Guest guest Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 In a message dated 1/6/2005 3:49:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, danacar@... writes: had absolutely NO desire to work as hard as I was working for Ava to be ok. However, I'm not a jerk either so I was not willing to watch her suffer becuase I was too self absorbed etc. to help her. I told him that I didn't want to hear any " blame the mother " crap and that if he did his job - make her less dependant on me - I would be glad to " retire " and sit by the pool....if I had a pool. Thanks for my laugh of the day! I, too, am lazy by nature. May I say I worked for year and years at a very stressful job, that could be 16 hours a day! When it is suggested I get a job, or an Masters or anything..I say....why would I want to do that? Out there, running around, heart pounding, meeting deadlines. Of course there is the money. The only reason. I don't need it for my ego. So, save a chair by your pool for me! We will meet as soon as we get a handle on this dreadful OCD. It seems to occupy me 24/7. Just how to handle it, finding right meds, right doctor, seeing a ray of light. That's enough work for me, and it is work I don't mind doing, doing it out of pure love and devotion. I don't want to hear 'blame the mother' either. And believe me, I have heard it...not from the doctor, but from just about everybody else. No wonder I only talk now to my true friends who are not judging me. I am not sure my son is with the right doctor, actually, I think the doctor is enabling him more than I am. Well, rambling, sorry, but today many issues close to me have been presented. Thanks all! Judith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 In a message dated 1/6/2005 3:49:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, danacar@... writes: had absolutely NO desire to work as hard as I was working for Ava to be ok. However, I'm not a jerk either so I was not willing to watch her suffer becuase I was too self absorbed etc. to help her. I told him that I didn't want to hear any " blame the mother " crap and that if he did his job - make her less dependant on me - I would be glad to " retire " and sit by the pool....if I had a pool. Thanks for my laugh of the day! I, too, am lazy by nature. May I say I worked for year and years at a very stressful job, that could be 16 hours a day! When it is suggested I get a job, or an Masters or anything..I say....why would I want to do that? Out there, running around, heart pounding, meeting deadlines. Of course there is the money. The only reason. I don't need it for my ego. So, save a chair by your pool for me! We will meet as soon as we get a handle on this dreadful OCD. It seems to occupy me 24/7. Just how to handle it, finding right meds, right doctor, seeing a ray of light. That's enough work for me, and it is work I don't mind doing, doing it out of pure love and devotion. I don't want to hear 'blame the mother' either. And believe me, I have heard it...not from the doctor, but from just about everybody else. No wonder I only talk now to my true friends who are not judging me. I am not sure my son is with the right doctor, actually, I think the doctor is enabling him more than I am. Well, rambling, sorry, but today many issues close to me have been presented. Thanks all! Judith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 LOL " if I had a pool " sorry, was a long emotional day I am peeing myself laughing! " Enabling " > > How easy it is to acuse us of this! Let then try to cope with all the > responsibilities of daily life and a child with OCD at the same time. > Even the big time experts don't totally get how difficult it is. When > my daughter was 9 and was in the process of being diagnosed I was > furious when Dr. March (yes, THE Dr. March) suggested that I was working > harder than necessary. I told him that I am by nature, a lazy person > with little ambition and I had absolutely NO desire to work as hard as I > was working for Ava to be ok. However, I'm not a jerk either so I was > not willing to watch her suffer becuase I was too self absorbed etc. to > help her. I told him that I didn't want to hear any " blame the mother " > crap and that if he did his job - make her less dependant on me - I > would be glad to " retire " and sit by the pool....if I had a pool. > > He got off his high horse, Ava got some help, I got some help learning > about OCD and it's treatment. > > > > > Our list archives, bookmarks, files, and chat feature may be accessed at: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group// . > Our list advisors are Gail B. , Ed.D., Tamar Chansky, Ph.D.( http://www.worrywisekids.org ), Dan Geller, M.D.,Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., ( http://www.lighthouse-press.com ). Our list moderators are Birkhan, Castle, Fowler, Kathy Hammes, Joye, Kathy Mac, Gail Pesses, and Kathy . Subscription issues or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at louisharkins@... , louisharkins@... , louisharkins@... .. