Re: Overhead Squat Progress

[Guest guest]

Matt,

Could it be a stability issue? Check out point number one in this Alwyn

Cosgrove article:

http://www.t-nation.com/article/most_recent/cosgroves_five_ahha_moments

Pérez

Reynosa, Mexico

============================

________________________________

From: Supertraining [mailto:Supertraining ] On

Behalf Of Tentis

Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 1:14 PM

To: Supertraining

Subject: Re: Overhead Squat Progress

Thanks for asking. As far as I can tell the problem is a lack of shoulder

flexibility. As I sqaut I am unable to keep the bar over my center of gravity,

bringing me forward and off balance. I am strong with back squat, front squat,

and cleans, so I do not think a lack of lower body strength is an issue. My

upper body strength, including core, is also pretty good. I think once I improve

my flexibility I will be able to stick the movement. Starting with a broomstick

to practice the motion sounds like a good point to progress from. I had trouble

with just the bar, which makes me feel a little pathetic.

Matt Tentis

Kellogg, MN

=========================

wreckless61a <Johan.Bastiaansen@...

<mailto:Johan.Bastiaansen%40pandora.be> > wrote:

Matt,

What seems to be the problem?

Regards,

Johan Bastiaansen

Hasselt - Belgium

>

> I attempted to include overhead squats in my program lately, but have

> found I am not prepared for this movement. What is an effective

> progression to perform overhead squats safely?

>

> Matt Tentis

> Kellogg, MN

>

[Guest guest]

Matt,

Could it be a stability issue? Check out point number one in this Alwyn

Cosgrove article:

http://www.t-nation.com/article/most_recent/cosgroves_five_ahha_moments

Pérez

Reynosa, Mexico

============================

________________________________

From: Supertraining [mailto:Supertraining ] On

Behalf Of Tentis

Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 1:14 PM

To: Supertraining

Subject: Re: Overhead Squat Progress

Thanks for asking. As far as I can tell the problem is a lack of shoulder

flexibility. As I sqaut I am unable to keep the bar over my center of gravity,

bringing me forward and off balance. I am strong with back squat, front squat,

and cleans, so I do not think a lack of lower body strength is an issue. My

upper body strength, including core, is also pretty good. I think once I improve

my flexibility I will be able to stick the movement. Starting with a broomstick

to practice the motion sounds like a good point to progress from. I had trouble

with just the bar, which makes me feel a little pathetic.

Matt Tentis

Kellogg, MN

=========================

wreckless61a <Johan.Bastiaansen@...

<mailto:Johan.Bastiaansen%40pandora.be> > wrote:

Matt,

What seems to be the problem?

Regards,

Johan Bastiaansen

Hasselt - Belgium

>

> I attempted to include overhead squats in my program lately, but have

> found I am not prepared for this movement. What is an effective

> progression to perform overhead squats safely?

>

> Matt Tentis

> Kellogg, MN

>

[Guest guest]

Matt,

Could it be a stability issue? Check out point number one in this Alwyn

Cosgrove article:

http://www.t-nation.com/article/most_recent/cosgroves_five_ahha_moments

Pérez

Reynosa, Mexico

============================

________________________________

From: Supertraining [mailto:Supertraining ] On

Behalf Of Tentis

Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 1:14 PM

To: Supertraining

Subject: Re: Overhead Squat Progress

Thanks for asking. As far as I can tell the problem is a lack of shoulder

flexibility. As I sqaut I am unable to keep the bar over my center of gravity,

bringing me forward and off balance. I am strong with back squat, front squat,

and cleans, so I do not think a lack of lower body strength is an issue. My

upper body strength, including core, is also pretty good. I think once I improve

my flexibility I will be able to stick the movement. Starting with a broomstick

to practice the motion sounds like a good point to progress from. I had trouble

with just the bar, which makes me feel a little pathetic.

Matt Tentis

Kellogg, MN

=========================

wreckless61a <Johan.Bastiaansen@...

<mailto:Johan.Bastiaansen%40pandora.be> > wrote:

Matt,

What seems to be the problem?

