boundaries and needing help

[Guest guest]

It seems like every time I figure out one thing, there is another couple of

things I still don't know. This is frustrating me!!

Yesterday my 14yo dd and I went to the psychologist to talk about whether or not

she's ADD. She just got her depression meds doubled - good grief this scares

me. While there we talked about the things we learned while the niece was here.

We agreed that we had no knowledge of the future when we made the first offer of

help and to not offered to help would have been wrong. We also agreed that we

weren't called to long term care for her and he suggested we write a letter to

her explaining how we reached out to help her on her journey, but that we

wouldn't be going down the road with her in the future.

He explained that he was surprised at my physical response to her and how fast

her moods had pulled me down - that really surprised me! He wants to talk to me

more about my boundaries and how to keep myself safe. Eveidently i don't know

how to keep from giving people power over me. (The example here - my niece came

into the house yesterday and never spoke. When she walked into the kitchen

where I was doing dishes, threw something away and still didn't speak, I asked

her If she planned to say anything. She said she wasn't awake yet and hadn't

had a cup of coffee. I said it would be nice if she spoke.)

My doc says I gave her power there and I still can't figure it out. First these

docs want me to " train " her and then I'm not to say something about basic good

manners. I feel like I'm skating on a pond I don't even recognize.

My husband and kids went hunting this afternoon leaving me alone for the weekend

and I feel so tired I can't even think of what I want to do. I'm bored, tired

and have a dirty house that needs cleaning. Tomorrow I have to take the little

girls back to the home and at least my doc suggested I do it alone without the

niece. I'm glad someone can think. I dread telling her she can't come with me,

but she's not safe for me and I'm not too safe for her either! lol

I'm so depressed. I'm mad because I want to feel good again and I know it's not

going to happen right away. DARN IT!!

Ilene, home alone in TX

[Guest guest]

Big hugs for Ilene: {{{{{{{{Ilene}}}}}}}}

I read once that when you feel depressed, it's because your

body/mind is trying to send you a message -- that you are in

conflict about something, out of harmony. I don't know if this

is true or not, but it might be worth considering.

You wrote:

<<

It seems like every time I figure out one thing, there is

another couple of things I still don't know. This is

frustrating me!!

>>

Tell me about it! I'm beginning to realize that when people say

" life is a journey " this is what they mean! I don't think there

will ever be a point when any of us knows everything there is to

know. It's kind of like the concept of infinity -- you just

never get there! I've found it helpful to concentrate on having

patience and love for myself, and trying not to expect

perfection (i.e., that I should know everything). I tend to be

very harsh on myself when I " slip up " or make a mistake. I

think this comes from my KO upbringing -- I tried to be perfect

because I thought that way I might get my nada's love. I'm

trying to retrain myself to understand that making mistakes and

not knowing everything is, in fact, NORMAL!! This is not an

easy task (see my recent posts on perfection), but I have faith

that I will eventually get there. NO ONE knows everything, and

it is normal to " screw up " , make mistakes and be less than

perfect. And if you have healthy people in your life, they are

forgiving and accomodating of this process.

<<

While there we talked about the things we learned while the

niece was here.

>>

I think this is really important. We need to use our " mistakes "

to LEARN. If we don't learn, then the pain is in vain, but if

we can learn from them, then we are moving down the path. I

think the idea of telling your niece that you were there to help

on her journey, but you won't be accompanying her further sounds

very good. BTW -- is she still living with you? Somehow I was

under the impression that she had been moved out, but I may be

mistaken.

<<

He explained that he was surprised at my physical response to

her and how fast her moods had pulled me down - that really

surprised me! He wants to talk to me more about my boundaries

and how to keep myself safe.

>>

This is just my opinion, but I wonder if your moods may have

been greatly affected by her because you are very empathetic. I

wonder if she exacerbated your depression because SHE is

depressed (I'm assuming she is), and you " tuned into " her

feelings. Perhaps she feels very trapped and sad about her

current life situation, and you took on these feelings. Now, it

would be " normal " for someone to feel sad about anyone in her

situation (especially a family member), but I can see it having

a particularly powerful effect on you, as a KO. I know that I

am very empathetic, and as a result, I tend to almost take on

the moods of people around me. I am so good at " feeling their

pain " that it becomes MY pain. This can be a difficult thing to

address, but I find the most important thing for me is to be

able to _identify_ when I am doing this. If I am aware that I'm

doing it, it becomes much easier to STOP. And it's okay for you

to feel sad (your OWN sadness) because your niece is having

these problems, but you do NOT have to shoulder HER burden, HER

helplessness, HER hopelessness, HER depression, HER problems.

These are for HER to work out. In fact, if you tried to

" rescue " her, you would actually be hurting her, because she

would not learn how to care for herself.

I agree that working on boundaries and learning to keep yourself

safe will help here. When we take on the feelings of others

(call it super-empathy, co-dependence, whatever), we blur the

line between ourselves and others, and we start owning things

that aren't really ours. Working on where we end and others

begin (e.g., boundaries) should help with this process.

