Re: I am at the end of my strength

[Guest guest]

Hi Jacky,

Your story is so sad. I wanted to let you know that there are

people that care about you and what you are/have been going

through -- you are not alone. We have all walked a similar

path, so we know what it's like. You've asked several people

about their stories; have you looked at the archives at all?

We've been archiving for quite a while now, so you should be

able to find a lot of information on those of us who post

regularly. Go to http://www.yahoogroups.com log in and click on

My Groups. Once you're into ModOasis, you will see a sort of

calendar, with numbers in each month of the year. This is the

number of posts for that month; just click on that number, and

it will take you into the archives. We realize that English is

not your first language, so please ask if you have any questions

Unfortunately, I don't know what else to say. It's especially

difficult given that you are in another country where things

appear to be handled very differently than here. I am deeply

saddened by the obstacles you are facing in your attempts to see

a therapist and get help. Although it's not all that easy in

the states either (many people are uninsured, and for those who

do have insurance, many plans don't cover therapy, or only cover

a limited number of visits), there are at least alternative

avenues (some clinics offer reduced-fee options to their

clients). I pay out of pocket for my individual and marriage

therapy, but I have worked out reduced-fee arrangements with

both therapists to make it easier for me to handle.

Although I am typically not an advocate of taking medication, it

sounds like you are deeply depressed. Given that you cannot see

a therapist and are left to working through this on your own, it

might be advisable to medically treat your depression so you

don't feel like you are drowning. I think it will be very

difficult for you to make progress on your own in such a state.

How hard would it be to get a prescription for an

anti-depressant? Your doctor may be more willing to comply if

you tell her about your suicidal feelings. Another option would

be to take an herb like St. 's Wort, although I just

realized I heard somewhere that herbal remedies often require a

prescription in Europe (you can purchase them over the counter

here).

You might also want to consider taking some more proactive

steps. You are surely not the only person in France to come from

an abusive BPD/NPD family... perhaps you could make some efforts

to start a support group in your area? Given your current state

of depression, I realize this may seem like an impossible task.

I recommend it because you are in a desperate state, with few

available options. I know it would take a lot of energy, but it

may also give you some hope that you don't have to go through

this alone. It would also give you contact with other people

that you seem to be missing very much right now. Perhaps that

hope can give you the energy you need to seek some other people

out and start a support group. You mentioned finding a CODA

group... could you tell us what that stands for? I'm guessing

that maybe it's for adult children of alcoholics? Regardless,

you may be able to find some people in an established group (for

families of alcoholics, victims of sexual abuse, etc.) that are

willing to help you get a group going for BPD, or at the very

least, give you some advice on getting one started.

Although I don't know much about it, or how available it is in

France, you might want to consider joining a buddhist temple, or

something like that. It's my understanding that they preach and

practice self-knowledge and inner peace (two things that all KOs

could use!). This would give you the opportunity to meet some

other people, and learn some skills (e.g., meditation) that

might help you heal. Several people on this list have said that

yoga has helped them in their healing... are there any yoga

classes you could take? If you can't afford that, perhaps you

could buy a few videotapes and at least practice on your own.

I sense that you feel very isolated and alone. You said that

you are like a magnet for dysfunctional people, and I can

understand that this would make you nervous about letting people

into your life. There are many good and loving people in this

world, though -- I think that getting to know some of them will

be of an immense help to you. I highly doubt that

BPD/NPD/dysfunctional people will be drawn to places that

encourage self-examination and self-knowledge (e.g., buddhist

temple or yoga class) so perhaps you can improve your odds of

meeting some non-dysfunctional people by seeking out things like

that.

I sense that you feel very hopeless and helpless right now.

Although it may be difficult for you to believe, I do think that

you can find happiness in life. The only person that can make

this happen, though, is you. It's extremely unfortunate that

you are lacking a support system, but I still think you can do

it! Have faith in yourself! You are a good person, and you

deserve to be happy. You do have some support... you have this

group, and lots of books (in English at least , and perhaps an

established support group, or you can start one. Although it

may feel like there are no options, like you are sitting in a

little room with no doors and no way out, there are actually

probably quite a few doors -- you just have to look hard to see

them. When you are feeling depressed, it's hard to start

looking for doors, but I would urge you to do this. You are

worth it.

Hugs,

Anon

--- JMP wrote:

> Hi all,

>

> Jacky from France here.

>

> I would like to shout and tell how much I am hurting. I think

> I am going

> crazy and there seems to be no solution, whatever

> I am trying. I suppose that after this mail I'll be moderated

> for going too

> far but I am desperate and perfectly know there is

> no help to expect.

<snip>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Jacky,

Your story is so sad. I wanted to let you know that there are

people that care about you and what you are/have been going

through -- you are not alone. We have all walked a similar

path, so we know what it's like. You've asked several people

about their stories; have you looked at the archives at all?

We've been archiving for quite a while now, so you should be

able to find a lot of information on those of us who post

regularly. Go to http://www.yahoogroups.com log in and click on

My Groups. Once you're into ModOasis, you will see a sort of

calendar, with numbers in each month of the year. This is the

number of posts for that month; just click on that number, and

it will take you into the archives. We realize that English is

not your first language, so please ask if you have any questions

Unfortunately, I don't know what else to say. It's especially

difficult given that you are in another country where things

appear to be handled very differently than here. I am deeply

saddened by the obstacles you are facing in your attempts to see

a therapist and get help. Although it's not all that easy in

the states either (many people are uninsured, and for those who

do have insurance, many plans don't cover therapy, or only cover

a limited number of visits), there are at least alternative

avenues (some clinics offer reduced-fee options to their

clients). I pay out of pocket for my individual and marriage

therapy, but I have worked out reduced-fee arrangements with

both therapists to make it easier for me to handle.

