Guest guest Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 I have been a part of this group for some time, but have not posted much as my 14 year old son does not have a definitive AS diagnosis. He shows many AS-like features, but none of his doctors want to go out on a limb and say yes or no. He IS diagnosed with ADHD, ODD, OCD, Tourette's, anxiety and rages. Anyway, a couple of weeks ago - two days before Thanksgiving - I sent him to school against my best judgement. He had missed several days (6-7) in mid November due to severe headaches, which at the time we did not know the cause of. He had been under antibiotic treatment for sinus infections since mid-September. Things were not getting better and he was miserable with the headaches. We kept going to the doctors, trying to get answers. He was tremendously light sensitive during all this time. He went to school and was wearing his hooded sweatshirt pulled down over his eyes so he could see at all. Went to nurse to get his noon meds (had just walked out of a dark classroom - watching a movie - into very bright sunlight). She demanded that he take down his hood (school rule: no one is allowed to wear hoods in the school. Supposedly a security issue - so that they can identify a student if they are causing trouble) He refused, explaining that his eyes hurt with the lights. She demanded again, he refused again. She called the associate principal who demanded that he comply with their wishes, he again refused and got upset, cussing and blustering. I was called and said that I would be there in five minutes (it was closer to three). In that amount of time, my son told the assoc. principal that he was going to go out and wait for me. Associate principal placed himself in between my son and the door out of the nurses office and told my son that he was going to stay in the office and de-escalate since he was not going to be allowed to go home until after I arrived and we all had discussed the situation. My son jabbed his index finger into the assoc. principals collarbone and said that he was leaving. Assoc. principal wouldn't move and tells my son that he just committed an assault. My son jabs him harder and says " no, that is an assault. " I get there and there are two officers, my son is blithering and crying he is so upset. I sit on the floor in front of him and try to calm him down. I finally get him reasonably calm and tell assoc. principal that I am taking him home. The officer says that she will meet with us on Friday after Thanksgiving. I get my son home, give him pain killers for his headache, place him in a dark, quiet room and within an hour he is out cold - sleeps for four hours. He has an appointment with the doctor later that afternoon. Doctor gives him a script to wear sunglasses in class, so sun sensitivity won't be problem. They schedule a CT scan of his sinuses. Result? Large cyst in his left maxillary sinus. Appointment with ENT specialist following Monday. Result? Not causing the headaches. Not in right place. Large, yes, but benign and probably of no consequence. Sent to neurologist that Thursday. Result? Migraines, severe migraines. Put on Amitriptyline as a preventative. Missed all but one day of last week due to appointments and has already missed two days of this week. Got this email from assoc principal about the incident. “I received a call from school nurse at approximatey 11:05 am. She reported to me that student was in the nurse’s office, that he was belligerent and uncooperative. It was explained to me that student came into the nurse’s office with his hood up. The nurse’s assistant, reminded him of the school rule about hoods and asked him to take the hood down. Student refused and responded with profanity and refused to comply with the request. She then called for me in the office. When I arrived, student was sitting calmly with a smirk on his face. My initial impression of his attitude and demeanor was that he was seeking a conflict. I stood approximately 10-12 feet from him. I attempted to re-direct him and then later asked him to remove his hood. He refused and responded with profanity. I quietly but firmly explained to him that the rules about profanity and hoods are in force for all students. He attempted to argue with me and interrupted me many times. I continued with my explanation. When it appeared that he was attempting to continue to escalate the situation, I quit talking to him and asked nurse to contact the mother in an attempt to diffuse the situation. I determined that my interventions at that point and time were not going to be successful, so my goal was to maintain him in the office until the mother arrived. He went on a profane tirade lasting approximately one minute. We remained silent. Student was not being reinforced by getting attention from his behavior. He stopped his tirade and calmed himself down. He sat silently for approximately one minute. He then decided he was going to leave the nurse’s office. He stood up and announced his intention to do so. I asked him to stay in the office, since his mother was coming to meet with us and so we could resolve the issues at hand. He became immediately angry and told me he was leaving anyway. He went on to say that I had no authority to tell him what to do. II stood in a fig-leaf position to protect myself. He came right up towards me and stopped. He stood silently. I then quietly asked him to return to his seat until his mother arrived. He immediately began an explosive, profane outburst. The nurse’s assistant worked to clear the other students from the office, due to his explosive nature and the danger he posed to others. He paused for a few seconds and pushed me twice. I told him that his actions were an assault. He threatened me by telling me he would hurt me if I did not move and then struck me in the left collarbone area twice. He stated, ”There, that’s an assault.” I backed up to the Main Door of the office to provide him more space. He chose to come towards me in an aggressive manner. He again pushed me multiple times at the door opening. At this time school liaison officer arrived due to the commotion and noise in the office. He asked him to return to his seat. Student cursed at him and threw two elbows in the direction of his head. He grabbed his backpack strap and attempted to pull him off of me. Student swung his left arm at me, then spun around and again attempted to elbow him . I restrained his right arm and he then restrained his left arm. Student yelled out that he was being assaulted. Student was told, by both of us, that we would let go if we chose to regain control of himself. He de-escalated himself. Student then began to walk back to the nurse’s area. Student then threw a pencil in a violent manner and kicked a chair twice. He was informed that he would be responsible for any property he destroyed, and that further aggressive acts would result in him being restrained. He responded with further profanity. He then chose to de-escalate himself and sat down in the chair in the Nurse’s area. At this point law enforcement arrived. Student began to scream at the officer. The officer attempted to ask me what had happened. He again interrupted and screamed. The officer felt he was out of control and called for a backup officer. Student will be held accountable for his assaultive and disorderly behaviors. His behavior and choices put several adults and students in imminent danger of harm. Several times during this process he was able to calm himself, only to escalate himself again when it did not appear he was going to get what he wanted. He appeared to be seeking to control all aspects of this situation. When hedid not get his way, he chose to escalate. After he would de-escalate, he would blame his behaviors on the adults in the situation, and took no ownership of his own choices. When he did not get sympathy after his explanations, he again chose to escalate in attempt to engage the adults around him. I have a basic understanding of the issues this student is facing. It appeared to me that he made a number of conscious choices throughout my dealings with him. No adults were inappropriate with him at any time throughout this situation. Not all of his choices can be explained away as a disability. He must be responsible for his choices. “ When I talked to my son he admitted to getting angry when asked to remove his hood as his headache was very severe at that time. He also admitted that he shouldn’t have gotten out of control. He feels badly that it happened yet wishes that they would be more understanding of how much pain he was in. I am frustrated with my son - I am frustrated with the school. I understand him getting angry - when I think back to some of my more severe migraines I can see me acting much the same way (without the profanity). I can see me getting defensive and arguing. In fact I’m sure I have. I only hope that this does not mean placement. He was told by the judge in September (charges resulting from an OCD episode at the middle school last December - they picked him up and moved him into a time out room during an OCD attack, resulting in him getting hysterical) that if he had one charge brought he would be placed. I am dreading this Friday when he will see the Juvenile Court officer about the two simple assault charges and the disorderly conduct charge he received for this incident. The officer who issued the tickets is very understanding and said that we might be able to get the assault charges dropped due to the diagnosis of severe migraines, but she wasn't sure. When she came over, the room had to be darkened (8 a.m.) and the sound muffled or my son was in pain. This is a child that I have been telling them for several years is not socially adept. He has no friends and hasn't had but maybe two in his entire life - he cannot keep them - doesn't know how to be a friend. He may be 14, but reacts emotionally and socially at about the 9 -11 year old level. He opens mouth and whatever is in his mind at the time just comes flooding out, it's like there is no censorship before it exits his mouth. The school and I have had several discussions about this - the most recent being the Friday before the incident when the same associate principal said that he could see Asperger's like behaviors in my son. (yet when I tried to show the psychologist hired by the court for an evaluation those same behaviors, they decided that I was making up the symptoms and was trying to actually create problems for my son) Sorry this is so long, but do any of you have any ideas on what I can take with me when we see the Juvenile Court officer on Friday morning to help explain the incident? The behaviors he exhibited were not out of the norm for him. I have contacted the school counselor and inquired about social skill training, he has yet to get back to me. My son is convinced that nothing will happen to him - or so he would like me to believe. In unguarded moments he cries(sobs) about the possibility of being sent away. The very concept terrifies him. I am at a loss as to what to do and terrified about what Friday will bring. Thank you for bearing with me for such a long post and thank you for any and all insights you may have. Steph _________________________________________________________________ Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the FREE McAfee online computer scan! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 I have been a part of this group for some time, but have not posted much as my 14 year old son does not have a definitive AS diagnosis. He shows many AS-like features, but none of his doctors want to go out on a limb and say yes or no. He IS diagnosed with ADHD, ODD, OCD, Tourette's, anxiety and rages. Anyway, a couple of weeks ago - two days before Thanksgiving - I sent him to school against my best judgement. He had missed several days (6-7) in mid November due to severe headaches, which at the time we did not know the cause of. He had been under antibiotic treatment for sinus infections since mid-September. Things were not getting better and he was miserable with the headaches. We kept going to the doctors, trying to get answers. He was tremendously light sensitive during all this time. He went to school and was wearing his hooded sweatshirt pulled down over his eyes so he could see at all. Went to nurse to get his noon meds (had just walked out of a dark classroom - watching a movie - into very bright sunlight). She demanded that he take down his hood (school rule: no one is allowed to wear hoods in the school. Supposedly a security issue - so that they can identify a student if they are causing trouble) He refused, explaining that his eyes hurt with the lights. She demanded again, he refused again. She called the associate principal who demanded that he comply with their wishes, he again refused and got upset, cussing and blustering. I was called and said that I would be there in five minutes (it was closer to three). In that amount of time, my son told the assoc. principal that he was going to go out and wait for me. Associate principal placed himself in between my son and the door out of the nurses office and told my son that he was going to stay in the office and de-escalate since he was not going to be allowed to go home until after I arrived and we all had discussed the situation. My son jabbed his index finger into the assoc. principals collarbone and said that he was leaving. Assoc. principal wouldn't move and tells my son that he just committed an assault. My son jabs him harder and says " no, that is an assault. " I get there and there are two officers, my son is blithering and crying he is so upset. I sit on the floor in front of him and try to calm him down. I finally get him reasonably calm and tell assoc. principal that I am taking him home. The officer says that she will meet with us on Friday after Thanksgiving. I get my son home, give him pain killers for his headache, place him in a dark, quiet room and within an hour he is out cold - sleeps for four hours. He has an appointment with the doctor later that afternoon. Doctor gives him a script to wear sunglasses in class, so sun sensitivity won't be problem. They schedule a CT scan of his sinuses. Result? Large cyst in his left maxillary sinus. Appointment with ENT specialist following Monday. Result? Not causing the headaches. Not in right place. Large, yes, but benign and probably of no consequence. Sent to neurologist that Thursday. Result? Migraines, severe migraines. Put on Amitriptyline as a preventative. Missed all but one day of last week due to appointments and has already missed two days of this week. Got this email from assoc principal about the incident. “I received a call from school nurse at approximatey 11:05 am. She reported to me that student was in the nurse’s office, that he was belligerent and uncooperative. It was explained to me that student came into the nurse’s office with his hood up. The nurse’s assistant, reminded him of the school rule about hoods and asked him to take the hood down. Student refused and responded with profanity and refused to comply with the request. She then called for me in the office. When I arrived, student was sitting calmly with a smirk on his face. My initial impression of his attitude and demeanor was that he was seeking a conflict. I stood approximately 10-12 feet from him. I attempted to re-direct him and then later asked him to remove his hood. He refused and responded with profanity. I quietly but firmly explained to him that the rules about profanity and hoods are in force for all students. He attempted to argue with me and interrupted me many times. I continued with my explanation. When it appeared that he was attempting to continue to escalate the situation, I quit talking to him and asked nurse to contact the mother in an attempt to diffuse the situation. I determined that my interventions at that point and time were not going to be successful, so my goal was to maintain him in the office until the mother arrived. He went on a profane tirade lasting approximately one minute. We remained silent. Student was not being reinforced by getting attention from his behavior. He stopped his tirade and calmed himself down. He sat silently for approximately one minute. He then decided he was going to leave the nurse’s office. He stood up and announced his intention to do so. I asked him to stay in the office, since his mother was coming to meet with us and so we could resolve the issues at hand. He became immediately angry and told me he was leaving anyway. He went on to say that I had no authority to tell him what to do. II stood in a fig-leaf position to protect myself. He came right up towards me and stopped. He stood silently. I then quietly asked him to return to his seat until his mother arrived. He immediately began an explosive, profane outburst. The nurse’s assistant worked to clear the other students from the office, due to his explosive nature and the danger he posed to others. He paused for a few seconds and pushed me twice. I told him that his actions were an assault. He threatened me by telling me he would hurt me if I did not move and then struck me in the left collarbone area twice. He stated, ”There, that’s an assault.” I backed up to the Main Door of the office to provide him more space. He chose to come towards me in an aggressive manner. He again pushed me multiple times at the door opening. At this time school liaison officer arrived due to the commotion and noise in the office. He asked him to return to his seat. Student cursed at him and threw two elbows in the direction of his head. He grabbed his backpack strap and attempted to pull him off of me. Student swung his left arm at me, then spun around and again attempted to elbow him . I restrained his right arm and he then restrained his left arm. Student yelled out that he was being assaulted. Student was told, by both of us, that we would let go if we chose to regain control of himself. He de-escalated himself. Student then began to walk back to the nurse’s area. Student then threw a pencil in a violent manner and kicked a chair twice. He was informed that he would be responsible for any property he destroyed, and that further aggressive acts would result in him being restrained. He responded with further profanity. He then chose to de-escalate himself and sat down in the chair in the Nurse’s area. At this point law enforcement arrived. Student began to scream at the officer. The officer attempted to ask me what had happened. He again interrupted and screamed. The officer felt he was out of control and called for a backup officer. Student will be held accountable for his assaultive and disorderly behaviors. His behavior and choices put several adults and students in imminent danger of harm. Several times during this process he was able to calm himself, only to escalate himself again when it did not appear he was going to get what he wanted. He appeared to be seeking to control all aspects of this situation. When hedid not get his way, he chose to escalate. After he would de-escalate, he would blame his behaviors on the adults in the situation, and took no ownership of his own choices. When he did not get sympathy after his explanations, he again chose to escalate in attempt to engage the adults around him. I have a basic understanding of the issues this student is facing. It appeared to me that he made a number of conscious choices throughout my dealings with him. No adults were inappropriate with him at any time throughout this situation. Not all of his choices can be explained away as a disability. He must be responsible for his choices. “ When I talked to my son he admitted to getting angry when asked to remove his hood as his headache was very severe at that time. He also admitted that he shouldn’t have gotten out of control. He feels badly that it happened yet wishes that they would be more understanding of how much pain he was in. I am frustrated with my son - I am frustrated with the school. I understand him getting angry - when I think back to some of my more severe migraines I can see me acting much the same way (without the profanity). I can see me getting defensive and arguing. In fact I’m sure I have. I only hope that this does not mean placement. He was told by the judge in September (charges resulting from an OCD episode at the middle school last December - they picked him up and moved him into a time out room during an OCD attack, resulting in him getting hysterical) that if he had one charge brought he would be placed. I am dreading this Friday when he will see the Juvenile Court officer about the two simple assault charges and the disorderly conduct charge he received for this incident. The officer who issued the tickets is very understanding and said that we might be able to get the assault charges dropped due to the diagnosis of severe migraines, but she wasn't sure. When she came over, the room had to be darkened (8 a.m.) and the sound muffled or my son was in pain. This is a child that I have been telling them for several years is not socially adept. He has no friends and hasn't had but maybe two in his entire life - he cannot keep them - doesn't know how to be a friend. He may be 14, but reacts emotionally and socially at about the 9 -11 year old level. He opens mouth and whatever is in his mind at the time just comes flooding out, it's like there is no censorship before it exits his mouth. The school and I have had several discussions about this - the most recent being the Friday before the incident when the same associate principal said that he could see Asperger's like behaviors in my son. (yet when I tried to show the psychologist hired by the court for an evaluation those same behaviors, they decided that I was making up the symptoms and was trying to actually create problems for my son) Sorry this is so long, but do any of you have any ideas on what I can take with me when we see the Juvenile Court officer on Friday morning to help explain the incident? The behaviors he exhibited were not out of the norm for him. I have contacted the school counselor and inquired about social skill training, he has yet to get back to me. My son is convinced that nothing will happen to him - or so he would like me to believe. In unguarded moments he cries(sobs) about the possibility of being sent away. The very concept terrifies him. I am at a loss as to what to do and terrified about what Friday will bring. Thank you for bearing with me for such a long post and thank you for any and all insights you may have. Steph _________________________________________________________________ Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the FREE McAfee online computer scan! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 HI , I just joined this group a few weeks ago and am also a lurker, I am on quite a few other Autistic Support Groups and have heard about the same story as you are telling about your son. Have you ever had your son to a Neurologist? Your son sounds AS to me. I can't believe no Dr. has given him a diagnosis. If you are able, I would pull him out of that school asap if that is possible. If you are able to teach at home their are Cyber Charter Schools or you could home school. I am in PA and we have an excellent Cyber Charter School here and they really care about your children and how they learn. Where are you at? It is not as hard as it sounds after you get used to it. There are teachers that you can e mail or call at anytime to ask questions and they really care. If you have any questions that I might be able to answer don't hesitate to e mail me. Sally in PA - USA RE: Digest Number 1220 > I have been a part of this group for some time, but have not posted much as > my 14 year old son does not have a definitive AS diagnosis. He shows many > AS-like features, but none of his doctors want to go out on a limb and say > yes or no. He IS diagnosed with ADHD, ODD, OCD, Tourette's, anxiety and > rages. > > Anyway, a couple of weeks ago - two days before Thanksgiving - I sent him to > school against my best judgement. He had missed several days (6-7) in mid > November due to severe headaches, which at the time we did not know the > cause of. He had been under antibiotic treatment for sinus infections since > mid-September. Things were not getting better and he was miserable with the > headaches. We kept going to the doctors, trying to get answers. > > He was tremendously light sensitive during all this time. He went to school > and was wearing his hooded sweatshirt pulled down over his eyes so he could > see at all. Went to nurse to get his noon meds (had just walked out of a > dark classroom - watching a movie - into very bright sunlight). She > demanded that he take down his hood (school rule: no one is allowed to wear > hoods in the school. Supposedly a security issue - so that they can identify > a student if they are causing trouble) He refused, explaining that his eyes > hurt with the lights. She demanded again, he refused again. She called the > associate principal who demanded that he comply with their wishes, he again > refused and got upset, cussing and blustering. I was called and said that I > would be there in five minutes (it was closer to three). In that amount of > time, my son told the assoc. principal that he was going to go out and wait > for me. Associate principal placed himself in between my son and the door > out of the nurses office and told my son that he was going to stay in the > office and de-escalate since he was not going to be allowed to go home until > after I arrived and we all had discussed the situation. My son jabbed his > index finger into the assoc. principals collarbone and said that he was > leaving. Assoc. principal wouldn't move and tells my son that he just > committed an assault. My son jabs him harder and says " no, that is an > assault. " I get there and there are two officers, my son is blithering and > crying he is so upset. I sit on the floor in front of him and try to calm > him down. I finally get him reasonably calm and tell assoc. principal that > I am taking him home. The officer says that she will meet with us on Friday > after Thanksgiving. > > I get my son home, give him pain killers for his headache, place him in a > dark, quiet room and within an hour he is out cold - sleeps for four hours. > He has an appointment with the doctor later that afternoon. Doctor gives > him a script to wear sunglasses in class, so sun sensitivity won't be > problem. They schedule a CT scan of his sinuses. Result? Large cyst in his > left maxillary sinus. Appointment with ENT specialist following Monday. > Result? Not causing the headaches. Not in right place. Large, yes, but > benign and probably of no consequence. Sent to neurologist that Thursday. > Result? Migraines, severe migraines. Put on Amitriptyline as a > preventative. Missed all but one day of last week due to appointments and > has already missed two days of this week. > > Got this email from assoc principal about the incident. > > " I received a call from school nurse at approximatey 11:05 am. She > reported to me that student was in the nurse's office, that he was > belligerent and uncooperative. It was explained to me that student came > into the nurse's office with his hood up. The nurse's assistant, reminded > him of the school rule about hoods and asked him to take the hood down. > Student refused and responded with profanity and refused to comply with the > request. > > She then called for me in the office. When I arrived, student was sitting > calmly with a smirk on his face. My initial impression of his attitude and > demeanor was that he was seeking a conflict. I stood approximately 10-12 > feet from him. I attempted to re-direct him and then later asked him to > remove his hood. He refused and responded with profanity. > > I quietly but firmly explained to him that the rules about profanity and > hoods are in force for all students. He attempted to argue with me and > interrupted me many times. I continued with my explanation. When it > appeared that he was attempting to continue to escalate the situation, I > quit talking to him and asked nurse to contact the mother in an attempt to > diffuse the situation. I determined that my interventions at that point and > time were not going to be successful, so my goal was to maintain him in the > office until the mother arrived. He went on a profane tirade lasting > approximately one minute. We remained silent. Student was not being > reinforced by getting attention from his behavior. He stopped his tirade > and calmed himself down. He sat silently for approximately one minute. He > then decided he was going to leave the nurse's office. He stood up and > announced his intention to do so. I asked him to stay in the office, since > his mother was coming to meet with us and so we could resolve the issues at > hand. He became immediately angry and told me he was leaving anyway. He > went on to say that I had no authority to tell him what to do. > > II stood in a fig-leaf position to protect myself. He came right up towards > me and stopped. He stood silently. I then quietly asked him to return to > his seat until his mother arrived. He immediately began an explosive, > profane outburst. The nurse's assistant worked to clear the other students > from the office, due to his explosive nature and the danger he posed to > others. He paused for a few seconds and pushed me twice. I told him that > his actions were an assault. He threatened me by telling me he would hurt > me if I did not move and then struck me in the left collarbone area twice. > He stated, " There, that's an assault. " > > I backed up to the Main Door of the office to provide him more space. He > chose to come towards me in an aggressive manner. He again pushed me > multiple times at the door opening. At this time school liaison officer > arrived due to the commotion and noise in the office. He asked him to > return to his seat. Student cursed at him and threw two elbows in the > direction of his head. He grabbed his backpack strap and attempted to pull > him off of me. Student swung his left arm at me, then spun around and again > attempted to elbow him . I restrained his right arm and he then restrained > his left arm. Student yelled out that he was being assaulted. Student was > told, by both of us, that we would let go if we chose to regain control of > himself. He de-escalated himself. Student then began to walk back to the > nurse's area. Student then threw a pencil in a violent manner and kicked a > chair twice. He was informed that he would be responsible for any property > he destroyed, and that further aggressive acts would result in him being > restrained. He responded with further profanity. He then chose to > de-escalate himself and sat down in the chair in the Nurse's area. > > At this point law enforcement arrived. Student began to scream at the > officer. The officer attempted to ask me what had happened. He again > interrupted and screamed. The officer felt he was out of control and called > for a backup officer. > > Student will be held accountable for his assaultive and disorderly > behaviors. His behavior and choices put several adults and students in > imminent danger of harm. Several times during this process he was able to > calm himself, only to escalate himself again when it did not appear he was > going to get what he wanted. He appeared to be seeking to control all > aspects of this situation. When hedid not get his way, he chose to > escalate. After he would de-escalate, he would blame his behaviors on the > adults in the situation, and took no ownership of his own choices. When he > did not get sympathy after his explanations, he again chose to escalate in > attempt to engage the adults around him. > > I have a basic understanding of the issues this student is facing. It > appeared to me that he made a number of conscious choices throughout my > dealings with him. No adults were inappropriate with him at any time > throughout this situation. Not all of his choices can be explained away as > a disability. He must be responsible for his choices. " > > When I talked to my son he admitted to getting angry when asked to remove > his hood as his headache was very severe at that time. He also admitted > that he shouldn't have gotten out of control. He feels badly that it > happened yet wishes that they would be more understanding of how much pain > he was in. > > I am frustrated with my son - I am frustrated with the school. I understand > him getting angry - when I think back to some of my more severe migraines I > can see me acting much the same way (without the profanity). I can see me > getting defensive and arguing. In fact I'm sure I have. > > I only hope that this does not mean placement. He was told by the judge in > September (charges resulting from an OCD episode at the middle school last > December - they picked him up and moved him into a time out room during an > OCD attack, resulting in him getting hysterical) that if he had one charge > brought he would be placed. I am dreading this Friday when he will see the > Juvenile Court officer about the two simple assault charges and the > disorderly conduct charge he received for this incident. The officer who > issued the tickets is very understanding and said that we might be able to > get the assault charges dropped due to the diagnosis of severe migraines, > but she wasn't sure. When she came over, the room had to be darkened (8 > a.m.) and the sound muffled or my son was in pain. > > This is a child that I have been telling them for several years is not > socially adept. He has no friends and hasn't had but maybe two in his entire > life - he cannot keep them - doesn't know how to be a friend. He may be 14, > but reacts emotionally and socially at about the 9 -11 year old level. He > opens mouth and whatever is in his mind at the time just comes flooding out, > it's like there is no censorship before it exits his mouth. The school and > I have had several discussions about this - the most recent being the Friday > before the incident when the same associate principal said that he could see > Asperger's like behaviors in my son. (yet when I tried to show the > psychologist hired by the court for an evaluation those same behaviors, they > decided that I was making up the symptoms and was trying to actually create > problems for my son) > > Sorry this is so long, but do any of you have any ideas on what I can take > with me when we see the Juvenile Court officer on Friday morning to help > explain the incident? The behaviors he exhibited were not out of the norm > for him. I have contacted the school counselor and inquired about social > skill training, he has yet to get back to me. My son is convinced that > nothing will happen to him - or so he would like me to believe. In unguarded > moments he cries(sobs) about the possibility of being sent away. The very > concept terrifies him. I am at a loss as to what to do and terrified about > what Friday will bring. > > Thank you for bearing with me for such a long post and thank you for any and > all insights you may have. > > Steph > > _________________________________________________________________ > Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the > FREE McAfee online computer scan! > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 HI , I just joined this group a few weeks ago and am also a lurker, I am on quite a few other Autistic Support Groups and have heard about the same story as you are telling about your son. Have you ever had your son to a Neurologist? Your son sounds AS to me. I can't believe no Dr. has given him a diagnosis. If you are able, I would pull him out of that school asap if that is possible. If you are able to teach at home their are Cyber Charter Schools or you could home school. I am in PA and we have an excellent Cyber Charter School here and they really care about your children and how they learn. Where are you at? It is not as hard as it sounds after you get used to it. There are teachers that you can e mail or call at anytime to ask questions and they really care. If you have any questions that I might be able to answer don't hesitate to e mail me. Sally in PA - USA RE: Digest Number 1220 > I have been a part of this group for some time, but have not posted much as > my 14 year old son does not have a definitive AS diagnosis. He shows many > AS-like features, but none of his doctors want to go out on a limb and say > yes or no. He IS diagnosed with ADHD, ODD, OCD, Tourette's, anxiety and > rages. > > Anyway, a couple of weeks ago - two