Guest guest Posted February 2, 2001 Report Share Posted February 2, 2001 I just ordered mine - thanks for the info! Ilene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2001 Report Share Posted February 9, 2001 Hi Steph- My nada has also been sick most of her life with diabetes and other ailments du jour. I've seriously reduced my contact with her, and in one phase she called me from the hospital. She told me that she had been in the hospital for two weeks (probably not true) and that she had to have part of her big toe removed due to diabetes (which was true). It was so hard not letting the FOG come over me when she started in on how she could have died and I never would have known. I felt bad for a while, but I was really proud of myself for not letting her " pull me back in. " In a strange bit of synchronicity (I don't believe in coincidence anymore), my best friend's mom had just lost her leg to cancer. Her mom never blamed her or guilted her, and it didn't even slow her down. She got a prosthetic leg and she's back to work. I think being able to compare the situations helped me immesurably. I know from experience that time does make the separation easier. I don't hate my nada, but as Mickey Rourke said in the movie " Barfly, " I just feel better when she's not around. Hugs, Rosemary > Wow. > > I just got my book today, and I've already read half of it. My head feels > like there's a clamp on it, and I'm spinning just a little. Now I see > exactly what my mother is. She's a Witch/Queen. I'm a little confused > about the Madeo (sp?) queen? Are they only murderous types or is it > sufficient to throw the child out of the house? I remember once my grades > weren't good enough, and my parents moved me out to my grandmother's house > immediately. > > Thank God for that. I'm beginning to think that the love and validation I > got from my grandparents and family *at that time* saved me. I was on a > road to nowhere, and my family supported me and loved me with all their > heart. God help me. Let me try to remember this during their conflicts and > confusion with our present crisis. (remember, they now feel that I'm an > adult, and I should be able to work with my parents. I've cut all contact > with them and have no plans on going back.) > > The hatred. The anger. Even the guilt about having cut them off and having > to set boundaries with my family regarding THAT. Everything in this book. > Just when you think you've got things figured out, there's another issue > that needs to be addressed. Does this ever end?? Are we also succumbing to > a life-time diagnosis of being a BPD's non-child? Will we ever be able to > think and feel on our own, with no shame or guilt over-riding our decisions? > Am I ever going to be able to finally be OK with never seeing my mom > again? > > Btw, my mother also has fibromyalgia, and she takes 84 pills a day. My > hubby (in med school) has told me about the psychosomatic stuff for years > now. It's nice to have that *validated* in a book too. All the things you > wish you never knew..just like the books says. > > You all have a good day. I think I'm going to have a glass of wine. ;-) > > with love, > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2001 Report Share Posted February 9, 2001 Hi Steph- My nada has also been sick most of her life with diabetes and other ailments du jour. I've seriously reduced my contact with her, and in one phase she called me from the hospital. She told me that she had been in the hospital for two weeks (probably not true) and that she had to have part of her big toe removed due to diabetes (which was true). It was so hard not letting the FOG come over me when she started in on how she could have died and I never would have known. I felt bad for a while, but I was really proud of myself for not letting her " pull me back in. " In a strange bit of synchronicity (I don't believe in coincidence anymore), my best friend's mom had just lost her leg to cancer. Her mom never blamed her or guilted her, and it didn't even slow her down. She got a prosthetic leg and she's back to work. I think being able to compare the situations helped me immesurably. I know from experience that time does make the separation easier. I don't hate my nada, but as Mickey Rourke said in the movie " Barfly, " I just feel better when she's not around. Hugs, Rosemary > Wow. > > I just got my book today, and I've already read half of it. My head feels > like there's a clamp on it, and I'm spinning just a little. Now I see > exactly what my mother is. She's a Witch/Queen. I'm a little confused > about the Madeo (sp?) queen? Are they only murderous types or is it > sufficient to throw the child out of the house? I remember once my grades > weren't good enough, and my parents moved me out to my grandmother's house > immediately. > > Thank God for that. I'm beginning to think that the love and validation I > got from my grandparents and family *at that time* saved me. I was on a > road to nowhere, and my family supported me and loved me with all their > heart. God help me. Let me try to remember this during their conflicts and > confusion with our present