Although I am typically not an advocate of taking medication, it

sounds like you are deeply depressed. Given that you cannot see

a therapist and are left to working through this on your own, it

might be advisable to medically treat your depression so you

don't feel like you are drowning. I think it will be very

difficult for you to make progress on your own in such a state.

How hard would it be to get a prescription for an

anti-depressant? Your doctor may be more willing to comply if

you tell her about your suicidal feelings. Another option would

be to take an herb like St. 's Wort, although I just

realized I heard somewhere that herbal remedies often require a

prescription in Europe (you can purchase them over the counter

here).

You might also want to consider taking some more proactive

steps. You are surely not the only person in France to come from

an abusive BPD/NPD family... perhaps you could make some efforts

to start a support group in your area? Given your current state

of depression, I realize this may seem like an impossible task.

I recommend it because you are in a desperate state, with few

available options. I know it would take a lot of energy, but it

may also give you some hope that you don't have to go through

this alone. It would also give you contact with other people

that you seem to be missing very much right now. Perhaps that

hope can give you the energy you need to seek some other people

out and start a support group. You mentioned finding a CODA

group... could you tell us what that stands for? I'm guessing

that maybe it's for adult children of alcoholics? Regardless,

you may be able to find some people in an established group (for

families of alcoholics, victims of sexual abuse, etc.) that are

willing to help you get a group going for BPD, or at the very

least, give you some advice on getting one started.

Although I don't know much about it, or how available it is in

France, you might want to consider joining a buddhist temple, or

something like that. It's my understanding that they preach and

practice self-knowledge and inner peace (two things that all KOs

could use!). This would give you the opportunity to meet some

other people, and learn some skills (e.g., meditation) that

might help you heal. Several people on this list have said that

yoga has helped them in their healing... are there any yoga

classes you could take? If you can't afford that, perhaps you

could buy a few videotapes and at least practice on your own.

I sense that you feel very isolated and alone. You said that

you are like a magnet for dysfunctional people, and I can

understand that this would make you nervous about letting people

into your life. There are many good and loving people in this

world, though -- I think that getting to know some of them will

be of an immense help to you. I highly doubt that

BPD/NPD/dysfunctional people will be drawn to places that

encourage self-examination and self-knowledge (e.g., buddhist

temple or yoga class) so perhaps you can improve your odds of

meeting some non-dysfunctional people by seeking out things like

that.

I sense that you feel very hopeless and helpless right now.

Although it may be difficult for you to believe, I do think that

you can find happiness in life. The only person that can make

this happen, though, is you. It's extremely unfortunate that

you are lacking a support system, but I still think you can do

it! Have faith in yourself! You are a good person, and you

deserve to be happy. You do have some support... you have this

group, and lots of books (in English at least , and perhaps an

established support group, or you can start one. Although it

may feel like there are no options, like you are sitting in a

little room with no doors and no way out, there are actually

probably quite a few doors -- you just have to look hard to see

them. When you are feeling depressed, it's hard to start

looking for doors, but I would urge you to do this. You are

worth it.

Hugs,

Anon

--- JMP wrote:

> Hi all,

>

> Jacky from France here.

>

> I would like to shout and tell how much I am hurting. I think

> I am going

> crazy and there seems to be no solution, whatever

> I am trying. I suppose that after this mail I'll be moderated

> for going too

> far but I am desperate and perfectly know there is

> no help to expect.

<snip>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Jacky,

Your story is so sad. I wanted to let you know that there are

people that care about you and what you are/have been going

through -- you are not alone. We have all walked a similar

path, so we know what it's like. You've asked several people

about their stories; have you looked at the archives at all?

We've been archiving for quite a while now, so you should be

able to find a lot of information on those of us who post

regularly. Go to http://www.yahoogroups.com log in and click on

My Groups. Once you're into ModOasis, you will see a sort of

calendar, with numbers in each month of the year. This is the

number of posts for that month; just click on that number, and

it will take you into the archives. We realize that English is

not your first language, so please ask if you have any questions

Unfortunately, I don't know what else to say. It's especially

difficult given that you are in another country where things

appear to be handled very differently than here. I am deeply

saddened by the obstacles you are facing in your attempts to see

a therapist and get help. Although it's not all that easy in

the states either (many people are uninsured, and for those who

do have insurance, many plans don't cover therapy, or only cover

a limited number of visits), there are at least alternative

avenues (some clinics offer reduced-fee options to their

clients). I pay out of pocket for my individual and marriage

therapy, but I have worked out reduced-fee arrangements with

both therapists to make it easier for me to handle.

Although I am typically not an advocate of taking medication, it

sounds like you are deeply depressed. Given that you cannot see

a therapist and are left to working through this on your own, it

might be advisable to medically treat your depression so you

don't feel like you are drowning. I think it will be very

difficult for you to make progress on your own in such a state.

How hard would it be to get a prescription for an

anti-depressant? Your doctor may be more willing to comply if

you tell her about your suicidal feelings. Another option would

be to take an herb like St. 's Wort, although I just

realized I heard somewhere that herbal remedies often require a

prescription in Europe (you can purchase them over the counter

here).

