Guest guest Posted February 21, 2001 Report Share Posted February 21, 2001 *hugs Ilene* Yes, I feel very similarly. I am a little nervous too about meeting people from the list. I'm wondering if my shyness is going be a problem because I can sometimes get overwhelmed by too many people. I'm also embarrassed about things I've said, but I know we've all had to go through a lot in here. I hope your day goes well, and I'll definitely keep you in my prayers. >From: ilene@... >Reply-To: ModOasis >To: ModOasis >Subject: fleas? >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:20:28 -0600 > > > >Is anyone else scared to death to actually meet the others on this list? >I've >been so open about my problems >that I'm scared to meet everyone. I'm embarrassed that I've revealed so >much. >Nada always said that " honey catches more flies that vinegar " and " cry and >you >cry alone " , which makes me feel like if I continue to share, you may get >tired >of me >and my problems. I know that this list is for sharing , but I don't want >to be >the email " hog " . > >Maybe you can tell, all isn't well in Tx this morning. I've got tears >rusting >the keyboard again. > >Btw, at one in the morning, I had visions of my nada as one of the Borg, >taking >over my individuality and saying " resistance is futile " . Not a pleasant >picture. > >Hugs, >Ilene > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2001 Report Share Posted February 21, 2001 I thought about it too. Probably my imagination is too vivid, but worst thing I afraid of is ours 'fleas incompatibility'. Bagira. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2001 Report Share Posted February 21, 2001 I agree with this, too, Will - >> I don't think that I would be afraid to meet the others on the list. My fear is that, after hashing out all our problems on the list, that we wouldn't have anything to say to each other in person.>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2001 Report Share Posted February 21, 2001 Ilene wrote: << Is anyone else scared to death to actually meet the others on this list? >> ha ha ha This brought back lots of memories. I've been on these Oasis and NonBP (and BorderPD) lists since my Lightbulb experience in Jan of '96. Randi published a 56 page booklet titled Walking On Eggshells around July-August of that year. SWOE wasn't published until mid-'98. In 1998 I had a chance to meet other KOs and Nons in a get-together in TX but I was soooooo scared that I chickened out. I really wanted to go but couldn't let myself do that. In August of '99 there was another get-together of Nons and KOs in Wisconsin. The BPs who had been in my life were all 'deep six' by then and my kids encouraged me to go if I wanted to so I did. I knew that we were going to meet at Randi's house the first evening there so I kinda felt secure. But, Wow!!, it was **awesome** to meet others with a background similar to mine. I was both a KO and a Non (having married a BP). The people I most identified with there, however, were the KOs. In August of 2000 some of us KOs (all women) decided to have our own meeting in Austin, TX. By then we KOs had beared practically every morsel in our souls to each other. From the time we set foot on the ground (from the plane), we talked and talked and talked and ate and talked. It was fabulous. We were 2 to a bungalo right on the Colorado River. No one went swimming, no one went hiking, we just sat and ate and talked. Our 'nicks' on the screen, again, had real faces and bodies. In June of 2001, some of us old timers will be meeting in PA and we're all looking forward to that meeting. Its gonna be in a back-woodsy 'wilderness' place and we'll sleep and eat at a B & B, and maybe see some bears in their own habitat. The interesting thing that happens with us KOs is that when we post we bond with each other. Those bonds were supposed to have been fused within the domain of a real family, but we didn't have a real family. Some of those here who don't post are healing vicariously through our posts. On my list where we KOs have been together now for 3 years, we're close -- like sisters. But, we're low-maintenance sisters. Each has their own hubby and/or family and unique set of trials and tribulations that we don't bother each other with. I know those OaSisters better than I know my own sister. And, this year we're dealing with the fact that one of the KOs in our original group has been hospitalized with a terminal illness. It is so sad and, of course, we see some of our sisters with their abandonment issues rising to the surface. So we're working on stuff like that right now. <sigh> So, like Ilene wrote: << I've been so open about my problems that I'm scared to meet everyone. >> BTDT. I think that I had to wait until my nada's voice in my head was quelled until I started to really feel comfortable. We KOs have been judged and judged and judged in the past by our nadas/fadas and we've not made the grade so this may be the part of the scaredness that you're feeling. I'm still growing. This is the first year that I found my own voice. The turning point