crisis. (remember, they now feel that I'm an > adult, and I should be able to work with my parents. I've cut all contact > with them and have no plans on going back.) > > The hatred. The anger. Even the guilt about having cut them off and having > to set boundaries with my family regarding THAT. Everything in this book. > Just when you think you've got things figured out, there's another issue > that needs to be addressed. Does this ever end?? Are we also succumbing to > a life-time diagnosis of being a BPD's non-child? Will we ever be able to > think and feel on our own, with no shame or guilt over-riding our decisions? > Am I ever going to be able to finally be OK with never seeing my mom > again? > > Btw, my mother also has fibromyalgia, and she takes 84 pills a day. My > hubby (in med school) has told me about the psychosomatic stuff for years > now. It's nice to have that *validated* in a book too. All the things you > wish you never knew..just like the books says. > > You all have a good day. I think I'm going to have a glass of wine. ;-) > > with love, > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2001 Report Share Posted February 9, 2001 Which book do you mean? Not SWOE? Pirjo > Wow. > > I just got my book today, and I've already read half of it. My head feels > like there's a clamp on it, and I'm spinning just a little. Now I see > exactly what my mother is. She's a Witch/Queen. I'm a little confused > about the Madeo (sp?) queen? Are they only murderous types or is it > sufficient to throw the child out of the house? I remember once my grades > weren't good enough, and my parents moved me out to my grandmother's house > immediately. > > Thank God for that. I'm beginning to think that the love and validation I > got from my grandparents and family *at that time* saved me. I was on a > road to nowhere, and my family supported me and loved me with all their > heart. God help me. Let me try to remember this during their conflicts and > confusion with our present crisis. (remember, they now feel that I'm an > adult, and I should be able to work with my parents. I've cut all contact > with them and have no plans on going back.) > > The hatred. The anger. Even the guilt about having cut them off and having > to set boundaries with my family regarding THAT. Everything in this book. > Just when you think you've got things figured out, there's another issue > that needs to be addressed. Does this ever end?? Are we also succumbing to > a life-time diagnosis of being a BPD's non-child? Will we ever be able to > think and feel on our own, with no shame or guilt over-riding our decisions? > Am I ever going to be able to finally be OK with never seeing my mom > again? > > Btw, my mother also has fibromyalgia, and she takes 84 pills a day. My > hubby (in med school) has told me about the psychosomatic stuff for years > now. It's nice to have that *validated* in a book too. All the things you > wish you never knew..just like the books says. > > You all have a good day. I think I'm going to have a glass of wine. ;-) > > with love, > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2001 Report Share Posted February 9, 2001 Which book do you mean? Not SWOE? Pirjo > Wow. > > I just got my book today, and I've already read half of it. My head feels > like there's a clamp on it, and I'm spinning just a little. Now I see > exactly what my mother is. She's a Witch/Queen. I'm a little confused > about the Madeo (sp?) queen? Are they only murderous types or is it > sufficient to throw the child out of the house? I remember once my grades > weren't good enough, and my parents moved me out to my grandmother's house > immediately. > > Thank God for that. I'm beginning to think that the love and validation I > got from my grandparents and family *at that time* saved me. I was on a > road to nowhere, and my family supported me and loved me with all their > heart. God help me. Let me try to remember this during their conflicts and > confusion with our present crisis. (remember, they now feel that I'm an > adult, and I should be able to work with my parents. I've cut all contact > with them and have no plans on going back.) > > The hatred. The anger. Even the guilt about having cut them off and having > to set boundaries with my family regarding THAT. Everything in this book. > Just when you think you've got things figured out, there's another issue > that needs to be addressed. Does this ever end?? Are we also succumbing to > a life-time diagnosis of being a BPD's non-child? Will we ever be able to > think and feel on our own, with no shame or guilt over-riding our decisions? > Am I ever going to be able to finally be OK with never seeing my mom > again? > > Btw, my mother also has fibromyalgia, and she takes 84 pills a day. My > hubby (in med school) has told me about the psychosomatic stuff for years > now. It's nice to have that *validated* in a book too. All the things you > wish you never knew..just like the books says. > > You all have a good day. I think I'm going to have a glass of wine. ;-) > > with love, > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2001 Report Share Posted February 10, 2001 << I