<<

Eveidently i don't know how to keep from giving people power

over me. (The example here - my niece came into the house

yesterday and never spoke. When she walked into the kitchen

where I was doing dishes, threw something away and still didn't

speak, I asked her If she planned to say anything. She said she

wasn't awake yet and hadn't had a cup of coffee. I said it

would be nice if she spoke.) My doc says I gave her power there

and I still can't figure it out.

>>

I'm a little uncertain about this too, but I have some ideas.

I would ask your doc to clarify what he meant, though. I'm

wondering if he was trying to say that by _asking_ if she

planned on saying anything, you were giving away your power.

It's clear that you thought she should say something (as a

courtesy), but you didn't TELL her that was how you felt (until

she backed you into a corner by not giving the desired response,

which is when you finally told her it would be nice if she

spoke). By asking her, you were able to tell her what you

wanted in a kind of passive-agressive way, without necessarily

confronting her. But you weren't setting a boundary; you

weren't TELLING her what you expected... and maybe this is what

he meant by giving your power away. Perhaps your doc was trying

to say that you would have kept your power if you had set a

boundary and said what is and isn't acceptable behavior (e.g.,

" I expect, out of common courtesy, that you will acknowledge me

in some way when you walk into the room. " ). And even if she

refused to comply, you still made your expectations/needs very

clear, and you could follow up with consequences if desired.

<<

My husband and kids went hunting this afternoon leaving me alone

for the weekend and I feel so tired I can't even think of what I

want to do. I'm bored, tired and have a dirty house that needs

cleaning.

>>

I hate when I have things I'm " supposed " to do, but I don't feel

like it. I still struggle with this, but I try to have patience

with myself, and believe that maybe I just need to sit on the

couch for a couple of days and think about things. Or sometimes

I just need to do something fun, like see a movie, go out with

friends or read a good book. Perhaps this time alone would be a

good opportunity for you to do this. Sometimes it helps for me

to journal during these times -- getting things down in writing

helps me process things and learn more about the way I'm

feeling. And the world won't come to an end if the floor

doesn't get vacuumed! And don't be afraid to ask for extra

help/support from your hubby and kids when they return if you

feel you need it (e.g., " I know I didn't get the house cleaned

over the weekend, but I had some other things I needed to do.

Would you guys be willing to pitch in and help me out? " ) Your

process is IMPORTANT, and it's okay to set time aside for it --

don't forget that.

Best wishes,

Anon

--- ilene@... wrote:

>

>

> It seems like every time I figure out one thing, there is

> another couple of

> things I still don't know. This is frustrating me!!

> Yesterday my 14yo dd and I went to the psychologist to talk

> about whether or not

> she's ADD. She just got her depression meds doubled - good

> grief this scares

> me. While there we talked about the things we learned while

> the niece was here.

> We agreed that we had no knowledge of the future when we made

> the first offer of

> help and to not offered to help would have been wrong. We

> also agreed that we

> weren't called to long term care for her and he suggested we

> write a letter to

> her explaining how we reached out to help her on her journey,

> but that we

> wouldn't be going down the road with her in the future.

> He explained that he was surprised at my physical response to

> her and how fast

> her moods had pulled me down - that really surprised me! He

> wants to talk to me

> more about my boundaries and how to keep myself safe.

> Eveidently i don't know

> how to keep from giving people power over me. (The example

> here - my niece came

> into the house yesterday and never spoke. When she walked

> into the kitchen

> where I was doing dishes, threw something away and still

> didn't speak, I asked

> her If she planned to say anything. She said she wasn't awake

> yet and hadn't

> had a cup of coffee. I said it would be nice if she spoke.)

> My doc says I gave her power there and I still can't figure it

> out. First these

> docs want me to " train " her and then I'm not to say something

> about basic good

> manners. I feel like I'm skating on a pond I don't even

> recognize.

> My husband and kids went hunting this afternoon leaving me

> alone for the weekend

> and I feel so tired I can't even think of what I want to do.

> I'm bored, tired

> and have a dirty house that needs cleaning. Tomorrow I have

> to take the little

> girls back to the home and at least my doc suggested I do it

> alone without the

> niece. I'm glad someone can think. I dread telling her she

> can't come with me,

> but she's not safe for me and I'm not too safe for her either!

> lol

> I'm so depressed. I'm mad because I want to feel good again

> and I know it's not

> going to happen right away. DARN IT!!

>

> Ilene, home alone in TX

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Big hugs for Ilene: {{{{{{{{Ilene}}}}}}}}

I read once that when you feel depressed, it's because your

body/mind is trying to send you a message -- that you are in

conflict about something, out of harmony. I don't know if this

is true or not, but it might be worth considering.

You wrote:

<<

It seems like every time I figure out one thing, there is

another couple of things I still don't know. This is

frustrating me!!

>>

Tell me about it! I'm beginning to realize that when people say

" life is a journey " this is what they mean! I don't think there

will ever be a point when any of us knows everything there is to

know. It's kind of like the concept of infinity -- you just

never get there! I've found it helpful to concentrate on having

patience and love for myself, and trying not to expect

perfection (i.e., that I should know everything). I tend to be

very harsh on myself when I " slip up " or make a mistake. I

think this comes from my KO upbringing -- I tried to be perfect

because I thought that way I might get my nada's love. I'm

trying to retrain myself to understand that making mistakes and

not knowing everything is, in fact, NORMAL!! This is not an

easy task (see my recent posts on perfection), but I have faith

that I will eventually get there. NO ONE knows everything, and

it is normal to " screw up " , make mistakes and be less than

perfect. And if you have healthy people in your life, they are

forgiving and accomodating of this process.

