Re: Something I want to share...

[Guest guest]

I apologize for trying to fix things! Pass the flea powder!

Ilene

[Guest guest]

I disagree with this. I don't think Ilene was trying

to " fix " anything. Just simply pointing out that the

apology would not be heard by the person hurt.

I understand that we all have issues and triggers in

this group, but I think we all also have a

responsibility to not lash out at each other. It

could have been pointed out that the post felt

invalidating without all the anger. I do believe

verbal abuse is something everyone of us on this list

can identify with. Southernes' post definetely

triggered things for Cyndie, what about what Cyndie's

post may have triggered for Southernes or anyone else.

I just think it was not acceptable, and letting her

know if she really wants to apologize she will have to

do it directly (and I am not saying she should) is

different then trying to " fix it " . Just seemed like

an FYI to me.

And Cyndie, please know that I am not critizing you,

just responding to the generalities of the situation.

It just happened to be your post this time =)

--- Edith wrote:

> Oops, Ilene I'd suggest that you not try to fix

> things.

>

> The same thing happened to me when I first joined

> this list almost six

> years ago. My feelings were hurt (really bad) and I

> left. No one came

> after me. But I did come back. I decided that the

> list was more

> important to me than sitting alone licking my

> wounds. If I hadn't

> returned, I probably wouldn't be here today.

> Everyone has choices.

> Everyone is responsible only for their own behavior.

>

> Also, what people say and what they do are two

> different things. We're

> all learning here and we should be allowed to do

> stuff and learn from

> our experiences.

>

> Hugs,

> Edith

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I disagree with this. I don't think Ilene was trying

to " fix " anything. Just simply pointing out that the

apology would not be heard by the person hurt.

I understand that we all have issues and triggers in

this group, but I think we all also have a

responsibility to not lash out at each other. It

could have been pointed out that the post felt

invalidating without all the anger. I do believe

verbal abuse is something everyone of us on this list

can identify with. Southernes' post definetely

triggered things for Cyndie, what about what Cyndie's

post may have triggered for Southernes or anyone else.

I just think it was not acceptable, and letting her

know if she really wants to apologize she will have to

do it directly (and I am not saying she should) is

different then trying to " fix it " . Just seemed like

an FYI to me.

And Cyndie, please know that I am not critizing you,

just responding to the generalities of the situation.

It just happened to be your post this time =)

--- Edith wrote:

> Oops, Ilene I'd suggest that you not try to fix

> things.

>

> The same thing happened to me when I first joined

> this list almost six

> years ago. My feelings were hurt (really bad) and I

> left. No one came

> after me. But I did come back. I decided that the

> list was more

> important to me than sitting alone licking my

> wounds. If I hadn't

> returned, I probably wouldn't be here today.

> Everyone has choices.

> Everyone is responsible only for their own behavior.

>

> Also, what people say and what they do are two

> different things. We're

> all learning here and we should be allowed to do

> stuff and learn from

> our experiences.

>

> Hugs,

> Edith

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Cyndie wrote:

I'll have to think about this one. I'm not sure that I

hate nada. Maybe you know or see something I don't.

But for me, I think the anger/hate you saw in my post

was more anger/frustration as I have never had those

feelings validated by my surviving brother and his

wife. The post triggered the frustration I feel with

brother & his wife. I think I've accepted nada for

what she is. I have a hard time accepting denial and

invalidation from others I think *should* be able to

understand and see it.

***Sorry, I guess I assumed the anger came from the root of the problem...

parenting.

I don't think any of us had much, if any, validation growing up. With my

parents it was 'always' my way or the highway.... and my opinion never counted.

That's why these lists are so important, we get the validation that we need to

grow, find out who we are, and learn to love ourselfs. Once recovery happens,

while it's always nice to be validated, we don't 'need' it to be secure.

Exactly, and when this is invalidated I get triggered.

My brother and SIL minimize who nada really is.

****You wouldn't be here if you didn't have an evil bpd in your life! I don't

think 'normal's' ever even consider looking for a support group. They may be

minimizing the extent of nada's abuse now.... but if you stop taking a share of

the sh*t she dishes out... it has to go somewhere and my bet is they will get

dumped on. Hopefully for their sake they will find some nada glasses and see

her for 'what' she is.. then their recovery can start to take place. If not,

there isn't a darned thing you can do about it, except take care of you... and

recover.

