RE: Gastro-intestinal problems and back pain?

[Guest guest]

Hi Todd,

With regard to the Neurological Loop what I intended to say is that the small

intestine neurologically gets it sensory inervation from the same nerves that

feed the abdominal muscles. So when your brain gets this message of pain from

the small intestine due to the inflamation, it can't differentiate whether it's

pain from the abdominal muscles or if it's coming from the intestinal tract

because both regions feed the same interneurons that send the pain messages to

the brain so it behaves as though everything is in pain. So imflammation in the

gut can lead to a disruption in the capability of the muscles that stabilise

your spine. Which leads to back pain.

Thank You

Kind Regards

Heldoorn

Sydney, Australia

==================================

todd langer wrote:

,

I'm not sure about the same CNS loop (stomach = enteric nervous system);

however, there are a lot of fascial continuities into the lumbar spine. In

that regard a stomach ailment can directly cause lower back pain..

Todd Langer, MSc, Rolfer

Boulder, CO

=================================

_____

From: Supertraining [mailto:Supertraining ]

On Behalf Of carruthersjam

Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 7:42 AM

To: Supertraining

Subject: Gastro-intestinal problems and back pain?

>

>

> The problem with lower back pain is that it can be a myriad of

factors. As you pointed out stress can have a major influence. The

stress you have today manifests structurally in a year from now.

>

> Posture is another major contributor. To much pelvic tilt or not

enought can lead to clinical back pain.

>

> Gastro-intestinal problems can cause back pain because the

neurologically they are on the same loop so your brain can't

distinguish between pain in the GI Tract or your lower back so it

sends pain messages to both.

>

======================================

[Guest guest]

--- todd langer wrote:

> ,

>

> I'm not sure about the same CNS loop (stomach =

> enteric nervous system);

> however, there are a lot of fascial continuities

> into the lumbar spine. In

> that regard a stomach ailment can directly cause

> lower back pain..

>

> Todd Langer, MSc, Rolfer

> Boulder, CO

Todd, could you explain to us how a stomach ailment

can directly cause lower back pain. I would be

interested in the mechanism by which this occurs. The

only occurrence of a stomach ailment causing back pain

is a very rare perforation of the stomach by an ulcer.

This occurs mostly when the ulcer penetrates into the

pancreas.

Pancreatic disease can sometimes present as back pain

but that is neither the stomach nor is it considered

part of the intestine. And in the case of the pancreas

the pain is in the mid back in the thoraco lumbar

area. The gallbladder can also cause pain but that is

upper back pain are even shoulder pain.

The intestine has a brain and nervous system separate

from the central nervous system. It is called the

autonomic system because it acts autonomously. This

system is made of the sympathetic and parasympathetic

system. None of these are connected directly or

indirectly as far as I know to the lower back. They do

connect to the spinal cord via the paraspinal ganglia

but they do not share the same pathways to the brain

as the sensory nerves from the back.

The kidney can cause back pain but that is not part of

the intestine either.

Since in my practice of medicine I deal with many

patients with back pain and I consult on patients with

intestinal ailments I am trying to understand how this

connection of intestines and low back pain was made.

Perhaps I missed something along the way.

Perhaps you can provide a credible reference for your

statement.

Ralph Giarnella MD

Southington Ct USA

> =================================

> _____

>

> From: Supertraining

> [mailto:Supertraining ]

> On Behalf Of carruthersjam

> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 7:42 AM

> To: Supertraining

> Subject: Gastro-intestinal problems

> and back pain?

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > The problem with lower back pain is that it can be

> a myriad of

> factors. As you pointed out stress can have a major

> influence. The

> stress you have today manifests structurally in a

> year from now.

> >

> > Posture is another major contributor. To much

> pelvic tilt or not

> enought can lead to clinical back pain.

> >

> > Gastro-intestinal problems can cause back pain

> because the

> neurologically they are on the same loop so your

> brain can't

> distinguish between pain in the GI Tract or your

> lower back so it

> sends pain messages to both.

> >

>

> ****

> Could you possibly provide any evidence for the

> above statement.

>

> ======================================

>

[Guest guest]

--- todd langer wrote:

> ,

>

> I'm not sure about the same CNS loop (stomach =

> enteric nervous system);

> however, there are a lot of fascial continuities

> into the lumbar spine. In

> that regard a stomach ailment can directly cause

> lower back pain..