<<

While there we talked about the things we learned while the

niece was here.

>>

I think this is really important. We need to use our " mistakes "

to LEARN. If we don't learn, then the pain is in vain, but if

we can learn from them, then we are moving down the path. I

think the idea of telling your niece that you were there to help

on her journey, but you won't be accompanying her further sounds

very good. BTW -- is she still living with you? Somehow I was

under the impression that she had been moved out, but I may be

mistaken.

<<

He explained that he was surprised at my physical response to

her and how fast her moods had pulled me down - that really

surprised me! He wants to talk to me more about my boundaries

and how to keep myself safe.

>>

This is just my opinion, but I wonder if your moods may have

been greatly affected by her because you are very empathetic. I

wonder if she exacerbated your depression because SHE is

depressed (I'm assuming she is), and you " tuned into " her

feelings. Perhaps she feels very trapped and sad about her

current life situation, and you took on these feelings. Now, it

would be " normal " for someone to feel sad about anyone in her

situation (especially a family member), but I can see it having

a particularly powerful effect on you, as a KO. I know that I

am very empathetic, and as a result, I tend to almost take on

the moods of people around me. I am so good at " feeling their

pain " that it becomes MY pain. This can be a difficult thing to

address, but I find the most important thing for me is to be

able to _identify_ when I am doing this. If I am aware that I'm

doing it, it becomes much easier to STOP. And it's okay for you

to feel sad (your OWN sadness) because your niece is having

these problems, but you do NOT have to shoulder HER burden, HER

helplessness, HER hopelessness, HER depression, HER problems.

These are for HER to work out. In fact, if you tried to

" rescue " her, you would actually be hurting her, because she

would not learn how to care for herself.

I agree that working on boundaries and learning to keep yourself

safe will help here. When we take on the feelings of others

(call it super-empathy, co-dependence, whatever), we blur the

line between ourselves and others, and we start owning things

that aren't really ours. Working on where we end and others

begin (e.g., boundaries) should help with this process.

<<

Eveidently i don't know how to keep from giving people power

over me. (The example here - my niece came into the house

yesterday and never spoke. When she walked into the kitchen

where I was doing dishes, threw something away and still didn't

speak, I asked her If she planned to say anything. She said she

wasn't awake yet and hadn't had a cup of coffee. I said it

would be nice if she spoke.) My doc says I gave her power there

and I still can't figure it out.

>>

I'm a little uncertain about this too, but I have some ideas.

I would ask your doc to clarify what he meant, though. I'm

wondering if he was trying to say that by _asking_ if she

planned on saying anything, you were giving away your power.

It's clear that you thought she should say something (as a

courtesy), but you didn't TELL her that was how you felt (until

she backed you into a corner by not giving the desired response,

which is when you finally told her it would be nice if she

spoke). By asking her, you were able to tell her what you

wanted in a kind of passive-agressive way, without necessarily

confronting her. But you weren't setting a boundary; you

weren't TELLING her what you expected... and maybe this is what

he meant by giving your power away. Perhaps your doc was trying

to say that you would have kept your power if you had set a

boundary and said what is and isn't acceptable behavior (e.g.,

" I expect, out of common courtesy, that you will acknowledge me

in some way when you walk into the room. " ). And even if she

refused to comply, you still made your expectations/needs very

clear, and you could follow up with consequences if desired.

<<

My husband and kids went hunting this afternoon leaving me alone

for the weekend and I feel so tired I can't even think of what I

want to do. I'm bored, tired and have a dirty house that needs

cleaning.

>>

I hate when I have things I'm " supposed " to do, but I don't feel

like it. I still struggle with this, but I try to have patience

with myself, and believe that maybe I just need to sit on the

couch for a couple of days and think about things. Or sometimes

I just need to do something fun, like see a movie, go out with

friends or read a good book. Perhaps this time alone would be a

good opportunity for you to do this. Sometimes it helps for me

to journal during these times -- getting things down in writing

helps me process things and learn more about the way I'm

feeling. And the world won't come to an end if the floor

doesn't get vacuumed! And don't be afraid to ask for extra

help/support from your hubby and kids when they return if you

feel you need it (e.g., " I know I didn't get the house cleaned

over the weekend, but I had some other things I needed to do.

Would you guys be willing to pitch in and help me out? " ) Your

process is IMPORTANT, and it's okay to set time aside for it --

don't forget that.

Best wishes,

Anon

--- ilene@... wrote:

>

>

> It seems like every time I figure out one thing, there is

> another couple of

> things I still don't know. This is frustrating me!!

> Yesterday my 14yo dd and I went to the psychologist to talk

> about whether or not

> she's ADD. She just got her depression meds doubled - good

> grief this scares

> me. While there we talked about the things we learned while

> the niece was here.