And what's frustrated me most in my life, and was THE

reason that I came to this list is the last

interaction I'd had with my surviving brother who

refuses to validate me. I tried to explain this to my

brother and he just refuses to even try to understand

me. It's not that he's not aware that nada has mental

illness. (Although he doesn't know what it is.) It's

that he refuses to validate ME. I don't know why.

Neither he nor his wife will give me any credit for

having valid feelings about the impact nada has had on

my life. THAT is my struggle. It's not nada that I'm

angry at - her I can understand - it's my surviving

brother and his wife that I'm angry at.

*** Some men have a harder time dealing with feelings, plus the fact he grew

up in a household that did 'not' validate. I know it must hurt. Your feelings

'are' valid whether they think so or not! Know that!

And the post that I *should* or that *someone else* is SURE that my nada loves

me - gets my goat.

***But 'you' knew the truth, there is no way anyone else could know if your

nada did or didn't love you. (I'm of the opinion that bpd's are incapable of

love, at least love as we know it) Was this person new to the list? Sometimes

when new people join they are so full of fleas I have a hard time figuring out

if they are the borderline. To me, what I read sounded like a 'I'll fix it for

you' flea,(with out the knowledge that we can't fix anything for anyone but us)I

could be wrong since I don't know people here yet.

I don't know how to get rid of that frustration. I want them to get it - to

BELIEVE me - to HEAR ME - but they just look at me

like I'm the nut - the trouble maker - the bitter one,

and on and on. I'm not bitter, I'm not hateful, I just

wanted them to validate my experience with nada -

that's all. I'm not asking them to hate her, I'm not

asking them to choose sides. They can go on loving

nada if that's what they want - but they won't

consider my feelings. They have no compassion or

empathy for ME. I don't understand it. Like I said,

nada I can understand - why do I find it so hard to

understand their denial???

***If you can, you could try not talking to them about your nada at all. Make

it forbidden ground, I did this with my brother for a while towards the

beginning of my recovery.. it helped. That way you can build the brother sister

relationship without including a mentally ill person in it, maybe he'll be able

to validate you in other aspects of your life? We will validate you about your

nada. The thing we have in common is we are all trying to break the cycle of

abuse, he isn't ready yet.

I hit my bottom 5 1/2 years ago when the 2nd brother

died. I was severely depressed. I made my out of it

without meds, without longterm therapy, and with a BP

traited husband and crazy mother and surviving brother

and SIL who couldn't understand my grief. My surviving

brother and his wife don't think nada is in any way

responsible for the deaths of my brothers. How could

they not??? Is it normal to have two out of four

siblings die of AIDS??? Isn't it obvious that there's

something wrong???

*** Yes, it's pretty obvious.... they just aren't ready to see.

Kris, recovery is happening for me. (And I'm sooo glad

you're here and sooo glad you've beat depression!)

*** Thanks,I'm glad I'm here too and life is really good for me now... I do

want to 'warn' everyone... <grin> I'm known as 'cut to the chase' or 'tell it

like it is Kris' in my other group. I tend to be rather direct in my

responses... I never intend to hurt anyone by what I say, so if anyone doesn't

understand, or takes offense.... please just ask me. This is not directed just

at you Cyndie... but I do have very strong boundaries now and I don't tolerate

verbal abuse from anyone anymore, and I will respond accordingly.

I've just hit this bump in the road. And I'm not so

sure that recovery will ever mean accepting

invalidation of my feelings. It may mean not becoming

angry and frustrated when they are... but right now, I

guess this needed to come out. It's my demon.

*** What recovery will bring is... it dosen't matter if anyone if you're

validated or not. You become so secure you don't 'need' it. Although it's

always nice to receive it. Recovery happens in its own good time, it's

different for everyone. Just keep posting.. and posting.

So yes, invalidation and fluff really trigger me. When

I know full well what I experienced and someone fluffs

it over - oh boy, I get angry. I haven't learned how

to get over this. I'm only sorry I hurt someone else

because of this.

**** I know you are sorry, you had every right to be angry. Use this as a

learning experience.... and find a healthier way to express yourself. I'm sure

you feel much worse about all this than the person who wrote the letter! Let

you in on a little secret... on my road to recovery.... guess who I lashed out

at..... Our dear sweet Edith... that's right! Remember Edith? The road to

recovery is hard, we have much to learn and unlearn.... but the end of that

road..... ahhh... it's worth every tear shed.

Hugs,

Kris