Re: Re: boundaries ........ and fathers

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your support. It is very inspiring and

strengthening to hear your stories.

I've been keeping alot of distance from him, and he

has minimal contact with the kids. He lays a big

guilt trip on me about it, with words, facial

expressions... he's always so disappointed. I'm the

bad daughter who has cut her father out of her life,

depriving him of a relationship with his children.

So I walk around with alot of guilt.

The message I am trying to get across is that if he

wants to have a relationship with my kids he needs to

respect their father.

But when I hear about the problems of others whose

kids do have relationship with the BP grandparent I

wonder if I should allow them to get close to him in

any circustances, unless he recognizes his problem and

gets treatment, which seems virtually impossible.

Joy

--- thanksforthisday

wrote:

> Wow....you are in the right place to get support.

> What worked for

> me was focusing on what was best for ME.

>

> Until I found this group, I would put others ahead

> of me. I thought

> I could never keep my mother from my children, until

> I started

> listening to the effects of all of this on the kids.

> I didn't want to put

> them in the middle and more importantly, have an

> ongoing

> source for my mother's gossip and invalidation. I

> had to seal the

> borders so to speak.

>

> Therapy has helped me see clearly the effects of my

> abusive

> childhood and hear what is normal for folks in

> loving stable

> families.

>

> I've had to learn (very new for me) to not be swayed

> by

> sentimentality, esp if it has damaging consequences

> for me.

>

> I think there were therapists in Cambridge who was

> listed in the

> BPD pages.

>

> Welcome to the list and keep posting!

>

>

>

> Kathleen

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your support. It is very inspiring and

strengthening to hear your stories.

I've been keeping alot of distance from him, and he

has minimal contact with the kids. He lays a big

guilt trip on me about it, with words, facial

expressions... he's always so disappointed. I'm the

bad daughter who has cut her father out of her life,

depriving him of a relationship with his children.

So I walk around with alot of guilt.

The message I am trying to get across is that if he

wants to have a relationship with my kids he needs to

respect their father.

But when I hear about the problems of others whose

kids do have relationship with the BP grandparent I

wonder if I should allow them to get close to him in

any circustances, unless he recognizes his problem and

gets treatment, which seems virtually impossible.

Joy

--- thanksforthisday

wrote:

> Wow....you are in the right place to get support.

> What worked for

> me was focusing on what was best for ME.

>

> Until I found this group, I would put others ahead

> of me. I thought

> I could never keep my mother from my children, until

> I started

> listening to the effects of all of this on the kids.

> I didn't want to put

> them in the middle and more importantly, have an

> ongoing

> source for my mother's gossip and invalidation. I

> had to seal the

> borders so to speak.

>

> Therapy has helped me see clearly the effects of my

> abusive

> childhood and hear what is normal for folks in

> loving stable

> families.

>

> I've had to learn (very new for me) to not be swayed

> by

> sentimentality, esp if it has damaging consequences

> for me.

>

> I think there were therapists in Cambridge who was

> listed in the

> BPD pages.

>

> Welcome to the list and keep posting!

>

>

>

> Kathleen

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your support. It is very inspiring and

strengthening to hear your stories.

I've been keeping alot of distance from him, and he

has minimal contact with the kids. He lays a big

guilt trip on me about it, with words, facial

expressions... he's always so disappointed. I'm the

bad daughter who has cut her father out of her life,

depriving him of a relationship with his children.

So I walk around with alot of guilt.

The message I am trying to get across is that if he

wants to have a relationship with my kids he needs to

respect their father.

But when I hear about the problems of others whose

kids do have relationship with the BP grandparent I

wonder if I should allow them to get close to him in

any circustances, unless he recognizes his problem and

gets treatment, which seems virtually impossible.

Joy

--- thanksforthisday

wrote:

> Wow....you are in the right place to get support.

> What worked for

> me was focusing on what was best for ME.