> We agreed that we had no knowledge of the future when we made

> the first offer of

> help and to not offered to help would have been wrong. We

> also agreed that we

> weren't called to long term care for her and he suggested we

> write a letter to

> her explaining how we reached out to help her on her journey,

> but that we

> wouldn't be going down the road with her in the future.

> He explained that he was surprised at my physical response to

> her and how fast

> her moods had pulled me down - that really surprised me! He

> wants to talk to me

> more about my boundaries and how to keep myself safe.

> Eveidently i don't know

> how to keep from giving people power over me. (The example

> here - my niece came

> into the house yesterday and never spoke. When she walked

> into the kitchen

> where I was doing dishes, threw something away and still

> didn't speak, I asked

> her If she planned to say anything. She said she wasn't awake

> yet and hadn't

> had a cup of coffee. I said it would be nice if she spoke.)

> My doc says I gave her power there and I still can't figure it

> out. First these

> docs want me to " train " her and then I'm not to say something

> about basic good

> manners. I feel like I'm skating on a pond I don't even

> recognize.

> My husband and kids went hunting this afternoon leaving me

> alone for the weekend

> and I feel so tired I can't even think of what I want to do.

> I'm bored, tired

> and have a dirty house that needs cleaning. Tomorrow I have

> to take the little

> girls back to the home and at least my doc suggested I do it

> alone without the

> niece. I'm glad someone can think. I dread telling her she

> can't come with me,

> but she's not safe for me and I'm not too safe for her either!

> lol

> I'm so depressed. I'm mad because I want to feel good again

> and I know it's not

> going to happen right away. DARN IT!!

>

> Ilene, home alone in TX

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Big hugs for Ilene: {{{{{{{{Ilene}}}}}}}}

I read once that when you feel depressed, it's because your

body/mind is trying to send you a message -- that you are in

conflict about something, out of harmony. I don't know if this

is true or not, but it might be worth considering.

You wrote:

<<

It seems like every time I figure out one thing, there is

another couple of things I still don't know. This is

frustrating me!!

>>

Tell me about it! I'm beginning to realize that when people say

" life is a journey " this is what they mean! I don't think there

will ever be a point when any of us knows everything there is to

know. It's kind of like the concept of infinity -- you just

never get there! I've found it helpful to concentrate on having

patience and love for myself, and trying not to expect

perfection (i.e., that I should know everything). I tend to be

very harsh on myself when I " slip up " or make a mistake. I

think this comes from my KO upbringing -- I tried to be perfect

because I thought that way I might get my nada's love. I'm

trying to retrain myself to understand that making mistakes and

not knowing everything is, in fact, NORMAL!! This is not an

easy task (see my recent posts on perfection), but I have faith

that I will eventually get there. NO ONE knows everything, and

it is normal to " screw up " , make mistakes and be less than

perfect. And if you have healthy people in your life, they are

forgiving and accomodating of this process.

<<

While there we talked about the things we learned while the

niece was here.

>>

I think this is really important. We need to use our " mistakes "

to LEARN. If we don't learn, then the pain is in vain, but if

we can learn from them, then we are moving down the path. I

think the idea of telling your niece that you were there to help

on her journey, but you won't be accompanying her further sounds

very good. BTW -- is she still living with you? Somehow I was

under the impression that she had been moved out, but I may be

mistaken.

<<

He explained that he was surprised at my physical response to

her and how fast her moods had pulled me down - that really

surprised me! He wants to talk to me more about my boundaries

and how to keep myself safe.

>>

This is just my opinion, but I wonder if your moods may have

been greatly affected by her because you are very empathetic. I

wonder if she exacerbated your depression because SHE is

depressed (I'm assuming she is), and you " tuned into " her

feelings. Perhaps she feels very trapped and sad about her

current life situation, and you took on these feelings. Now, it

would be " normal " for someone to feel sad about anyone in her

situation (especially a family member), but I can see it having

a particularly powerful effect on you, as a KO. I know that I

am very empathetic, and as a result, I tend to almost take on

the moods of people around me. I am so good at " feeling their

pain " that it becomes MY pain. This can be a difficult thing to

address, but I find the most important thing for me is to be

able to _identify_ when I am doing this. If I am aware that I'm

doing it, it becomes much easier to STOP. And it's okay for you

to feel sad (your OWN sadness) because your niece is having

these problems, but you do NOT have to shoulder HER burden, HER

helplessness, HER hopelessness, HER depression, HER problems.

These are for HER to work out. In fact, if you tried to

" rescue " her, you would actually be hurting her, because she

would not learn how to care for herself.

I agree that working on boundaries and learning to keep yourself

safe will help here. When we take on the feelings of others

(call it super-empathy, co-dependence, whatever), we blur the

line between ourselves and others, and we start owning things

that aren't really ours. Working on where we end and others

begin (e.g., boundaries) should help with this process.

<<

Eveidently i don't know how to keep from giving people power

over me. (The example here - my niece came into the house

yesterday and never spoke. When she walked into the kitchen

where I was doing dishes, threw something away and still didn't

speak, I asked her If she planned to say anything. She said she

wasn't awake yet and hadn't had a cup of coffee. I said it

would be nice if she spoke.) My doc says I gave her power there

and I still can't figure it out.

>>

I'm a little uncertain about this too, but I have some ideas.