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 LOL " if I had a pool " sorry, was a long emotional day I am peeing myself laughing! " Enabling " > > How easy it is to acuse us of this! Let then try to cope with all the > responsibilities of daily life and a child with OCD at the same time. > Even the big time experts don't totally get how difficult it is. When > my daughter was 9 and was in the process of being diagnosed I was > furious when Dr. March (yes, THE Dr. March) suggested that I was working > harder than necessary. I told him that I am by nature, a lazy person > with little ambition and I had absolutely NO desire to work as hard as I > was working for Ava to be ok. However, I'm not a jerk either so I was > not willing to watch her suffer becuase I was too self absorbed etc. to > help her. I told him that I didn't want to hear any " blame the mother " > crap and that if he did his job - make her less dependant on me - I > would be glad to " retire " and sit by the pool....if I had a pool. > > He got off his high horse, Ava got some help, I got some help learning > about OCD and it's treatment. > > > > > Our list archives, bookmarks, files, and chat feature may be accessed at: http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group// . > Our list advisors are Gail B. , Ed.D., Tamar Chansky, Ph.D.( http://www.worrywisekids.org ), Dan Geller, M.D.,Aureen Pinto Wagner, Ph.D., ( http://www.lighthouse-press.com ). Our list moderators are Birkhan, Castle, Fowler, Kathy Hammes, Joye, Kathy Mac, Gail Pesses, and Kathy . Subscription issues or suggestions may be addressed to Louis Harkins, list owner, at louisharkins@... , louisharkins@... , louisharkins@... .. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Hi Judith- Enabling is such a hard issue. I agree that early on in 'crisis' mode we just need to get our kids through the day. I also believe that it is necessary for us to help our kids understand that OCD's messages are *not* true and they don't need to be prisoner to OCD's lies. Something that worked in our family early on was to discuss that we would overlook the most stressful fears of OCD (e.g. not being able to ride the bus to school because of contamination, hence a daily ride to school) while working on less stressful issues. Anne was allowed to choose which less stressful issue she worked on. Even in working on a lower heirarchy fear, she was sometimes not able to totally *resist* the ritual, but she could *change the message* of OCD so that *SHE* was in charge of what she did. As an example, bathing nightly was 'necessary'. Anne would have loved to strip and jump in the tub the minute she came home from school. While she still bathed daily, she was able to take control enough to delay the bath usually until bedtime. The act of delaying was praised...and some days it was just *thinking* about delaying the bath on particularly hard days hard days that was praised. Whatever we could do to point out that *she* could take charge, and that she *didn't* get sick if she didn't do EXACTLY what OCD wanted her to do seemed to help in the long run. Just some thoughts for you. I still struggle with this...I still catch myself opening doors, putting money in her pocket so she doesn't have to touch it, etc., but I try not to.... Best wishes as you continue in your journey of finding the right therapy for your son. Keep posting. Blessings- (Ohio) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Hi Judith- Enabling is such a hard issue. I agree that early on in 'crisis' mode we just need to get our kids through the day. I also believe that it is necessary for us to help our kids understand that OCD's messages are *not* true and they don't need to be prisoner to OCD's lies. Something that worked in our family early on was to discuss that we would overlook the most stressful fears of OCD (e.g. not being able to ride the bus to school because of contamination, hence a daily ride to school) while working on less stressful issues. Anne was allowed to choose which less stressful issue she worked on. Even in working on a lower heirarchy fear, she was sometimes not able to totally *resist* the ritual, but she could *change the message* of OCD so that *SHE* was in charge of what she did. As an example, bathing nightly was 'necessary'. Anne would have loved to strip and jump in the tub the minute she came home from school. While she still bathed daily, she was able to take control enough to delay the bath usually until bedtime. The act of delaying was praised...and some days it was just *thinking* about delaying the bath on particularly hard days hard days that was praised. Whatever we could do to point out that *she* could take charge, and that she *didn't* get sick if she didn't do EXACTLY what OCD wanted her to do seemed to help in the long run. Just some thoughts for you. I still struggle with this...I still catch myself opening doors, putting money in her pocket so she doesn't have to touch it, etc., but I try not to.... Best wishes as you continue in your journey of finding the right therapy for your son. Keep posting. Blessings- (Ohio) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 Hi Judith- Enabling is such a hard issue. I agree that early on in 'crisis' mode we just need to get our kids through the day. I also believe that it is necessary for us to help our kids understand that OCD's messages are *not* true and they don't need to be prisoner to OCD's lies. Something that worked in our family early on was to discuss that we would overlook the most stressful fears of OCD (e.g. not being able to ride the bus to school because of contamination, hence a daily ride to school) while working on less stressful issues. Anne was allowed to choose which less stressful issue she worked on. Even in working on a lower heirarchy fear, she was sometimes not able to totally *resist* the ritual, but she could *change the message* of OCD so that *SHE* was in charge of what she did. As an example, bathing nightly was 'necessary'. Anne would have loved to strip and jump in the tub the minute she came home from school. While she still bathed daily, she was able to take control enough to delay the bath usually until bedtime. The act of delaying was praised...and some days it was just *thinking* about delaying the bath on particularly hard days hard days that was praised. Whatever