Regards,

Johan Bastiaansen

Hasselt - Belgium

>

> I attempted to include overhead squats in my program lately, but have

> found I am not prepared for this movement. What is an effective

> progression to perform overhead squats safely?

>

> Matt Tentis

> Kellogg, MN

>

[Guest guest]

I can see why someone might want to do overhead squats as a general

conditioning exercise, which may be the point of the discussion here. The

problem I see with it is that it is a pretty radical compromise; i.e., you

are squatting much less than you could if you did some variation of " normal "

squat (squat, box squat, front squat, etc.) and you are working the upper

body with less intensity than you could if you concentrated on a movement

like the press. So, for the purposes of body building or competitive weight

lifting, I would think the overhead squat would be relatively ineffective.

However, as I said earlier, I can see how it might be beneficial for overall

athletic conditioning. Is that the generally accepted value of the overhead

squat, or am I missing something?

Pitruzzello

Chicago, Illinois

> In my opinion, if you need boards under your heels to get adequately

> deep in the overhead squat, you likely have ankle flexibility issues.

> Second, what we've seen also as an obstacle is inadequate thoracic

> mobility rather than shoulder inflexibility. The more kyphotic the

> posture, the harder overhead movements become on the shoulder.

> Interestingly, Chad Waterbury just wrote on this subject today on t-

> nation.com (

> http://www.t-nation.com/article/most_recent/first_person_waterbury

> ). Good luck.

>

> Cowell

> Raleigh, NC

>

> Begin forwarded message:

>

> > From: " wayne crowley " <waynecrowley@... <waynecrowley%40gmail.com>

> >

> > Date: May 5, 2008 1:44:38 PM EDT

>

> > To: Supertraining <Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Subject: Re: Overhead Squat Progress

> > Reply-To: Supertraining <Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com>

>

> >

> > Dan,

> >

> > I like your advise on improving the shoulder flexibility. I am a 49

> > yr old and have been doing weights since high school on and off.

> > Been back in the gym regularly for the last 6 months and using

> > mainly functional exercises. Next focus is improving the shoulder

> > flexibility as I can squat 120% of bodyweight in back squat, but can

> > only get about 50% bodyweight in front squat and cant get the weight

> > back far enough to do a OHS.

> >

> > The reason I write is I have heard mixed messages on using a 2x4 to

> > support the heels. Sure it makes the squat easier but how are you

> > going to progress when you take it away. I agree with you that

> > light weights and full squat technique is the way to gain

> > flexibility. With squats my experience is that proper technique is

> > the most important thing and airsquats, and lightweights with good

> > form is a vital step to progression.

> >

> > Thanks for the suggestions on improving shoulder flexibility

> >

> > Wayne Crowley

> > [Mod: Please don't forget to sign your posts with your full name,

> > city and country of residence- thanks]

> >

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > No progression necessary. Use overhead squat itself . Use a low

> > > weight bar (technique or women)if you cant handle an empty bar

> > correctly.

> > >

> > > Go down only as far as your flexibility allows. Progress slowly

> > > towards full deep. DO NOT add weight on the bar until you can

> > perform

> > > the squat correctly. Rushing is not good, dont rush it. It will

> > come

> > > to you very fast if you start slowly.

> > >

> > > Be always mindful of your back. Keep it hard, even when you learn

> > with

> > > very light weights.

> > >

> > > Use a 2x4 under your heels to help with flexibility initially, but

> > > dont forget about it. When you develop enough flexibility, remove

> > it.

> > >

> > > Work on your full squat flexibility, and shoulder flexibility.

> > > Dislocates with a stick work well.

> > >

> > > If you start to add exercises from weightlifting to your program,

> > and

> > > you are a beginner, do not forget to add to your program some very

> > > simple but time verified exercises: dips, hiperextensions, and

> > plenty

> > > of abdominal work.