I would ask your doc to clarify what he meant, though. I'm

wondering if he was trying to say that by _asking_ if she

planned on saying anything, you were giving away your power.

It's clear that you thought she should say something (as a

courtesy), but you didn't TELL her that was how you felt (until

she backed you into a corner by not giving the desired response,

which is when you finally told her it would be nice if she

spoke). By asking her, you were able to tell her what you

wanted in a kind of passive-agressive way, without necessarily

confronting her. But you weren't setting a boundary; you

weren't TELLING her what you expected... and maybe this is what

he meant by giving your power away. Perhaps your doc was trying

to say that you would have kept your power if you had set a

boundary and said what is and isn't acceptable behavior (e.g.,

" I expect, out of common courtesy, that you will acknowledge me

in some way when you walk into the room. " ). And even if she

refused to comply, you still made your expectations/needs very

clear, and you could follow up with consequences if desired.

<<

My husband and kids went hunting this afternoon leaving me alone

for the weekend and I feel so tired I can't even think of what I

want to do. I'm bored, tired and have a dirty house that needs

cleaning.

>>

I hate when I have things I'm " supposed " to do, but I don't feel

like it. I still struggle with this, but I try to have patience

with myself, and believe that maybe I just need to sit on the

couch for a couple of days and think about things. Or sometimes

I just need to do something fun, like see a movie, go out with

friends or read a good book. Perhaps this time alone would be a

good opportunity for you to do this. Sometimes it helps for me

to journal during these times -- getting things down in writing

helps me process things and learn more about the way I'm

feeling. And the world won't come to an end if the floor

doesn't get vacuumed! And don't be afraid to ask for extra

help/support from your hubby and kids when they return if you

feel you need it (e.g., " I know I didn't get the house cleaned

over the weekend, but I had some other things I needed to do.

Would you guys be willing to pitch in and help me out? " ) Your

process is IMPORTANT, and it's okay to set time aside for it --

don't forget that.

Best wishes,

Anon

--- ilene@... wrote:

>

>

> It seems like every time I figure out one thing, there is

> another couple of

> things I still don't know. This is frustrating me!!

> Yesterday my 14yo dd and I went to the psychologist to talk

> about whether or not

> she's ADD. She just got her depression meds doubled - good

> grief this scares

> me. While there we talked about the things we learned while

> the niece was here.

> We agreed that we had no knowledge of the future when we made

> the first offer of

> help and to not offered to help would have been wrong. We

> also agreed that we

> weren't called to long term care for her and he suggested we

> write a letter to

> her explaining how we reached out to help her on her journey,

> but that we

> wouldn't be going down the road with her in the future.

> He explained that he was surprised at my physical response to

> her and how fast

> her moods had pulled me down - that really surprised me! He

> wants to talk to me

> more about my boundaries and how to keep myself safe.

> Eveidently i don't know

> how to keep from giving people power over me. (The example

> here - my niece came

> into the house yesterday and never spoke. When she walked

> into the kitchen

> where I was doing dishes, threw something away and still

> didn't speak, I asked

> her If she planned to say anything. She said she wasn't awake

> yet and hadn't

> had a cup of coffee. I said it would be nice if she spoke.)

> My doc says I gave her power there and I still can't figure it

> out. First these

> docs want me to " train " her and then I'm not to say something

> about basic good

> manners. I feel like I'm skating on a pond I don't even

> recognize.

> My husband and kids went hunting this afternoon leaving me

> alone for the weekend

> and I feel so tired I can't even think of what I want to do.

> I'm bored, tired

> and have a dirty house that needs cleaning. Tomorrow I have

> to take the little

> girls back to the home and at least my doc suggested I do it

> alone without the

> niece. I'm glad someone can think. I dread telling her she

> can't come with me,

> but she's not safe for me and I'm not too safe for her either!

> lol

> I'm so depressed. I'm mad because I want to feel good again

> and I know it's not

> going to happen right away. DARN IT!!

>

> Ilene, home alone in TX

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Anon, Thanks! You always have something encouraging to say or some insight.

We did move the niece out, but she and her two girls were here Xmas eve and day

and then again the 27th because of various appointments she had to attend to. I

think you're right about saying " I expect you to .... " as opposed to " aren't you

going to speak " . I seem to speak that way alot - that must be a KO flea that

needs flea powder and maybe some doctoring.

I'll bring that up at the next meeting.

I hadn't really thought of it as empathy, but maybe that is what caused me to

cycle with her. It's wierd, that much I know.

I have always identified with others feelings - pass that flea powder again! I

do feel extremely sorry for her. I can't explain it too well, but it seems she

walks around with a big cloud over her head - you can almost see it. - sort of

the feeling it's about to rain because you can feel the humidity.

Unfortunately, I never really found a safe group like this one to talk about the

bipolar issues. I know I want more info, but either I'm not expressing myself

well enough or no one wants to discuss the illness very much. Oh well, I give

it another month and hopefully she'll be in a half-way house and I'll be on my

way to better things to do.