was when I asked Randi back in October if I could start this ModOasis list up. And, my voice has been getting stronger ever since. One of the reasons I don't post to this list lately is that I'm helping Randi and out on the other lists while Randi is working on several projects. But, I'm not the only " keeper of the knowledge " here. As other KO's STN goggles and BPD radars are becoming finer and finer tuned, they are able to step up and help -- for which Randi, and I are not only grateful but it also indicates KO's growth, which is what this list is all about in the first place. And Ilene wrote: << I'm embarrassed that I've revealed so much. >> When others are ready to post, they will. Lots of the lurkers here are still in lots of pain and aren't ready yet to step up to the mike. << Nada always said that " honey catches more flies that vinegar " and " cry and you cry alone " , which makes me feel like if I continue to share, you may get tired of me and my problems. I know that this list is for sharing , but I don't want to be the email " hog " . >> Some day those " Rules To Live By " that your nada planted in your head will disappear. Keep posting. The validation and support you give/get here just are not available anywhere else in the world right now. We're all wearing *pioneer* hats. << Maybe you can tell, all isn't well in Tx this morning. I've got tears rusting the keyboard again. >> Its OK, Ilene. I, too, have BTDT many many times. {{{{{{{{{{Ilene}}}}}}}}}}}} << Btw, at one in the morning, I had visions of my nada as one of the Borg, taking over my individuality and saying " resistance is futile " . Not a pleasant picture. >> Yup, shxt like that happens and can haunt us for awhile. Our nadas/fadas worked real hard to get us the way we are but now its our time and our turn to do something about it. <handing Ilene a KO NSG (nada stun gun)> All we KOs ever wanted and deserved was a REAL Mother, not a make-believe one. But we got the rejected model and we not only survived but we found our way here to our very own oasis in cyberspace. Wow, its heading for 2 pm here and I've still stuff to do, like go to the bank. Hugs, Edith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2001 Report Share Posted February 21, 2001 Ilene wrote: << Is anyone else scared to death to actually meet the others on this list? >> ha ha ha This brought back lots of memories. I've been on these Oasis and NonBP (and BorderPD) lists since my Lightbulb experience in Jan of '96. Randi published a 56 page booklet titled Walking On Eggshells around July-August of that year. SWOE wasn't published until mid-'98. In 1998 I had a chance to meet other KOs and Nons in a get-together in TX but I was soooooo scared that I chickened out. I really wanted to go but couldn't let myself do that. In August of '99 there was another get-together of Nons and KOs in Wisconsin. The BPs who had been in my life were all 'deep six' by then and my kids encouraged me to go if I wanted to so I did. I knew that we were going to meet at Randi's house the first evening there so I kinda felt secure. But, Wow!!, it was **awesome** to meet others with a background similar to mine. I was both a KO and a Non (having married a BP). The people I most identified with there, however, were the KOs. In August of 2000 some of us KOs (all women) decided to have our own meeting in Austin, TX. By then we KOs had beared practically every morsel in our souls to each other. From the time we set foot on the ground (from the plane), we talked and talked and talked and ate and talked. It was fabulous. We were 2 to a bungalo right on the Colorado River. No one went swimming, no one went hiking, we just sat and ate and talked. Our 'nicks' on the screen, again, had real faces and bodies. In June of 2001, some of us old timers will be meeting in PA and we're all looking forward to that meeting. Its gonna be in a back-woodsy 'wilderness' place and we'll sleep and eat at a B & B, and maybe see some bears in their own habitat. The interesting thing that happens with us KOs is that when we post we bond with each other. Those bonds were supposed to have been fused within the domain of a real family, but we didn't have a real family. Some of those here who don't post are healing vicariously through our posts. On my list where we KOs have been together now for 3 years, we're close -- like sisters. But, we're low-maintenance sisters. Each has their own hubby and/or family and unique set of trials and tribulations that we don't bother each other with. I know those OaSisters better than I know my own sister. And, this year we're dealing with the fact that one of the KOs in our original group has been hospitalized with a terminal illness. It is so sad and, of course, we see some of our sisters with their abandonment issues rising to the surface. So we're working on stuff like that right now. <sigh> So, like Ilene wrote: << I've been so open about my problems that I'm scared to meet everyone. >> BTDT. I think that I had to wait until my nada's voice in my head was quelled until I started to really feel comfortable. We