Guest guest Posted November 21, 2007 Report Share Posted November 21, 2007 I was wondering if there is any literature discussing what the correlations might be of brain MRIs (particularly " fMRI " s) and EEG. There seems to be a whole world of psychotherapists, psychoanalysts, etc., who are interested in research that correlates MRIs with attachment disorders, depression, etc. The idea is to verify " mental " concepts by looking at how brains develop differently in people who have suffered e.g. traumata, poor attachments, etc., in their early years. HOWEVER --- it also appears that most of these (predominantly) clinicians have never heard of neurofeedback! I was wondering if there is any research combining any or all of these fields -- it seems to have interesting implications for marketing a neurofeedback practice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Hi Mihail, If I were going to try to answer your question, the first thing I'd be thinking about is: What brain functions are correlated with the different subtests? You could use a book such as Sattler's ASSESSMENT OF CHILDREN; WISC-IV and WPPSI supplement (and there are others like this, too) to see what the test-makers actually had in mind when they designed the subtests. But it's important to remember that MANY functions are being measured by EVERY subtest: First of all, for aLL the subtests, there is attention and concentration. There is also memory. (Nobody's " starting from scratch " when they engage in intellectual activity. They are matching what they hear/see with what they have heard/seen before.) There is organization, for example, sequencing ability. That is why, no matter how people do on this or that subtest, a psychologist is always looking at these " Executive Functions " as well. (and it's why, when somebody has an attention deficit, they may do poorly on all kinds of things (and Life) even if they have enormous strengths in one or more areas.) Also--- all the verbal subtests require auditory perception and language perception. All the performance subtests are going to involve visual perception and many of those require visual-motor coordination (the blocks, the puzzles, Coding, etc.), so now you're talking about the motor cortex as well. (And let's not forget that ALL the subtests require the ability to understand and interpret the instructions that the examiner is saying!) If you look at a book like Sattler's, you'll see lists of what each subtest is (possibly) testing, and the lists are rather long. And then, as far as brain/EEG goes, there are not just those functions, but you also have to think about how those functions work TOGETHER. This is where issues like symmetry and coherence come in. And then there are Emotional factors being assessed as well. This is why any test report is going to say something about anxiety and tension during the test-taking. And we all know that anxiety plays a major role in attention and working memory (for some subtests, like Digit Span, more than others). This is why we are taught in neurofeedback to " train down " the high beta frequencies that are correlated with anxiety and how important that is in attention deficits. SO -- I'm sure you can narrow this down more, but I'm just saying that the WISC is testing many intellectual functions PLUS some social/emotional ones. This is why there is a whole literature on the clinical interpretation of the WISC as well as what the WISC measures re: " pure " intellect. Now - correlating all of this with the brain structures is the second stage! And then you're up to exploring which EEG sites might be measuring the activity of the various structures/areas of the brain --- In sum...that was an interesting question. Very eager to hear how Pete approaches it! Happy Thankgiving! Liz > > > > > I was wondering if there is any literature discussing what the > > > correlations might be of brain MRIs (particularly " fMRI " s) and EEG. > > > > > > There seems to be a whole world of psychotherapists, psychoanalysts, > > > etc., who are interested in research that correlates MRIs with > > > attachment disorders, depression, etc. The idea is to verify " mental " > > > concepts by looking at how brains develop differently in people who > > > have suffered e.g. traumata, poor attachments, etc., in their > early years. > > > > > > HOWEVER --- it also appears that most of these (predominantly) > > > clinicians have never heard of neurofeedback! > > > > > > I was wondering if there is any research combining any or all of these > > > fields -- it seems to have interesting implications for marketing a > > > neurofeedback practice! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Van Deusen > > pvdtlc@ > > http://www.brain-trainer.com > > 305/433-3160 > > The Learning Curve, Inc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Van Deusen > pvdtlc@... > http://www.brain-trainer.com > 305/433-3160 > The Learning Curve, Inc. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Hi Mihail, If I were going to try to answer your question, the first thing I'd be thinking about is: What brain functions are correlated with the different subtests? You could use a book such as Sattler's ASSESSMENT OF CHILDREN; WISC-IV and WPPSI supplement (and there are others like this, too) to see what the test-makers actually had in mind when they designed the subtests. But it's important to remember that MANY functions are being measured by EVERY subtest: First of all, for aLL the subtests, there is attention and concentration. There is also memory. (Nobody's " starting from scratch " when they engage in intellectual activity. They are matching what they hear/see with what they have heard/seen before.) There is organization, for example, sequencing ability. That is why, no matter how people do on this or that subtest, a psychologist is always looking at these " Executive Functions " as well. (and it's why, when somebody has an attention deficit, they may do poorly on all kinds of things (and Life) even if they have enormous strengths in one or more areas.) Also--- all the verbal subtests require auditory perception and language perception. All the performance subtests are going to involve visual perception and many of those require visual-motor coordination (the blocks, the puzzles, Coding, etc.), so now you're talking about the motor cortex as well. (And let's not forget that ALL the subtests require the ability to understand and interpret the instructions that the examiner is saying!) If you look at a book like Sattler's, you'll see lists of what each subtest is (possibly) testing, and the lists are rather long. And then, as far as brain/EEG goes, there are not just