You might also want to consider taking some more proactive

steps. You are surely not the only person in France to come from

an abusive BPD/NPD family... perhaps you could make some efforts

to start a support group in your area? Given your current state

of depression, I realize this may seem like an impossible task.

I recommend it because you are in a desperate state, with few

available options. I know it would take a lot of energy, but it

may also give you some hope that you don't have to go through

this alone. It would also give you contact with other people

that you seem to be missing very much right now. Perhaps that

hope can give you the energy you need to seek some other people

out and start a support group. You mentioned finding a CODA

group... could you tell us what that stands for? I'm guessing

that maybe it's for adult children of alcoholics? Regardless,

you may be able to find some people in an established group (for

families of alcoholics, victims of sexual abuse, etc.) that are

willing to help you get a group going for BPD, or at the very

least, give you some advice on getting one started.

Although I don't know much about it, or how available it is in

France, you might want to consider joining a buddhist temple, or

something like that. It's my understanding that they preach and

practice self-knowledge and inner peace (two things that all KOs

could use!). This would give you the opportunity to meet some

other people, and learn some skills (e.g., meditation) that

might help you heal. Several people on this list have said that

yoga has helped them in their healing... are there any yoga

classes you could take? If you can't afford that, perhaps you

could buy a few videotapes and at least practice on your own.

I sense that you feel very isolated and alone. You said that

you are like a magnet for dysfunctional people, and I can

understand that this would make you nervous about letting people

into your life. There are many good and loving people in this

world, though -- I think that getting to know some of them will

be of an immense help to you. I highly doubt that

BPD/NPD/dysfunctional people will be drawn to places that

encourage self-examination and self-knowledge (e.g., buddhist

temple or yoga class) so perhaps you can improve your odds of

meeting some non-dysfunctional people by seeking out things like

that.

I sense that you feel very hopeless and helpless right now.

Although it may be difficult for you to believe, I do think that

you can find happiness in life. The only person that can make

this happen, though, is you. It's extremely unfortunate that

you are lacking a support system, but I still think you can do

it! Have faith in yourself! You are a good person, and you

deserve to be happy. You do have some support... you have this

group, and lots of books (in English at least , and perhaps an

established support group, or you can start one. Although it

may feel like there are no options, like you are sitting in a

little room with no doors and no way out, there are actually

probably quite a few doors -- you just have to look hard to see

them. When you are feeling depressed, it's hard to start

looking for doors, but I would urge you to do this. You are

worth it.

Hugs,

Anon

--- JMP wrote:

> Hi all,

>

> Jacky from France here.

>

> I would like to shout and tell how much I am hurting. I think

> I am going

> crazy and there seems to be no solution, whatever

> I am trying. I suppose that after this mail I'll be moderated

> for going too

> far but I am desperate and perfectly know there is

> no help to expect.

<snip>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Anon,

Thanks for your post and for your insight. I know a lot of what you are

telling me intellectually,

however it does not help me with the sorrow and pain.

It is nice of you to worry because English is not my first language. I am

French of origin but as

an interpreter and translator for French, English, and German, I have no

difficulty with the posts.

I have been lurking on American and German lists (there is no French list)

for more than a year

now and I understand most of the abbreviations used there. I'll look into

the archives and see if

it helps.

<<It's especially difficult given that you are in another country where

things appear to be handled

very differently than here. I am deeply saddened by the obstacles you are

facing in your attempts

to see a therapist and get help. Although it's not all that easy in the

states either (many people are

uninsured, and for those who do have insurance, many plans don't cover

therapy, or only cover

a limited number of visits), there are at least alternative avenues (some

clinics offer reduced-fee

options to their clients). I pay out of pocket for my individual and

marriage therapy, but I have

worked out reduced-fee arrangements with both therapists to make it easier

for me to handle.>>

As everything is managed by the state, it is impossible to make a deal for

reduced fees with

therapists or clinics. You have to pay for everything privately (what I

unfortunately cannot

afford) or wait. And you are not even sure you will find the right

therapist. We are very

backward here in France as far as abuse and personality disorders are

concerned. Everything

is conveniently put under the word " depression " and treated with meds rather

than therapy.

Therapist and psychiatrists are against support groups and self-help books.

I was told to leave

that to Americans (!!). I am not even considered able to read those books

and knowing such

words like BPD, co-dependency and so on. I was told not to use them as I

impossibly could

understand them!!!!!!!

<<Although I am typically not an advocate of taking medication, it sounds

like you are deeply

depressed......... (SNIP) How hard would it be to get a prescription for an

anti-depressant?>>

My general practitioner prescribed me Zoloft, Bromazepam, and I have to have

Valium always

with me because I am having panic attacks. My GP knows about my suicidal

feelings and just

tell me: " it will be better soon " in the 5 minutes she has for each patient.

This lack of time to

speak with the patient brings the GP to stuff him with as many meds as

possible to have peace.

But it is not the best for the patient. That's why I am so eager to find a

therapist.

I used to take St. 's Wort and it helped a lot. But it has been totally

forbidden in France a

year ago because pharmacists don't know herbs or plants in general and

prefer selling meds,

which bring them more money. Their lobby in parliament is very strong. I was

glad to be able to

drive to Germany almost two weeks ago and there it is sold in supermarkets,

so I bought several

boxes and told my friends in Germany I will ask them for more in the future.