KOs have been judged and judged and judged in the past by our nadas/fadas and we've not made the grade so this may be the part of the scaredness that you're feeling. I'm still growing. This is the first year that I found my own voice. The turning point was when I asked Randi back in October if I could start this ModOasis list up. And, my voice has been getting stronger ever since. One of the reasons I don't post to this list lately is that I'm helping Randi and out on the other lists while Randi is working on several projects. But, I'm not the only " keeper of the knowledge " here. As other KO's STN goggles and BPD radars are becoming finer and finer tuned, they are able to step up and help -- for which Randi, and I are not only grateful but it also indicates KO's growth, which is what this list is all about in the first place. And Ilene wrote: << I'm embarrassed that I've revealed so much. >> When others are ready to post, they will. Lots of the lurkers here are still in lots of pain and aren't ready yet to step up to the mike. << Nada always said that " honey catches more flies that vinegar " and " cry and you cry alone " , which makes me feel like if I continue to share, you may get tired of me and my problems. I know that this list is for sharing , but I don't want to be the email " hog " . >> Some day those " Rules To Live By " that your nada planted in your head will disappear. Keep posting. The validation and support you give/get here just are not available anywhere else in the world right now. We're all wearing *pioneer* hats. << Maybe you can tell, all isn't well in Tx this morning. I've got tears rusting the keyboard again. >> Its OK, Ilene. I, too, have BTDT many many times. {{{{{{{{{{Ilene}}}}}}}}}}}} << Btw, at one in the morning, I had visions of my nada as one of the Borg, taking over my individuality and saying " resistance is futile " . Not a pleasant picture. >> Yup, shxt like that happens and can haunt us for awhile. Our nadas/fadas worked real hard to get us the way we are but now its our time and our turn to do something about it. <handing Ilene a KO NSG (nada stun gun)> All we KOs ever wanted and deserved was a REAL Mother, not a make-believe one. But we got the rejected model and we not only survived but we found our way here to our very own oasis in cyberspace. Wow, its heading for 2 pm here and I've still stuff to do, like go to the bank. Hugs, Edith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2001 Report Share Posted February 21, 2001 Hey Tex, I hope your day is going better {{{{{{{Tex}}}}}}}} I'm not really worried about meeting everyone. People on this list seem so empathetic and validating, so I don't have much fear of you guys judging me (maybe that will change as the to-be-determined meeting date draws near... who knows?). I just hope WTO hurries up and makes their plans so we can proceed! Nadas/fadas can't accept their children because they don't even know how to accept themselves. But most KOs are too young to figure out WHY they aren't being accepted. Unable to fathom (at a young age) that something is wrong with mom/dad, we assume something must be wrong with us. So, this lack of acceptance on the part of nada/fada leads many of us to strive for perfection, and to assume we'll be judged when we're less than perfect. And many of us feel ashamed ( " embarrassed " ) when we're less than perfect (where imperfection is a chronic condition for humans). I wonder if this would explain why you're embarrassed about revealing so much, Ilene? Maybe your nada-voice is telling you to be embarrassed/ashamed in an effort to get you to stop exploring yourself... I certainly don't feel that you've revealed anything to be embarrassed about! << Nada always said that " honey catches more flies that vinegar " and " cry and you cry alone " , which makes me feel like if I continue to share, you may get tired of me and my problems. >> I think your internalized nada voice is very active today! Those may have been things your nada said to you, but you won't hear that kind of stuff here. She used statements like that to control you and keep you from threatening her existence. Why would we get tired of you and your problems, when we're all struggling with the same ones (more or less)? Additonally, I only get tired of my friends' problems when they complain endlessly, yet do nothing to change their situation. Every single person on this list is doing something to change their situation, or they wouldn't be on this list. We would certainly never tell you that your feelings are unimportant and to keep them to yourself... that's nada-speak and it's banned here! Besides, who wants to catch flies anyway!? And who the heck wants to cry alone? If your friends jump ship every time you start to cry, then they're probably not very good friends! Personally, I am very much looking forward to meeting everyone. Edith said the previous Oasis get-together was a smashing success -- I can't imagine why the next wouldn't be also! Hugs, Anon --- ilene@... wrote: > > > Is anyone else scared to death to actually meet the others on