days before Thanksgiving - I sent him to > school against my best judgement. He had missed several days (6-7) in mid > November due to severe headaches, which at the time we did not know the > cause of. He had been under antibiotic treatment for sinus infections since > mid-September. Things were not getting better and he was miserable with the > headaches. We kept going to the doctors, trying to get answers. > > He was tremendously light sensitive during all this time. He went to school > and was wearing his hooded sweatshirt pulled down over his eyes so he could > see at all. Went to nurse to get his noon meds (had just walked out of a > dark classroom - watching a movie - into very bright sunlight). She > demanded that he take down his hood (school rule: no one is allowed to wear > hoods in the school. Supposedly a security issue - so that they can identify > a student if they are causing trouble) He refused, explaining that his eyes > hurt with the lights. She demanded again, he refused again. She called the > associate principal who demanded that he comply with their wishes, he again > refused and got upset, cussing and blustering. I was called and said that I > would be there in five minutes (it was closer to three). In that amount of > time, my son told the assoc. principal that he was going to go out and wait > for me. Associate principal placed himself in between my son and the door > out of the nurses office and told my son that he was going to stay in the > office and de-escalate since he was not going to be allowed to go home until > after I arrived and we all had discussed the situation. My son jabbed his > index finger into the assoc. principals collarbone and said that he was > leaving. Assoc. principal wouldn't move and tells my son that he just > committed an assault. My son jabs him harder and says " no, that is an > assault. " I get there and there are two officers, my son is blithering and > crying he is so upset. I sit on the floor in front of him and try to calm > him down. I finally get him reasonably calm and tell assoc. principal that > I am taking him home. The officer says that she will meet with us on Friday > after Thanksgiving. > > I get my son home, give him pain killers for his headache, place him in a > dark, quiet room and within an hour he is out cold - sleeps for four hours. > He has an appointment with the doctor later that afternoon. Doctor gives > him a script to wear sunglasses in class, so sun sensitivity won't be > problem. They schedule a CT scan of his sinuses. Result? Large cyst in his > left maxillary sinus. Appointment with ENT specialist following Monday. > Result? Not causing the headaches. Not in right place. Large, yes, but > benign and probably of no consequence. Sent to neurologist that Thursday. > Result? Migraines, severe migraines. Put on Amitriptyline as a > preventative. Missed all but one day of last week due to appointments and > has already missed two days of this week. > > Got this email from assoc principal about the incident. > > " I received a call from school nurse at approximatey 11:05 am. She > reported to me that student was in the nurse's office, that he was > belligerent and uncooperative. It was explained to me that student came > into the nurse's office with his hood up. The nurse's assistant, reminded > him of the school rule about hoods and asked him to take the hood down. > Student refused and responded with profanity and refused to comply with the > request. > > She then called for me in the office. When I arrived, student was sitting > calmly with a smirk on his face. My initial impression of his attitude and > demeanor was that he was seeking a conflict. I stood approximately 10-12 > feet from him. I attempted to re-direct him and then later asked him to > remove his hood. He refused and responded with profanity. > > I quietly but firmly explained to him that the rules about profanity and > hoods are in force for all students. He attempted to argue with me and > interrupted me many times. I continued with my explanation. When it > appeared that he was attempting to continue to escalate the situation, I > quit talking to him and asked nurse to contact the mother in an attempt to > diffuse the situation. I determined that my interventions at that point and > time were not going to be successful, so my goal was to maintain him in the > office until the mother arrived. He went on a profane tirade lasting > approximately one minute. We remained silent. Student was not being > reinforced by getting attention from his behavior. He stopped his tirade > and calmed himself down. He sat silently for approximately one minute. He > then decided he was going to leave the nurse's office. He stood up and > announced his intention to do so. I asked him to stay in the office, since > his mother was coming to meet with us and so we could resolve the issues at > hand. He became immediately angry and told me he was leaving anyway. He > went on to say that I had no authority to tell him what to do. > > II stood in a fig-leaf position to protect myself. He came right up towards > me and stopped. He stood silently. I then quietly asked him to return to > his seat until his mother arrived. He immediately began an explosive, > profane outburst. The nurse's assistant worked to clear the other students > from the office, due to his explosive nature and the danger he posed to > others. He paused for a few seconds and pushed me twice. I told him that > his actions were an assault. He threatened me by telling me he would hurt > me if I did not move and then struck me in the left collarbone area twice. > He stated, " There, that's an assault. " > > I backed up to the Main Door of the office to provide him more space. He > chose to come towards me in an aggressive manner. He again pushed me > multiple times at the door opening. At this time school liaison officer > arrived due to the commotion and noise in the office. He asked him to > return to his seat. Student cursed at him and threw two elbows in the > direction of his head. He grabbed his backpack strap and attempted to pull > him off of me. Student swung his left arm at me, then spun around and again > attempted to elbow him . I restrained his right arm and he then restrained > his left arm. Student yelled out that he was being assaulted. Student was > told, by both of us, that we would let go if we chose to regain control of > himself. He de-escalated himself. Student then began to walk back to the > nurse's area. Student then threw a pencil in a violent manner and kicked a > chair twice. He was informed that he would be responsible for any property > he destroyed, and that further aggressive acts would result in him being > restrained. He responded with further profanity. He then chose to > de-escalate himself and sat down in the chair in the Nurse's area. > > At this point law enforcement arrived. Student began to scream at the > officer. The officer attempted to ask me what had happened. He again > interrupted and screamed. The officer felt he was out of control and called > for a backup officer. > > Student will be held accountable for his assaultive and disorderly > behaviors. His behavior and choices put several adults and students in > imminent danger of harm. Several times during this process he was able to > calm himself, only to escalate himself again when it did not appear he was > going to get what he wanted. He appeared to be seeking to control all > aspects of this situation. When hedid not get his way, he chose to > escalate. After he would de-escalate, he would blame his behaviors on the > adults in the situation, and took no ownership of his own choices. When he > did not get sympathy after his explanations, he again chose to escalate in > attempt to engage the adults around him. > > I have a basic understanding of the issues this student is facing. It > appeared to me that he made a number of conscious choices throughout my > dealings with him. No adults were inappropriate with him at any time > throughout this situation. Not all of his choices can be explained away as > a disability. He must be responsible for his choices. " > > When I talked to my son he admitted to getting angry when asked to remove > his hood as his headache was very severe at that time. He also admitted > that he shouldn't have gotten out of control. He feels badly that it > happened yet wishes that they would be more understanding of how much pain > he was in. > > I am frustrated with my son - I am frustrated with the school. I understand > him getting angry - when I think back to some of my more severe migraines I > can see me acting much the same way (without the profanity). I can see me > getting defensive and arguing. In fact I'm sure I have. > > I only hope that this does not mean placement. He was told by the judge in > September (charges resulting from an OCD episode at the middle school last > December - they picked him up and moved him into a time out room during an > OCD attack, resulting in him getting hysterical) that if he had one charge > brought he would be placed. I am dreading this Friday when he will see the > Juvenile Court officer about the two simple assault charges and the > disorderly conduct charge he received for this incident. The officer who > issued the tickets is very understanding and said that we might be able to > get the assault charges dropped due to the diagnosis of severe migraines, > but she wasn't sure. When she came over, the room had to be darkened (8 > a.m.) and the sound muffled or my son was in pain. > > This is a child that I have been telling them for several years is not > socially adept. He has no friends and hasn't had but maybe two in his entire > life - he cannot keep them - doesn't know how to be a friend. He may be 14, > but reacts emotionally and socially at about the 9 -11 year old level. He > opens mouth and whatever is in his mind at the time just comes flooding out, > it's like there is no censorship before it exits his mouth. The school and > I have had several discussions about this - the most recent being the Friday > before the incident when the same associate principal said that he could see > Asperger's like behaviors in my son. (yet when I tried to show the > psychologist hired by the court for an evaluation those same behaviors, they > decided that I was making up the symptoms and was trying to actually create > problems for my son) > > Sorry this is so long, but do any of you have any ideas on what I can take > with me when we see the Juvenile Court officer on Friday morning to help > explain the incident? The behaviors he exhibited were not out of the norm > for him. I have contacted the school counselor and inquired about social > skill training, he has yet to get back to me. My son is convinced that > nothing will happen to him - or so he would like me to believe. In unguarded > moments he cries(sobs) about the possibility of being sent away. The very > concept terrifies him. I am at a loss as to what to do and terrified about > what Friday will bring. > > Thank you for bearing with me for such a long post and thank you for any and > all insights you may have. > > Steph > > _________________________________________________________________ > Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the > FREE McAfee online computer scan! > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 We too are battling to get our son (8) diagnosed with Aspergers and have also been given labels of PDD, dyspraxia, ADD, etc. When I was in 5th and 6th grade I suffered from the same type of headaches. In fact, I would lose sight in one eye during the episodes and had to sit in a dark room for several hours before the pain would subside. It allowed me to develop a form of self medication through bio-feedback where I could force myself into an almost catatonic stupor so that no involuntary muscle movements would trigger a rush of pain, very much like a sensory deprivation tank. Some of the literature I have read recently may link sever reoccurring migraines to a lack or deficiency of magnesium. You may try to add a supplement to his diet to see if it works. Check with the local vitamin store about the best type to buy, magnesium is