I have to be careful in going from Zoloft and Bromazepam to St. 's Wort.

I'll do it slowly,

over several weeks, all the more so that I have to do it alone, because my

doctor does not know

about plants and herbs and would surely advise against it. I know I am

reacting to plants and herbs

very well. As I was living in Germany, I was almost always treated with them

and felt so much

better. I must also say that German doctors take time to speak with their

patients and just don't

stuff them with a long list of meds; it makes a whole lot of difference,

psychologically.

<<.......(SNIP) .......start a support group.>>

For the time being I don't even have the energy to care for me or my

apartment, I take my

meds, close every window (because I know I would otherwise want to throw

myself thru

them) and lay on my bed most of the time, rarely able to read. I keep the

remaining

strength to be able to go to work from Monday to Friday. I put my mask of

efficiency

as a strong trilingual assistant who is always there to find solutions to

everything, and makes

a tremendous job. I just have no forces left, when I come to my empty

apartment, which

I cannot even call a home.

I am living in a relatively dangerous suburb of Paris, a suburb where the

police does not even

show themselves when something happens, but I can't afford living in a

better area for lack of

money. That is the case for many people living alone in France. The costs

are so high that it is

better to live as a couple. Then you can get an apartment in a decent area.

My German ex(?)BF refuses to do that, as he does not know after 3+ years of

our relationship,

what he wants to do with his life (he has NPD/BPD/anti-social traits and is

an abuser). I recently

succeeded in putting some boundaries and in detaching. I told him I did not

want any private

contact with him (we are unfortunately working together), as long as he did

not seek therapy

and make changes in his behaviour.

It is very difficult in France to start a support group, because it is not

in our education. People

are not interested. There are very few groups for alcoholics, but it is not

even well seen by

doctors and psychiatrists alike. Only THEY, the gods, can help and it brings

them a lot of

money as they are mostly against short therapies. Moreover they are so

expensive that most

people cannot afford them.

French are individualists. There are no ALANON or other support groups. I

would have to go

through incorporation like a company and I have not got the money. We have

in France no

sense of community as you have in the States.

<<You mentioned finding a CODA group... could you tell us what that stands

for?>>

That is a support group for co-dependents, from alcoholic or any

dysfunctional families.

<<....Several people on this list have said that yoga has helped them in

their healing... are there

any yoga classes you could take?>>

In Germany where I was not forced to work overtime everyday, I took yoga,

and it was not

expensive there. It did me a lot of good. Where I now live the classes take

place in the

afternoon, so they are not for me. I should like to come to enough strength

to practice again

on my own. I have also got some CDs with meditation music but most of the

time I don't even

bear listening to the radio. I have no television set.

I am not saying that there are no good and loving people in this world. In

my life though I seem

to meet only abusers of different kinds. As if it was written on my

forehead: " here is a codependent,

caretaker and all. Go for her " . I am unable to defend myself against them.

That's true, I am now seeing any way out. Wherever I turn there are such

hurdles and I am

now too tired to begin a new life again (it would be the fifth time in my

life). The people who

loved me really have all died and I am feeling so alone and attracted to

death, in order to

be with them again and at last find peace.

Thanks once more, Anon, for your kind words. I understand them

intellectually, but I seem

not to be able to begin something with them. I am so down that I am asking

" why should

I? As usual it will be a failure. I am a failure, and that's it. "

Hugs,

Jacky

[Guest guest]

Hi Anon,

Thanks for your post and for your insight. I know a lot of what you are

telling me intellectually,

however it does not help me with the sorrow and pain.

It is nice of you to worry because English is not my first language. I am

French of origin but as

an interpreter and translator for French, English, and German, I have no

difficulty with the posts.

I have been lurking on American and German lists (there is no French list)

for more than a year

now and I understand most of the abbreviations used there. I'll look into

the archives and see if

it helps.

<<It's especially difficult given that you are in another country where

things appear to be handled

very differently than here. I am deeply saddened by the obstacles you are

facing in your attempts

to see a therapist and get help. Although it's not all that easy in the

states either (many people are

uninsured, and for those who do have insurance, many plans don't cover

therapy, or only cover

a limited number of visits), there are at least alternative avenues (some

clinics offer reduced-fee

options to their clients). I pay out of pocket for my individual and

marriage therapy, but I have

worked out reduced-fee arrangements with both therapists to make it easier

for me to handle.>>

As everything is managed by the state, it is impossible to make a deal for

reduced fees with

therapists or clinics. You have to pay for everything privately (what I

unfortunately cannot

afford) or wait. And you are not even sure you will find the right

therapist. We are very

backward here in France as far as abuse and personality disorders are

concerned. Everything

is conveniently put under the word " depression " and treated with meds rather

than therapy.

Therapist and psychiatrists are against support groups and self-help books.

I was told to leave

that to Americans (!!). I am not even considered able to read those books

and knowing such

words like BPD, co-dependency and so on. I was told not to use them as I

impossibly could

understand them!!!!!!!

<<Although I am typically not an advocate of taking medication, it sounds

like you are deeply

depressed......... (SNIP) How hard would it be to get a prescription for an

anti-depressant?>>

My general practitioner prescribed me Zoloft, Bromazepam, and I have to have

Valium always

with me because I am having panic attacks. My GP knows about my suicidal

feelings and just

tell me: " it will be better soon " in the 5 minutes she has for each patient.