we could do to point out that *she* could take charge, and that she *didn't* get sick if she didn't do EXACTLY what OCD wanted her to do seemed to help in the long run. Just some thoughts for you. I still struggle with this...I still catch myself opening doors, putting money in her pocket so she doesn't have to touch it, etc., but I try not to.... Best wishes as you continue in your journey of finding the right therapy for your son. Keep posting. Blessings- (Ohio) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 When I took my son to see a therapist for the first time, I was at the end of my rope. I said, " I have lots of experience with 12 step groups (ACOA) and I know that the big 'no-no' for ANY condition (especially alcoholics or addicts) is to ENABLE them. However, my child is SICK with OCD - he's not an addict or an alcoholic. Yet, I think I may be 'enabling' his condition. Please help me sort this out. How much " help " is really no help at all? Is it really " enabling " when a CHILD, not an adult, is suffering with a brain disorder? " She (the therapist) smiled at me and said that I just cut at least 10 visits off the treatment by knowing what enabling is -because so many parents have no idea what it means or have the awareness that they're doing just that - enabling. It's not a bad word to me. If you think about it, the schools are the biggest enablers of all!! They give the kids all this help and it just sets them up to fail when the help is removed. So, we parents are stuck with keeping them in special ed classes all through middle and high school - and even into college! I do wonder if all this help keeps them " sick " with OCD! We're gradually decreasing the assistance gets in school. Last year, the big 4 classes were all special ed classes (eng., math, science, social studies). This year, I cut spec. ed in half and he's in regular English and reg. Science classes. The grades aren't so great in these two regular classes, but I'm not a perfectionist about my kids' grades. If he makes a " C " in these classes, I'm overjoyed! The point is, I think as they get older, it IS important to start " letting go " and treating them like " normal " kids (depending on the severity of the condition, of course) It's amazing how much better they get when you see them and TREAT them as " normal kids " rather than " sick kids. " In short, I think it's important to help and support the kids when they're going through the toughest times with their OCD. But, it's also important to allow them the dignity to be responsible for their own condition, too. The goal is for the kids to grow up, go to college, move out and be a responsible/contributing member of society. If we are ALWAYS supporting them with too much " help " (enabling), then they'll never take responsibility for their own problems. They'll always be looking for someone to rescue them/bail them out/and enable them. A classic example is Monk's assistant, Sherona (the big enabler/mother figure in the show) who runs around behind him with anti-bacterial wipes and bails him out of all of his problems. Granted, she's been HIRED to do this job and she gets paid to do it, but is all the help really helping him get a handle on his condition? Nope. And, that's Hollywood for ya. They *need* Monk to stay sick so that the show (and his OCD) will go on and on.... If Sherona stopped enabling him, he'd get better ....and there'd be no show!! BTW, our pool is a community pool. I don't have my own pool, unfortunately! used to be a FISH in the water and loved to swim since the day he was born. And, it was good exercise for him too - keeping those happy endorphines pumping in his brain. But, that horrible summer when he was 10yo, OCD completely stole that away from him by making him believe that the pool is contaminated with germs and the flesh eating poison -chlorine!!! He also became somewhat of a recluse by refusing to play outside that year. His brothers made fun of him by calling him names " You're a big BABY and a sissy.. " etc. I do believe that *some* of my unintentional enabling of his condition helped OCD get stronger that year.. Our therapist helped me pull out of all the enabling I was doing with his rituals so that he could feel the weight of his own condition, and work on eliminating it. I'm a STRONG and Independent person, and I've noticed that the more that I was around helping my son, supporting him, thinking for him, etc, he didn't have to do any work at all. Ummm, needless to say, THAT changed and I no longer take responsibility for OCD, feel any guilt, or enable his condition. Joni Mom to , 13 with " OK disorder " - Outstanding Kid with a tiny bit of ocd+ts > How easy it is to acuse us of this! Let then try to cope with all the > responsibilities of daily life and a child with OCD at the same time. > Even the big time experts don't totally get how difficult it is. When > my daughter was 9 and was in the process of being diagnosed I was > furious when Dr. March (yes, THE Dr. March) suggested that I was working > harder than necessary. I told him that I am by nature, a lazy person > with little ambition and I had absolutely NO desire to work as hard as I > was working for Ava to be ok. However, I'm not a jerk either so I was > not willing to watch her suffer becuase I was too self absorbed etc. to > help her. I told him that I didn't want to hear any " blame the mother " > crap and that if he did his job - make her less dependant on me - I > would be glad to " retire " and sit by the pool....if I had a pool. > > He got off his high horse, Ava got some help, I got some help learning > about OCD and it's treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 When I took