like calcium in that it must be in the proper form to be effectively absorbed. Calcium is also suspect in migraines and there are many supplements for women that combine calcium, magnesium, and boron for osteoporosis. This could be a worthwhile item to research. Food, chemical, and environmental allergies also cause migraines. Bleach and gasoline odors caused me to get migraines as well as MSG. You may want to have him tested for allergies. My headaches eventually stopped on their own by about the 7th grade but I do suffer from mostly migraines now (25 years later) when I do get a headache. The doctors never had an answer. If your son has been diagnosed with chronic or persistent migraine headaches, you may be able to have him obtain protection through the Americans with Disability Act. Or, it may be possible to leverage some additional accommodations in school by contacting OSHA (Occupational Safety & Health Administration). Although they primarily are involved with protecting employee safety, the fact that the school is denying your son with specific accommodations for a medical condition could be construed as an aggravating factor in making the condition worse. The school should be held to the same standard as an employer to make sure that the workplace is safe. If the school district and the law demands that he be there, they cannot create a negative environment and then force him to comply. I temper this with the opposite view that schools are too overstrained to be considered with " headache proofing " an entire building for one child. My wife is a teacher and one mother complained so vigorously about her daughters allergies that the school was forbidden to paint the rooms, use permanent markers, use certain hand soaps or cleaners, the teachers could not wear perfume, and a whole lot of other wacky restrictions that were enforced on teachers who never even came into contact with this girl. RE: Digest Number 1220 > I have been a part of this group for some time, but have not posted much as > my 14 year old son does not have a definitive AS diagnosis. He shows many > AS-like features, but none of his doctors want to go out on a limb and say > yes or no. He IS diagnosed with ADHD, ODD, OCD, Tourette's, anxiety and > rages. > > Anyway, a couple of weeks ago - two days before Thanksgiving - I sent him to > school against my best judgement. He had missed several days (6-7) in mid > November due to severe headaches, which at the time we did not know the > cause of. He had been under antibiotic treatment for sinus infections since > mid-September. Things were not getting better and he was miserable with the > headaches. We kept going to the doctors, trying to get answers. > > He was tremendously light sensitive during all this time. He went to school > and was wearing his hooded sweatshirt pulled down over his eyes so he could > see at all. Went to nurse to get his noon meds (had just walked out of a > dark classroom - watching a movie - into very bright sunlight). She > demanded that he take down his hood (school rule: no one is allowed to wear > hoods in the school. Supposedly a security issue - so that they can identify > a student if they are causing trouble) He refused, explaining that his eyes > hurt with the lights. She demanded again, he refused again. She called the > associate principal who demanded that he comply with their wishes, he again > refused and got upset, cussing and blustering. I was called and said that I > would be there in five minutes (it was closer to three). In that amount of > time, my son told the assoc. principal that he was going to go out and wait > for me. Associate principal placed himself in between my son and the door > out of the nurses office and told my son that he was going to stay in the > office and de-escalate since he was not going to be allowed to go home until > after I arrived and we all had discussed the situation. My son jabbed his > index finger into the assoc. principals collarbone and said that he was > leaving. Assoc. principal wouldn't move and tells my son that he just > committed an assault. My son jabs him harder and says " no, that is an > assault. " I get there and there are two officers, my son is blithering and > crying he is so upset. I sit on the floor in front of him and try to calm > him down. I finally get him reasonably calm and tell assoc. principal that > I am taking him home. The officer says that she will meet with us on Friday > after Thanksgiving. > > I get my son home, give him pain killers for his headache, place him in a > dark, quiet room and within an hour he is out cold - sleeps for four hours. > He has an appointment with the doctor later that afternoon. Doctor gives > him a script to wear sunglasses in class, so sun sensitivity won't be > problem. They schedule a CT scan of his sinuses. Result? Large cyst in his > left maxillary sinus. Appointment with ENT specialist following Monday. > Result? Not causing the headaches. Not in right place. Large, yes, but > benign and probably of no consequence. Sent to neurologist that Thursday. > Result? Migraines, severe migraines. Put on Amitriptyline as a > preventative. Missed all but one day of last week due to appointments and > has already missed two days of this week. > > Got this email from assoc principal about the incident. > > " I received a call from school nurse at approximatey 11:05 am. She > reported to me that student was in the nurse's office, that he was > belligerent and uncooperative. It was explained to me that student came > into the nurse's office with his hood up. The nurse's assistant, reminded > him of the school rule about hoods and asked him to take the hood down. > Student refused and responded with profanity and refused to comply with the > request. > > She then called for me in the office. When I arrived, student was sitting > calmly with a smirk on his face. My initial impression of his attitude and > demeanor was that he was seeking a conflict. I stood approximately 10-12 > feet from him. I attempted to re-direct him and then later asked him to > remove his hood. He refused and responded with profanity. > > I quietly but firmly explained to him that the rules about profanity and > hoods are in force for all students. He attempted to argue with me and > interrupted me many times. I continued with my explanation. When it > appeared that he was attempting to continue to escalate the situation, I > quit talking to him and asked nurse to contact the mother in an attempt to > diffuse the situation. I determined that my interventions at that point and > time were not going to be successful, so my goal was to maintain him in the > office until the mother arrived. He went on a profane tirade lasting > approximately one minute. We remained silent. Student was not being > reinforced by getting attention from his behavior. He stopped his tirade > and calmed himself down. He sat silently for approximately one minute. He > then decided he was going to leave the nurse's office. He stood up and > announced his intention to do so. I asked him to stay in the office, since > his mother was coming to meet with us and so we could resolve the issues at > hand. He became immediately angry and told me he was leaving anyway. He > went on to say that I had no authority to tell him what to do. > > II stood in a fig-leaf position to protect myself. He came right up towards > me and stopped. He stood silently. I then quietly asked him to return to > his seat until his mother arrived. He immediately began an explosive, > profane outburst. The nurse's assistant worked to clear the other students > from the office, due to his explosive nature and the danger he posed to > others. He paused for a few seconds and pushed me twice. I told him that > his actions were an assault. He threatened me by telling me he would hurt > me if I did not move and then struck me in the left collarbone area twice. > He stated, " There, that's an assault. " > > I backed up to the Main Door of the office to provide him more space. He > chose to come towards me in an aggressive manner. He again pushed me > multiple times at the door opening. At this time school liaison officer > arrived due to the commotion and noise in the office. He asked him to > return to his seat. Student cursed at him and threw two elbows in the > direction of his head. He grabbed his backpack strap and attempted to pull > him off of me. Student swung his left arm at me, then spun around and again > attempted to elbow him . I restrained his right arm and he then restrained > his left arm. Student yelled out that he was being assaulted. Student was > told, by both of us, that we would let go if we chose to regain control of > himself. He de-escalated himself. Student then began to walk back to the > nurse's area. Student then threw a pencil in a violent manner and kicked a > chair twice. He was informed that he would be responsible for any property > he destroyed, and that further aggressive acts would result in him being > restrained. He responded with further profanity. He then chose to > de-escalate himself and sat down in the chair in the Nurse's area. > > At this point law enforcement arrived. Student began to scream at the > officer. The officer attempted to ask me what had happened. He again > interrupted and screamed. The officer felt he was out of control and called > for a backup officer. > > Student will be held accountable for his assaultive and disorderly > behaviors. His behavior and choices put several adults and students in > imminent danger of harm. Several times during this process he was able to > calm himself, only to escalate himself again when it did not appear he was > going to get what he wanted. He appeared to be seeking to control all > aspects of this situation. When hedid not get his way, he chose to > escalate. After he would de-escalate, he would blame his behaviors on the > adults in the situation, and took no ownership of his own choices. When he > did not get sympathy after his explanations, he again chose to escalate in > attempt to engage the adults around him. > > I have a basic understanding of the issues this student is facing. It > appeared to me that he made a number of conscious choices throughout my > dealings with him. No adults were inappropriate with him at any time > throughout this situation. Not all of his choices can be explained away as > a disability. He must be responsible for his choices. " > > When I talked to my son he admitted to getting angry when asked to remove > his hood as his headache was very severe at that time. He also admitted > that he shouldn't have gotten out of control. He feels badly that it > happened yet wishes that they would be more understanding of how much pain > he was in. > > I am frustrated with my son - I am frustrated with the school. I understand > him getting angry - when I think back to some of my more severe migraines I > can see me acting much the same way (without the profanity). I can see me > getting defensive and arguing. In fact I'm sure I have. > > I only hope that this does not mean placement. He was told by the judge in > September (charges resulting from an OCD episode at the middle school last > December - they picked him up and moved him into a time out room during an > OCD attack, resulting in him getting hysterical) that if he had one charge > brought he would be placed. I am dreading this Friday when he will see the > Juvenile Court officer about the two simple assault charges and the > disorderly conduct charge he received for this incident. The officer who > issued the tickets is very understanding and said that we might be able to > get the assault charges dropped due to the diagnosis of severe migraines, > but she wasn't sure. When she came over, the room had to be darkened (8 > a.m.) and the sound muffled or my son was in pain. > > This is a child that I have been telling them for several years is not > socially adept. He has no friends and hasn't had but maybe two in his entire > life - he cannot keep them - doesn't know how to be a friend. He may be 14, > but reacts emotionally and socially at about the 9 -11 year old level. He > opens mouth and whatever is in his mind at the time just comes flooding