This lack of time to

speak with the patient brings the GP to stuff him with as many meds as

possible to have peace.

But it is not the best for the patient. That's why I am so eager to find a

therapist.

I used to take St. 's Wort and it helped a lot. But it has been totally

forbidden in France a

year ago because pharmacists don't know herbs or plants in general and

prefer selling meds,

which bring them more money. Their lobby in parliament is very strong. I was

glad to be able to

drive to Germany almost two weeks ago and there it is sold in supermarkets,

so I bought several

boxes and told my friends in Germany I will ask them for more in the future.

I have to be careful in going from Zoloft and Bromazepam to St. 's Wort.

I'll do it slowly,

over several weeks, all the more so that I have to do it alone, because my

doctor does not know

about plants and herbs and would surely advise against it. I know I am

reacting to plants and herbs

very well. As I was living in Germany, I was almost always treated with them

and felt so much

better. I must also say that German doctors take time to speak with their

patients and just don't

stuff them with a long list of meds; it makes a whole lot of difference,

psychologically.

<<.......(SNIP) .......start a support group.>>

For the time being I don't even have the energy to care for me or my

apartment, I take my

meds, close every window (because I know I would otherwise want to throw

myself thru

them) and lay on my bed most of the time, rarely able to read. I keep the

remaining

strength to be able to go to work from Monday to Friday. I put my mask of

efficiency

as a strong trilingual assistant who is always there to find solutions to

everything, and makes

a tremendous job. I just have no forces left, when I come to my empty

apartment, which

I cannot even call a home.

I am living in a relatively dangerous suburb of Paris, a suburb where the

police does not even

show themselves when something happens, but I can't afford living in a

better area for lack of

money. That is the case for many people living alone in France. The costs

are so high that it is

better to live as a couple. Then you can get an apartment in a decent area.

My German ex(?)BF refuses to do that, as he does not know after 3+ years of

our relationship,

what he wants to do with his life (he has NPD/BPD/anti-social traits and is

an abuser). I recently

succeeded in putting some boundaries and in detaching. I told him I did not

want any private

contact with him (we are unfortunately working together), as long as he did

not seek therapy

and make changes in his behaviour.

It is very difficult in France to start a support group, because it is not

in our education. People

are not interested. There are very few groups for alcoholics, but it is not

even well seen by

doctors and psychiatrists alike. Only THEY, the gods, can help and it brings

them a lot of

money as they are mostly against short therapies. Moreover they are so

expensive that most

people cannot afford them.

French are individualists. There are no ALANON or other support groups. I

would have to go

through incorporation like a company and I have not got the money. We have

in France no

sense of community as you have in the States.

<<You mentioned finding a CODA group... could you tell us what that stands

for?>>

That is a support group for co-dependents, from alcoholic or any

dysfunctional families.

<<....Several people on this list have said that yoga has helped them in

their healing... are there

any yoga classes you could take?>>

In Germany where I was not forced to work overtime everyday, I took yoga,

and it was not

expensive there. It did me a lot of good. Where I now live the classes take

place in the

afternoon, so they are not for me. I should like to come to enough strength

to practice again

on my own. I have also got some CDs with meditation music but most of the

time I don't even

bear listening to the radio. I have no television set.

I am not saying that there are no good and loving people in this world. In

my life though I seem

to meet only abusers of different kinds. As if it was written on my

forehead: " here is a codependent,

caretaker and all. Go for her " . I am unable to defend myself against them.

That's true, I am now seeing any way out. Wherever I turn there are such

hurdles and I am

now too tired to begin a new life again (it would be the fifth time in my

life). The people who

loved me really have all died and I am feeling so alone and attracted to

death, in order to

be with them again and at last find peace.

Thanks once more, Anon, for your kind words. I understand them

intellectually, but I seem

not to be able to begin something with them. I am so down that I am asking

" why should

I? As usual it will be a failure. I am a failure, and that's it. "

Hugs,

Jacky

[Guest guest]

Hi Jacky,

I want to warn you in case if you don't know.

You say:

> I used to take St. 's Wort and it helped a lot.<snip> I was

> glad to be able to drive to Germany almost two weeks ago and there

>it is sold in supermarkets,

> so I bought several

> boxes and told my friends in Germany I will ask them for more in

the future.

>

> I have to be careful in going from Zoloft and Bromazepam to St.

's Wort.

> I'll do it slowly,

> over several weeks,<snip>

Since you are familiar with herbs, you probably already know, but in

case if you don't, I want to warn you that St.'s Wort act like

mild MAO inhibitor and it should not be taken together with

antidepressants s.a. Zoloft, it can cause a very adverse and

dangerous reaction (seizures and even death). You should give your

body time to get rid from Zoloft, approximately 2 weeks before you

can start to take MAO inhibitors ( which is St.'s Wort ) - which

are also antidepressants, but have another mechanism of actions - and

THEY SHOUL NOT BE TAKEN TOGETHER AT THE SAME TIME. And you probably

know, that if you stop taking antidepressants abruptly, you will

experience withdrawal symptoms - and you depression may become worst

and you may experience other weird physical reactions.

It probably will be better if you start to reduce daily dose

gradually and see how your body reacting. Let say if you take you

pills 3 times a day, reduce portion to two times a day, do it for

some time, until you feel comfortable, than take it once a day/or

switch between once a day and twice a day, depending how you feel

and when you comfortable, reduce portion again ... once a day, than

few times a week. This process can take some time. When you stop

taking it completely give you body time to get rid of those

medications(about two weeks) and than you can switch to herbs - it

is a safe way.