>

> Todd Langer, MSc, Rolfer

> Boulder, CO

Todd, could you explain to us how a stomach ailment

can directly cause lower back pain. I would be

interested in the mechanism by which this occurs. The

only occurrence of a stomach ailment causing back pain

is a very rare perforation of the stomach by an ulcer.

This occurs mostly when the ulcer penetrates into the

pancreas.

Pancreatic disease can sometimes present as back pain

but that is neither the stomach nor is it considered

part of the intestine. And in the case of the pancreas

the pain is in the mid back in the thoraco lumbar

area. The gallbladder can also cause pain but that is

upper back pain are even shoulder pain.

The intestine has a brain and nervous system separate

from the central nervous system. It is called the

autonomic system because it acts autonomously. This

system is made of the sympathetic and parasympathetic

system. None of these are connected directly or

indirectly as far as I know to the lower back. They do

connect to the spinal cord via the paraspinal ganglia

but they do not share the same pathways to the brain

as the sensory nerves from the back.

The kidney can cause back pain but that is not part of

the intestine either.

Since in my practice of medicine I deal with many

patients with back pain and I consult on patients with

intestinal ailments I am trying to understand how this

connection of intestines and low back pain was made.

Perhaps I missed something along the way.

Perhaps you can provide a credible reference for your

statement.

Ralph Giarnella MD

Southington Ct USA

> =================================

> _____

>

> From: Supertraining

> [mailto:Supertraining ]

> On Behalf Of carruthersjam

> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 7:42 AM

> To: Supertraining

> Subject: Gastro-intestinal problems

> and back pain?

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > The problem with lower back pain is that it can be

> a myriad of

> factors. As you pointed out stress can have a major

> influence. The

> stress you have today manifests structurally in a

> year from now.

> >

> > Posture is another major contributor. To much

> pelvic tilt or not

> enought can lead to clinical back pain.

> >

> > Gastro-intestinal problems can cause back pain

> because the

> neurologically they are on the same loop so your

> brain can't

> distinguish between pain in the GI Tract or your

> lower back so it

> sends pain messages to both.

> >

>

> ****

> Could you possibly provide any evidence for the

> above statement.

>

> ======================================

>

[Guest guest]

--- todd langer wrote:

> ,

>

> I'm not sure about the same CNS loop (stomach =

> enteric nervous system);

> however, there are a lot of fascial continuities

> into the lumbar spine. In

> that regard a stomach ailment can directly cause

> lower back pain..

>

> Todd Langer, MSc, Rolfer

> Boulder, CO

Todd, could you explain to us how a stomach ailment

can directly cause lower back pain. I would be

interested in the mechanism by which this occurs. The

only occurrence of a stomach ailment causing back pain

is a very rare perforation of the stomach by an ulcer.

This occurs mostly when the ulcer penetrates into the

pancreas.

Pancreatic disease can sometimes present as back pain

but that is neither the stomach nor is it considered

part of the intestine. And in the case of the pancreas

the pain is in the mid back in the thoraco lumbar

area. The gallbladder can also cause pain but that is

upper back pain are even shoulder pain.

The intestine has a brain and nervous system separate

from the central nervous system. It is called the

autonomic system because it acts autonomously. This

system is made of the sympathetic and parasympathetic

system. None of these are connected directly or

indirectly as far as I know to the lower back. They do

connect to the spinal cord via the paraspinal ganglia

but they do not share the same pathways to the brain

as the sensory nerves from the back.

The kidney can cause back pain but that is not part of

the intestine either.

Since in my practice of medicine I deal with many

patients with back pain and I consult on patients with

intestinal ailments I am trying to understand how this

connection of intestines and low back pain was made.

Perhaps I missed something along the way.

Perhaps you can provide a credible reference for your

statement.

Ralph Giarnella MD

Southington Ct USA

> =================================

> _____

>

> From: Supertraining

> [mailto:Supertraining ]

> On Behalf Of carruthersjam

> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 7:42 AM

> To: Supertraining

> Subject: Gastro-intestinal problems

> and back pain?

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > The problem with lower back pain is that it can be

> a myriad of

> factors. As you pointed out stress can have a major

> influence. The

> stress you have today manifests structurally in a

> year from now.

> >

> > Posture is another major contributor. To much

> pelvic tilt or not

> enought can lead to clinical back pain.

> >

> > Gastro-intestinal problems can cause back pain

> because the

> neurologically they are on the same loop so your

> brain can't

> distinguish between pain in the GI Tract or your

> lower back so it

> sends pain messages to both.

> >

>

> ****

> Could you possibly provide any evidence for the

> above statement.

>

> ======================================

>