Guest guest Posted July 13, 2007 Report Share Posted July 13, 2007 Hi French, How do you know you cured those guys of PSSD with 5HTP and fish oil if they started taking the supplements as soon as they quit the SSRIs? They may have recovered naturally. A lot of us have taken those supplements to no avail, although I do believe that 5HTP can help with sleep issues. Vornan > > > > > > > > > > I have been a member here for a while, but have never taken > > > SSRI's. > > > > > My interest here has been to obtain material for some books > on > > > > > endocrinology that I will be writing. As I have been reading > the > > > > > various threads, I have noticed a few misconceptions about > > > > Serotonin > > > > > and 5 HTP. Inasmuch as I have already written this > information to > > > > > others, perhaps sharing that information may be helpful to > those > > > > that > > > > > are thinking about treatment. > > > > > > > > > > I have also help 2 men get their libido back after being on > > > SSRI's > > > > so > > > > > perhaps some thoughts on what got those two guys going again > will > > > > > also be of interest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Serotonin is the neurotransmitter for 31 different receptors. > Out > > > > of > > > > > the 31, 17 have known functions, and 14 have unknown > functions. > > > > > > > > > > The biggest use of Serotonin is in the Pineal gland, where it > is > > > > used > > > > > as the precursor to Melatonin. Melatonin is the " sleep > hormone. " > > > > > People who do not sleep well are usually deficient in both > > > > Melatonin > > > > > and Serotonin. In diagnosing a Serotonin shortage, sleep > issues > > > are > > > > > the most common of symptoms. > > > > > > > > > > Serotonin is one of three neurotransmitters that are used in > > > > > adjusting mood. The other two are Dopamine and > Norepinephrine. Of > > > > the > > > > > three, Serotonin is the most common. Serotonin is the > > > > > neurotransmitter that most anti depressants target, however, > they > > > > do > > > > > a lousy job. There are other neurotransmitters that can > affect > > > > mood, > > > > > such as GABA, but generally they do not play a very big role > in > > > > mood > > > > > issues. > > > > > > > > > > What makes Serotonin of such interest in our society is that > > > stress > > > > > causes a decline in Serotonin production. The cortico steroid > > > > > Cortisol, and its derivatives depress the hydroxylation of > > > > tryptophan > > > > > in the liver. This is how 5 HTP is made in the body. With > > > > > insufficient levels of 5 HTP, Serotonin production goes down. > > > > > Supplementing with 5 HTP is very efficient because there is > only > > > > one > > > > > enzymatic reaction to take place before it becomes Serotonin, > > > AND, > > > > > that reaction is a non saturated enzyme action. The non- > saturated > > > > > part means that there is a surplus of that enzyme above what > the > > > > > needs of the body are. So, if one takes 5 HTP, Serotonin WILL > be > > > > made. > > > > > > > > > > As it appears now, most anti-depressants will be given > a " black > > > > > label " by the FDA in the next few months. In my opinion that > is > > > > long > > > > > overdue. The black label is indicative that by using the > drug, > > > your > > > > > chances of dying are better than if you were not using it. > That > > > > fact > > > > > has already been established by the FDA. With that happening, > it > > > is > > > > > almost a certainty that 5 HTP use will soar, and anti > depressant > > > > > sales will go down tremendously. The big reason for that > would be > > > > > that the physician would have a lot more liability in the > event > > > he > > > > > were to prescribe a black label drug. > > > > > > > > > > Most Serotonin is used in the bowels, where it controls > > > peristalsis > > > > > (the sequential movement of muscle that forces liquids to > move, > > > > such > > > > > as in swallowing) the production of mucus and more. Some > > > Serotonin > > > > is > > > > > used in the vascular system, and the latest thought is that > it > > > > works > > > > > in combination with Norepinephrine in the regulation of > arteriole > > > > > action. > > > > > > > > > > The opening and closing of arterioles is most dramatically > used > > > in > > > > > the " fight or flight " response, when a threat comes, and all > of > > > the > > > > > blood in places like the stomach and bowels is closed, so > that > > > more > > > > > blood is available for the muscles so that you can run away > from > > > > what > > > > > is threatening you. When this system misfires, all kinds of > areas > > > > > become deprived of blood (ischemia) and the result is pain. 5 > HTP > > > > is > > > > > being used in various cases of myalgia, including > fibromyalgia. > > > > > > > > > > As anti depressants are such a big part of our culture, and > as I > > > > > mentioned above, the use of them will most likely decline > should > > > > the > > > > > FDA give them a black