this list? > I've > been so open about my problems > that I'm scared to meet everyone. I'm embarrassed that I've revealed so > much. > Nada always said that " honey catches more flies that vinegar " and " cry and > you > cry alone " , which makes me feel like if I continue to share, you may get > tired > of me > and my problems. I know that this list is for sharing , but I don't want to > be > the email " hog " . > > Maybe you can tell, all isn't well in Tx this morning. I've got tears > rusting > the keyboard again. > > Btw, at one in the morning, I had visions of my nada as one of the Borg, > taking > over my individuality and saying " resistance is futile " . Not a pleasant > picture. > > Hugs, > Ilene __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2001 Report Share Posted February 21, 2001 Hey Tex, I hope your day is going better {{{{{{{Tex}}}}}}}} I'm not really worried about meeting everyone. People on this list seem so empathetic and validating, so I don't have much fear of you guys judging me (maybe that will change as the to-be-determined meeting date draws near... who knows?). I just hope WTO hurries up and makes their plans so we can proceed! Nadas/fadas can't accept their children because they don't even know how to accept themselves. But most KOs are too young to figure out WHY they aren't being accepted. Unable to fathom (at a young age) that something is wrong with mom/dad, we assume something must be wrong with us. So, this lack of acceptance on the part of nada/fada leads many of us to strive for perfection, and to assume we'll be judged when we're less than perfect. And many of us feel ashamed ( " embarrassed " ) when we're less than perfect (where imperfection is a chronic condition for humans). I wonder if this would explain why you're embarrassed about revealing so much, Ilene? Maybe your nada-voice is telling you to be embarrassed/ashamed in an effort to get you to stop exploring yourself... I certainly don't feel that you've revealed anything to be embarrassed about! << Nada always said that " honey catches more flies that vinegar " and " cry and you cry alone " , which makes me feel like if I continue to share, you may get tired of me and my problems. >> I think your internalized nada voice is very active today! Those may have been things your nada said to you, but you won't hear that kind of stuff here. She used statements like that to control you and keep you from threatening her existence. Why would we get tired of you and your problems, when we're all struggling with the same ones (more or less)? Additonally, I only get tired of my friends' problems when they complain endlessly, yet do nothing to change their situation. Every single person on this list is doing something to change their situation, or they wouldn't be on this list. We would certainly never tell you that your feelings are unimportant and to keep them to yourself... that's nada-speak and it's banned here! Besides, who wants to catch flies anyway!? And who the heck wants to cry alone? If your friends jump ship every time you start to cry, then they're probably not very good friends! Personally, I am very much looking forward to meeting everyone. Edith said the previous Oasis get-together was a smashing success -- I can't imagine why the next wouldn't be also! Hugs, Anon --- ilene@... wrote: > > > Is anyone else scared to death to actually meet the others on this list? > I've > been so open about my problems > that I'm scared to meet everyone. I'm embarrassed that I've revealed so > much. > Nada always said that " honey catches more flies that vinegar " and " cry and > you > cry alone " , which makes me feel like if I continue to share, you may get > tired > of me > and my problems. I know that this list is for sharing , but I don't want to > be > the email " hog " . > > Maybe you can tell, all isn't well in Tx this morning. I've got tears > rusting > the keyboard again. > > Btw, at one in the morning, I had visions of my nada as one of the Borg, > taking > over my individuality and saying " resistance is futile " . Not a pleasant > picture. > > Hugs, > Ilene __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2001 Report Share Posted February 21, 2001 OK, Edith here. I'm back. Stopped by to pick up some tools to work in my little garden with. I moved into my own place last June and now I can look forward to fixing it up nice and cute and cozy -- just like *I* want it to be. Anon wrote: << .... this lack of acceptance on the part of nada/fada leads many of us to strive for perfection, and to assume we'll be judged when we're less than perfect. And many of us feel ashamed ( " embarrassed " ) when we're less than perfect ... >> Yes, Anon hit the nail on the head. That " embarrassment " is the *shame* that was dumped willy-nilly on us from our youngest days. Its that blame/shame shxt that's been mentioned here before and that our nadas/fadas used to control us with. And it comes off in layers like peeling an onion. And it happens on its own time schedule. My nada lived rent-free in my head for 12 years after her death, yak yak yaking