> > >

> > > Dan Partelly

> > > Oradea, Romania

[Guest guest]

I can see why someone might want to do overhead squats as a general

conditioning exercise, which may be the point of the discussion here. The

problem I see with it is that it is a pretty radical compromise; i.e., you

are squatting much less than you could if you did some variation of " normal "

squat (squat, box squat, front squat, etc.) and you are working the upper

body with less intensity than you could if you concentrated on a movement

like the press. So, for the purposes of body building or competitive weight

lifting, I would think the overhead squat would be relatively ineffective.

However, as I said earlier, I can see how it might be beneficial for overall

athletic conditioning. Is that the generally accepted value of the overhead

squat, or am I missing something?

Pitruzzello

Chicago, Illinois

> In my opinion, if you need boards under your heels to get adequately

> deep in the overhead squat, you likely have ankle flexibility issues.

> Second, what we've seen also as an obstacle is inadequate thoracic

> mobility rather than shoulder inflexibility. The more kyphotic the

> posture, the harder overhead movements become on the shoulder.

> Interestingly, Chad Waterbury just wrote on this subject today on t-

> nation.com (

> http://www.t-nation.com/article/most_recent/first_person_waterbury

> ). Good luck.

>

> Cowell

> Raleigh, NC

>

> Begin forwarded message:

>

> > From: " wayne crowley " <waynecrowley@... <waynecrowley%40gmail.com>

> >

> > Date: May 5, 2008 1:44:38 PM EDT

>

> > To: Supertraining <Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Subject: Re: Overhead Squat Progress

> > Reply-To: Supertraining <Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com>

>

> >

> > Dan,

> >

> > I like your advise on improving the shoulder flexibility. I am a 49

> > yr old and have been doing weights since high school on and off.

> > Been back in the gym regularly for the last 6 months and using

> > mainly functional exercises. Next focus is improving the shoulder

> > flexibility as I can squat 120% of bodyweight in back squat, but can

> > only get about 50% bodyweight in front squat and cant get the weight

> > back far enough to do a OHS.

> >

> > The reason I write is I have heard mixed messages on using a 2x4 to

> > support the heels. Sure it makes the squat easier but how are you

> > going to progress when you take it away. I agree with you that

> > light weights and full squat technique is the way to gain

> > flexibility. With squats my experience is that proper technique is

> > the most important thing and airsquats, and lightweights with good

> > form is a vital step to progression.

> >

> > Thanks for the suggestions on improving shoulder flexibility

> >

> > Wayne Crowley

> > [Mod: Please don't forget to sign your posts with your full name,

> > city and country of residence- thanks]

> >

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > No progression necessary. Use overhead squat itself . Use a low

> > > weight bar (technique or women)if you cant handle an empty bar

> > correctly.

> > >

> > > Go down only as far as your flexibility allows. Progress slowly

> > > towards full deep. DO NOT add weight on the bar until you can

> > perform

> > > the squat correctly. Rushing is not good, dont rush it. It will

> > come

> > > to you very fast if you start slowly.

> > >

> > > Be always mindful of your back. Keep it hard, even when you learn

> > with

> > > very light weights.

> > >

> > > Use a 2x4 under your heels to help with flexibility initially, but

> > > dont forget about it. When you develop enough flexibility, remove

> > it.

> > >

> > > Work on your full squat flexibility, and shoulder flexibility.

> > > Dislocates with a stick work well.

> > >

> > > If you start to add exercises from weightlifting to your program,

> > and

> > > you are a beginner, do not forget to add to your program some very

> > > simple but time verified exercises: dips, hiperextensions, and

> > plenty

> > > of abdominal work.

> > >

> > > Dan Partelly

> > > Oradea, Romania

[Guest guest]

I can see why someone might want to do overhead squats as a general

conditioning exercise, which may be the point of the discussion here. The

problem I see with it is that it is a pretty radical compromise; i.e., you

are squatting much less than you could if you did some variation of " normal "

squat (squat, box squat, front squat, etc.) and you are working the upper

body with less intensity than you could if you concentrated on a movement

like the press. So, for the purposes of body building or competitive weight

lifting, I would think the overhead squat would be relatively ineffective.