those functions, but you also have to think about how those functions work TOGETHER. This is where issues like symmetry and coherence come in. And then there are Emotional factors being assessed as well. This is why any test report is going to say something about anxiety and tension during the test-taking. And we all know that anxiety plays a major role in attention and working memory (for some subtests, like Digit Span, more than others). This is why we are taught in neurofeedback to " train down " the high beta frequencies that are correlated with anxiety and how important that is in attention deficits. SO -- I'm sure you can narrow this down more, but I'm just saying that the WISC is testing many intellectual functions PLUS some social/emotional ones. This is why there is a whole literature on the clinical interpretation of the WISC as well as what the WISC measures re: " pure " intellect. Now - correlating all of this with the brain structures is the second stage! And then you're up to exploring which EEG sites might be measuring the activity of the various structures/areas of the brain --- In sum...that was an interesting question. Very eager to hear how Pete approaches it! Happy Thankgiving! Liz > > > > > I was wondering if there is any literature discussing what the > > > correlations might be of brain MRIs (particularly " fMRI " s) and EEG. > > > > > > There seems to be a whole world of psychotherapists, psychoanalysts, > > > etc., who are interested in research that correlates MRIs with > > > attachment disorders, depression, etc. The idea is to verify " mental " > > > concepts by looking at how brains develop differently in people who > > > have suffered e.g. traumata, poor attachments, etc., in their > early years. > > > > > > HOWEVER --- it also appears that most of these (predominantly) > > > clinicians have never heard of neurofeedback! > > > > > > I was wondering if there is any research combining any or all of these > > > fields -- it seems to have interesting implications for marketing a > > > neurofeedback practice! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Van Deusen > > pvdtlc@ > > http://www.brain-trainer.com > > 305/433-3160 > > The Learning Curve, Inc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Van Deusen > pvdtlc@... > http://www.brain-trainer.com > 305/433-3160 > The Learning Curve, Inc. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 22, 2007 Report Share Posted November 22, 2007 Hi Mihail, If I were going to try to answer your question, the first thing I'd be thinking about is: What brain functions are correlated with the different subtests? You could use a book such as Sattler's ASSESSMENT OF CHILDREN; WISC-IV and WPPSI supplement (and there are others like this, too) to see what the test-makers actually had in mind when they designed the subtests. But it's important to remember that MANY functions are being measured by EVERY subtest: First of all, for aLL the subtests, there is attention and concentration. There is also memory. (Nobody's " starting from scratch " when they engage in intellectual activity. They are matching what they hear/see with what they have heard/seen before.) There is organization, for example, sequencing ability. That is why, no matter how people do on this or that subtest, a psychologist is always looking at these " Executive Functions " as well. (and it's why, when somebody has an attention deficit, they may do poorly on all kinds of things (and Life) even if they have enormous strengths in one or more areas.) Also--- all the verbal subtests require auditory perception and language perception. All the performance subtests are going to involve visual perception and many of those require visual-motor coordination (the blocks, the puzzles, Coding, etc.), so now you're talking about the motor cortex as well. (And let's not forget that ALL the subtests require the ability to understand and interpret the instructions that the examiner is saying!) If you look at a book like Sattler's, you'll see lists of what each subtest is (possibly) testing, and the lists are rather long. And then, as far as brain/EEG goes, there are not just those functions, but you also have to think about how those functions work TOGETHER. This is where issues like symmetry and coherence come in. And then there are Emotional factors being assessed as well. This is why any test report is going to say something about anxiety and tension during the test-taking. And we all know that anxiety plays a major role in attention and working memory (for some subtests, like Digit Span, more than others). This is why we are taught in neurofeedback to " train down " the high beta frequencies that are correlated with anxiety and how important that is in attention deficits. SO -- I'm sure you can narrow this down more, but I'm just saying that the WISC is testing many intellectual functions PLUS some social/emotional ones. This is why there is a whole literature on the clinical interpretation of the WISC as well as what the WISC measures re: " pure " intellect. Now - correlating all of this with the brain structures is the second stage! And then you're up to exploring which EEG sites might be measuring the activity of the various structures/areas of the brain --- In sum...that was an interesting question. Very eager to hear how Pete approaches it! Happy Thankgiving! Liz > > > > > I was wondering if there is any literature discussing what the > > > correlations might be of brain MRIs (particularly " fMRI " s) and EEG. > > > > > > There seems to be a whole world of psychotherapists, psychoanalysts, > > > etc., who are interested in research that correlates MRIs with > > > attachment disorders, depression, etc. The idea is to verify " mental " > > > concepts by looking at how brains develop differently in people who > > > have suffered e.g. traumata, poor attachments, etc., in their > early years. > > > > > > HOWEVER --- it also appears that most of these (predominantly) > > > clinicians have never heard of neurofeedback! > > > > > > I was wondering if there is any research combining any or all of these > > > fields -- it seems to have interesting implications for marketing a > > > neurofeedback practice! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Van Deusen > > pvdtlc@ > > http://www.brain-trainer.com > > 305/433-3160 > > The Learning Curve, Inc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Van Deusen > pvdtlc@... > http://www.brain-trainer.com > 305/433-3160 > The Learning Curve, Inc. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Tryit now. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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