As well in some cases St. 's Wort can give an adverse reaction

(fast heart beat, high pulse, blood pressure) if you are eating

certain types of food., like pickled food, aged cheeses, red wine,

anything that contains yeast - like bread and sometimes even

buttermilk(kefir).

Also St. 's Wort can increase level of anxiety - but probably,

since you already tried it and you know it woks with your body well,

it won't happened to you.

I am not MD or pharmacist, but I know some of this stuff and just

wanted to warn you.

> <<.......(SNIP) .......start a support group.>>

>

> For the time being I don't even have the energy to care for me or my

> apartment, <snip>

> It is very difficult in France to start a support group, because it

is not

> in our education. People

> are not interested. <snip>Moreover they are so expensive that most

> people cannot afford them. French are individualists. <snip>

Did you thought about starting support group on the internet - like

YAHOO! GROUPS

something like 'BPD/NPD/Dysfunctional families in France'? It is for

free and takes only 5 min to create. It is very possible that there

are people out there who are looking for support and eventually they

will find your group - it takes some time for group like this to

come to speed, and you can try - you have nothing to lose anyway.

And remember, those European group I recommended to you, if it is not

active, just write a post and someone should answer you - you may

wake up a whole group.

> I am not saying that there are no good and loving people in this

world. In

> my life though I seem

> to meet only abusers of different kinds. As if it was written on my

> forehead: " here is a codependent,

> caretaker and all. Go for her " . I am unable to defend myself

against them.

Hey, there is another group, which can help you with this:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nmagnets_Anonymous

....name speaks for itself :-)

I also want to share with you the other groups I found, which you

possibly can be interested in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Adult-

ChildrenOFNarcissits - you can speak your mind more or less freely

there, as long as you don't offend anybody.

Discussions about NPD: www.suite101.com/discussions.cfm/npd

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/KidsofDysfunction - for any type of

dysfunctional family. This group just recently revived.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BPD-fightwithin - for people who have

BPD, and preferably live in UK - they may help you to find

more 'local' resources.

Name pretty much self-describing - not very active, but can be

supportive. You can discuss medications there, btw:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/borderlinesandnons

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/borderlinesandnons2

>

> That's true, I am now seeing any way out. Wherever I turn there are

such

> hurdles and I am

> now too tired to begin a new life again (it would be the fifth time

in my

> life). The people who

> loved me really have all died and I am feeling so alone and

attracted to

> death, in order to

> be with them again and at last find peace.

Hey, give yourself time to recuperate. Eventually you will gain

enough strenth to change something in your life for the better - just

take one step at the time and don't be hard on your self.

<snip>

> " ... I am a failure, and that's it. "

Are you sure it is your words or your thoughts? Try to understand

who implanted them in your head. You found strenth to fight adversity

many times, you not a failure. You will gain your strenth back little

by little

Wish you all the best

Take care of yourself

Hugs,

Bagira

[Guest guest]

Yes. It is very cathartic to take a baseball bat and beat the bed or

the furniture. Sometimes I break things, but not too bad. I use a

neoprene covered plastic bat. (My husband buys them for me.) It's

important to redirect the anger to the abusers. (Even if they didn't

do it on purpose.) It's has to come out or it poisons you and makes

you sick. Running is good too. (My knees can't take running.) The

catharsis releases new memories and new patterns of thinking that

were blocked by the unreleased anger.

Cyndy

--- JMP wrote:

> Hi ,

>

> Did you try this method yourself?

>

> Jacky

> Re: I am at the end of my strength

>

>

> > http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Sauna/2579/co-dependance.html

> >

> > This article may help.

> >

> > Cyndy

> >

> >

> > --- JMP wrote:

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > Jacky from France here.

> > >

> > > I would like to shout and tell how much I am hurting. I think I

> am

> > > going

> > > crazy and there seems to be no solution, whatever

> > > I am trying. I suppose that after this mail I'll be moderated

> for

> > > going too

> > > far but I am desperate and perfectly know there is

> > > no help to expect

> > > .

> > > You don't know me still; I have been on your American lists for

> > > more than a

> > > year, mostly lurking, because there are

> > > no such lists in France, no help in France, no therapist in

> France

> > > who

> > > understands and treats victims of BPD/NPD/sadistic/

> > > sexual abuser parents, unless you have much money and are not

> > > depending on

> > > the state health system. Otherwise you

> > > have to bear and try to survive with your problems, ALONE.

> > >

> > > Since I am coming from a completely dysfunctional family, I am

> > > struggling to

> > > find help. My younger brother was unable to

> > > and drank himself to death in 1991 because he could not forget

> what

> > > had been

> > > done to him. During which our parents and

> > > our younger sister are living an agreeable life, with money, a

> lot

> > > of

> > > friends, etc, etc.. My mother is so good at playing the

> > > victim and we (my brother and I) have always been the

> unthankful

> > > ones). I

> > > barely survived till now (I am 54) but in what for

> > > a state: depression, suicide attenpts, and working like crazy

> in

> > > order to

> > > barely survive with my children.