just got my book today, and I've already read half of it. My head feels like there's a clamp on it, and I'm spinning just a little. Now I see exactly what my mother is. She's a Witch/Queen. >> Aha, and joins the growing group of us KOs who had a nada like mine. << I'm a little confused about the Madeo (sp?) queen? Are they only murderous types or is it sufficient to throw the child out of the house? >> Lawson wrote (on page 126): " The Medean Mother is the most pathological type of borderline Witch. Although she can emerge from any one of the other three types of borderline mothers, most Witches are not Medean Mothers. Medean Mothers are extremely rare. " Lawson then writes about and Diane Downs who murdered their children. And Lawson summarizes (on page 129), " The Medean Mother may sacrifice her children, but never, ever her pride. " Lawson wrote in Chapter 6, the Witch mother is: Sadistically controlling and punitive with her children Possesses annihilatory rage Organizes a campaign of denigration Stirs up conflict and controversy in groups Hostility masks her fear Destroys valued objects or is intentionally withholding Possesses the conviction of being evil Has a fear of entrapment Has a poor prognosis for treatment The Witch's motto is " Life is war " and her messages to her children are: " I could kill you " " You'll be sorry " " You won't get away with this " " You deserve to suffer " " I'd be better off without you " " You'll never escape my control " " It's my right as your parent to control you " " I'm going to make you pay " And Lawson writes (on page 149): " The Witch's children survive their childhood by learning not to feel, cry, laugh, smile, or frown in their mother's presence. Adult children raised by Witch mothers survived an emotional hell. Without intervention, young children may not survive. " Yup! BTDT and survived to tell about it. << I remember once my grades weren't good enough, and my parents moved me out to my grandmother's house immediately. Thank God for that. I'm beginning to think that the love and validation I got from my grandparents and family *at that time* saved me. >> Yes, someone has to give a damn. With me it was our dogs. They gave me unconditional love. << The hatred. The anger. Even the guilt about having cut them off and having to set boundaries with my family regarding THAT. Everything in this book. Just when you think you've got things figured out, there's another issue that needs to be addressed. Does this ever end?? >> Yes. You're on the path. Just keep your eyes focused on the light at the end of the tunnel. << Are we also succumbing to a life-time diagnosis of being a BPD's non-child? >> We're wounded, and to the core, but those wounds eventually stop bleeding. And the pain from the FOG goes away, but there's lots of scar tissue. << Will we ever be able to think and feel on our own, with no shame or guilt over-riding our decisions? >> There was lots of stuff to be worked through on the way, and there's no one answer that fits all, but I'm there. It took awhile. I just didn't know where the path was leading. << Am I ever going to be able to finally be OK with never seeing my mom again? >> I can't answer that question. My nada lived on in my head for 12 years after her death but I eventually found her and kicked her arse out!! That was 3 years ago. But I still had lots of work to do before I found my own voice. There was no one ahead of me on the path. << Btw, my mother also has fibromyalgia, and she takes 84 pills a day. My hubby (in med school) has told me about the psychosomatic stuff for years now. It's nice to have that *validated* in a book too. >> I received my MA degree in psychology in '64 and there was no BPD in the DSM until 1980. Over the years I've been fascinated with the stuff that evolved into what is now known as psychoneuroimmunology (PNI) with its emphasis on the mind-body relationship. I was hypervigilant and had PTSD and needed to find answers. Its stressful for our nadas and fadas to have BPD, and its stressful for us to be their children. My hypervigilance and PTSD resolved spontaneously two years ago. And I haven't taken Inderol for the tachycardias caused by my body's fight-flight reactions, for years. The tachycardias kept me from doing lots of stuff that I would have loved to do. Other KOs suffer from panic attacks, & etc. << All the things you wish you never knew..just like the book says. >> But knowing this stuff provides the key to opening the door and being released from our nada's chains. Its like that wise old sage said, " Knowledge IS power " . << You all have a good day. I think I'm going to have a glass of wine. ;-) with love, >> A few years back I was putting away a 5th of Jack s every weekend, but now I don't drink. How does that little ditty go: I love coffee, I love tea, I love my Self and My Self loves me. Life is gooooooooooood. Hugs, Edith _______________________________ The book, Understanding The Borderline Mother, can be ordered through your local bookstore or you can order it through http://www.Amazon.com with a credit card. When there, press the " book " button and type in the title or author. Below