However, as I said earlier, I can see how it might be beneficial for overall

athletic conditioning. Is that the generally accepted value of the overhead

squat, or am I missing something?

Pitruzzello

Chicago, Illinois

> In my opinion, if you need boards under your heels to get adequately

> deep in the overhead squat, you likely have ankle flexibility issues.

> Second, what we've seen also as an obstacle is inadequate thoracic

> mobility rather than shoulder inflexibility. The more kyphotic the

> posture, the harder overhead movements become on the shoulder.

> Interestingly, Chad Waterbury just wrote on this subject today on t-

> nation.com (

> http://www.t-nation.com/article/most_recent/first_person_waterbury

> ). Good luck.

>

> Cowell

> Raleigh, NC

>

> Begin forwarded message:

>

> > From: " wayne crowley " <waynecrowley@... <waynecrowley%40gmail.com>

> >

> > Date: May 5, 2008 1:44:38 PM EDT

>

> > To: Supertraining <Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com>

> > Subject: Re: Overhead Squat Progress

> > Reply-To: Supertraining <Supertraining%40yahoogroups.com>

>

> >

> > Dan,

> >

> > I like your advise on improving the shoulder flexibility. I am a 49

> > yr old and have been doing weights since high school on and off.

> > Been back in the gym regularly for the last 6 months and using

> > mainly functional exercises. Next focus is improving the shoulder

> > flexibility as I can squat 120% of bodyweight in back squat, but can

> > only get about 50% bodyweight in front squat and cant get the weight

> > back far enough to do a OHS.

> >

> > The reason I write is I have heard mixed messages on using a 2x4 to

> > support the heels. Sure it makes the squat easier but how are you

> > going to progress when you take it away. I agree with you that

> > light weights and full squat technique is the way to gain

> > flexibility. With squats my experience is that proper technique is

> > the most important thing and airsquats, and lightweights with good

> > form is a vital step to progression.

> >

> > Thanks for the suggestions on improving shoulder flexibility

> >

> > Wayne Crowley

> > [Mod: Please don't forget to sign your posts with your full name,

> > city and country of residence- thanks]

> >

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > No progression necessary. Use overhead squat itself . Use a low

> > > weight bar (technique or women)if you cant handle an empty bar

> > correctly.

> > >

> > > Go down only as far as your flexibility allows. Progress slowly

> > > towards full deep. DO NOT add weight on the bar until you can

> > perform

> > > the squat correctly. Rushing is not good, dont rush it. It will

> > come

> > > to you very fast if you start slowly.

> > >

> > > Be always mindful of your back. Keep it hard, even when you learn

> > with

> > > very light weights.

> > >

> > > Use a 2x4 under your heels to help with flexibility initially, but

> > > dont forget about it. When you develop enough flexibility, remove

> > it.

> > >

> > > Work on your full squat flexibility, and shoulder flexibility.

> > > Dislocates with a stick work well.

> > >

> > > If you start to add exercises from weightlifting to your program,

> > and

> > > you are a beginner, do not forget to add to your program some very

> > > simple but time verified exercises: dips, hiperextensions, and

> > plenty

> > > of abdominal work.

> > >

> > > Dan Partelly

> > > Oradea, Romania

[Guest guest]

You wrote:

> So, for the purposes of body building or competitive weight

> lifting, I would think the overhead squat would be relatively ineffective.

>

My reply : The overhead squat is in fact very good training for

weightlifting. The the catch and recovery part of the snatch is essentially

the concentric portion of the OH squat and many lifters include the OHS in

their training. One of the many rules of thumb I have heard in

weightlifting circles is that you can snatch what you can OHS for three (now

rules of thumb are not precise so actual info on that would be great). If

this is true, and it is quite close for me, then the current crop of 105kg

lifters are OHS ~200kg for 3. I may never do that as a master but body

weight for reps remains my goal (master lifter).

Yes I agree that you should also include squats as you do lift more weight

and you can develop greater strength, but the OHS (and let me add the OH

lunge) is like you say very good for general devlopment of an athlete,

especially developing shoulder stability and torso stability while improving

hip flexibility. In my mind it helps the body to learn how to transfer leg

drive to the upper body through a stable torso.