> > >

> > > I have no family anymore (my mother and ex-husband made a smear

> > > campaign

> > > with my kids -they were my whole life- and

> > > now they hate me. I have forbidden for childhood from my mother

> and

> > > after

> > > that from my ex-husband to have friends (they

> > > never were good enough), no acquaintances, although I know I am

> > > able to have

> > > friendships. I have some good friends in

> > > Germany where I lived till the Berlin Wall fell, but

> joblessness is

> > > so bad

> > > there that I can go back and live in Germany.

> > >

> > > Life hardships make it for me impossible to get out of this

> hell.

> > > During so

> > > many years I did what I could do alone, but now I'd

> > > need help from empathic therapists, and there is nobody or I

> cannot

> > > afford

> > > them financially. That's why I think I am getting

> > > crazy.

> > >

> > > I seem to be a magnet for dysfunctional persons: NPD, BPD,

> > > sadistic, sexual

> > > abusers. I now know I am a codependent,

> > > however when I spoke about that to French therapists, I was

> told

> > > that I

> > > should not know about that, and therapists are

> > > so few and know so little about these disorders that I was

> given a

> > > one-year

> > > delay at least, before they could take me as

> > > a patient.

> > >

> > > How much I was sexually abused -in my mother's presence who did

> > > nothing but

> > > would have been glad if I had taken her place

> > > with my father and never tried to protect me (between the age

> of 11

> > > and

> > > 17)-, physically abused by both father and mother

> > > till I almost fainted, and emotionally abused till the age of

> 40 I

> > > better be

> > > not specific. Nobody believed me when I tried to

> > > tell my godfather that something really wrong was happening at

> our

> > > home. (He

> > > just called my mother and told her I had

> > > been of course lying about what really happened at our house

> and I

> > > was

> > > beaten ferociously as I came home (or what was

> > > called home and was in fact hell).

> > >

> > > My mother hated me (I was told so by several persons who knew

> her

> > > well - but

> > > they were unable to tell me why). My father

> > > could not bear children in his presence and my brother and I

> had to

> > > disappear as soon as he came home, once in a while,

> > > as he was living with other women. The only difference was that

> he

> > > was

> > > married to my mother. We were not to be seen or

> > > heard as loong as he was there. He aborted my mother several

> times,

> > > leaving

> > > the house before the abortion began, as it

> > > was still under death penalty at this time. Only my younger

> sister

> > > survived,

> > > with a 7 year difference and was treated like a

> > > princess, while we (my brother and I) were always beaten and

> > > mistreated for

> > > everything.

> > >

> > > My brother escaped earlier than I as he was a boy (think of the

> > > time it

> > > happened.) I could not as I had been made responsible

> > > for everything in the house, while trying to go on with

> highschool.

> > > And my

> > > mother went to my teachers and told them I was

> > > lazy, when I was so busy with the housework that I could only

> do my

> > > school

> > > homework after 22.OO hrs, if and when my

> > > sister, in the same bedroom did not call my mother to tell that

> my

> > > tiny lamp

> > > was disturbing her. But she got mother's money

> > > for everything when she grew up and my brother and I got

> nothing.

> > > We should

> > > have had to obey my mother in order to

> > > get presents and money and we did not want that.

> > >

> > > However she made our lives a hell even after that, because she

> is

> > > very good

> > > at smear campaigns. I have two kids (32 and 29)

> > > and both hate me and say I am bad and crazy, while their

> > > grandmother and

> > > their father (my ex-husband) are good because

> > > they still give them money. I only have now my salary to live.

> And

> > > both are

> > > earning good money (my son as a searcher in

> > > pharmaceutical research and my daughter as a specialized

> medical

> > > doctor).

> > >

> > > I don't know what to do. I began something with a friend, and

> he is

> > > BPD/NPD/anti-social. The worst being that we are unfortunately

> > > working together.

> > >

> > > From childhood I wish I get to live a normal life with normal

> > > people, and

> > > don't ask much, but get NOTHING. My life, as I already

> > > am 54 has been lived for nothing. I have no hope anymore, and

> I'd

> > > rather die

> > > as soon as possible, when I see what this life has

> > > been like.

> > >

> > > I tried everything I could as far as help is concerned, but

> having

> > > no money,

>

=== message truncated ===

=====

PEACE and HEALING

/group/depression-cause-cure

http://www.hypnosis-audio.com

http://www.emofree.com

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Bagira,

I am just coming now into reading the posts for the whole last week. There

was so much to do at

the office that I just did not feel like reading and answering my post when

I came home late.

Thank you for the advice about St 's Wort. I already knew about not

mixing both medications

(Zoloft and Co and St 's Wort). I went to my MD for my monthly

appointment this week and

told her what I was doing. She has nothing against it, although she does not

know much about herbs

and other natural medications. I had been taking 1 Zoloft pill every evening

for only 2 months, as I hate

such meds. Now I am swallowing 1 Zoloft every 4 or 5 days in the evening and

on the other days

I'm taking 1 St 's Wort with breakfast. I'm already feeling better, more

balanced.

This relative wellbeing must have something to do too with the fact that my

BF with BPD/NPD/

anti-social traits, --who unfortunately works with me--, was not much at the

office this week.

I know I need to put a new boundary with him. Whenever he has got a problem,

for the time being

with his 19yo son, he comes to me to talk about it. But he is unable and

unwilling to be interested in

my life. It's a one-way street as usual. So I have to tell him distinctly I

won't be listening to him

anymore as long as he is not interested and does not ask me how I feel and

so on. It will probably

separate us still more because he won't do it and I'll have to detach still

more. It feels dreadful in

advance.