>

> Until I found this group, I would put others ahead

> of me. I thought

> I could never keep my mother from my children, until

> I started

> listening to the effects of all of this on the kids.

> I didn't want to put

> them in the middle and more importantly, have an

> ongoing

> source for my mother's gossip and invalidation. I

> had to seal the

> borders so to speak.

>

> Therapy has helped me see clearly the effects of my

> abusive

> childhood and hear what is normal for folks in

> loving stable

> families.

>

> I've had to learn (very new for me) to not be swayed

> by

> sentimentality, esp if it has damaging consequences

> for me.

>

> I think there were therapists in Cambridge who was

> listed in the

> BPD pages.

>

> Welcome to the list and keep posting!

>

>

>

> Kathleen

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

--- Joy wrote:

> The message I am trying to get across is that if he

> wants to have a relationship with my kids he needs

> to

> respect their father.

Yes, he does in a sense. I'm not one to freely give

away respect simply because a title or name command

it.

But there is a degree of respect that is warranted.

My nada couldn't stand my exh or his entire family.

She always believed that they were *twisting my brain

against her.* She never thought my words and feelings

were all my own. She blamed them and she never held

herself accountable.

After I disconnected her from my life, she went on a

distortion campaign about me. I intercepted a message

from her to him. It went like this, " I can't believe I

blamed you all these years for keeping my daughter

from me. It was never you. It's always been my

daughter (no name, just ownership.) She's the bad one.

I'm soooo sorry I blamed you all these years. She

doesn't deserve you. " She then went on with more phone

calls in which she shamed me unmercilessly.

Up until then she had always told me she couldn't

stand him and that he was an a88hole - he was pompous,

rigid, a know it all, a better than you, arrogant.

Which he was... but still. He was my husband. She

didn't help the situation. It merely caused me to

defend him and to deny it all OR to get angry with him

on a day where there may not have been any anger. She

planted seeds in my mind that didn't need planting.

She didn't help or offer wisdom, it was always ugly

and hateful.

I don't know why your father doesn't care for your

husband. I'm sure he has his own BP reasons. Maybe he

sees himself in him (projection,) or maybe he blames

him for taking you away from him. It's for you to

identify.

Whatever it is, parents need to respect their

childrens choices and let them live their own lives...

Cyndie

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi,

In my case nada LOVED my husband. On a couple occasions when we would have

a disagreement, he would go see my nada. It only took a couple times for

him to see that something wasn't right about her. He came home, the last

time he had gone to talk to her, and told me that while he was talking to

her, all she could do was cut me to the quick, I'm hardheaded, heartless,

stubborn, ... then he said, " Honey, she doesn't know you at all!!! "

For me, her nadaness? only made us closer.

Of course he was split bad when he told her that she could not come to my

house and talk to me the way she tried to. He had led her to the door.

Priceless.

How do you explain a nada? It's hard because it's so subtle. I usually

found myself standing there trying to figure out how to undo what had just

occurred and not look like a fool.

Now I just say it like it is.

Like I told a friend of mine, It's strange yet wonderful. Strange because

I'd spent so many of my years trying to be close to these people that I had

grown up with and finally realizing that I don't really know them at all,

and wonderful because with all the knowledge I've accumulated about BPD, the

strides I've taken in pulling myself up out of the mire, the realizations I

ve made about my own worth, I find that I don't feel bad for the break with

them. Knowledge is power. I no longer walk in the fog. And that.... is

wonderful.

Warm thoughts to all,

-- Re: Re: boundaries ........ and fathers

--- Joy wrote:

> The message I am trying to get across is that if he

> wants to have a relationship with my kids he needs

> to

> respect their father.

Yes, he does in a sense. I'm not one to freely give

away respect simply because a title or name command

it.

But there is a degree of respect that is warranted.

My nada couldn't stand my exh or his entire family.

She always believed that they were *twisting my brain

against her.* She never thought my words and feelings

were all my own. She blamed them and she never held

herself accountable.