my son to see a therapist for the first time, I was at the end of my rope. I said, " I have lots of experience with 12 step groups (ACOA) and I know that the big 'no-no' for ANY condition (especially alcoholics or addicts) is to ENABLE them. However, my child is SICK with OCD - he's not an addict or an alcoholic. Yet, I think I may be 'enabling' his condition. Please help me sort this out. How much " help " is really no help at all? Is it really " enabling " when a CHILD, not an adult, is suffering with a brain disorder? " She (the therapist) smiled at me and said that I just cut at least 10 visits off the treatment by knowing what enabling is -because so many parents have no idea what it means or have the awareness that they're doing just that - enabling. It's not a bad word to me. If you think about it, the schools are the biggest enablers of all!! They give the kids all this help and it just sets them up to fail when the help is removed. So, we parents are stuck with keeping them in special ed classes all through middle and high school - and even into college! I do wonder if all this help keeps them " sick " with OCD! We're gradually decreasing the assistance gets in school. Last year, the big 4 classes were all special ed classes (eng., math, science, social studies). This year, I cut spec. ed in half and he's in regular English and reg. Science classes. The grades aren't so great in these two regular classes, but I'm not a perfectionist about my kids' grades. If he makes a " C " in these classes, I'm overjoyed! The point is, I think as they get older, it IS important to start " letting go " and treating them like " normal " kids (depending on the severity of the condition, of course) It's amazing how much better they get when you see them and TREAT them as " normal kids " rather than " sick kids. " In short, I think it's important to help and support the kids when they're going through the toughest times with their OCD. But, it's also important to allow them the dignity to be responsible for their own condition, too. The goal is for the kids to grow up, go to college, move out and be a responsible/contributing member of society. If we are ALWAYS supporting them with too much " help " (enabling), then they'll never take responsibility for their own problems. They'll always be looking for someone to rescue them/bail them out/and enable them. A classic example is Monk's assistant, Sherona (the big enabler/mother figure in the show) who runs around behind him with anti-bacterial wipes and bails him out of all of his problems. Granted, she's been HIRED to do this job and she gets paid to do it, but is all the help really helping him get a handle on his condition? Nope. And, that's Hollywood for ya. They *need* Monk to stay sick so that the show (and his OCD) will go on and on.... If Sherona stopped enabling him, he'd get better ....and there'd be no show!! BTW, our pool is a community pool. I don't have my own pool, unfortunately! used to be a FISH in the water and loved to swim since the day he was born. And, it was good exercise for him too - keeping those happy endorphines pumping in his brain. But, that horrible summer when he was 10yo, OCD completely stole that away from him by making him believe that the pool is contaminated with germs and the flesh eating poison -chlorine!!! He also became somewhat of a recluse by refusing to play outside that year. His brothers made fun of him by calling him names " You're a big BABY and a sissy.. " etc. I do believe that *some* of my unintentional enabling of his condition helped OCD get stronger that year.. Our therapist helped me pull out of all the enabling I was doing with his rituals so that he could feel the weight of his own condition, and work on eliminating it. I'm a STRONG and Independent person, and I've noticed that the more that I was around helping my son, supporting him, thinking for him, etc, he didn't have to do any work at all. Ummm, needless to say, THAT changed and I no longer take responsibility for OCD, feel any guilt, or enable his condition. Joni Mom to , 13 with " OK disorder " - Outstanding Kid with a tiny bit of ocd+ts > How easy it is to acuse us of this! Let then try to cope with all the > responsibilities of daily life and a child with OCD at the same time. > Even the big time experts don't totally get how difficult it is. When > my daughter was 9 and was in the process of being diagnosed I was > furious when Dr. March (yes, THE Dr. March) suggested that I was working > harder than necessary. I told him that I am by nature, a lazy person > with little ambition and I had absolutely NO desire to work as hard as I > was working for Ava to be ok. However, I'm not a jerk either so I was > not willing to watch her suffer becuase I was too self absorbed etc. to > help her. I told him that I didn't want to hear any " blame the mother " > crap and that if he did his job - make her less dependant on me - I > would be glad to " retire " and sit by the pool....if I had a pool. > > He got off his high horse, Ava got some help, I got some help learning > about OCD and it's treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2005 Report Share Posted January 7, 2005 In a message dated 1/7/2005 5:00:25 PM Pacific Standard Time, danacar@... writes: My response to her need kept her well enough until she could get the help she needed for her OCD. If I hadn't been willing to go the distance with her, to be there for her when her internal life was so scary and stressful, I'd hate to think how emotionally scarred she might have been. I appreciate your thoughts! Judith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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