label. This is also an area where the > drug > > > > > companies are fighting to maintain a 13 billion dollar market > for > > > > > drugs that are at best a second or third class option. > > > > Understanding > > > > > them should be helpful for the members. > > > > > > > > > > When a person is diagnosed with depression, the physician has > 6 > > > > > options for treatment. Those 6 options are: > > > > > 1. Thyroid hormone > > > > > 2. SSRI's (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors). > > > > > 3. SSNRI's (Selective Serotonin and Norepinephrine > Reuptake > > > > > Inhibitors). > > > > > 4. MAOI's ( Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitoros) > > > > > 5. TCA's (Tri-Cyclic Anti- Depressants) > > > > > 6. NRI's (Norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors) > > > > > > > > > > There is one other treatment modality that is not quite on > > > > > the " official " list and that deals with testosterone. People > with > > > > > very, very low levels of Testosterone can be somewhat > depressed, > > > > but > > > > > usually the severity does not compare to.the depression > caused my > > > > > insufficient neurotransmitters. > > > > > > > > > > Thyroid hormone is the easiest thing to diagnose, as the > person's > > > > > temperature will be lower than normal. So, in diagnosing > this, > > > take > > > > > the person's temperature. If is more than 1 degree below > normal, > > > > send > > > > > them to the doctor to have their thyroid levels checked. In > doing > > > > so, > > > > > most physicians these days do a lousy job in this situation > and > > > > only > > > > > check TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone). The better way is to > > > check > > > > > TSH, free T-3, Total T-3, Free T-4 and total T-4. With those > > > tests, > > > > > you will have a very clear picture of what is wrong. > > > > > > > > > > SSRI's are by far and away the predominant anti depressant > drug > > > on > > > > > the market. I could not be more contemptuous of their use. To > > > > > understand why, it is necessary to understand what they > actually > > > > do, > > > > > besides giving a tremendous number of side effects. > > > > > > > > > > The first " S " in SSRI means " Selective " . This means that it > is > > > > > targeted to the 5HTB-6 receptor. The 5 HT part is the > > > abbreviation > > > > > for Serotonin. The B-6 refers to the specific one of the 31 > > > > Serotonin > > > > > receptor classes that it is targeting. > > > > > > > > > > The second S, stands for Serotonin, and that is obvious at > this > > > > point. > > > > > > > > > > The R stands for " reuptake. " To have to have a clear > > > understanding > > > > > of what reuptake means, one has to know how a > neurotransmitter > > > > works. > > > > > > > > > > The function of a neurotransmitter is to move an electrical > > > signal > > > > > that has been sent from a nerve, from one side of the > receptor to > > > > the > > > > > other. If you look at neurotransmitters on line, this area is > > > > called > > > > > the " synapse " or Synaptic cleft " After the electrical signal > > > gets > > > > to > > > > > the other side of the synapse, it then progresses to the > brain, > > > > where > > > > > the signal is processed and responded to. > > > > > > > > > > To make an analogy, the neurotransmitter is like a wheel > barrow, > > > > that > > > > > hauls electricity from one side of the river (the brain is > > > encased > > > > > with fluid, which is why I use the analogy of a river) to the > > > other > > > > > side. > > > > > > > > > > What is critical to getting the message across the river, is > HOW > > > > MANY > > > > > WHEEL BARROWS ONE HAS. To say this another way, it depends > on > > > how > > > > > much of the neurotransmitter is in the synapse. That is the > > > > CRITICAL > > > > > element in neurotransmission. > > > > > > > > > > When the body makes Serotonin the conversion from 5 HTP into > > > > > Serotonin mostly takes place at the receptor. The conversion > > > takes > > > > > place directly above the vesicle, and when the conversion is > > > > > completed, the Serotonin drops into the vesicle for storage > until > > > > > needed. > > > > > > > > > > As an analogy, think of the vesicle as a bellows, such as > what > > > you > > > > > would use when you want to fan a fire. In that use, when you > open > > > > the > > > > > bellows air is sucked inside. Then when you compress the > bellows, > > > a > > > > > stream of air is forced out the end, thereby helping a fire > get > > > > > started. The vesicle works the same way. When Serotonin is > made, > > > > it > > > > > drops into the vesicle. When a receptor sees that a message > > > > > (electricity) is at one side of the synapse, the vesicle > > > contracts, > > > > > thereby shooting Serotonin into the gap (the synapse) so that > it > > > > can > > > > > take that signal from one side to the other. This is > > > > the " wheelbarrow > > > > > analogy " that I described above. > > > > > > > > > > The