out, > it's like there is no censorship before it exits his mouth. The school and > I have had several discussions about this - the most recent being the Friday > before the incident when the same associate principal said that he could see > Asperger's like behaviors in my son. (yet when I tried to show the > psychologist hired by the court for an evaluation those same behaviors, they > decided that I was making up the symptoms and was trying to actually create > problems for my son) > > Sorry this is so long, but do any of you have any ideas on what I can take > with me when we see the Juvenile Court officer on Friday morning to help > explain the incident? The behaviors he exhibited were not out of the norm > for him. I have contacted the school counselor and inquired about social > skill training, he has yet to get back to me. My son is convinced that > nothing will happen to him - or so he would like me to believe. In unguarded > moments he cries(sobs) about the possibility of being sent away. The very > concept terrifies him. I am at a loss as to what to do and terrified about > what Friday will bring. > > Thank you for bearing with me for such a long post and thank you for any and > all insights you may have. > > Steph > > _________________________________________________________________ > Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the > FREE McAfee online computer scan! > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 We too are battling to get our son (8) diagnosed with Aspergers and have also been given labels of PDD, dyspraxia, ADD, etc. When I was in 5th and 6th grade I suffered from the same type of headaches. In fact, I would lose sight in one eye during the episodes and had to sit in a dark room for several hours before the pain would subside. It allowed me to develop a form of self medication through bio-feedback where I could force myself into an almost catatonic stupor so that no involuntary muscle movements would trigger a rush of pain, very much like a sensory deprivation tank. Some of the literature I have read recently may link sever reoccurring migraines to a lack or deficiency of magnesium. You may try to add a supplement to his diet to see if it works. Check with the local vitamin store about the best type to buy, magnesium is like calcium in that it must be in the proper form to be effectively absorbed. Calcium is also suspect in migraines and there are many supplements for women that combine calcium, magnesium, and boron for osteoporosis. This could be a worthwhile item to research. Food, chemical, and environmental allergies also cause migraines. Bleach and gasoline odors caused me to get migraines as well as MSG. You may want to have him tested for allergies. My headaches eventually stopped on their own by about the 7th grade but I do suffer from mostly migraines now (25 years later) when I do get a headache. The doctors never had an answer. If your son has been diagnosed with chronic or persistent migraine headaches, you may be able to have him obtain protection through the Americans with Disability Act. Or, it may be possible to leverage some additional accommodations in school by contacting OSHA (Occupational Safety & Health Administration). Although they primarily are involved with protecting employee safety, the fact that the school is denying your son with specific accommodations for a medical condition could be construed as an aggravating factor in making the condition worse. The school should be held to the same standard as an employer to make sure that the workplace is safe. If the school district and the law demands that he be there, they cannot create a negative environment and then force him to comply. I temper this with the opposite view that schools are too overstrained to be considered with " headache proofing " an entire building for one child. My wife is a teacher and one mother complained so vigorously about her daughters allergies that the school was forbidden to paint the rooms, use permanent markers, use certain hand soaps or cleaners, the teachers could not wear perfume, and a whole lot of other wacky restrictions that were enforced on teachers who never even came into contact with this girl. RE: Digest Number 1220 > I have been a part of this group for some time, but have not posted much as > my 14 year old son does not have a definitive AS diagnosis. He shows many > AS-like features, but none of his doctors want to go out on a limb and say > yes or no. He IS diagnosed with ADHD, ODD, OCD, Tourette's, anxiety and > rages. > > Anyway, a couple of weeks ago - two days before Thanksgiving - I sent him to > school against my best judgement. He had missed several days (6-7) in mid > November due to severe headaches, which at the time we did not know the > cause of. He had been under antibiotic treatment for sinus infections since > mid-September. Things were not getting better and he was miserable with the > headaches. We kept going to the doctors, trying to get answers. > > He was tremendously light sensitive during all this time. He went to school > and was wearing his hooded sweatshirt pulled down over his eyes so he could > see at all. Went to nurse to get his noon meds (had just walked out of a > dark classroom - watching a movie - into very bright sunlight). She > demanded that he take down his hood (school rule: no one is allowed to wear > hoods in the school. Supposedly a security issue - so that they can identify > a student if they are causing trouble) He refused, explaining that his eyes > hurt with the lights. She demanded again, he refused again. She called the > associate principal who demanded that he comply with their wishes, he again > refused and got upset, cussing and blustering. I was called and said that I > would be there in five minutes (it was closer to three). In that amount of > time, my son told the assoc. principal that he was going to go out and wait > for me. Associate principal placed himself in between my son and the door > out of the nurses office and told my son that he was going to stay in the > office and de-escalate since he was not going to be allowed to go home until > after I arrived and we all had discussed the situation. My son jabbed his > index finger into the assoc. principals collarbone and said that he was > leaving. Assoc. principal wouldn't move and tells my son that he just > committed an assault. My son jabs him harder and says " no, that is an > assault. " I get there and there are two officers, my son is blithering and > crying he is so upset. I sit on the floor in front of him and try to calm > him down. I finally get him reasonably calm and tell assoc. principal that > I am taking him home. The officer says that she will meet with us on Friday > after Thanksgiving. > > I get my son home, give him pain killers for his headache, place him in a > dark, quiet room and within an hour he is out cold - sleeps for four hours. > He has an appointment with the doctor later that afternoon. Doctor gives > him a script to wear sunglasses in class, so sun sensitivity won't be > problem. They schedule a CT scan of his sinuses. Result? Large cyst in his > left maxillary sinus. Appointment with ENT specialist following Monday. > Result? Not causing the headaches. Not in right place. Large, yes, but > benign and probably of no consequence. Sent to neurologist that Thursday. > Result? Migraines, severe migraines. Put on Amitriptyline as a > preventative. Missed all but one day of last week due to appointments and > has already missed two days of this week. > > Got this email from assoc principal about the incident. > > " I received a call from school nurse at approximatey 11:05 am. She > reported to me that student was in the nurse's office, that he was > belligerent and uncooperative. It was explained to me that student came > into the nurse's office with his hood up. The nurse's assistant, reminded > him of the school rule about hoods and asked him to take the hood down. > Student refused and responded with profanity and refused to comply with the > request. > > She then called for me in the office. When I arrived, student was sitting > calmly with a smirk on his face. My initial impression of his attitude and > demeanor was that he was seeking a conflict. I stood approximately 10-12 > feet from him. I attempted to re-direct him and then later asked him to > remove his hood. He refused and responded with profanity. > > I quietly but firmly explained to him that the rules about profanity and > hoods are in force for all students. He attempted to argue with me and > interrupted me many times. I continued with my explanation. When it > appeared that he was attempting to continue to escalate the situation, I > quit talking to him and asked nurse to contact the mother in an attempt to > diffuse the situation. I determined that my interventions at that point and > time were not going to be successful, so my goal was to maintain him in the > office until the mother arrived. He went on a profane tirade lasting > approximately one minute. We remained silent. Student was not being > reinforced by getting attention from his behavior. He stopped his tirade > and calmed himself down. He sat silently for approximately one minute. He > then decided he was going to leave the nurse's office. He stood up and > announced his intention to do so. I asked him to stay in the office, since > his mother was coming to meet with us and so we could resolve the issues at > hand. He became immediately angry and told me he was leaving anyway. He > went on to say that I had no authority to tell him what to do. > > II stood in a fig-leaf position to protect myself. He came right up towards > me and stopped. He stood silently. I then quietly asked him to return to > his seat until his mother arrived. He immediately began an explosive, > profane outburst. The nurse's assistant worked to clear the other students > from the office, due to his explosive nature and the danger he posed to > others. He paused for a few seconds and pushed me twice. I told him that > his actions were an assault. He threatened me by telling me he would hurt > me if I did not move and then struck me in the left collarbone area twice. > He stated, " There, that's an assault. " > > I backed up to the Main Door of the office to provide him more space. He > chose to come towards me in an aggressive manner. He again pushed me > multiple times at the door opening. At this time school liaison officer > arrived due to the commotion and noise in the office. He asked him to > return to his seat. Student cursed at him and threw two elbows in the > direction of his head. He grabbed his backpack strap and attempted to pull > him off of me. Student swung his left arm at me, then spun around and again > attempted to elbow him . I restrained his right arm and he then restrained > his left arm. Student yelled out that he was being assaulted. Student was > told, by both of us, that we would let go if we chose to regain control of > himself. He de-escalated himself. Student then began to walk back to the > nurse's area. Student then threw a pencil in a violent manner and kicked a > chair twice. He was informed that he would be responsible for any property > he destroyed, and that further aggressive acts would result in him being > restrained. He responded with further profanity. He then chose to > de-escalate himself and sat down in the chair in the Nurse's area. > > At this point law enforcement arrived. Student began to scream at the > officer. The officer attempted to ask me what had happened. He again > interrupted and screamed. The officer felt he was out of control and called > for a backup officer. > > Student will be held accountable for his assaultive and disorderly > behaviors. His behavior and choices put several adults and students in > imminent danger of harm. Several times during this process he was able to > calm himself, only to escalate himself again when it did not appear he was > going to get what he wanted. He appeared to be seeking to control all > aspects of this situation. When hedid not get his way, he chose to > escalate. After he would de-escalate, he would blame his behaviors on the > adults in the situation, and took no ownership