, autralia and new zealand were linked closely to britain, indonesia and

new guinea linked to holland. the japanese saw the control of these regions fading due to the war in europe and decided there was " good pickings" but the american navy based in hawaii stood between them and their plans, they chose to remove this obstacle to their plans by attacking pearl harbour. unprovoked. this annoyed the americans. the americans ended the war in the pacific and helped to do same in europe. yes, they nuked them...twice. but since the war america has helped to rebuild germany and japan to make both these countries in the economic top ten producing nations of the world. someone mentioned an analogy to AS. sometimes when someone has a different philosophy or view on a topic, you need to break them down and build them up again. 36 m diagnosed AS Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe . Sent from Yahoo! - a smarter inbox.

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