about every thing I ever did or attempted to do. When I finally found her, I kicked her arse out. The thing that worked for me was to begin questioning everything I did. It started with a piece of brown bread. As a child my nada would only allow us to eat brown bread. I wanted to try white bread but it was forbidden. It got so that I hated brown bread and from the time I walked out the door on my 18th birthday until 2.5 years ago brown bread never once crossed my lips. One day I got to wondering why I could be so adamant about brown bread when I hadn't eaten it for decades. So I went to the store and bought a loaf of brown bread and came home and made myself a sandwich. And I discovered that *I* liked brown bread. That was the beginning of the unraveling of the nada shxt and the beginning of my being true to *my* self. For awhile I had to double-think everything -- questioning my attitude (ie, feelings) about stuff. That phase lasted about 2-3 months and some days I just sat and stared at the wall -- going over my accumulated memories of a lifetime and looking at the script that I had been handed by my nada and BP hubby. Eventually I was able to not only get in touch with *my* own feelings but I was able to put labels on them. I had been numbed out for a lifetime. The last layer of shame that I shed was this past October when I lost my fear of posting on these " open " lists. My other lists are closed lists but I needed that security then, where I was accepted unconditionally, to get where I am today. I am no longer ashamed of my background. I am a survivor and I've risen like a phoenix from the ashes. And, if telling my story can help make someone else's life a little bit better then my suffering has served a useful function. My life now is gooooood. Hugs, Edith - Knowledge is power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2001 Report Share Posted February 21, 2001 OK, Edith here. I'm back. Stopped by to pick up some tools to work in my little garden with. I moved into my own place last June and now I can look forward to fixing it up nice and cute and cozy -- just like *I* want it to be. Anon wrote: << .... this lack of acceptance on the part of nada/fada leads many of us to strive for perfection, and to assume we'll be judged when we're less than perfect. And many of us feel ashamed ( " embarrassed " ) when we're less than perfect ... >> Yes, Anon hit the nail on the head. That " embarrassment " is the *shame* that was dumped willy-nilly on us from our youngest days. Its that blame/shame shxt that's been mentioned here before and that our nadas/fadas used to control us with. And it comes off in layers like peeling an onion. And it happens on its own time schedule. My nada lived rent-free in my head for 12 years after her death, yak yak yaking about every thing I ever did or attempted to do. When I finally found her, I kicked her arse out. The thing that worked for me was to begin questioning everything I did. It started with a piece of brown bread. As a child my nada would only allow us to eat brown bread. I wanted to try white bread but it was forbidden. It got so that I hated brown bread and from the time I walked out the door on my 18th birthday until 2.5 years ago brown bread never once crossed my lips. One day I got to wondering why I could be so adamant about brown bread when I hadn't eaten it for decades. So I went to the store and bought a loaf of brown bread and came home and made myself a sandwich. And I discovered that *I* liked brown bread. That was the beginning of the unraveling of the nada shxt and the beginning of my being true to *my* self. For awhile I had to double-think everything -- questioning my attitude (ie, feelings) about stuff. That phase lasted about 2-3 months and some days I just sat and stared at the wall -- going over my accumulated memories of a lifetime and looking at the script that I had been handed by my nada and BP hubby. Eventually I was able to not only get in touch with *my* own feelings but I was able to put labels on them. I had been numbed out for a lifetime. The last layer of shame that I shed was this past October when I lost my fear of posting on these " open " lists. My other lists are closed lists but I needed that security then, where I was accepted unconditionally, to get where I am today. I am no longer ashamed of my background. I am a survivor and I've risen like a phoenix from the ashes. And, if telling my story can help make someone else's life a little bit better then my suffering has served a useful function. My life now is gooooood. Hugs, Edith - Knowledge is power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 21, 2001 Report Share Posted February 21, 2001 Then you haven't met me... *lol* Pirjo > > > I agree with this, too, Will - > > >> > I don't think that I would be afraid to meet the > others on the list. My fear is that, after > hashing out all our problems on the list, that we > wouldn't have anything to say to each other in > person.>>> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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