of his own choices. When he > did not get sympathy after his explanations, he again chose to escalate in > attempt to engage the adults around him. > > I have a basic understanding of the issues this student is facing. It > appeared to me that he made a number of conscious choices throughout my > dealings with him. No adults were inappropriate with him at any time > throughout this situation. Not all of his choices can be explained away as > a disability. He must be responsible for his choices. " > > When I talked to my son he admitted to getting angry when asked to remove > his hood as his headache was very severe at that time. He also admitted > that he shouldn't have gotten out of control. He feels badly that it > happened yet wishes that they would be more understanding of how much pain > he was in. > > I am frustrated with my son - I am frustrated with the school. I understand > him getting angry - when I think back to some of my more severe migraines I > can see me acting much the same way (without the profanity). I can see me > getting defensive and arguing. In fact I'm sure I have. > > I only hope that this does not mean placement. He was told by the judge in > September (charges resulting from an OCD episode at the middle school last > December - they picked him up and moved him into a time out room during an > OCD attack, resulting in him getting hysterical) that if he had one charge > brought he would be placed. I am dreading this Friday when he will see the > Juvenile Court officer about the two simple assault charges and the > disorderly conduct charge he received for this incident. The officer who > issued the tickets is very understanding and said that we might be able to > get the assault charges dropped due to the diagnosis of severe migraines, > but she wasn't sure. When she came over, the room had to be darkened (8 > a.m.) and the sound muffled or my son was in pain. > > This is a child that I have been telling them for several years is not > socially adept. He has no friends and hasn't had but maybe two in his entire > life - he cannot keep them - doesn't know how to be a friend. He may be 14, > but reacts emotionally and socially at about the 9 -11 year old level. He > opens mouth and whatever is in his mind at the time just comes flooding out, > it's like there is no censorship before it exits his mouth. The school and > I have had several discussions about this - the most recent being the Friday > before the incident when the same associate principal said that he could see > Asperger's like behaviors in my son. (yet when I tried to show the > psychologist hired by the court for an evaluation those same behaviors, they > decided that I was making up the symptoms and was trying to actually create > problems for my son) > > Sorry this is so long, but do any of you have any ideas on what I can take > with me when we see the Juvenile Court officer on Friday morning to help > explain the incident? The behaviors he exhibited were not out of the norm > for him. I have contacted the school counselor and inquired about social > skill training, he has yet to get back to me. My son is convinced that > nothing will happen to him - or so he would like me to believe. In unguarded > moments he cries(sobs) about the possibility of being sent away. The very > concept terrifies him. I am at a loss as to what to do and terrified about > what Friday will bring. > > Thank you for bearing with me for such a long post and thank you for any and > all insights you may have. > > Steph > > _________________________________________________________________ > Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the > FREE McAfee online computer scan! > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 Hi I am sorry but I am unable to give any advice, but I can give you my support and prayers. I hope all goes well! Sherryxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 Hi I am sorry but I am unable to give any advice, but I can give you my support and prayers. I hope all goes well! Sherryxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 First of all, the assoc. principal does not deserve his job. His " report " was filled with misspellings and grammatical errors. How he got out of college English is a mystery to me. I'll bet he barely squeaked it. Second, take with you a statement from your son's psychologist explaining about how some behaviors are out of your son's control and may actually be exacerbated by the actions of adults who don't know better. And explaining how, with a diagnosis of Tourette's, cursing is beyond his control in high-stress situations. Also bring a letter from your neurologist outlining his migraine diagnosis and how painful light and confusion can be to a young migraine sufferer. Third, bring a lawyer and/or an advocate. Child Protection and Advocacy usually has an office in most cities, so call them. They're great, and they have free lawyers if need be who are well-versed in disability and education law. You need not go through this alone. Fact is, the school was dead wrong in their handling of this situation (and, it sounds like, other situations in the past) from first to last. He never should have been asked to take off his hood, once he told the nurse that the light hurt too much. Where did they get this nurse, Auschwitz? He should not have been given the feeling of being closed in or trapped, as when the principal stood in the doorway. His reactions should not be termed " choices, " since in your son's mind he really had no choice. He was hurting, he needed his meds, he was trapped by a person who would not relate to him. The whole thing about not letting him wait outside the nurses' office for you was ridiculous; the assoc. principal " set in his heels " and just decided for no real reason that no, this child was not going to say what he would do. He, the " authority figure " would say what he would do. And all of us parents here know that's the exact wrong tack to take with an autistic. Which your son is, whether his drs. want to say so or not. I cannot believe the police were called in. That was wholly unnecessary, but it's gonna make a real exciting story for the ass. principal to tell his buddies, isn't it? About the so-called disabled kid who tried to push *him* around, and so he called the cops on him. Big man. Makes me sick. We went through this with one of Louie's teachers in high school. The one who pushed Louie till he went into total fear meltdown and pushed him into a row of lockers. Gave him a concussion. He tried to say that Louie meant what he did, that he did it volitionally, that he made a choice to do it. Hogwash. When we demanded a sit-down with all involved (and our advocate from CP & A), we discovered he'd been on Louie's back for at least a week. That he was convinced that if Louie didn't flap, wasn't MR, and could talk, that he could not be autistic. So he ignored the IEP and tried to " slap some sense into this kid. " We were appalled. Unfortunately, the principal of the school didn't want special kids (other than the peppy cheerful ones in wheelchairs, or the cheerful smiling MR kids) on his campus at all. Since he had to have them (pesky law!), he didn't have to llike 'em or give anything they were entitled to unless forced. Thank God for the advocate, because she asked them if they'd ever heard of a compliance hearing or a lawsuit for what they'd done to our son. The teacher got censured and (at our and the advocates insistence) a letter of reprimand outlining everything was placed in his personal file (we saw and approved the letter). So go get 'em. It can be done. Call the advocacy people today, tell them what's been going on, and ask that they be at the juvenile hearing with you. The law says your son must have his own lawyer as well. Find out who this is (public record) and talk to him if at all possible. Tell him what's up with your boy because, dollars to donuts, all he has is the case file. Whatever happens, you can always cry on my shoulder if you want to. It's not that broad, but it's waterproof. Annie, who loves ya annie@... -- " Be the change you wish to see in the world. " -- Anon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 First of all, the assoc. principal does not deserve his job. His " report " was filled with misspellings and grammatical errors. How he got out of college English is a mystery to me. I'll bet he barely squeaked it. Second, take with you a statement from your son's psychologist explaining about how some behaviors are out of your son's control and may actually be exacerbated by the actions of adults who don't know better. And explaining how, with a diagnosis of Tourette's, cursing is beyond his control in high-stress situations. Also bring a letter from your neurologist outlining his migraine diagnosis and how painful light and confusion can be to a young migraine sufferer. Third, bring a lawyer and/or an advocate. Child Protection and Advocacy usually has an office in most cities, so call them. They're great, and they have free lawyers if need be who are well-versed in disability and education law. You need not go through this alone. Fact is, the school was dead wrong in their handling of this situation (and, it sounds like, other situations in the past) from first to last. He never should have been asked to take off his hood, once he told the nurse that the light hurt too much. Where did they get this nurse, Auschwitz? He should not have been given the feeling of being closed in or trapped, as when the principal stood in the doorway. His reactions should not be termed " choices, " since in your son's mind he really had no choice. He was hurting, he needed his meds, he was trapped by a person who would not relate to him. The whole thing about not letting him wait outside the nurses' office for you was ridiculous; the assoc. principal " set in his heels " and just decided for no real reason that no, this child was not going to say what he would do. He, the " authority figure " would say what he would do. And all of us parents here know that's the exact wrong tack to take with an autistic. Which your son is, whether his drs. want to say so or not. I cannot believe the police were called in. That was wholly unnecessary, but it's gonna make a real exciting story for the ass. principal to tell his buddies, isn't it? About the so-called disabled kid who tried to push *him* around, and so he called the cops on him. Big man. Makes me sick. We went through this with one of Louie's teachers in high school. The one who pushed Louie till he went into total fear meltdown and pushed him into a row of lockers. Gave him a concussion. He tried to say that Louie meant what he did, that he did it volitionally, that he made a choice to do it. Hogwash. When we demanded a sit-down with all involved (and our advocate from CP & A), we discovered he'd been on Louie's back for at least a week. That he was convinced that if Louie didn't flap, wasn't MR, and could talk, that he could not be autistic. So he ignored the IEP and tried to " slap some sense into this kid. " We were appalled. Unfortunately, the principal of the school didn't want special kids (other than the peppy cheerful ones in wheelchairs, or the cheerful smiling MR kids) on his campus at all. Since he had to have them (pesky law!), he didn't have to llike 'em or give anything they were entitled to unless forced. Thank God for the advocate, because she asked them if they'd ever heard of a compliance hearing or a lawsuit for what they'd done to our son. The teacher got censured and (at our and the advocates insistence) a letter of reprimand outlining everything was placed in his personal file (we saw and approved the letter). So go get 'em. It can be done. Call the advocacy people today, tell them what's been going on, and ask that they be at the juvenile hearing with you. The law says your son must have his own lawyer as well. Find out who this is (public record) and talk to him if at all possible. Tell him what's up with your boy because, dollars to donuts, all he has is the case file. Whatever happens, you can always cry on my shoulder if you want to. It's not that broad, but it's waterproof. Annie, who loves ya annie@... -- " Be