key is how much of the neurotransmitter is available (or > > > > > graphically, how many wheelbarrows are there to move the > > > > electricity > > > > > from one side to the other). When the signal is transmitted, > it > > > > goes > > > > > to the brain for processing. > > > > > > > > > > After the signal has been transmitted, there is nothing for > the > > > > > neurotransmitter to do until the next signal comes along, so > the > > > > > vesicle (the bellows) opens, and thereby sucks most of the > > > > Serotonin > > > > > back into the vesicle for reuse later. That action is called > > > > REUPTAKE. > > > > > > > > > > As an example of why the VOLUME of the signal is important, > > > imagine > > > > > your finger laid flat on a table, and having a feather drop > on > > > it. > > > > > You would feel a very, light touch, and not much of a signal > > > would > > > > be > > > > > sent to the brain. Now imagine hitting your finger with a > hammer. > > > A > > > > > very large signal is sent to the brain. It is the same thing > in > > > > > neurotransmission. If insufficient amounts of signal make it > to > > > the > > > > > brain, the brain cannot respond. Whatever that nerve was > > > connected > > > > > to, is now not functioning well or at all. > > > > > > > > > > Another example is anesthesia. When you are having surgery, > all > > > of > > > > > the nerves where the surgery is taking place still work, only > the > > > > > signal is blocked from getting to the brain. If you loose the > > > > signal > > > > > due to not having sufficient amounts of a neurotransmitter, > you > > > get > > > > > essentially the same result, which is " no response. " > > > > > > > > > > As I mentioned above, the AMOUNT of a neurotransmitter is > the > > > > > critical component in neurotransmission. The body makes > Serotonin > > > > all > > > > > the time. Having too much Serotonin is as bad as having too > > > little, > > > > > so the body gets rid of the Serotonin all the time as well. > There > > > > are > > > > > four methods that your body uses to get rid of the > Serotonin. > > > They > > > > > are: > > > > > 1. Diffusion. In diffusion, the Serotonin simply floats > away > > > > > outside of the synapse. The brain is encased in fluid, and in > the > > > > > synapse, that fluid is there as well. > > > > > 2. Glial cells. The glial cells are outside of the > various > > > > > receptors and their function is to " eat " the Serotonin and > > > thereby > > > > > convert it into other things which cannot act as a > > > neurotransmitter. > > > > > 3. MAO. Monoamine Oxidase. Serotonin is a " monoamine. " > The > > > mono > > > > > means single, and amine is a type of molecule. There are many > > > > > monoamines in the body. The oxidase means that it is an > enzyme > > > that > > > > > will convert the monoamine into an inactive form by using > oxygen. > > > > In > > > > > the Serotonin receptor, there is not only a vesicle that > holds > > > > > Serotonin but another vesicle that holds MAO. When the two > > > combine, > > > > > the Serotonin is converted and no longer active as a > > > > neurotransmitter. > > > > > 4. Reuptake. > > > > > > > > > > Now we have to consider some facts to understand my contempt > for > > > > the > > > > > drug industry. > > > > > > > > > > 1. There is ONLY one way to make Serotonin. That is the > > > > > decarboxylation of 5 HTP. Decarboxylation means that a > carboxyl > > > > > (COOH) is removed from the 5 HTP molecule. This reaction is a > non > > > > > saturated enzymatic reaction, which means that your body has > more > > > > of > > > > > that enzyme than is necessary to make the Serotonin > necessary. > > > > > Therefore if your physician has decided that you are short of > > > > > Serotonin, there is ONLY one way to add more, which is to > > > > supplement > > > > > with 5 HTP. There is an alternative that some may select > which is > > > > to > > > > > supplement with Tryptophan, however this requires that the > liver > > > > > convert that into 5 HTP so that can be used as intended. > > > > > > > > > > 2. If you need Serotonin, and you take 5 HTP, you WILL > make > > > it > > > > > due to the non saturation of the decarboxylation enzyme. > > > > > > > > > > 3. Reuptake is a method that the body uses TO GET RID OF > > > > > SEROTONIN. By definition, it cannot make one molecule of > > > Serotonin > > > > > ever. > > > > > > > > > > 4. What a SSRI does is to inhibit a way that the body > gets > > > rid > > > > of > > > > > Serotonin. However,if you simply prevent the body from > sucking it > > > > > back into the vesicle you have done nothing to prevent the > other > > > > > three methods of getting rid of Serotonin, from working AND, > > > those > > > > > methods now begin to work better because there is more > Serotonin > > > to > > > > > work on. > > > > > > > > > > The question that normally comes up now is that if the > physician > > > > > decides that your Serotonin levels are too low, why would he > not > > > > give > > > > > you something