Hugs,

Ilene

[Guest guest]

--- ilene@... wrote:

>

> He explained that he was surprised at my physical

> response to her and how fast

> her moods had pulled me down - that really surprised

> me! He wants to talk to me

> more about my boundaries and how to keep myself

> safe. Eveidently i don't know

> how to keep from giving people power over me.

Not *all* people and not *all* instances - and stop

beating yourself up! We come across boundaries as we

stumble across them. We can't automatically assess

each and every boundary we need. We come across them

through each individual interaction. That's how we

learn. It doesn't mean you're a complete failure and

that you don't already have some boundaries in place.

This is just *one* more.

(The

> example here - my niece came

> into the house yesterday and never spoke. When she

> walked into the kitchen

> where I was doing dishes, threw something away and

> still didn't speak, I asked

> her If she planned to say anything. She said she

> wasn't awake yet and hadn't

> had a cup of coffee. I said it would be nice if she

> spoke.)

> My doc says I gave her power there and I still can't

> figure it out. First these

> docs want me to " train " her and then I'm not to say

> something about basic good

> manners. I feel like I'm skating on a pond I don't

> even recognize.

Yeah, it's tricky stuff... a whole new way to think

and act upon things. Yuk. That remapping is a

complicated and convoluted mess of stuff. That's

exactly what I need to work on too. Language and the

use of it. So hopefully I say the things below

correctly...

I think what he's possibly saying here is not to try

to necessarily fix her by fixing her but by fixing

yourself. (In that, it also sets an example and

teaches her another way to interact. It also lets her

know, this button doesn't work on Aunt Ilene anymore.

It can possibly show her an alternative option, such

as waking up in the morning and addressing you first!)

For instance, rather than bringing to attention her

actions, you might have said, " Good Morning Neice! "

Thus, maintaining your own power and she is then left

with a choice of whether to respond or not. Your well

being does not depend upon whether she speaks to you

or not. In the statement you made to her, your well

being was then dependent on her speaking to you.

You've given her power over you... You've engaged and

tried to fix someone else in order to appease your own

emotional pain. This is codependency.

So you now know that being ignored brings up illease

within you. It pushes your antagonistical hot button.

So this is now where a boundary needs to be placed.

Ilene now draws the line - she recognizes and now

works to determine the appropriate response and sets

the boundary. She might say, " Good Morning Neice! " and

if said neice responds by saying what she said, Ilene

might then say " Suit yourself, there's the coffee. "

because she knows this is not about her. If Ilenes

boundary does not allow for the excuse or the other

persons (sincere?) morning fog, then she may address

that as a rule not to be tolerated in her home.

(That's pretty rigid though - and my initial

boundaries were very rigid.) So then to, in places

where I thought boundaries needed to be, I've learned

that it's simply been a matter of letting some things

go. In either instance, a degree of detachment is

necessary.

Then sometimes too, it's not what you say but how you

say it that gives power away. Intentions may be all

well and good, but it's how we convey ourselves that

makes the difference as to the outcome. I mention

intentions, b/c your intentions are good. Your neice

was rude and you wanted to bring that to her

attention. That's good - but it's the way it was

conveyed that made the difference.

Whatever instance, don't beat yourself up... You're

really doing great! You've got all the keys in your

hand. All of these seemingly minor interactions are

the keys to the larger picture... Freedom from

codpendency and larger peace.

I hope I'm not out of line. I'm speaking from personal

experience... I think from my experience that I

understand your frustration too. I know what it's like

to think you're doing okay only to find - arghh!

There's something else??? Don't split yourself because

of *one* thing, integrate it into the larger picture.

And then too, ask your therapists who are working with

you and your neice to clarify. They're asking you to

teach her and then stating you're not doing it right.

What IS doing it right then? I'd be confused too...

And then, what qualifies Ilene to train your neice?

Maybe you need to ask what the qualifications are that

are necessary to do this. I mean, heck, you're not a

trained therapist, you're a KO. That's a tough

position to be in, in itself - let alone working with

someone else who has issues (AND) who doesn't appear

to be actively working on them either...

Gheesh! Give yourself a break...!

Hugs,

Cyndie

Chugga-chugging, Chugga-chugging up and around the

bends... getting there, getting there...

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

this boundary business is new to me too. This has only been

going since October and that is not a lot of time.

Anyway...over Christmas I let a boundary down by talking to my

cousin,but realized that it needs to go up bec. it does not feel

" safe " to speak to her.

So I've filtered her email address toward my husband in the

event that she tries to contact me. I just don't feel safe about it.

So until I do, it stays in place. I just cannot talk to most of the

FOO. Oddly, I released a boundary with my oldest sister, who

won't talk about nada bec. it is too uncomfortable for her. I had it

in place in Oct (the boundary) but after a bit knew that she was in

such denial that she wouldn't " go there " but liked to talk about

her work (she's a nurse), her house (she like to decorate and

garden) and her kids. And she cannot ever talk for more than 5

minutes. So that works out. At the beginning I did not feel

" unsafe " with my cousin, but now I do, so sis and cousin switch

places on the boundary chart.

it works for me......the boundaries are really what give me peace

and distance from it all so I can work on my own stuff...

I noticed my insomnia came back when I was in contact with the

secret FOO agents over Christmas. Filtering cousin's email

made me feel relaxed deep inside.