OHS are very specific for competitive weightlifters.

Regards

Nick Tatalias

Johannesburg

South Africa

[Guest guest]

You wrote:

> So, for the purposes of body building or competitive weight

> lifting, I would think the overhead squat would be relatively ineffective.

>

My reply : The overhead squat is in fact very good training for

weightlifting. The the catch and recovery part of the snatch is essentially

the concentric portion of the OH squat and many lifters include the OHS in

their training. One of the many rules of thumb I have heard in

weightlifting circles is that you can snatch what you can OHS for three (now

rules of thumb are not precise so actual info on that would be great). If

this is true, and it is quite close for me, then the current crop of 105kg

lifters are OHS ~200kg for 3. I may never do that as a master but body

weight for reps remains my goal (master lifter).

Yes I agree that you should also include squats as you do lift more weight

and you can develop greater strength, but the OHS (and let me add the OH

lunge) is like you say very good for general devlopment of an athlete,

especially developing shoulder stability and torso stability while improving

hip flexibility. In my mind it helps the body to learn how to transfer leg

drive to the upper body through a stable torso.

OHS are very specific for competitive weightlifters.

Regards

Nick Tatalias

Johannesburg

South Africa

[Guest guest]

It is here I'd like to relate my experience with the Overhead squat and Mel's

recommendation for a fellow powerlifter who had a problem to solve.

In association with Mel teaching the snatch, he used the OH squat as a teaching

tool and yes, a method to check your foot positioning and balance. For example,

right after he had me do my first full snatch of 60 kg (132 lbs), he had me

Overhead Squat this. I managed to do this successfully but I remember looking

at him like he'd gone insane first <GRIN> which did NOT get me out of doing the

darned OH sq...he gave me his best " Russian coach " stone face.... So this would

support the point Dan has made below regarding its application in weightlifting.

Mel's point was that if my foot positioning and balance were good in that

snatch, I should be able to execute a proper OH squat right there, without a

shift in feet or anything else. Clearly this is not intended to be loaded like

a back squat! but then, OL is using less weight than PL in such efforts

generally and an OH squat could be done with a dowel of zero weight and still

prove the basic POINT!

With regard to Dan's other points, I will say there was a specific correcting

application for a PL I brought to Mel with a problem. The PL had an awkward and

somewhat dangerous habit of shifting his weight from his heels to his TOES in

the hole! thus getting him dangerously forward and at one point, throwing him

onto his knees and the bar onto the spotter! Mel's recommendation was for this

PL to do OH squats in a warmup - so he did. The PL took up 95 lb OH squats (he

was a 198'er and had a max squat in wraps and belt of 500) and this caused him

to correct the problem that had brought a very frightening moment on the floor

and a injury to a good friend.

So there is 1 application I am aware of for the OH squat in a sport other than

Olymic Weightlifting. It's another iron sport....and it's for a specific

problem. Otherwise it's an occasionally fun move and certainly not to be

performed like you would a back squat, with an escalating weight and for

strength!

All this being said, I think lifters would be wiser to focus more on the snatch,

c & j, squat, deadlift etc for strength gain and use the OH squat as a fun

variation or to train the person to stay on heels....it's mostly a balance move.

The Phantom

aka Schaefer, CMT, CSCS, competing powerlifter

Denver, Colorado, USA

-------------- Original message --------------

1. Overhead squats are NOT done as a replacement for leg strength, and

they aint intended to replace other types of squat.

2. Competitive weightlifting ... just think at the technical snatch

lift, to see the potential value of overhead squat in training. Can

you now see the link with weightlifting ?

3. Weightlifting excluded, there is no major advantage of including

overhead squats in special strength training for other sports. Does

not present any special advantages over other lifts. It may

be part of GPP, if you really want.

Dan Partelly

Oradea, Romania

>

> > In my opinion, if you need boards under your heels to get adequately

> > deep in the overhead squat, you likely have ankle flexibility issues.