that absolutely will raise those levels, rather > > > than > > > > > try to accomplish the same goal by trying to disable a system > > > that > > > > > gets rid of Serotonin? The answer to the question is simple. > 5 > > > HTP > > > > > is a natural compound and cannot be patented. Further, as it > is > > > > > already being sold over the counter cheaply, there is no > market > > > for > > > > > it. As a result, they have to try to find a way to accomplish > the > > > > > same goal with a compound that CAN be patented, even if they > have > > > > to > > > > > kill some of their customers in the process. So, to keep a > > > > > $13,000,000,000 business alive, they need to have patented > > > > > medications that can be sold for high prices. This requires > the > > > > > complicity (or perhaps just the ignorance or stupidity) of > the > > > > > physicians prescribing the drugs, and the willingness to > stand by > > > > > when your product kills a few more people than would > otherwise > > > die. > > > > > > > > > > SSNRI'S do the same as SSRI's except that they work on both > > > > Serotonin > > > > > and Norepinephrine receptors. > > > > > > > > > > MAOI's are not used very much because they inhibit ALL > Monamine > > > > > Oxidase, which is used in many, many reactions. Also, one of > the > > > > side > > > > > effects with this medication is death. They have many other > side > > > > > effects that are serious, hence they are not used often. > > > > > > > > > > TCA's Tri Cyclic Anti-depressants are an old method that > works > > > on > > > > > Serotonin and Norepinephrine. It has many side effects as > well, > > > and > > > > > is thought of as being much less effect than SSRI's, so they > are > > > > not > > > > > used often. > > > > > > > > > > NRI's Norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors. These work on > > > > > Norepinephrine only, and as Serotonin is the most important > > > > > neurotransmitter in mood, they are not used often. > > > > > > > > > > The reason that 5 HTP has such quick response, is that after > > > > > digestion, the last reaction, which converts 5 HTP into > Serotonin > > > > > works very quickly. When there is sufficient amounts of the > > > > > neurotransmitter available at the synapse, the message gets > > > through > > > > > to the brain, and the brain can then react to the message. > > > > > > > > > > Because of 5 HTP's action, it is the one of the highest > selling > > > of > > > > > supplements in the business. Since stress reduces the output > of > > > > > Serotonin, and our world seems to be more stressful all the > time, > > > > it > > > > > would seem that we may all feel the need to use this > supplement > > > at > > > > > some time in our lives. > > > > > > > > > > To raise serotonin levels these options are available: > > > > > 1. Supplement with 5 HTP-- 100% successful > > > > > 2. Supplement with Tryptophan (an amino acid- or one of 20 > amino > > > > > acids that in total comprise " protein " ) This will be > effective if > > > > you > > > > > do not have a liver problem that causes you to not be > effective > > > in > > > > > the chemical process of " hyroxylation) Efficency depends on > > > > > individual performance. > > > > > 3. Reduce stress in your life. Since stress causes cortisol > to be > > > > > released, and since cortisol inhibits hydroxylation in the > liver, > > > > > reducing stress will usually raise serotonin levels. The > > > effeciency > > > > > of this method depends on how well you can reduce stress, and > > > what > > > > > your natural levles of Serotonin are. > > > > > > > > > > Taking any of the anti depressants is at best about 30% > > > effective, > > > > > and its effectiveness seems to correlate wiht having higher > > > levels > > > > of > > > > > Serotonin to begin with. > > > > > > > > > > In getting the two guys fixed from their ED, they both got > off of > > > > > their SSRI's, went on to 5 HTP, 5 grams a day of fish oil > pills, > > > A > > > > > protein shake made with whey isolate protein as well as bulk > > > > > vitamins, minerals and a gram of MSM. > > > > > > > > > > Then we went over their adrenal hormone system. > Supplementation > > > in > > > > > that area is age dependant, as well as symptom dependant. As > this > > > > is > > > > > already a very long letter, I will wait to see if there is > much > > > > > demand in that area before going there. > > > > > > > > > > For women, problems associated with PMS, can me much more > than > > > just > > > > > feeling poorly before her period. Estrogen/progesterone > imbalance > > > > is > > > > > darn important and a failue to correct thses issues not only > > > makes > > > > > the woman tough to live with, but also impacts her health > > > > > considerably. > > > > > > > > > > I will be happy to post the protcol for fixing PMS in women, > > > which > > > > > also corrects that mood issues that they get if there is > interest > > > > on > > > > > the board. > > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.