I love him, however it is a completely unhealthy love, I know it. He has not

been giving anything in

our relationship, just taking from me all that what he needed when he needed

it, day and night, and

never being there for me.

He recently quietly told me that he was unable to make his words true: he

wrote and told me

innumerable times these last 4 years that he wanted to be with me, to get a

divorce, to make a therapy,

etc, and ................ HE DID NOTHING AT ALL. They are things he has

decided about alone, and

not because I'd ask him to. We already lost 4 years, he sees it, says it,

regrets it, BUT does not

move an inch about them.

I told him that actions speak louder than words, and that if he wanted me to

build trust to him again,

he had to DO something about what he promised and told and wrote about. He

just said I was right

and looked at me sadly.

It seems he has always been unable (and unwilling, maybe unconsciously) in

his life to make decisions

and take action and responsibilities for his actions. He waits till what he

wants fall in his mouth, without

him having to move a finger to get it. If not, he does not move. That is

really sad, because in his job as

an engineer he is very good and a very intelligent man at that. However as

far as feelings are concerned,

he does not exist, and others don't exist either. He says that he does not

feel anything, except anger

(turned inside) and sadness. That has been so frustrating for me all the

time. When I tell him so, he agrees

and............... that's all. Cool and sort of unconcerned. That's why I

have already been detaching a lot,

even if it made me still lonelier.

I don't try to help him anymore as a good little codependent, however he

still comes to me for advice.

I give him as few as possible, but I still listen to him too much, without

myself getting anything at all out

of the relationship. I finally decided one day that he is an adult and has

to look for HIS solutions. And

he has to be ready to help others if he wants to be helped. The fact is he

is not ready at all for that, he

is too self-centered. He does not even see others, except when somebody is

able to meet one of his

needs. Then he is able to show some interest for this person, very shortly,

till his need is met. After that

the person don't exist anymore. He did that with me to get sex, till I put a

boundary: no more coming

in the middle of the night and getting sex and breakfast, then ignoring me

at the office for months at a

time. As long as he remains with his wife and does not take action for the

divorce, there won't be any

sex with me. For me sex is an expression of love, not just gym without

feelings to get some

relaxation!!! So it's HIS problem.

He has unfortunately not one bit of empathy for others. He flees whenever he

can to avoid responsibilities.

I bore with that 4 years and it nearly destroyed me. So I put some

boundaries. It was and still is very

difficult for me, as I am so completely isolated --and he knows it-- and the

boundaries made me still

lonelier. I understand I put up so long with abuse because I am so lonely

and being with an abuser seems

at times better than being always so totally alone and lonely. Now I really

have nobody and I am getting

panic attacks. I like chosen loneliness, not isolation, however it is what I

have been getting for the most

part of my life and I feel terrorized most of the time and depressed.

Sorry for venting again. During the week I am wearing the mask of the

efficient assistant and office

manager, but during weekends I just break down.

<<Did you think about starting a support group on the internet - like YAHOO!

GROUPS, something

like 'BPD/NPD/Dysfunctional families in France'? It is for free and takes

only 5 min to create.>>

I just don't know how to do it. Where can I find explanations about how to

create such a support

group?

<<It is very possible that there are people out there who are looking for

support and eventually they

will find your group>>

I hope so.

Thanks for the names of the groups. I am going to look at them and write to

them.

<<Hey, give yourself time to recuperate. Eventually you will gain enough

strenth to change something

in your life for the better - just take one step at the time and don't be

hard on your self.>>

My nada always told me she had to beat me so that I be harder. For her I was

just too good and

she wanted me to be hard, just as she was. I thought she had not succeed,

however with your words

I am seeing that I am being really hard on myself and always have been, if

never enough for my

nada.

<<<<... I am a failure, and that's it. " >>>>

<<Are you sure it is your words or your thoughts? Try to understand who

implanted them in your

head. You found strenth to fight adversity many times, you are not a

failure. You will gain your strength

back little by little>>

I know that from her 3 kids my nada only loved my sister, she had nothing to

give her oldest kids (my

younger brother and me). My father was jealous of us and did not want us to

exist (except to abuse me

sexually).

I never ever was good enough in my nada's eyes. She criticized and

criticized everything all the time.

And she now wonders why I cut every tie when I was 40. I had to nearly

die --because of her-- to be

able to put that boundary. But her critics lasted so long (40 years) that I

always believed I was a failure

from the beginning, all the more so that my ex-husband was also BPD/NPD and

a master manipulator.

It is then very difficult for me to get out of this thinking pattern, when

you never had anybody to tell you

something else. I got some positive feedback from the girlscouts as a young

girl, it was probably not

enough, because I still see me as a loser, a single failure.

I just began last year, at 53, with an American group, to understand what

had happened in my family and

am still learning from all your posts. It was and still is a great help for

me, even if I don't post much or

often. And I am feeling guilty for not giving back what I am getting from

this group.

In France we are very backward compared to the US as far as understanding

and treatment of family

dysfunctions and personality disorders are concerned. It makes finding help

and therapy very difficult, all

the more so that our health system does not recognize anything else than

psycho-analysis. DBT, hypnosis,

talk therapy and so on.... are found very seldom in therapists and have to

be paid for privately. Very few

people can afford them.

Thanks for your kind advice.

Take good care of yourself too.

Hugs

Jacky