> > Second, what we've seen also as an obstacle is inadequate thoracic

> > mobility rather than shoulder inflexibility. The more kyphotic the

> > posture, the harder overhead movements become on the shoulder.

> > Interestingly, Chad Waterbury just wrote on this subject today on t-

> > nation.com (

> > http://www.t-nation.com/article/most_recent/first_person_waterbury

> > ). Good luck.

> >

> > Cowell

> > Raleigh, NC

> >

> > Begin forwarded message:

> >

> > > From: " wayne crowley " <waynecrowley@... <waynecrowley%40gmail.com>

> > >

> > > Date: May 5, 2008 1:44:38 PM EDT

[Guest guest]

It is here I'd like to relate my experience with the Overhead squat and Mel's

recommendation for a fellow powerlifter who had a problem to solve.

In association with Mel teaching the snatch, he used the OH squat as a teaching

tool and yes, a method to check your foot positioning and balance. For example,

right after he had me do my first full snatch of 60 kg (132 lbs), he had me

Overhead Squat this. I managed to do this successfully but I remember looking

at him like he'd gone insane first <GRIN> which did NOT get me out of doing the

darned OH sq...he gave me his best " Russian coach " stone face.... So this would

support the point Dan has made below regarding its application in weightlifting.

Mel's point was that if my foot positioning and balance were good in that

snatch, I should be able to execute a proper OH squat right there, without a

shift in feet or anything else. Clearly this is not intended to be loaded like

a back squat! but then, OL is using less weight than PL in such efforts

generally and an OH squat could be done with a dowel of zero weight and still

prove the basic POINT!

With regard to Dan's other points, I will say there was a specific correcting

application for a PL I brought to Mel with a problem. The PL had an awkward and

somewhat dangerous habit of shifting his weight from his heels to his TOES in

the hole! thus getting him dangerously forward and at one point, throwing him

onto his knees and the bar onto the spotter! Mel's recommendation was for this

PL to do OH squats in a warmup - so he did. The PL took up 95 lb OH squats (he

was a 198'er and had a max squat in wraps and belt of 500) and this caused him

to correct the problem that had brought a very frightening moment on the floor

and a injury to a good friend.

So there is 1 application I am aware of for the OH squat in a sport other than

Olymic Weightlifting. It's another iron sport....and it's for a specific

problem. Otherwise it's an occasionally fun move and certainly not to be

performed like you would a back squat, with an escalating weight and for

strength!

All this being said, I think lifters would be wiser to focus more on the snatch,

c & j, squat, deadlift etc for strength gain and use the OH squat as a fun

variation or to train the person to stay on heels....it's mostly a balance move.

The Phantom

aka Schaefer, CMT, CSCS, competing powerlifter

Denver, Colorado, USA

-------------- Original message --------------

1. Overhead squats are NOT done as a replacement for leg strength, and

they aint intended to replace other types of squat.

2. Competitive weightlifting ... just think at the technical snatch

lift, to see the potential value of overhead squat in training. Can

you now see the link with weightlifting ?

3. Weightlifting excluded, there is no major advantage of including

overhead squats in special strength training for other sports. Does

not present any special advantages over other lifts. It may

be part of GPP, if you really want.

Dan Partelly

Oradea, Romania

>

> > In my opinion, if you need boards under your heels to get adequately

> > deep in the overhead squat, you likely have ankle flexibility issues.

> > Second, what we've seen also as an obstacle is inadequate thoracic

> > mobility rather than shoulder inflexibility. The more kyphotic the

> > posture, the harder overhead movements become on the shoulder.

> > Interestingly, Chad Waterbury just wrote on this subject today on t-

> > nation.com (

> > http://www.t-nation.com/article/most_recent/first_person_waterbury

> > ). Good luck.

> >

> > Cowell

> > Raleigh, NC

> >

> > Begin forwarded message:

> >

> > > From: " wayne crowley " <waynecrowley@... <waynecrowley%40gmail.com>

> > >

> > > Date: May 5, 2008 1:44:38 PM EDT

[Guest guest]

It is here I'd like to relate my experience with the Overhead squat and Mel's

recommendation for a fellow powerlifter who had a problem to solve.