After I disconnected her from my life, she went on a

distortion campaign about me. I intercepted a message

from her to him. It went like this, " I can't believe I

blamed you all these years for keeping my daughter

from me. It was never you. It's always been my

daughter (no name, just ownership.) She's the bad one.

I'm soooo sorry I blamed you all these years. She

doesn't deserve you. " She then went on with more phone

calls in which she shamed me unmercilessly.

Up until then she had always told me she couldn't

stand him and that he was an a88hole - he was pompous,

rigid, a know it all, a better than you, arrogant.

Which he was... but still. He was my husband. She

didn't help the situation. It merely caused me to

defend him and to deny it all OR to get angry with him

on a day where there may not have been any anger. She

planted seeds in my mind that didn't need planting.

She didn't help or offer wisdom, it was always ugly

and hateful.

I don't know why your father doesn't care for your

husband. I'm sure he has his own BP reasons. Maybe he

sees himself in him (projection,) or maybe he blames

him for taking you away from him. It's for you to

identify.

Whatever it is, parents need to respect their

childrens choices and let them live their own lives...

Cyndie

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I could imagine a situation like that if I had a

husband who was susceptible. My husband stays very

objective. He has always seen through my father's

games. My father knows he can't suck him in.

But when I was a teenager, my father loved my first

boyfriend. And I found out later that they

commiserated on their problems with their partners.

(My mother was cold ... I was cold)

Joy

--- wjseetch wrote:

> Hi,

> In my case nada LOVED my husband. On a couple

> occasions when we would have

> a disagreement, he would go see my nada. It only

> took a couple times for

> him to see that something wasn't right about her.

> He came home, the last

> time he had gone to talk to her, and told me that

> while he was talking to

> her, all she could do was cut me to the quick, I'm

> hardheaded, heartless,

> stubborn, ... then he said, " Honey, she doesn't

> know you at all!!! "

> For me, her nadaness? only made us closer.

> Of course he was split bad when he told her that she

> could not come to my

> house and talk to me the way she tried to. He had

> led her to the door.

> Priceless.

> How do you explain a nada? It's hard because it's

> so subtle. I usually

> found myself standing there trying to figure out how

> to undo what had just

> occurred and not look like a fool.

> Now I just say it like it is.

> Like I told a friend of mine, It's strange yet

> wonderful. Strange because

> I'd spent so many of my years trying to be close to

> these people that I had

> grown up with and finally realizing that I don't

> really know them at all,

> and wonderful because with all the knowledge I've

> accumulated about BPD, the

> strides I've taken in pulling myself up out of the

> mire, the realizations I

> ve made about my own worth, I find that I don't feel

> bad for the break with

> them. Knowledge is power. I no longer walk in the

> fog. And that.... is

> wonderful.

> Warm thoughts to all,

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -- Re: Re: boundaries ........ and

> fathers

>

>

> --- Joy wrote:

> > The message I am trying to get across is that if

> he

> > wants to have a relationship with my kids he needs

> > to

> > respect their father.

>

> Yes, he does in a sense. I'm not one to freely give

> away respect simply because a title or name command

> it.

> But there is a degree of respect that is warranted.

>

> My nada couldn't stand my exh or his entire family.

> She always believed that they were *twisting my

> brain

> against her.* She never thought my words and

> feelings

> were all my own. She blamed them and she never held

> herself accountable.

>

> After I disconnected her from my life, she went on a

> distortion campaign about me. I intercepted a

> message

> from her to him. It went like this, " I can't believe

> I

> blamed you all these years for keeping my daughter

> from me. It was never you. It's always been my

> daughter (no name, just ownership.) She's the bad

> one.

> I'm soooo sorry I blamed you all these years. She

> doesn't deserve you. " She then went on with more

> phone

> calls in which she shamed me unmercilessly.

