Guest guest Posted December 16, 2001 Report Share Posted December 16, 2001 --- andy24747@... wrote: > I think the word " forgiveness " is one of the most > misunderstood words in > the world, no matter what the language. I agree. Many people use it as a tool for manipulation, or use it, as Kathleen put it, to sweep things under the rug. And Kathleen, I don't know about you, but if I read something and it makes no sense, it's probably because there isn't much sense to it. The link was confusing. I think confusion is a state of mind that we've all been well to familiar with. Usually if I'm left confused by something it's because there is some illogic attached to it. It's more confusing when there is some truth to what is being said. I did agree with some of the stuff he wrote. I agreed with the guy in that link to the point where people in authority appear to be absolved of their wrongdoings and ask us (the victims,) to be the bigger people who need to forgive - thus vicitmizing a person over again by putting it back on them. I mean look at the situations he brought up. There was definitely a gross misuse of the word - the contexts of which were blatant manipulations. However, I just feel that he left out some very pertinent points - that being that although people are in heirarchal positions does not mean that they are not obligated in some sense or other to their debtees in return. In my thinking, his link perpetuates victimization itself. It just leaves you stuck there. And that is not to say that these perpetrators should not be held accountable - they damned well should. I just don't happen to think his theory is on cue. I'd like to see his wife Hannah on the Oprah show and see if she is as bitter as it appears she may be. I don't know, I've seen Oprah - and I say there's a woman who's gotten over and through a lot of issues through the stages you mentioned. Knowledge (understanding,) Acceptance and Moving on. A quote comes to mind in reading that link: " There are offences given and offences not given but taken. " -Izaak Walton Take care, Cyndie > > I think from growing up we have learned that someone > does something, > (bump into someone at the store), they say -sorry, > the person says- > that's ok, and everyone goes on with their life. > > that doesn't work when it comes to major stuff like > ours, people who > have abused and all that crap. we can't say- that's > ok and move on. we > can't expect the person, in this case mostly our > mother's to say- sorry > for all the crap i put you through. or if they say > actually believe they > mean it. > > no. forgiveness is something completly different and > for us even more > important. to me forgiveness means understanding, > accepting and moving > on. and it means that not only we need to forgive > the parent and maybe > siblings or others who enabled but mostly forgiving > ourselves. because > lets face it, most of us, at one point or another > thought we were > responsible for that stuff. > > So what do I mean by forgiveness- understandinf- > that means learning > what we can about our parents and their illness. it > means finding out > what is wrong, they are BPD, or an alcoholic, > whatever. Then > understanding the illness and what it does to > people, including those > around them. > > Accepting- it's a little hard, but it simple means > that we accept the > truth. they are the way they are because... and they > didn't know any > better due to that and probably will never change > unless it's for the > worse. > > Moving on- means, letting go of the anger and fear > and whatever emotions > are hurting us so that we can lead a more > fullfilling less painful life. > It also means that we need to decide how to protect > ourselves from that > abusive situation. Some may choose to assert > themselves, set boundaries, > or if there is no other choice, complete seperation > from the people > involved. > > It's more like- I understand why you are the way you > are, I'm not angry > but for my own well being I need to end this > relationship. instead of > " it's ok that you have treated me like this all of > these years " . Big > difference. > > ** , Stinky's caretaker** > Froehliche Weihnachten, > Merry Christmas > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2001 Report Share Posted December 16, 2001 --- andy24747@... wrote: > I think the word " forgiveness " is one of the most > misunderstood words in > the world, no matter what the language. I agree. Many people use it as a tool for manipulation, or use it, as Kathleen put it, to sweep things under the rug. And Kathleen, I don't know about you, but if I read something and it makes no sense, it's probably because there isn't much sense to it. The link was confusing. I think confusion is a state of mind that we've all been well to familiar with. Usually if I'm left confused by something it's because there is some illogic attached to it. It's more confusing when there is some truth to what is being said. I did agree with some of the stuff he wrote. I agreed with the guy in that link to the point where people in authority appear to be absolved of their wrongdoings and ask us (the victims,) to be the bigger people who need to forgive - thus vicitmizing a person over again by putting it back on them. I mean look at the situations he brought up. There was definitely a gross misuse of the word - the contexts of which were blatant manipulations. However, I just feel that he left out some very pertinent points - that being that although people are in heirarchal positions does not mean that they are not obligated in some sense or other to their debtees in return. In my thinking, his link perpetuates victimization itself. It just leaves you stuck there. And that is not to say that these perpetrators should not be held accountable - they damned well should. I just don't happen to think his theory is on cue. I'd like to see his wife Hannah on the Oprah show and see if she is as bitter as it appears she may be. I don't know, I've seen Oprah - and I say there's a woman who's gotten over and through a lot of issues through the stages you mentioned. Knowledge (understanding,) Acceptance and Moving on. A quote comes to mind in reading that link: " There are offences given and offences not given but taken. " -Izaak Walton Take care, Cyndie > > I think from growing up we have learned that someone > does something, > (bump into someone at the store), they say -sorry, > the person says- > that's ok, and everyone goes on with their life. > > that doesn't work when it comes to major stuff like > ours, people who > have abused and all that crap. we can't say- that's > ok and move on. we > can't expect the person, in this case mostly our > mother's to say- sorry > for all the crap i put you through. or if they say > actually believe they > mean it. > > no. forgiveness is something completly different and > for us even more > important. to me forgiveness means understanding, > accepting and moving > on. and it means that not only we need to forgive > the parent and maybe > siblings or others who enabled but mostly forgiving > ourselves. because > lets face it, most of us, at one point or another > thought we were > responsible for that stuff. > > So what do I mean by forgiveness- understandinf- > that means learning > what we can about our parents and their illness. it > means finding out > what is wrong, they are BPD, or an alcoholic, > whatever. Then > understanding the illness and what it does to > people, including those > around them. > > Accepting- it's a little hard, but it simple means > that we accept the > truth. they are the way they are because... and they > didn't know any > better due to that and probably will never change > unless it's for the > worse. > > Moving on- means, letting go of the anger and fear > and whatever emotions > are hurting us so that we can lead a more > fullfilling less painful life. > It also means that we need to decide how to protect > ourselves from that > abusive situation. Some may choose to assert > themselves, set boundaries, > or if there is no other choice, complete seperation > from the people > involved. > > It's more like- I understand why you are the way you > are, I'm not angry > but for my own well being I need to end this > relationship. instead of > " it's ok that you have treated me like this all of > these years " . Big > difference. > > ** , Stinky's caretaker** > Froehliche Weihnachten, > Merry Christmas > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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