In association with Mel teaching the snatch, he used the OH squat as a teaching

tool and yes, a method to check your foot positioning and balance. For example,

right after he had me do my first full snatch of 60 kg (132 lbs), he had me

Overhead Squat this. I managed to do this successfully but I remember looking

at him like he'd gone insane first <GRIN> which did NOT get me out of doing the

darned OH sq...he gave me his best " Russian coach " stone face.... So this would

support the point Dan has made below regarding its application in weightlifting.

Mel's point was that if my foot positioning and balance were good in that

snatch, I should be able to execute a proper OH squat right there, without a

shift in feet or anything else. Clearly this is not intended to be loaded like

a back squat! but then, OL is using less weight than PL in such efforts

generally and an OH squat could be done with a dowel of zero weight and still

prove the basic POINT!

With regard to Dan's other points, I will say there was a specific correcting

application for a PL I brought to Mel with a problem. The PL had an awkward and

somewhat dangerous habit of shifting his weight from his heels to his TOES in

the hole! thus getting him dangerously forward and at one point, throwing him

onto his knees and the bar onto the spotter! Mel's recommendation was for this

PL to do OH squats in a warmup - so he did. The PL took up 95 lb OH squats (he

was a 198'er and had a max squat in wraps and belt of 500) and this caused him

to correct the problem that had brought a very frightening moment on the floor

and a injury to a good friend.

So there is 1 application I am aware of for the OH squat in a sport other than

Olymic Weightlifting. It's another iron sport....and it's for a specific

problem. Otherwise it's an occasionally fun move and certainly not to be

performed like you would a back squat, with an escalating weight and for

strength!

All this being said, I think lifters would be wiser to focus more on the snatch,

c & j, squat, deadlift etc for strength gain and use the OH squat as a fun

variation or to train the person to stay on heels....it's mostly a balance move.

The Phantom

aka Schaefer, CMT, CSCS, competing powerlifter

Denver, Colorado, USA

-------------- Original message --------------

1. Overhead squats are NOT done as a replacement for leg strength, and

they aint intended to replace other types of squat.

2. Competitive weightlifting ... just think at the technical snatch

lift, to see the potential value of overhead squat in training. Can

you now see the link with weightlifting ?

3. Weightlifting excluded, there is no major advantage of including

overhead squats in special strength training for other sports. Does

not present any special advantages over other lifts. It may

be part of GPP, if you really want.

Dan Partelly

Oradea, Romania

>

> > In my opinion, if you need boards under your heels to get adequately

> > deep in the overhead squat, you likely have ankle flexibility issues.

> > Second, what we've seen also as an obstacle is inadequate thoracic

> > mobility rather than shoulder inflexibility. The more kyphotic the

> > posture, the harder overhead movements become on the shoulder.

> > Interestingly, Chad Waterbury just wrote on this subject today on t-

> > nation.com (

> > http://www.t-nation.com/article/most_recent/first_person_waterbury

> > ). Good luck.

> >

> > Cowell

> > Raleigh, NC

> >

> > Begin forwarded message:

> >

> > > From: " wayne crowley " <waynecrowley@... <waynecrowley%40gmail.com>

> > >

> > > Date: May 5, 2008 1:44:38 PM EDT

[Guest guest]

Placing a board under your heels has nothing to do with ankle flexibility.

Bill

Haveretown, Pa

=============================

Cowell wrote:

In my opinion, if you need boards under your heels to get adequately

deep in the overhead squat, you likely have ankle flexibility issues.

Second, what we've seen also as an obstacle is inadequate thoracic

mobility rather than shoulder inflexibility. The more kyphotic the

posture, the harder overhead movements become on the shoulder.

Interestingly, Chad Waterbury just wrote on this subject today on t-

nation.com (http://www.t-nation.com/article/most_recent/first_person_waterbury

). Good luck.

Cowell

Raleigh, NC