>

> Up until then she had always told me she couldn't

> stand him and that he was an a88hole - he was

> pompous,

> rigid, a know it all, a better than you, arrogant.

> Which he was... but still. He was my husband. She

> didn't help the situation. It merely caused me to

> defend him and to deny it all OR to get angry with

> him

> on a day where there may not have been any anger.

> She

> planted seeds in my mind that didn't need planting.

> She didn't help or offer wisdom, it was always ugly

> and hateful.

>

> I don't know why your father doesn't care for your

> husband. I'm sure he has his own BP reasons. Maybe

> he

> sees himself in him (projection,) or maybe he blames

> him for taking you away from him. It's for you to

> identify.

>

> Whatever it is, parents need to respect their

> childrens choices and let them live their own

> lives...

>

> Cyndie

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

I could imagine a situation like that if I had a

husband who was susceptible. My husband stays very

objective. He has always seen through my father's

games. My father knows he can't suck him in.

But when I was a teenager, my father loved my first

boyfriend. And I found out later that they

commiserated on their problems with their partners.

(My mother was cold ... I was cold)

Joy

--- wjseetch wrote:

> Hi,

> In my case nada LOVED my husband. On a couple

> occasions when we would have

> a disagreement, he would go see my nada. It only

> took a couple times for

> him to see that something wasn't right about her.

> He came home, the last

> time he had gone to talk to her, and told me that

> while he was talking to

> her, all she could do was cut me to the quick, I'm

> hardheaded, heartless,

> stubborn, ... then he said, " Honey, she doesn't

> know you at all!!! "

> For me, her nadaness? only made us closer.

> Of course he was split bad when he told her that she

> could not come to my

> house and talk to me the way she tried to. He had

> led her to the door.

> Priceless.

> How do you explain a nada? It's hard because it's

> so subtle. I usually

> found myself standing there trying to figure out how

> to undo what had just

> occurred and not look like a fool.

> Now I just say it like it is.

> Like I told a friend of mine, It's strange yet

> wonderful. Strange because

> I'd spent so many of my years trying to be close to

> these people that I had

> grown up with and finally realizing that I don't

> really know them at all,

> and wonderful because with all the knowledge I've

> accumulated about BPD, the

> strides I've taken in pulling myself up out of the

> mire, the realizations I

> ve made about my own worth, I find that I don't feel

> bad for the break with

> them. Knowledge is power. I no longer walk in the

> fog. And that.... is

> wonderful.

> Warm thoughts to all,

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -- Re: Re: boundaries ........ and

> fathers

>

>

> --- Joy wrote:

> > The message I am trying to get across is that if

> he

> > wants to have a relationship with my kids he needs

> > to

> > respect their father.

>

> Yes, he does in a sense. I'm not one to freely give

> away respect simply because a title or name command

> it.

> But there is a degree of respect that is warranted.

>

> My nada couldn't stand my exh or his entire family.

> She always believed that they were *twisting my

> brain

> against her.* She never thought my words and

> feelings

> were all my own. She blamed them and she never held

> herself accountable.

>

> After I disconnected her from my life, she went on a

> distortion campaign about me. I intercepted a

> message

> from her to him. It went like this, " I can't believe

> I

> blamed you all these years for keeping my daughter

> from me. It was never you. It's always been my

> daughter (no name, just ownership.) She's the bad

> one.

> I'm soooo sorry I blamed you all these years. She

> doesn't deserve you. " She then went on with more

> phone

> calls in which she shamed me unmercilessly.

>

> Up until then she had always told me she couldn't

> stand him and that he was an a88hole - he was

> pompous,

> rigid, a know it all, a better than you, arrogant.

> Which he was... but still. He was my husband. She

> didn't help the situation. It merely caused me to

> defend him and to deny it all OR to get angry with

> him

> on a day where there may not have been any anger.

> She

> planted seeds in my mind that didn't need planting.

> She didn't help or offer wisdom, it was always ugly

> and hateful.