20 years ago I never thought I would have had this option of

being in charge of who comes inside the boundary.

Kathleen

[Guest guest]

this boundary business is new to me too. This has only been

going since October and that is not a lot of time.

Anyway...over Christmas I let a boundary down by talking to my

cousin,but realized that it needs to go up bec. it does not feel

" safe " to speak to her.

So I've filtered her email address toward my husband in the

event that she tries to contact me. I just don't feel safe about it.

So until I do, it stays in place. I just cannot talk to most of the

FOO. Oddly, I released a boundary with my oldest sister, who

won't talk about nada bec. it is too uncomfortable for her. I had it

in place in Oct (the boundary) but after a bit knew that she was in

such denial that she wouldn't " go there " but liked to talk about

her work (she's a nurse), her house (she like to decorate and

garden) and her kids. And she cannot ever talk for more than 5

minutes. So that works out. At the beginning I did not feel

" unsafe " with my cousin, but now I do, so sis and cousin switch

places on the boundary chart.

it works for me......the boundaries are really what give me peace

and distance from it all so I can work on my own stuff...

I noticed my insomnia came back when I was in contact with the

secret FOO agents over Christmas. Filtering cousin's email

made me feel relaxed deep inside.

20 years ago I never thought I would have had this option of

being in charge of who comes inside the boundary.

Kathleen

[Guest guest]

Thanks Cyndie for the nice words. You explained it well, I think.

Now can anyone explain to me why her being rude would trigger my anger??? I

don't see a correlation between this and nada's actions. I'm beginning to see,

though, where her " waif " mode probably triggered me big time - it's still the

central issue when my anger rises up. It sounds bad to say, but " stupidity " has

always angered me. Playing dumb or having no common sense really gets to me -

I'm not sure why - and she's plenty dumb.

I've read several books on boundaries by now and never have I run across the

" language issue " and how things are said.

If anyone has a good book on this in particular please let me know!!

Ilene in TX

[Guest guest]

Thanks Cyndie for the nice words. You explained it well, I think.

Now can anyone explain to me why her being rude would trigger my anger??? I

don't see a correlation between this and nada's actions. I'm beginning to see,

though, where her " waif " mode probably triggered me big time - it's still the

central issue when my anger rises up. It sounds bad to say, but " stupidity " has

always angered me. Playing dumb or having no common sense really gets to me -

I'm not sure why - and she's plenty dumb.

I've read several books on boundaries by now and never have I run across the

" language issue " and how things are said.

If anyone has a good book on this in particular please let me know!!

Ilene in TX

[Guest guest]

Thanks Cyndie for the nice words. You explained it well, I think.

Now can anyone explain to me why her being rude would trigger my anger??? I

don't see a correlation between this and nada's actions. I'm beginning to see,

though, where her " waif " mode probably triggered me big time - it's still the

central issue when my anger rises up. It sounds bad to say, but " stupidity " has

always angered me. Playing dumb or having no common sense really gets to me -

I'm not sure why - and she's plenty dumb.

I've read several books on boundaries by now and never have I run across the

" language issue " and how things are said.

If anyone has a good book on this in particular please let me know!!

Ilene in TX

[Guest guest]

--- ilene@... wrote:

>

>

> Thanks Cyndie for the nice words. You explained it

> well, I think.

>

> Now can anyone explain to me why her being rude

> would trigger my anger??? I

> don't see a correlation between this and nada's

> actions. I'm beginning to see,

> though, where her " waif " mode probably triggered me

> big time - it's still the

> central issue when my anger rises up. It sounds bad

> to say, but " stupidity " has

> always angered me. Playing dumb or having no common

> sense really gets to me -

> I'm not sure why - and she's plenty dumb.

>

> I've read several books on boundaries by now and

> never have I run across the

> " language issue " and how things are said.

> If anyone has a good book on this in particular

> please let me know!!

>

> Ilene in TX

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

--- ilene@... wrote:

>

>

> Thanks Cyndie for the nice words. You explained it

> well, I think.

>

> Now can anyone explain to me why her being rude

> would trigger my anger??? I

> don't see a correlation between this and nada's

> actions. I'm beginning to see,

> though, where her " waif " mode probably triggered me

> big time - it's still the

> central issue when my anger rises up. It sounds bad

> to say, but " stupidity " has

> always angered me. Playing dumb or having no common

> sense really gets to me -

> I'm not sure why - and she's plenty dumb.

>

> I've read several books on boundaries by now and

> never have I run across the

> " language issue " and how things are said.

> If anyone has a good book on this in particular

> please let me know!!

>

> Ilene in TX

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

--- ilene@... wrote:

>

>

> Thanks Cyndie for the nice words. You explained it

> well, I think.

>

> Now can anyone explain to me why her being rude

> would trigger my anger??? I

> don't see a correlation between this and nada's

> actions. I'm beginning to see,

> though, where her " waif " mode probably triggered me

> big time - it's still the

> central issue when my anger rises up. It sounds bad

> to say, but " stupidity " has

> always angered me. Playing dumb or having no common

> sense really gets to me -

> I'm not sure why - and she's plenty dumb.

>

> I've read several books on boundaries by now and

> never have I run across the

> " language issue " and how things are said.