the change you wish to see in the world. " -- Anon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2003 Report Share Posted December 12, 2003 Hi Steph, This reminds me a bit of my dd who at age 13 ran away for an hour after dark and the police were brought in and when they found her and her friend, she totally freaked and was aggressive and uncooperative. Definitely the fight or flight thing...she had to be taken to the hospital amidst kicking and biting too, and had to be restrained. Then transfered to a local behavioral hospital for 2 weeks. It was an awful awful time. To this day she absolutely hates police officers. People think our kids are 'misbehaving' but in reality they are trying to survive...so many just don't understand the challenges our kids face. maralee RE: Digest Number 1220 I have been a part of this group for some time, but have not posted much as my 14 year old son does not have a definitive AS diagnosis. He shows many AS-like features, but none of his doctors want to go out on a limb and say yes or no. He IS diagnosed with ADHD, ODD, OCD, Tourette's, anxiety and rages. Anyway, a couple of weeks ago - two days before Thanksgiving - I sent him to school against my best judgement. He had missed several days (6-7) in mid November due to severe headaches, which at the time we did not know the cause of. He had been under antibiotic treatment for sinus infections since mid-September. Things were not getting better and he was miserable with the headaches. We kept going to the doctors, trying to get answers. He was tremendously light sensitive during all this time. He went to school and was wearing his hooded sweatshirt pulled down over his eyes so he could see at all. Went to nurse to get his noon meds (had just walked out of a dark classroom - watching a movie - into very bright sunlight). She demanded that he take down his hood (school rule: no one is allowed to wear hoods in the school. Supposedly a security issue - so that they can identify a student if they are causing trouble) He refused, explaining that his eyes hurt with the lights. She demanded again, he refused again. She called the associate principal who demanded that he comply with their wishes, he again refused and got upset, cussing and blustering. I was called and said that I would be there in five minutes (it was closer to three). In that amount of time, my son told the assoc. principal that he was going to go out and wait for me. Associate principal placed himself in between my son and the door out of the nurses office and told my son that he was going to stay in the office and de-escalate since he was not going to be allowed to go home until after I arrived and we all had discussed the situation. My son jabbed his index finger into the assoc. principals collarbone and said that he was leaving. Assoc. principal wouldn't move and tells my son that he just committed an assault. My son jabs him harder and says " no, that is an assault. " I get there and there are two officers, my son is blithering and crying he is so upset. I sit on the floor in front of him and try to calm him down. I finally get him reasonably calm and tell assoc. principal that I am taking him home. The officer says that she will meet with us on Friday after Thanksgiving. I get my son home, give him pain killers for his headache, place him in a dark, quiet room and within an hour he is out cold - sleeps for four hours. He has an appointment with the doctor later that afternoon. Doctor gives him a script to wear sunglasses in class, so sun sensitivity won't be problem. They schedule a CT scan of his sinuses. Result? Large cyst in his left maxillary sinus. Appointment with ENT specialist following Monday. Result? Not causing the headaches. Not in right place. Large, yes, but benign and probably of no consequence. Sent to neurologist that Thursday. Result? Migraines, severe migraines. Put on Amitriptyline as a preventative. Missed all but one day of last week due to appointments and has already missed two days of this week. Got this email from assoc principal about the incident. " I received a call from school nurse at approximatey 11:05 am. She reported to me that student was in the nurse's office, that he was belligerent and uncooperative. It was explained to me that student came into the nurse's office with his hood up. The nurse's assistant, reminded him of the school rule about hoods and asked him to take the hood down. Student refused and responded with profanity and refused to comply with the request. She then called for me in the office. When I arrived, student was sitting calmly with a smirk on his face. My initial impression of his attitude and demeanor was that he was seeking a conflict. I stood approximately 10-12 feet from him. I attempted to re-direct him and then later asked him to remove his hood. He refused and responded with profanity. I quietly but firmly explained to him that the rules about profanity and hoods are in force for all students. He attempted to argue with me and interrupted me many times. I continued with my explanation. When it appeared that he was attempting to continue to escalate the situation, I quit talking to him and asked nurse to contact the mother in an attempt to diffuse the situation. I determined that my interventions at that point and time were not going to be successful, so my goal was to maintain him in the office until the mother arrived. He went on a profane tirade lasting approximately one minute. We remained silent. Student was not being reinforced by getting attention from his behavior. He stopped his tirade and calmed himself down. He sat silently for approximately one minute. He then decided he was going to leave the nurse's office. He stood up and announced his intention to do so. I asked him to stay in the office, since his mother was coming to meet with us and so we could resolve the issues at hand. He became immediately angry and told me he was leaving anyway. He went on to say that I had no authority to tell him what to do. II stood in a fig-leaf position to protect myself. He came right up towards me and stopped. He stood silently. I then quietly asked him to return to his seat until his mother arrived. He immediately began an explosive, profane outburst. The nurse's assistant worked to clear the other students from the office, due to his explosive nature and the danger he posed to others. He paused for a few seconds and pushed me twice. I told him that his actions were an assault. He threatened me by telling me he would hurt me if I did not move and then struck me in the left collarbone area twice. He stated, " There, that's an assault. " I backed up to the Main Door of the office to provide him more space. He chose to come towards me in an aggressive manner. He again pushed me multiple times at the door opening. At this time school liaison officer arrived due to the commotion and noise in the office. He asked him to return to his seat. Student cursed at him and threw two elbows in the direction of his head. He grabbed his backpack strap and attempted to pull him off of me. Student swung his left arm at me, then spun around and again attempted to elbow him . I restrained his right arm and he then restrained his left arm. Student yelled out that he was being assaulted. Student was told, by both of us, that we would let go if we chose to regain control of himself. He de-escalated himself. Student then began to walk back to the nurse's area. Student then threw a pencil in a violent manner and kicked a chair twice. He was informed that he would be responsible for any property he destroyed, and that further aggressive acts would result in him being restrained. He responded with further profanity. He then chose to de-escalate himself and sat down in the chair in the Nurse's area. At this point law enforcement arrived. Student began to scream at the officer. The officer attempted to ask me what had happened. He again interrupted and screamed. The officer felt he was out of control and called for a backup officer. Student will be held accountable for his assaultive and disorderly behaviors. His behavior and choices put several adults and students in imminent danger of harm. Several times during this process he was able to calm himself, only to escalate himself again when it did not appear he was going to get what he wanted. He appeared to be seeking to control all aspects of this situation. When hedid not get his way, he chose to escalate. After he would de-escalate, he would blame his behaviors on the adults in the situation, and took no ownership of his own choices. When he did not get sympathy after his explanations, he again chose to escalate in attempt to engage the adults around him. I have a basic understanding of the issues this student is facing. It appeared to me that he made a number of conscious choices throughout my dealings with him. No adults were inappropriate with him at any time throughout this situation. Not all of his choices can be explained away as a disability. He must be responsible for his choices. " When I talked to my son he admitted to getting angry when asked to remove his hood as his headache was very severe at that time. He also admitted that he shouldn't have gotten out of control. He feels badly that it happened yet wishes that they would be more understanding of how much pain he was in. I am frustrated with my son - I am frustrated with the school. I understand him getting angry - when I think back to some of my more severe migraines I can see me acting much the same way (without the profanity). I can see me getting defensive and arguing. In fact I'm sure I have. I only hope that this does not mean placement. He was told by the judge in September (charges resulting from an OCD episode at the middle school last December - they picked him up and moved him into a time out room during an OCD attack, resulting in him getting hysterical) that if he had one charge brought he would be placed. I am dreading this Friday when he will see the Juvenile Court officer about the two simple assault charges and the disorderly conduct charge he received for this incident. The officer who issued the tickets is very understanding and said that we might be able to get the assault charges dropped due to the diagnosis of severe migraines, but she wasn't sure. When she came over, the room had to be darkened (8 a.m.) and the sound muffled or my son was in pain. This is a child that I have been telling them for several years is not socially adept. He has no friends and hasn't had but maybe two in his entire life - he cannot keep them - doesn't know how to be a friend. He may be 14, but reacts emotionally and socially at about the 9 -11 year old level. He opens mouth and whatever is in his mind at the time just comes flooding out, it's like there is no censorship before it exits his mouth. The school and I have had several discussions about this - the most recent being the Friday before the incident when the same associate principal said that he could see Asperger's like behaviors in my son. (yet when I tried to show the psychologist hired by the court for an evaluation those same behaviors, they decided that I was making up the symptoms and was trying to actually create problems for my son) Sorry this is so long, but do any of you have any ideas on what I can take with me when we see the Juvenile Court officer on Friday morning to help explain the incident? The behaviors he exhibited were not out of the norm for him. I have contacted the school counselor and inquired about social skill training, he has yet to get back to me. My son is convinced that nothing will happen to him - or so he would like me to believe. In unguarded moments he cries(sobs) about the possibility of being sent away. The very concept terrifies him. I am at a loss as to what to do and terrified about what Friday will bring. Thank you for bearing with me for such a long post and thank you for any and all insights you may have. Steph _________________________________________________________________ Wonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the FREE McAfee online computer scan! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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