>

> I don't know why your father doesn't care for your

> husband. I'm sure he has his own BP reasons. Maybe

> he

> sees himself in him (projection,) or maybe he blames

> him for taking you away from him. It's for you to

> identify.

>

> Whatever it is, parents need to respect their

> childrens choices and let them live their own

> lives...

>

> Cyndie

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

I could imagine a situation like that if I had a

husband who was susceptible. My husband stays very

objective. He has always seen through my father's

games. My father knows he can't suck him in.

But when I was a teenager, my father loved my first

boyfriend. And I found out later that they

commiserated on their problems with their partners.

(My mother was cold ... I was cold)

Joy

--- wjseetch wrote:

> Hi,

> In my case nada LOVED my husband. On a couple

> occasions when we would have

> a disagreement, he would go see my nada. It only

> took a couple times for

> him to see that something wasn't right about her.

> He came home, the last

> time he had gone to talk to her, and told me that

> while he was talking to

> her, all she could do was cut me to the quick, I'm

> hardheaded, heartless,

> stubborn, ... then he said, " Honey, she doesn't

> know you at all!!! "

> For me, her nadaness? only made us closer.

> Of course he was split bad when he told her that she

> could not come to my

> house and talk to me the way she tried to. He had

> led her to the door.

> Priceless.

> How do you explain a nada? It's hard because it's

> so subtle. I usually

> found myself standing there trying to figure out how

> to undo what had just

> occurred and not look like a fool.

> Now I just say it like it is.

> Like I told a friend of mine, It's strange yet

> wonderful. Strange because

> I'd spent so many of my years trying to be close to

> these people that I had

> grown up with and finally realizing that I don't

> really know them at all,

> and wonderful because with all the knowledge I've

> accumulated about BPD, the

> strides I've taken in pulling myself up out of the

> mire, the realizations I

> ve made about my own worth, I find that I don't feel

> bad for the break with

> them. Knowledge is power. I no longer walk in the

> fog. And that.... is

> wonderful.

> Warm thoughts to all,

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -- Re: Re: boundaries ........ and

> fathers

>

>

> --- Joy wrote:

> > The message I am trying to get across is that if

> he

> > wants to have a relationship with my kids he needs

> > to

> > respect their father.

>

> Yes, he does in a sense. I'm not one to freely give

> away respect simply because a title or name command

> it.

> But there is a degree of respect that is warranted.

>

> My nada couldn't stand my exh or his entire family.

> She always believed that they were *twisting my

> brain

> against her.* She never thought my words and

> feelings

> were all my own. She blamed them and she never held

> herself accountable.

>

> After I disconnected her from my life, she went on a

> distortion campaign about me. I intercepted a

> message

> from her to him. It went like this, " I can't believe

> I

> blamed you all these years for keeping my daughter

> from me. It was never you. It's always been my

> daughter (no name, just ownership.) She's the bad

> one.

> I'm soooo sorry I blamed you all these years. She

> doesn't deserve you. " She then went on with more

> phone

> calls in which she shamed me unmercilessly.

>

> Up until then she had always told me she couldn't

> stand him and that he was an a88hole - he was

> pompous,

> rigid, a know it all, a better than you, arrogant.

> Which he was... but still. He was my husband. She

> didn't help the situation. It merely caused me to

> defend him and to deny it all OR to get angry with

> him

> on a day where there may not have been any anger.

> She

> planted seeds in my mind that didn't need planting.

> She didn't help or offer wisdom, it was always ugly

> and hateful.

>

> I don't know why your father doesn't care for your

> husband. I'm sure he has his own BP reasons. Maybe

> he

> sees himself in him (projection,) or maybe he blames

> him for taking you away from him. It's for you to

> identify.

>

> Whatever it is, parents need to respect their

> childrens choices and let them live their own

> lives...

>

> Cyndie

>

> __________________________________________________

>