> If anyone has a good book on this in particular

> please let me know!!

>

> Ilene in TX

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

--- ilene@... wrote:

> Now can anyone explain to me why her being rude

> would trigger my anger??? I

> don't see a correlation between this and nada's

> actions. I'm beginning to see,

> though, where her " waif " mode probably triggered me

> big time - it's still the

> central issue when my anger rises up.

Exactly. It's not plain old rudeness, it's all the

stuff behind it, ie waif mode... so if your button was

pushed b/c of it and you said what you said b/c of it,

you gave your power away. Someone else *made* you

angry and you acted on it... thats what gives power

away.

Remember when I was triggered? I gave my power away...

I became seemingly helpless to let those feelings go.

Yuk.

Then there's the boundary issue that came next. This

experience let you know where another boundary needs

to be set up - but again, with detachment. So for me

and my darling little public (!)triggering experience,

rather than having reacted upon my emotional trigger,

I could have said things much differently. Used

different language.

It sounds bad

> to say, but " stupidity " has

> always angered me. Playing dumb or having no common

> sense really gets to me -

> I'm not sure why - and she's plenty dumb.

I've got a thing about common sense too. After dealing

w/BP/s my whole life and not having to anymore - I can

see how many times my common sense was discounted.

*Don't crap on my head and tell me it's birdpoop.*

>

> I've read several books on boundaries by now and

> never have I run across the

> " language issue " and how things are said.

> If anyone has a good book on this in particular

> please let me know!!

I don't know of a book devoted solely to the language

of detachment. But many of the books I've read do

offer some techniques. I picked up SWOE to see what it

had to offer and I think page 159 may have some

answers... I believe Codependent no More also offers

suggestions on how to do this. (Takes lots of practice

though...)

Lots a hugs,

Cyndie

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

--- ilene@... wrote:

> Now can anyone explain to me why her being rude

> would trigger my anger??? I

> don't see a correlation between this and nada's

> actions. I'm beginning to see,

> though, where her " waif " mode probably triggered me

> big time - it's still the

> central issue when my anger rises up.

Exactly. It's not plain old rudeness, it's all the

stuff behind it, ie waif mode... so if your button was

pushed b/c of it and you said what you said b/c of it,

you gave your power away. Someone else *made* you

angry and you acted on it... thats what gives power

away.

Remember when I was triggered? I gave my power away...

I became seemingly helpless to let those feelings go.

Yuk.

Then there's the boundary issue that came next. This

experience let you know where another boundary needs

to be set up - but again, with detachment. So for me

and my darling little public (!)triggering experience,

rather than having reacted upon my emotional trigger,

I could have said things much differently. Used

different language.

It sounds bad

> to say, but " stupidity " has

> always angered me. Playing dumb or having no common

> sense really gets to me -

> I'm not sure why - and she's plenty dumb.

I've got a thing about common sense too. After dealing

w/BP/s my whole life and not having to anymore - I can

see how many times my common sense was discounted.

*Don't crap on my head and tell me it's birdpoop.*

>

> I've read several books on boundaries by now and

> never have I run across the

> " language issue " and how things are said.

> If anyone has a good book on this in particular

> please let me know!!

I don't know of a book devoted solely to the language

of detachment. But many of the books I've read do

offer some techniques. I picked up SWOE to see what it

had to offer and I think page 159 may have some

answers... I believe Codependent no More also offers

suggestions on how to do this. (Takes lots of practice

though...)

Lots a hugs,

Cyndie

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

--- ilene@... wrote:

> Now can anyone explain to me why her being rude

> would trigger my anger??? I

> don't see a correlation between this and nada's

> actions. I'm beginning to see,

> though, where her " waif " mode probably triggered me

> big time - it's still the

> central issue when my anger rises up.

Exactly. It's not plain old rudeness, it's all the

stuff behind it, ie waif mode... so if your button was

pushed b/c of it and you said what you said b/c of it,

you gave your power away. Someone else *made* you

angry and you acted on it... thats what gives power

away.

Remember when I was triggered? I gave my power away...

I became seemingly helpless to let those feelings go.

Yuk.

Then there's the boundary issue that came next. This

experience let you know where another boundary needs

to be set up - but again, with detachment. So for me

and my darling little public (!)triggering experience,

rather than having reacted upon my emotional trigger,

I could have said things much differently. Used

different language.

It sounds bad

> to say, but " stupidity " has

> always angered me. Playing dumb or having no common

> sense really gets to me -

> I'm not sure why - and she's plenty dumb.

I've got a thing about common sense too. After dealing

w/BP/s my whole life and not having to anymore - I can

see how many times my common sense was discounted.

*Don't crap on my head and tell me it's birdpoop.*

>

> I've read several books on boundaries by now and

> never have I run across the

> " language issue " and how things are said.

> If anyone has a good book on this in particular

> please let me know!!

I don't know of a book devoted solely to the language

of detachment. But many of the books I've read do

offer some techniques. I picked up SWOE to see what it

had to offer and I think page 159 may have some

answers... I believe Codependent no More also offers

suggestions on how to do this. (Takes lots of practice

though...)

Lots a hugs,

Cyndie

__________________________________________________