is a repost of Randi's post with book information. << Subj: [WelcomeToOzegroups] New book about BPD moms Date: 1/31/01 1:34:12 PM Pacific Standard Time From: RandiBPD@... To: WelcomeToOzegroups, WTOatworkegroups, WTOChat , WTOChristianegroups, WTODivorcingegroups, WTOGLBTegroups, wtomenonlyegroups, wtonon-onlyegroups, WTOparentingegroups, WTOStayingegroups, wtosiblingegroups This publisher (Aronson) is generally for practitioners but this looks like a consumer book. Some adult kids from our lists will also be reviewing the book and we'll be sending those to the groups. Note: There are some used copies for sale ($25) if you go to Amazon.com. Understanding the Borderline Mother : Helping Her Children Transcend the Intense, Unpredictable, and Volatile Relationship by Ann Lawson PhD List Price: $45.00 Amazon Price: $36.00 You Save: $9.00 (20%) Availability: On Order; usually ships within 1-2 weeks. Hardcover - 352 pages (November 2000) Aronson; ISBN: 0765702886 Dimensions (in inches): 1.24 x 9.28 x 6.38 Book Description The first love in our lives is our mother. Recognizing her face, her voice, the meaning of her moods, and her facial expressions is crucial to survival. Dr. Ann Lawson vividly describes how mothers who suffer from borderline personality disorder produce children who may flounder in life even as adults, futilely struggling to reach the safety of a parental harbor, unable to recognize that their borderline parent lacks a pier, or even a discernible shore. Four character profiles describe different symptom clusters that include the waif mother, the hermit mother, the queen mother, and the witch. Children of borderlines are at risk for developing this complex and devastating personality disorder themselves. Dr. Lawson's recommendations for prevention include empathic understanding of the borderline mother and early intervention with her children to ground them in reality and counteract the often dangerous effects of living with a " make-believe " mother. Some readers may recognize their mothers as well as themselves in this book. They will also find specific suggestions for creating healthier relationships. Addressing the adult children of borderlines and the therapists who work with them, Dr. Lawson shows how to care for the waif without rescuing her, to attend to the hermit without feeding her fear, to love the queen without becoming her subject, and to live with the witch without becoming >From the Back Cover " Childhood lived with a borderline mother results in an unspeakable tragedy, few of the child's developmental needs are met because the mother cannot be a parent. Consequently, the child is programmed for a lifelong struggle against failure. For over twenty years, people have shared their own agonizing stories with me, looking to my journey for a sense of hope. The compassionate understanding and professional assistance in this book are a road map out of failure. " - Crawford, M.A.... Two reader's reviews posted at Amazon.com follow: Excellent Introductary Text, January 24, 2001 Reviewer: A reader from New York, NY USA This author writes so concisely and clearly about this subject that novices and seasoned mental health professionals will carry away a new or better understanding of the illness. An alternate title might even be " Borderline Personality Disorder for Dummies. " The author identifies four separate composites or profiles for the different kinds of borderline mothers; thereby being especially useful in exploding the myth that all borderlines act and sound alike. Many persons suffering from this ailment go undiagnosed because they do not threaten suicide, or engage in otherwise self-destructive behavior. Moreover, although the author deals only with the female parent, as the adult child of a borderline father I felt it was helpful to those struggling in that same situation. The section devoted to advice in dealing with a borderline parent apply to those of us with borderline fathers. A Welcome Find, December 16, 2000 Reviewer: corky@... Tucson, AZ USA This book is a lifeline to sanity for any child of a mother who suffers from borderline personality disorder. The first chapters dissect this complex disease more thoroughly than I've read in any other book, and the final section explains how to cope with the volatile relationships that form between mother and child. Every page contains a wealth of information that is simultaneously therapeutic and proactive. The validation that came with being able to relate to the experiences of other children living with this was priceless (as well as being long overdue). I have read dozens of books about borderline personality disorder, but none (until now) addressed the consequences the disease has on children of mothers suffering from the disorder. The book seems to focus on the relationships daughters have with their borderline mothers, but does deal with the impact it has on sons, as well. Randi Kreger List owner, Welcome To Oz Lists Coauthor, Stop Walking on Eggshells Love and Loathing, Hope for Parents www.BPDCentral.com >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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